DM800HD discussion, Images, Plugins , EPG - No Illegal chat!

Ronan|Raven

So then there seems to be a lot more owners of the 800 series Dreambox on these forums so I thought maybe a thread where we can discuss our favourite plugins and images and maybe help out issues other users are having with their boxes.

I am currently using Nabilo Blackhole 012 on my DM800. I am finding it a fantastic image, rock solid and very nice UI. The EPG works very well on it. It comes with the ability to get a 7 day EPG for most providers without any external plugins. I do have some slight issue with the 7day EPG for ITV but hopefully can figure it out.

M5

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

So then there seems to be a lot more owners of the 800 series Dreambox on these forums so I thought maybe a thread where we can discuss our favourite plugins and images and maybe help out issues other users are having with their boxes.

I am currently using Nabilo Blackhole 012 on my DM800. I am finding it a fantastic image, rock solid and very nice UI. The EPG works very well on it. It comes with the ability to get a 7 day EPG for most providers without any external plugins. I do have some slight issue with the 7day EPG for ITV but hopefully can figure it out.

Same box and Image as yourself. Most of the plugins are available directly from the menu in every image. Whats your issue with ITV EPG? some chans physically dont have a 7day EPG afik!

Ronan|Raven

The youtube plugin provided with Nabilo works very well I have to say, I was actually surprised how well it works.

Have you tried any of the media centre plugins?

cormacl

Not to gatecrash.. using a DM8000 myself and Gemini 4.6. Freesat EPG support is excellent and in terms of youtube, I've been using the My Tube Player plugin.. not bad at all.

Never tried Nabilosat.. whats the main advantage over Gemini?

Also, the 800 had many complaints going around about power and other things not working etc.. is all that fixed now or was it just s/w updates that sorted it. It would be good to know.

BTW: If any of you have HD video cameras recording in AVCHD format. Theres a tool called TsMuxer (http://www.smlabs.net/tsmuxer_en.html) that can load the individual files or playlists from the media and export H.264 compliant .ts files that will play perfectly on the dreambox. It also works with .MOV files that come from some of the cheaper Aiptek and Kodak cameras etc. We use the box as a video repository for home movies etc.. its just wonderful.

The same tool can be used to convert .ts files into blu-ray file structures and even if like myself you don't want to buy a blu-ray burner or expensive discs, you can still chop the .ts files into sizes <= 4.7Gb using tsmuxer and then re-encode each into blu-ray structures and just burn to regular DVDs.. meaning you can get HD recorded content onto DVDs that will then play back in PS3's and Blu-Ray players. You can get around 30 mins HD onto a regular DVD this way.

snaps

As far as i know there is no epg/data for itv HD as technically it is a interactive channel (Only accesible via a freesat red button)

Pal

potential buyer.

please explain what is an image and nabilo ?

M5

Pal wrote: »

potential buyer.

please explain what is an image and nabilo ?

Image is the software or operating system to be more correct. There are two major images for dreambox, gemini and nabilosat. Both are very good images compared with the stock software. They have features like week long EPG as opposed to now and next. There are also several plugins available for everything form auto reboots to auto IMDB lookup

redout

DM800HD is a top box.

I got one several weeks back and no complaints.

I am using a Gemini image.

Someone care to explain how I get the 7 day EPG please ?

cormacl

Go to blue panel, settings, EPG.. then toggle the Freesat option to on.

I also recommend the update interval to 1 hour and to enable caching to the hard-drive every 3 hours (thats if you have a drive installed or are using an external drive).

Tune to say BBC1 and leave it there for a few minutes.. then the epg should start showing listings shortly afterward.

redout

cormacl wrote: »

Go to blue panel, settings, EPG.. then toggle the Freesat option to on.

I also recommend the update interval to 1 hour and to enable caching to the hard-drive every 3 hours (thats if you have a drive installed or are using an external drive).

Tune to say BBC1 and leave it there for a few minutes.. then the epg should start showing listings shortly afterward.

Thanks but is that just for the UK channels ?

Someone mentioned above that you can get EPG for most european providers ?

cormacl

Yes the freesat is for UK only. But for general European providers, there will usually be the standard DVB EPG, transmitted with the service itself. Those services should already be seeing the EPG. Pick one, select info and then single EPG.

My DM8000 setup is for UK, German & Irish DTT. The DTT services carry the standard DVB, as does all the German services.. so these just work. Only the UK ones require the Freesat option to be enabled.

