Truth about creches.

celsy

I have worked in creches for many years and I find that parents do not realise what it is like for their child.
First of all I realise that many people do not have much of a choice but to put their child into a creche, but do parents seriously think that their child being stuck in one room for the majority of the day is beneficial to their overall development.
I have found in my experience that child/staff ratio's are rarely adhered to, do parent's understand what happens when a staff member is off sick and how the facility copes.
I have seem circumstances where children are clearly not washed or changed when dropped into the creche which leads me to think many parents just want to drop them off quickly as possible and collect as late as possible.
Also 'paperwork' is ever increasing these days in childcare with staff members having to fill in very detailed records of children's development and preparation of curriculums. While all this is being filled out do parents ever wonder what the children are doing.
Staff are under enormous pressure but at the end of the day creches are businesses and have to put on a good front.
I hope this post doesn't sound like an attack on parents whom most do have their child's best interests in place but I feel like its something that many parents dont fully think about.
I would especially like to hear from other child carers and what experiences they have had.

lalalulu

Hi Celsey.. I'm a qualified childcare worker currently a stay at home mammy. I agree with some of what your are saying however it come's down to the girls who are taking care of the children and how much they are actually dedicated to their job. Childcare is not a job to get in to if your are looking for a large wage, i firmly believe it's a vocation.
What is your point? Are you unhappy in your current job? I have worked for two creche's a well known one and a smaller family run creche. The larger was a joke all the management cared about was money and herding in as many little one's as possible they didn't care about ratio's. The samller one was excellent it was all about the children and their needs and it was very family orientated. Regarding paperwork i would take mine home with me i would never have tried to get this done while i was supposed to taking care of the children. As i said it's not just a job, you should be dedicated and alot of girl's i worked with should nOt have been allowed mind children they had no interest and just saw it as an easy job which in reality turn's out to be a very tough and demanding job. I don't think it's fair to post only negative's about creche's. It's not all doom and gloom...

axel rose

YAWN

Oh the evils of working parents eh? :rolleyes: You are obviously a much better parent than the rest of us mere mortals who plainly put jobs and money ahead of our children.

Were you not getting the expected response on rollercoaster dearie?



You have dreadful standards and a non existant work ethic!!

leesmom

thankfully my little boy is only in a creche for a few hours 4 days a week. but tbh i dont think its helpful for parents to read things like this about creches. at the end of the day parents HAVE to work, they have no choice if they want to support their family. they choose a creche and choose the one that they BELIEVE is best. unfortunately thats just the way it is these days.
but really you are not helping by posting this, most parents worry themselves sick enough as it is. sounds like somebody just had a bad day at work tbh.

lalalulu

Exactly leesmom, clearly she had a bad day.. As you said most parents HAVE to work. Axel, is a similiar post on rollercoaster? i didn't spot it

leesmom

i dont think anyone else should reply to this again, just someone attention seeking again.
these posts go up all the time on rollercoaster. parents have a tough enough time without people trying to add to the guilt of leaving them to go to work or college.

axel rose

Yea lalalulu,
She posted it ages ago. It even had the same heading. She got short shift there too.

This person has the cheek to happily give substandard care and collect a wage and then brag about it!!! THB in 10 years in childcare (teenagers) I have never seen the crap shes banging on about. For the record my son will be returning to a creche when I sort myself out in the next few months.

kosmo

when your wife/partner will call you crying after picking your daughter from crèche because of how dirty and hungry she was, and the answer from the childminder to her questions was: I didn't see that she is dirty and well we didn't manage to give them snack yet, we're just about to (at 3:30 and last meal was at 11:30), then post some more of this stuff up.
You really think that we don't know?
We choose to close an eye and believe that tomorrow it will be better. And yes we don't go all the way mad on the manager/childminder because tomorrow my daughter has to go there again... because we have to provide a future for our kids, not only a present.

lalalulu

Kosmo, surely turning a blind eye isn't the way to deal with it? There are plenty of great creches and childminders out there and not all are expensive..

axel rose

WOW Kosmo :eek:!