If for some reason, generic DVB EPGs are not working, go back into the same section as previously advised and make sure the private EPG option is enabled. It certainly is by default but check anyway.

There is also a Media Highway EPG option, which might be required for some of the European services. If there is any specific service not working, advise if possible and I can check if I'm seeing an EPG on my setup. I've got 13.0/19.2 LNBs

redout

Just switched on Media and Private.

Thanks

fergiesarmy

hi folks, i am using the nabilo black hole v12 also and it seems to be a great stable image. The epg is excellent compared to where we were at a year ago with now and next. I know trona raven was saying the epg works for all channels. I cannot seem to get it for setanta ireland or for the five channels among a few others. It does work for most mind you. Why would this be?? I cannot seem to work it out.

Nehaxak

I've a legit DM800HD (not a clone) since release but after moving into a new house and not having the permission to install a multisat set-up, I packed the DM800 away in it's box and it's been sitting there for over a year now

Just wondering though, have they sorted out the problems with the overheating on the DM800's and freezing on the HD channels ? I had to build a USB fan made up of an old CPU fan and have it sitting on top of the box to keep it cool, was annoying. If firmware updates or other image (Gemini or whatever) have since sorted these overheating and HD freezing problems out, I'd be tempted to use it again.

Apogee

fergiesarmy wrote: »

hi folks, i am using the nabilo black hole v12 also and it seems to be a great stable image. The epg is excellent compared to where we were at a year ago with now and next. I know trona raven was saying the epg works for all channels. I cannot seem to get it for setanta ireland or for the five channels among a few others. It does work for most mind you. Why would this be?? I cannot seem to work it out.

The Freesat EPG stream only carries channel info for the official Freesat line up of channels.

Other plugins can "decode" other EPG streams, such as Sky's, giving you access to a wider range of TV channels, but not the radio channels.

pelisor2000

ahy problem with overheating?

Ronan|Raven

Mine is beginning to have overheating issues. I have placed it ontop of a laptop cooler blowing air up and a 80cm fan on top to suck the air out and it has helped alot....

pelisor2000

[IMG][/img]
a good solution for overheating!! fan is taking power from a 12v transformer

maatti

bonjour, je n'arrive pas a avoir EPG sur ma dm 800 avec gemini 4.6, je ne recoie que le programme en cour et celui qui suit, est ce quelqu'un aurait une idée merci

Nehaxak

maatti wrote: »

bonjour, je n'arrive pas a avoir EPG sur ma dm 800 avec gemini 4.6, je ne recoie que le programme en cour et celui qui suit, est ce quelqu'un aurait une idée merci

Bonjour, je pense que vous avez besoin d'avoir un extra addon installé et configuré pour obtenir l'EPG de certains prestataires, sinon, vous récupérez l maintenant et de la prochaine stuff. Également, de parler en anglais veuillez comme sinon vous n'obtiendriez pas de nombreuses réponses

EDIT: Broken French for sure but asked him to speak English in future or he might not get responses.
He was asking what he needs to do to get EPG's on the Gemini image, I presume like the Sly or freesat EPG's in particular. Anyone else able to suggest the correct addons needing to be installed for this ?

maatti

Hello,
I do not has to have hello EPG on my DM 800 with gemini 4.6, I have just the program in and lawsuit That Which Is,
thank you idea would have this somebody One

fergiesarmy

Apogee wrote: »

The Freesat EPG stream only carries channel info for the official Freesat line up of channels.

Other plugins can "decode" other EPG streams, such as Sky's, giving you access to a wider range of TV channels, but not the radio channels.

I dont see any freesat option on my epg? Setanta ireland is not freesat so why is this not updated by the epg? Is five freesat? I thought those channels are encrypted too

M5

fergiesarmy wrote: »

I dont see any freesat option on my epg? Setanta ireland is not freesat so why is this not updated by the epg? Is five freesat? I thought those channels are encrypted too

Theres a new downloadable (internet not OTA) EPG on the latest nabilosat, been using it for a week and its the bomb! Used to have problems with summaries not appearing with the OTA version and some chans, like FIVE, RTE and setanta would not work at all. All sorted now, summaries even show up on the main EPG screeen (under the mini tv screen)

Ronan|Raven

maatti wrote: »

Hello,
I do not has to have hello EPG on my DM 800 with gemini 4.6, I have just the program in and lawsuit That Which Is,
thank you idea would have this somebody One

Do you mean you just get the "now and next" program information? What is the channel provider you are wishing to get EPG data for?

maatti

Hello, I receive only the information from the program in court and that according to, I am on Numéricâble and cannal plus France. I will like to have given EPG

M5

maatti wrote: »

Hello, I receive only the information from the program in court and that according to, I am on Numéricâble and cannal plus France. I will like to have given EPG

Might be better checking here:

http://www.sat-television.com/forumdisplay.php/62-French-Franais?

French forum! (En francais)

Apogee

fergiesarmy wrote: »

I dont see any freesat option on my epg? Setanta ireland is not freesat so why is this not updated by the epg? Is five freesat? I thought those channels are encrypted too

I don't use that image, but the EPG option is probably buried in the advanced settings. As Setanta is not on Freesat, then why would it be updated??? Five is FTA and part of Freesat.

azzeretti

I have a couple of DM800's at the moment, one with BH0.12 and the other Gemin4.6. Has anyone figured out how to get the weekly EPG without Zapping to the Radio channel? My boxes seem to do this daily and then ignores the "Standby when complete" option. This means the update zaps the channel at 2am but doesn't actually update until I switch the box on. Not a big issue, but you're waiting a couple of mins before the update completes!

M5

azzeretti wrote: »

I have a couple of DM800's at the moment, one with BH0.12 and the other Gemin4.6. Has anyone figured out how to get the weekly EPG without Zapping to the Radio channel? My boxes seem to do this daily and then ignores the "Standby when complete" option. This means the update zaps the channel at 2am but doesn't actually update until I switch the box on. Not a big issue, but you're waiting a couple of mins before the update completes!

It probably is updating, it just stays on that chan. when you turn the box back on it is on the radio chan and starts updating again! Seem to remember a previous nabilosat image doing the same! You could set up a zap to bbc1 at 2.10 and a standby at 2.11!

fergiesarmy

Apogee wrote: »

I don't use that image, but the EPG option is probably buried in the advanced settings. As Setanta is not on Freesat, then why would it be updated??? Five is FTA and part of Freesat.

Sorry folks but i still dont get setanta updated or the freesat five uk etc. I cannot see any settings in the epg and i have checked them all to toggle to update freesat or anyhting along those lines. Confused

M5

fergiesarmy wrote: »

Sorry folks but i still dont get setanta updated or the freesat five uk etc. I cannot see any settings in the epg and i have checked them all to toggle to update freesat or anyhting along those lines. Confused

What image are you using?
What version is is?
Did you download the channel list?
Did you select the chans you want updated
Did you try the internet update EPG?

Apogee

azzeretti wrote: »

I have a couple of DM800's at the moment, one with BH0.12 and the other Gemin4.6. Has anyone figured out how to get the weekly EPG without Zapping to the Radio channel? My boxes seem to do this daily and then ignores the "Standby when complete" option. This means the update zaps the channel at 2am but doesn't actually update until I switch the box on. Not a big issue, but you're waiting a couple of mins before the update completes!

If it's tuning to Hip Hop radio, or any of the other radio stations on 11778 V then it's downloading the Sky EPG data on that TP - it's Sky's main data transponder. There is no other way of downloading the Sky EPG data other than tuning to this TP unless you do so over the net.

By contrast, the Freesat EPG data can be downloaded by tuning to any Freesat channel and the EPG info will be populated in the background while you're watching BBC1 for example. With the Pli Jade image, from cold start it takes about 3-5 mins to do this and it continually updates in the background while the receiver is on.

Nehaxak

Nehaxak wrote: »

Just wondering though, have they sorted out the problems with the overheating on the DM800's and freezing on the HD channels ? I had to build a USB fan made up of an old CPU fan and have it sitting on top of the box to keep it cool, was annoying. If firmware updates or other image (Gemini or whatever) have since sorted these overheating and HD freezing problems out, I'd be tempted to use it again.

Thought I'd follow-up and answer my own question

The firmware has improved dramatically, as have the images. I am running the DM800HD perfectly fine with no freezing/stutters on HD channels or otherwise and I'm also not even using a fan to cool it down. So kudos to Dream I guess for sorting stuff out.