You have really awful childcare arrangements!!!!! Why are you leaving your child in such a crappy place? Do you have just the one creche in your entire locality? I have never experienced anything like that.

meisha

thats really disturbing why????? shes your baby its up to you to protect her,get her out of that horrible place ASAP!!!!

Nevyn

celsy if you were that unhappy with the practices of where you were working did you make a complaint about them to management or to the childcare committee?

John Mason

have to say as some who works in the childcare industry in a round about way, i am horrified at some of the creches people leave their children in.

you should read some the HSE Reports on the creches - it would make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck - i dont have children nor am i ever likely to have them but i can tell you, if i ever did there is no way in hell, i would be leaving a child in a creche


but if you have any complaints for your creche PLEASE PLEASE contact the HSE - they cant do anything if you dont let them know there is a problem (not much point in contact the CCC's)

LittleBook

My (now teenage) daughter was in a creche for years and she loved it, she still has a friend from those days, despite moving abroad. The people who ran it were wonderful and we never had any complaints about them.

My nephew is in (a different) creche nowadays and is getting on brilliantly. Again, it's run by wonderful people who genuinely care about their charges, to the point where they came to visit him on their own time when he was in hospital and brought presents!

steps_3314

celsy wrote: »

I have worked in creches for many years and I find that parents do not realise what it is like for their child.
First of all I realise that many people do not have much of a choice but to put their child into a creche, but do parents seriously think that their child being stuck in one room for the majority of the day is beneficial to their overall development.
I have found in my experience that child/staff ratio's are rarely adhered to, do parent's understand what happens when a staff member is off sick and how the facility copes.
I have seem circumstances where children are clearly not washed or changed when dropped into the creche which leads me to think many parents just want to drop them off quickly as possible and collect as late as possible.
Also 'paperwork' is ever increasing these days in childcare with staff members having to fill in very detailed records of children's development and preparation of curriculums. While all this is being filled out do parents ever wonder what the children are doing.
Staff are under enormous pressure but at the end of the day creches are businesses and have to put on a good front.
I hope this post doesn't sound like an attack on parents whom most do have their child's best interests in place but I feel like its something that many parents dont fully think about.
I would especially like to hear from other child carers and what experiences they have had.

Why not keep those thoughts to yourself.

Many of us including myself have no choice but to use Creche facilities so i do not welcome you trying to ruin my day with bad thoughts.

I understand that the creche cannot replace the attention parents can give their kids but they have standards and they have to be adhered too.

My child enjoys going to creche and when she comes home there are signs that she is developing quite normally in fact. She is learning new words all the time and almost walking. She attends 2 days a week but im sure alot of families need to use the creche for the full week.

Obviously i dont know how all creches operate but im quite happy with ours and believe that if any creche was below standards that the proper authorities would step in.

This just pissed me off as im in work and my little girl is in creche at present. Dont see why you are trying to worry parents.

Nevyn

I think most parents will always do thier best for thier children and that includes choosing the best creche possible for them and checking on the facilities and level of care and even popping in unexpectedly to check on their child's well being.

LegacyUser

Some creche stories are horriffic but some must be made up like the one about a crowd in Midleton bringing the kids on a tour in a horsebox.

There still seems to be unlinked regulation of creches. Our creche was telling us how the Fire Officer had visited and told them to make all doors self-closing . This was followed by the Health Board who said that self-closing doors were a hazard.

Ddad

Talk about shooting the messenger. Is it me or did they just point out the substandard care that many creches deliver to children. If you read that post as some kind of vendetta on working parents I thionk your misguided.

I've three children and wehn we needed childcare we looked at a number of creches. Some were ok but some left me with a great sadness as the children had no outside space the staff were overly busy and the places were grubby and poorly maintained; yet they were nearly full. Clearly some parents have little regard for the qulaity of care they give to their children. Creche is after all proxy parental care.

We have been blessed to have had two great flexible childminders but we interviewed and checked out numerous people before we made these choices and we still grappled with the guilt of leaving our children with someone else.