Using Gemini 4.6 as my main image of choice also.

harps2299

fergiesarmy wrote: »

Sorry folks but i still dont get setanta updated or the freesat five uk etc. I cannot see any settings in the epg and i have checked them all to toggle to update freesat or anyhting along those lines. Confused

use nabilo 12 mate hit blue blue epg/panel hit red turn all on hit red again scroll down to skymate uk hit green then red enable auto refresh and input time hit red then yellow full 7 days epg will update every nite at time you specified

azzeretti

Has anyone managed to get EPG info on Nabilosat BH0.12 for the Irish Channels? RTE's, TV3 etc? I use the HIPHOP channel for updates but the channel list doesn't contain any Irish channels?

harps2299

azzeretti wrote: »

Has anyone managed to get EPG info on Nabilosat BH0.12 for the Irish Channels? RTE's, TV3 etc? I use the HIPHOP channel for updates but the channel list doesn't contain any Irish channels?

use the skymate instead ov the sky uk as i said above works sweet

azzeretti

derek_c wrote: »

I received one on friday, it came with Gemini image on it. I reflashed with bh 012 and all is working fine so far. Have not got around to sticking in the hard drive yet. Mine came with a heatsink and fan and double sided sticky pad. Have not put that on yet either but no freezing as of yet.
Have the EPG working fine using skymate as described below.

I bought mine from the UK, they are cheaper from China but if anything goes wrong you have to weigh in the cost of shipping it back.

Any problems with signal breakup on certain HD channels?

cormacl

should you really be discussing cloned dreamboxes.. I thought illegal chat was frowned upon.

While the base receiver "enigma" software and openembedded Linux is opensource, the front-loader and firmware is proprietary software from DMM. Also the tuner drivers are closed source and are licenced to DMM to use.

Cloning any of that propietary software onto non-DMM hardware is illegal, in fact very illegal.. its actually piracy.

Manc-Red

Is a sky uk epg (7days) available with the Gemini image guys?

derek_c

azzeretti wrote: »

Any problems with signal breakup on certain HD channels?

No my HD channels are fine, no break up issues. I have purchased a laptop cooler with two fans for €6 from Ebay. Has brought my temps down to 28 degrees. Prefer to have it running cool rather than hot.

Full 7 day EPG available with the Nabilo bh 0.12

cormacl

Folks,
BTW.. the 500 HD is supposed to be released to distributors next week although I've read March 15th as a more likely data for online shops to get stock.

The 500HD differs from the 800HD with a 400Mhz processor (same as the DM8000) instead of the 300Mhz. It also loses the OLED display, plugable tuner (AFAIK only DVB-S2 version available) and has no space for an internal 2.5" hard-drive. It does however have a HDMI output and e-sata port for an external drive.

Some of the posts in IHAD (I-have-a-dreambox.com) mentioned that it was faster to use than a DM8000, not that I ever found the DM8000 slow. But those comments may have been geared toward the lag tha some can occasionally see with the DM800.. but from what I read, those issues were solved in later images.

RRP is expected to be €339, although HM-Sat are already listing it at €349. A legit DM800 retails at €409. So not that much cheaper. Makes you wonder why they didn't just issue a new DM800 with updated specs.

Details below..
https://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/en/new-hdtv-receiver-dm500-hd

https://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/en/dm-500-hd

Nehaxak

cormacl wrote: »

should you really be discussing cloned dreamboxes.. I thought illegal chat was frowned upon.

While the base receiver "enigma" software and openembedded Linux is opensource, the front-loader and firmware is proprietary software from DMM. Also the tuner drivers are closed source and are licenced to DMM to use.

Cloning any of that propietary software onto non-DMM hardware is illegal, in fact very illegal.. its actually piracy.

It's not illegal in any way whatsoever to discuss satellite receivers, original/cloned or otherwise.

It just so happens certain satellite receivers can be used to get around copyright restrictions, the Dreamboxes and their clones are not alone in that ability nor is it their intended purposes.

Nobody here is discussing anything of that nature so I don't see what the problem is tbh.

cormacl

Nehaxak wrote: »

It's not illegal in any way whatsoever to discuss satellite receivers, original/cloned or otherwise.

I was specifically mentioning the discussion of cloned dreamboxes. They are illegal copies of a proprietary hardware design and bios/front-loader firmware. The Linux and Enigma part is fully opensourced.. no issues there. The Qbox and Vuo+ are examples of other brands that use that source legally.

The dreambox clones are Chinese-sourced clones of the real thing. They violate copyright laws by the unauthorised cloning of a motherboard design and contain cloned firmware that is propietary to DMM. Distributing and purchasing such cloned dreamboxes is illegal. Dream multimedia have sucessfully prosecuted people over selling and importing them... fact.

Its no different to pirated DVDs or music.. you're buying a copy of someone elses work and can be prosecuted for your actions.

If you tried to discuss good places to illegally download movies or music on these forums or access paid satellite content with key sharing etc.. a Mod would intervene in a shot due to the legal implications for boards.ie alone, not to mention the illegalilty. The clones are in the exact same boat.