What has struck me has been the aggresiveness of some of the posters. I'd question why such a brief and untargetted post has eleicited such reaction?

axel rose

Talk about shooting the messenger. Is it me or did they just point out the substandard care that many creches deliver to children

Well I am coming at this from two points of view

• As a professional worker with teenagers-ignoring areas of concern (as the OP described) is seriously frowned upon. If she dont want to be part of the solution and report it, then she is as bad as the the people she works with.
• I am the mother of a toddler. Since the death of my husband all the responsibilities and decisions are mine. I am terrified TBH. All the OP has done is instill doubt and fear in parents.

If she is so appalled by what she has witnessed in her work I politely suggest that she get off the computer and follow the guidelines already in place and report her concerns- its what any professional and truely concerned person would do.

Ddad

Fair enough Axel.

Sorry about your circumstances, life must be very hard for you at the moment. I can understand why the OPs post touched a nerve.

The main reson why I posted on this is that it isn't the only thread I've read on the childcare/ creche debate. What generally happens is that someone ( in this case the op) makes the point that some creches are bad; some parents show ltlle afterthought in their decison making and then a slew of the op is anti working parent posts follow.

I'd like to see the issues raised discussed rather than stomping on the OP. I think she raised some valid points; I don't think the validity of the points she raised is diluted by your objections to her.

I partly nailed my colours to the mast on the last post; I think some parents do not give enough thought to the care of their children. I think a lot of people who protest that they need to work and have the kids in creche full time are full of it. I also think a lot of people have no choice but to work to pay for the minimum housing they can afford, drive modest cars and live modest lives.

I don't have all of the answers, you do get answers from debate though; no debate no answers.

eviltwin

I've luckily never had to rely on outside child care for either of my kids thanks to my generous mum but I have heard some stories that would make your hair curl. Then again I know some people who have had nothing but the highest praise for the creches their kids go to.

Its like any service, some people will provide a good one, some not so good. Its shocking to hear of kids being put in dangerous situations when they are in the care of other people but don't use that as a yardstick for every creche in the country...you never hear about the wonderful ones after all do you?

Instead of using it as a way to reopen that tired old debate about the working parent vs the stay at home parent lets use it as a way of trying to introduce some legislation that all these places will have to adhere too so that those people who choose/have to put their kids in creches at least have some piece of mind

Tabnabs

Ddad wrote: »

Clearly some parents have little regard for the qulaity of care they give to their children. Creche is after all proxy parental care.

We have been blessed to have had two great flexible childminders but we interviewed and checked out numerous people before we made these choices and we still grappled with the guilt of leaving our children with someone else.

Funnily enough, we met with two childminders and visited four creches and the creche won hands down. To have a childminder to us meant effectively one person raising our child in relative isolation with none of the advantages of group interaction or control on the quality of care being given by one individual.

But to get back to the OP, what has the post achieved? Working parents need childcare for their children. Another post talked of the horror of HSE reports, care to provide evidence of this? Otherwise you're just like that woman in the Simpson's cartoon who screams horrified "Won't somebody please think of the children?!". People need to think and act responsibly in this area.

mia1

kosmo wrote: »

when your wife/partner will call you crying after picking your daughter from crèche because of how dirty and hungry she was, and the answer from the childminder to her questions was: I didn't see that she is dirty and well we didn't manage to give them snack yet, we're just about to (at 3:30 and last meal was at 11:30), then post some more of this stuff up.
You really think that we don't know?
We choose to close an eye and believe that tomorrow it will be better. And yes we don't go all the way mad on the manager/childminder because tomorrow my daughter has to go there again... because we have to provide a future for our kids, not only a present.

Oh my God!!
Seriously, I cannot believe what I've read on some of these posts!
Attcaking a poster for raising some very valid points in my opinion and saying not to discuss it because you already know, decide to turn a blind eye and don't want it brought up because it makes you feel bad as a parent....WOW!!