Nehaxak

cormacl wrote: »

I was specifically mentioning the discussion of cloned dreamboxes. They are illegal copies of a proprietary hardware design and bios/front-loader firmware. The Linux and Enigma part is fully opensourced.. no issues there. The Qbox and Vuo+ are examples of other brands that use that source legally.

The dreambox clones are Chinese-sourced clones of the real thing. They violate copyright laws by the unauthorised cloning of a motherboard design and contain cloned firmware that is propietary to DMM. Distributing and purchasing such cloned dreamboxes is illegal. Dream multimedia have sucessfully prosecuted people over selling and importing them... fact.

Its no different to pirated DVDs or music.. you're buying a copy of someone elses work and can be prosecuted for your actions.

If you tried to discuss good places to illegally download movies or music on these forums or access paid satellite content with key sharing etc.. a Mod would intervene in a shot due to the legal implications for boards.ie alone, not to mention the illegalilty. The clones are in the exact same boat.

Myself personally Cormac I have an original DM800 (along with a 7000 around somewhere) but fact is, people have "clones" and use them. Don't see a reason to stop people talking about them either way.

Technically speaking, they're only called clones because people decide to call them that and copyright on the name and/or hardware itself doesn't extend to China anyway, where for the most part these "clones" are made.

When they're exported from China they're usually exported without any original firmware that might be deemed copyright in Europe. It's the sellers mostly that place firmware on the boxes for their custmers and mostly at that, third party firmware (like Gemini etc.,).

If someone was on here saying they were manufacturing cloned hardware or a copyrighted product in Europe then that would be a different story, but they're not. It's merely people who have bought receivers (deemed otherwise and as heresay only really as clones) asking for help or discussing images etc., that work on original dreamboxes and also other receivers, including those otherwise deemed as "clones".

DreamMultiMedia's prosecutions only extend so far to large importers of cloned dreamboxes selling them for the most part within Europe as the original, which is breaking EU copyright laws.

There's no discussion of pirating going on here at all and nobody is selling any boxes or otherwise either.

Might also be worth pointing out that dreambox images also work on some other completely different satellite receivers.

If Boards.ie were allowing the sale of non original satellite receivers being passed off as the original or allowing discussion of piracy in regards satellite TV reception then they might have a problem, but they're not doing that and people here are not doing that either, so again, I don't see a problem.

If you do see a problem though, report it and let the mods/admins do what they think is necessary and we'll all have to abide by whatever it is they decide is best in the interests of Boards.

I think though that it would be a shame to stiffle discussion and force a fairly large pencentage of Dreambox users in Ireland elsewhere when they're doing nothing illegal at all.

cormacl

Nehaxak wrote: »

When they're exported from China they're usually exported without any original firmware that might be deemed copyright in Europe. It's the sellers mostly that place firmware on the boxes for their custmers and mostly at that, third party firmware (like Gemini etc.,).

Thats not correct.. you're confusing the image as being everything on the box. These images are distributed for free and if people can modify or get these to work on non-DMM hardware, there is no issue here.

These devices have a programmed front-loader that is used to boot an installed image and flash the receiver first day. Its not the image itself, its the front loader or first-stage hardware boot. The nearest thing I can match it to is a BIOS/EFI component of a PC or MAC.. something has to run first before we can load an operating system.

While the front-loader can actually be upgraded during a regular image install (seldom done but does happen), a version has to be there first for a flash to even take place.. thats the piracy violation.

In order to make a receiver thats usable, the clone manufacturer had to copy this data from a real receiver, and then illegally program the clone so that it would act as the real thing. What he copied was proprietary. That's a direct infringement on DMM IPR. The sale and possession of such a device in the EU is thus illegal.

It doesn't end there.. the second aspect is the board itself.. while the CPU reference is going to be a MIPs or Broadcomm DVB design, the actual layout and end product is owned and copyrighted by Dream.. to manufacturer clones of these and sell them is another violation. And finally Alps and Phillips to name a couple have licenced tuner firmware to DMM.. to use that on non-DMM kit, is again a violation.

I'm fine with there being discussion on dreamboxes, they are absolutely fantastic receivers. I've owned three in my time. But if people are going to enthusiastically talk about them, then keep it legal and make it clear that possession and purchase of clones is illegal in the EU.

Finally, I have worked in the software industry for 14 years, and been witness to customers cloning our systems and defeating licencing etc.