I did not view the OP as a attack on parents but rather an honest account of what some (not all!! before you all tear me apart) creches are really like!!
I think the OP was trying to make the point that many parents will judge the quality of a setting by what they see when they are present like the attitudes of the staff, resources available etc. they may never think of how there child is treated when they are not there, when the practitioners have assessments to carry out, lunches to prepare, reports to write up, diaries of childrens days to fill in....
I don't blame parents for not considering these things nor do I think it's a bad thing to place your child in a creche however I think it's despicable to try to sweep genuine concerns over a child's wellbeing under the carpet because the reality of the situation may upset you!!!

mia1

Dyflin wrote: »

Funnily enough, we met with two childminders and visited four creches and the creche won hands down. To have a childminder to us meant effectively one person raising our child in relative isolation with none of the advantages of group interaction or control on the quality of care being given by one individual.

But to get back to the OP, what has the post achieved? Working parents need childcare for their children. Another post talked of the horror of HSE reports, care to provide evidence of this? Otherwise you're just like that woman in the Simpson's cartoon who screams horrified "Won't somebody please think of the children?!". People need to think and act responsibly in this area.

That's great and very responsible that you considered different options before placing your child in childcare. I agree a good quality creche setting is really positive for a child's social development etc.

In relation to you're second point- what has the post achieved?
Well what that post achieved in this thread seemed to be it hit a raw nerve with many parents and lead to the OP basically being told to keep her opinions to herself! To be honest this is my first time posting in this forum and seeing the reaction the OP got it would not encourage me to do so in future! I thought when opening this thread I would have read a civil debate among adults on the diversity in quality in childcare settings with maybe some pointers of what parents should be concerned about etc.

In regard to evidence of bad practice in early years settings, i don't have any to hand at the moment, I'll try to dig out a very interesting article I think it was from the Irish Times on an undercover report in a creche where a child was tied to a chair. Now I'm not trying to scaremonger, I believe (and truly hope) that kind of practice goes on in a very small minority of settings but I thinkit's totally irresponsible as parents/adults/childcare workers to not even be open to the suggestion that childrens needs are not always met in a childcare setting.

Another poster mentioned that they trust the authorities to identify any wrongdoing! Do you realise how often creches are inspected and what these inspections consist of! Parents and childcare workers also have a responsibility to report concerns you know.

mia1

Ddad wrote: »

I'd like to see the issues raised discussed rather than stomping on the OP. I think she raised some valid points; I don't think the validity of the points she raised is diluted by your objections to her.

I don't have all of the answers, you do get answers from debate though; no debate no answers.

Major + 1.
Well said!

Nevyn

mia1 the person who started this thread is what we often call a drive by, they have never posted anywhere else on the site and thier post seems to be having a go at parents who put thier kids in creches.

This is also called a troll, someone who posts something to get up the regualers who do post on the forum backs up. If the thread had of been started in a different manner the tone could of been a lot different.

I agree with you that parents should report things and keep a close eye and check on the conditions of the chrech themselves and look up reports on them.

mia1

leesmom wrote: »

thankfully my little boy is only in a creche for a few hours 4 days a week. but tbh i dont think its helpful for parents to read things like this about creches. at the end of the day parents HAVE to work, they have no choice if they want to support their family. they choose a creche and choose the one that they BELIEVE is best. unfortunately thats just the way it is these days.

Well I think it is important, it may open some peoples minds up to the possibility that things may not be as they should.

Re: The second highlighted point....just because that's the way things are does not mean it's right!

Things will remain the way they are only if people allow it to continue.

mia1

Thaedydal wrote: »

thier post seems to be having a go at parents who put thier kids in creches.

This is also called a troll, someone who posts something to get up the regualers who do post on the forum backs up. If the thread had of been started in a different manner the tone could of been a lot different.

Okay you're a mod so maybe you have proof that the OP is a troll but I have reread that post a few times and I honestly do not see how everyone is viewing it as an attack on working parents! But we all view things differently i suppose depending on which side of the fence we're standing.

celsy

I think the OP was trying to make the point that many parents will judge the quality of a setting by what they see when they are present like the attitudes of the staff, resources available etc. they may never think of how there child is treated when they are not there, when the practitioners have assessments to carry out, lunches to prepare, reports to write up, diaries of childrens days to fill in....

Im sorry to all those offended by my opening post, this is pretty much the point i wanted to make, not to attack anyone as i know most just want the best.
To those who say why not go to the authorities and complain, I have made my views heard but to no avail.

* What am I now called - a troll, yeah it was my first post cause i just joined, what do you expect.

we'llallhavetea_old

i'm slightly alarmed by some of the responses on here.

if the op has "instilled fear" or worries into parents who use creches, why are they putting their children somewhere that is not 100% trustworthy? tbh the op shouldn't be able to upset you, because you should be completely sure your child is being cared for in an appropriate manner.

that is all!

mia1

celsy wrote: »

Im sorry to all those offended by my opening post, this is pretty much the point i wanted to make, not to attack anyone as i know most just want the best.
To those who say why not go to the authorities and complain, I have made my views heard but to no avail.

I don't think you have any need to apologise. It's a public forum, people should be allowed to have their own opinions without being attacked because it goes against the grain.

Yeah, I don't think people realise just how frustrating it is to spent years studying early childhood, it being drummed into you how perfect settings should be, how the child's needs must always come first, how they should be treated as individuals, with rights, opinions, how they should be disciplined using positive reinforcement etc. etc. and to then go out and work in a real life setting where things are not perfect, you witness the child not always coming first...sometimes reports etc comes first..sometimes discussing events from the weekend comes first, sometimes pretty obvious things are not right and parents seem to be oblivious to it all.
And as I said I am in no way attacking parents. Before I expereinced what happens in a creche first hand I would never have considered the amount of paperwork etc practioners have to get done so I don't blame parents for not being aware of it, I did however think they would appreciate a bit of insight!

mia1

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

if the op has "instilled fear" or worries into parents who use creches, why are they putting their children somewhere that is not 100% trustworthy? tbh the op shouldn't be able to upset you, because you should be completely sure your child is being cared for in an appropriate manner.

The thing is I think a lot of parents believe the creche they use is "100% trustworthy" and that's why they have taken such a dim view of the OP.
As a childcare worker I will say this..I don't think any parent should view ANY setting as 100% trustworthy.
No matter what the situation...creches, hospitals, schools, farms...people have to be open to the fact that things are not always perfect, people are not all perfect otherwise abuse, negligence etc would never be discovered.
Now as I said I am not trying to scaremonger, thankfully I have never come across a situation where a child was put in serious danger/abused etc (thankfully) and many settings I have been in have been wonderful but there have been practices/situations I did not agree with which parents were not aware of!

mia1

axel rose wrote: »

This person has the cheek to happily give substandard care and collect a wage and then brag about it!!! THB in 10 years in childcare (teenagers) I have never seen the crap shes banging on about. .

Okay axel rose so just because you've only witnessed perfect care of children then it means it couldn't happen anywhere else?

axel rose

If I remember correctly when the OP posted on rollercoaster, it transpired that they were a childminder...........maybe I'm wrong? (This is literally a verbatim post and reminds me of times when I reread a book!!!)

Anyway Op please explain why you worked in numerous creches and chose not to follow set guidelines and report the negligent behaviour of your workmates.


Its too easy to criticise when you are prepared to do nothing OP. You have and had the power to adequately protect children and chose to do nothing.

axel rose

mia1 wrote: »

Okay axel rose so just because you've only witnessed perfect care of children then it means it couldn't happen anywhere else?

I claim absolutely nothing of the sort Mia1. However in my field when we see anything that we are concerned about we dont take to our keyboards and let it continue.

I have ( and probably will in future) report any concerns to the appropiate peoples to ensure that standards remain high.

I have also assisted both parents and children to do the same. Its very standard in my field.

mia1

axel rose wrote: »

Its too easy to criticise when you are prepared to do nothing OP. You have and had the power to adequately protect children and chose to do nothing.