I have to point out that the proliferation of dreambox clones will ultimately damage the company that did the most work on evolution of the dreambox and its related software.

redout

Please show me one person who buys an official dreambox and doesnt alter in one way or another.

Nehaxak

I don't agree that purchase (or selling) of a satellite receiver similar to another in Europe is illegal unless they're being sold as an original dreambox - which for the most part they are not. If they are being branded as original DreamBoxes then that is another matter entirely.

I definetly do not agree though that possesion of same or either is in any way illegal as a consumer unless you intentionally bought a branded dreambox knowing it was counterfeit.

Can you point out an actual law on this at all now rather than your opinion though Cormac - That posession of a satellite receiver, let's for the sake of argument call it "The DreamFox", is illegal in Ireland/Europe just because it acts similar or has similar hardware to another, or even a similar (but not the exact same) name ?

While I would agree that clones are cutting into the market of DreamMultiMedia, I honestly have no love lost for Dream as they price their receivers at disgracefully high prices and imho they only have themselves to blame by constantly refusing to drop their prices (due again imo to just plain old greed on their part).

azzeretti

Nehaxak wrote: »

I don't agree that purchase (or selling) of a satellite receiver similar to another in Europe is illegal unless they're being sold as an original dreambox - which for the most part they are not. If they are being branded as original DreamBoxes then that is another matter entirely.

I definetly do not agree though that possesion of same or either is in any way illegal as a consumer unless you intentionally bought a branded dreambox knowing it was counterfeit.

Can you point out an actual law on this at all now rather than your opinion though Cormac - That posession of a satellite receiver, let's for the sake of argument call it "The DreamFox", is illegal in Ireland/Europe just because it acts similar or has similar hardware to another, or even a similar (but not the exact same) name ?

While I would agree that clones are cutting into the market of DreamMultiMedia, I honestly have no love lost for Dream as they price their receivers at disgracefully high prices and imho they only have themselves to blame by constantly refusing to drop their prices (due again imo to just plain old greed on their part).

I think you're missing the point: firstly, the clones are being sold as branded Dreamboxes (have you ever seen one?, not Dreamfox etc.).The are not being sold as "similar receivers". They look almost identical to the original, they even have the DreamMultimedia logo on the front. This is counterfeiting, simple as. This is exactly the same as the counterfiet Rolex and Tag watches, even worse. Apart from the branding, the clones are also using copyrighted source code in the BL and drivers. This isn't simply a case of someone using something almost like the original and having a similar name. This is a case of clone makers using, ILLEGALLY, copyrighted materials. There is no difference between this and buying conterfiet Smokes, CDs, DVDs etc.

The fact that Dream charge very highly for their product shouldn't come into a legal argument (although I do agree they are overpirced). The simple fact is that clones are infringing on copyright. Just take a look at the DreamMultimedia website and you will see a list of UK resellers recently prosecuted and closed down. Now, tell me, how would that happen if the law in the UK thought, like you, that this wasn't anything illegal?

cormacl

Nehaxak,
the whole legality of software piracy is covered under standard copyright law. When the seller makes a statement wrt the licence usage of such software, it creates a contract with the buyer or user.

You see this everywhere, even with free software as it creates a restriction in the area of modifying the software in the form of rebranding, modifying code or bypassing licence restrictions etc. Most of us skip over this clicking on the "I agree" button when installing software etc. But the seller will also have stated his copyright and you are breaking the law if you violate it.

While selling a clone labelled as a dreambox is as much a trade mark violation as it is copyright, the main crime is the fact that the clone manufacturer illegally copied close-sourced drivers and FL code to make his clone work first day.

If you can't get this at this stage, you're either deluded or in denial.. and I'm not trying to be nasty with that statement.. I could have derived from your earlier posts that openly selling copies of commercial DVDs would be deemed OK because you say that its a copy and not pretend that its original... we both know that that is illegal.

Nehaxak

No, I'm not deluded nor in any denial.
I stated clearly that if the "clones" were using the DM brandname then they are probably breaking some trademark law in Europe.

Now, there are "clones" or receivers very similar to dreamboxes which do, almost to a T, the exact same thing as the dreambox, yet they are not branded as dreamboxes and as such are NOT illegal. This goes back to the earlier DM days also, clones of the newer models and DM persisting to mouth off with absolutely no legal footing at all (other than towards those that are branding clones as legit dreamboxes) is all nothing new. Linbox, Eaglebox and whatever other clones at the time were all deemed perfectly legit and legal both to sell and use as none of them bore the trademark belonging to Dream, even if the hardware was the same.

Azzeretti, I wasn't missing any point, I just refuse to swallow heresay as some sort of fact because "someone on the internets wrote it so it must be true". I said quiet clearly that *IF* the clones are branding their kit as original dreamboxes then they are breaking trademark and probably some copyright laws in Europe (which may or may not also apply to Ireland anyway).

However, if they do NOT brand their clones as originals then no laws are being broken by any consumer who might buy one of the so called "clones", which is in itself mostly a slang term these days for nearly any cheap linux receiver that might attempt to do what the Dreamboxes do so well.

No matter about all of this anyway, this was a perfectly fine and legit thread opened for Dreambox users to discuss and ask for help with plugins and images. No mention whatsoever of ANYTHING illegal happened until yourself (Cormac) start throwing around unfounded legal speak, for what I can only see as trying to scare people.

There is not and was not ANY illegal chat going on here whatsoever. If you think otherwise then again, just report the posts.

While you're at it, go on and report the Football streaming sites being posted on Soccer (again nothing illegal) and the absolute ton of posts on Boards relating to homebrew game cards and mods for game consoles and handhelds.
All of which may be bordering on or in a grey area but none of which are illegal to own, use, sell, watch, tickle, laugh, cry, smack or poke fun at.

Users here can go to any plethora of Dreambox sites on the web with around 95% of them blatantly advertising, distributing and supporting breaking of copyright, whether for illegal free TV or otherwise. Not here, that is not what was being discussed at all, nor even hinted at.

All people where discussing here were images and requesting some help with their receivers, that's it, that is all.

If the mods/admins deem that people can no longer use the word "clone" or anything at all whatsoever related to Dreamboxes, then fine, so be it. I just don't see any point in stifling discussion that is not supporting, purporting or even begining to touch on piracy or copyright issues other than the ones you mentioned, just because someone said the word "clone" - which are baseless when it comes to users who for the most part use the word "clone" as a slang term. Maybe they do have, bought and use absolute perfect Dreambox "clones", complete with trademark badge et all., but you don't know that and you can't just presume people are guilty of breaking any law just because someone used the slang term "clone" to describe their receiver.

Can we leave it at that now though and let others just continue their help and discussion thread in peace without any begrudery, scaremongering or otherwise ?

Report whatever posts in your own mind you thought were illegal and I'm sure if they are deemed as such, then the mods/cmods/admins will deal with it, simple as that.

I'm off now to "Hoover" the carpet as I just can't seem to find that damned Vacuum Cleaner thingy anywhere...

cormacl

Nehaxak wrote: »

Now, there are "clones" or receivers very similar to dreamboxes which do, almost to a T, the exact same thing as the dreambox, yet they are not branded as dreamboxes and as such are NOT illegal.

You forgot to mention that these boxes run the same software as the dreamboxes.. meaning that they have to have exactly the same hardware internals.. not similar, not sort of different.. but >exactly< the same to be able to run the same software images or ones written for original dreambox hardware. A dreambox image is not Windows or Linux where it ships with hundreds of built-in drivers for hardware variations.. it ships with drivers for only the original hardware.

The design of the devices is also copyrighted to DMM. The tuners they use work with proprietary drivers licenced from Alps, Philips etc.. they are not opensource.

Also, to install an image and even boot one of these devices, you need to use the front-loader.. again software copyrighted to DMM and not opensource.

You can check the CVS repositories for the enigma/enigma2 code.. all you access is the source for enigma and openembedded (Linux). The front-loader and driver source is only there in object (compiled) form.

So can you understand this part?.. that to be usable, these boxes need to contain software that is not opensource and is copyrighted for use on original boxes only.

A couple of years back, DMM released some easter egg code in to the compiled tuner drivers and front-loader binary. It was programmed to trigger at some distant date in the future.

The code was there to perform hardware checks on the receiver and determine if the MAC address was part of legit series issued by DMM. The action taken for a failure case was to activate a front-loader instruction to overwrite the front-loader with a nobbled version that on boot, would display "Clone Box Detected. Adios Amigo" on screen and then go no further.

Several months later, the date arrived and the forums lit up with people asking about what had happened.. lots and lots of clones were rendered dead-ducks and people were scrambling around trying to obtain jtag cables for raw reflashing of the devices to restore a working front-loader and image.

The action proved that propietary code was being installed on boxes that were not manufactured by DMM and thats been their stance all along. They have stopped several importers and vendors selling these devices not just because some are exact copies visually.. but also because they violate the hardware and software copyright.

Apple took out pystar in the last few months for them selling PC hardware with OSX preinstalled.. the legal basis was the selling of equipment with a copy of OSX modified to work on non-Apple hardware... they won and I can tell you that the pystar boxes did not remotely look like Apple computers.

This goes back to the earlier DM days also, clones of the newer models and DM persisting to mouth off with absolutely no legal footing at all (other than towards those that are branding clones as legit dreamboxes) is all nothing new. Linbox, Eaglebox and whatever other clones at the time were all deemed perfectly legit and legal both to sell and use as none of them bore the trademark belonging to Dream, even if the hardware was the same.

The hardware design is copyrighted.. its illegal to clone it.

Azzeretti, I wasn't missing any point, I just refuse to swallow heresay as some sort of fact because "someone on the internets wrote it so it must be true". I said quiet clearly that *IF* the clones are branding their kit as original dreamboxes then they are breaking trademark and probably some copyright laws in Europe (which may or may not also apply to Ireland anyway).

DMM made a press release stating that they took and won legal action against importers/sellers in the UK, Germany, Poland and other countries.. thats not hear-say. They also in that press release stated the action was about false branding and pirated software. E-bay is now actively involved in preventing these boxes being sold there... again this is real and not hear-say.

However, if they do NOT brand their clones as originals then no laws are being broken by any consumer who might buy one of the so called "clones", which is in itself mostly a slang term these days for nearly any cheap linux receiver that might attempt to do what the Dreamboxes do so well.

Thats saying that a DVD being sold on the street openly as a copy of a commercial film etc is OK?. Its not and any fool knows this.

No matter about all of this anyway, this was a perfectly fine and legit thread opened for Dreambox users to discuss and ask for help with plugins and images. No mention whatsoever of ANYTHING illegal happened until yourself (Cormac) start throwing around unfounded legal speak, for what I can only see as trying to scare people.

wingnut32 asked a question about buying a clone and derek_c responded with confirmation that he had sourced one. wingnut32 asked.. where.. derek_c responded with "pm sent".

Thats when I added my contribution.

There is not and was not ANY illegal chat going on here whatsoever. If you think otherwise then again, just report the posts.

Yes there was.. clone purchase was being discussed. Clones are illegal.. didn't you know?

While you're at it, go on and report the Football streaming sites being posted on Soccer (again nothing illegal) and the absolute ton of posts on Boards relating to homebrew game cards and mods for game consoles and handhelds.

I'll stick to what I know.. thanks. But maybe you should report that to the modes on those boards.

Users here can go to any plethora of Dreambox sites on the web with around 95% of them blatantly advertising, distributing and supporting breaking of copyright, whether for illegal free TV or otherwise. Not here, that is not what was being discussed at all, nor even hinted at.

That they can do.. but boards is very clear on this.. they do not want illegal stuff discussed.. and clones are illegal, even if you don't understand why.

All people where discussing here were images and requesting some help with their receivers, that's it, that is all.

No.. there definitely was stuff on clones.

If the mods/admins deem that people can no longer use the word "clone" or anything at all whatsoever related to Dreamboxes, then fine, so be it. I just don't see any point in stifling discussion that is not supporting, purporting or even begining to touch on piracy or copyright issues other than the ones you mentioned, just because someone said the word "clone" - which are baseless when it comes to users who for the most part use the word "clone" as a slang term. Maybe they do have, bought and use absolute perfect Dreambox "clones", complete with trademark badge et all., but you don't know that and you can't just presume people are guilty of breaking any law just because someone used the slang term "clone" to describe their receiver.

Copyright violation is against the law.. possessing or buying a cloned dreambox is illegal.

Can we leave it at that now though and let others just continue their help and discussion thread in peace without any begrudery, scaremongering or otherwise ?

I'm fine with that.. but clone discussion is not legal.. so lets keep it legal.

Report whatever posts in your own mind you thought were illegal and I'm sure if they are deemed as such, then the mods/cmods/admins will deal with it, simple as that.

Will do

I'm off now to "Hoover" the carpet as I just can't seem to find that damned Vacuum Cleaner thingy anywhere

Should be no issue as long as the internal hardware or its design of your non-Hoover appliance is not a direct rip off of a legitimate product of someone else or that there isn't pirated software/firmware in there.

BTW.. Hoover was technically lost as a trademark when it became used as a slang verb.. so until people start referring to satellite receiver usage as dreamboxing, then there will be no problem. Google have tried to defend their name being used a verb like "google for that" etc to avoid similar issues going forward.