From my own experience and from hearing that of others, a situation has to be pretty major to be taken notice of.

"you" I take it you mean all childcare workers have the power to protect children? Am I right?
Because in my opinion "you" should refer to parents aswell and if you want to acuse the OP of doing nothing then I'm sure you won't mind me saying that you coming on a public forum an reassuring parents that this type of thing does not happen is not exactly proctecting children either now is it?

mia1

axel rose wrote: »

I claim absolutely nothing of the sort Mia1.

Why did you refer to it as "crap" if you believe it does happen?

leesmom

i dont even know why so many people have replied to the op when clearly she was just having a bad day . she hasnt even posted since. if she really cared about the children in her care she would complain.
mia that is the way things are these days. but if people like the op actually had a genuine concern they should report the creche.
i checked 6 or 7 creches before putting my son into one. we brought him into one, had a look around while he toddled around the place only to find him picking up a really sharp knife one of the teachers had left on the table after cutting up food. its one of the bigger chains so obviously we decided against that one. parents do their best, why else would people search so much to try and find a creche they believe is good for their child.

lalalulu

I think any of us here who have worked in creches can relate to some of what celsey has said. I think it is the way you worded your post celsy it seemed you were saying parents don't care where they send their children.
I will never put my child into a creche in ireland only because they are not regulated properly and the hse do not carry out proper inspections. There are great creches and some awful one's, unfortunately it's hard to know as a parent which is which...

mia1

axel rose wrote: »

Its very standard in my field.

And what is your "field"?
You may find that reporting procedures are much more co-ordinated in other "fields" than in an private creche for example.

mia1

leesmom wrote: »

mia that is the way things are these days. but if people like the op actually had a genuine concern they should report the creche.

But this is my point. Things are the way they are because people do nothing about it!!
However it came across in many of the first replies to this thread that the OP was making up that things like that happened. Many of you took her post to be an attack on your parenting rather than addressing the very real issues the OP raised. It seemed as if youse didn't believe these things happen in creches or do realise it but decide to accept/ignore it

Of course childcare workers have a responsibility to report concerns but so do parents or anyone else who comes in contact with the setting for that matter.

mia1

leesmom wrote: »

i dont even know why so many people have replied to the op when clearly she was just having a bad day . she hasnt even posted since. .

But this is the thing, I see that post as more than "just having a bad day"
I see real issues being raised.
And yes she has(unless she has deleted it since)

mia1

lalalulu wrote: »

they are not regulated properly and the hse do not carry out proper inspections. There are great creches and some awful one's, unfortunately it's hard to know as a parent which is which...

Exactly!!
Thats why a discussion on the subject rather than dismissing the OPs claims may give parents an idea of what to look out for/what they need to be aware of

mia1

steps_3314 wrote: »

Why not keep those thoughts to yourself.

Many of us including myself have no choice but to use Creche facilities so i do not welcome you trying to ruin my day with bad thoughts.

This just pissed me off as im in work and my little girl is in creche at present. Dont see why you are trying to worry parents.

TBH maybe if you can't deal with the issue you shouldn't read the post rather than advising someone not to post it.

lalalulu

Mia1 clearly these issues have to dealt with and of course they should be out in the open i personally don't think boards is the place.. I wouldn't think twice about reporting abuse, neglect etc in a creche. I think th op should report any concerns she has rather than ranting on the internet...

axel rose

Mia, do you have a particular reason to overuse your """""""" when asking anything of me?

Anyhoo, Im a social care worker with the HSE. I have a lot of experience. I think its difficult to believe that this is commonplace. Any one with an interest in working with children should not ignore substandard care and policies.



Of course there are bad managers out there, there are also bad parents and bad workers. Is it commonplace? No

What I find ridiculus is the assumption is that substandard childcare practices is the fault of the parent!!!!!

you wrote:

I take it you mean all childcare workers have the power to protect children? Am I right?
Because in my opinion "you" should refer to parents aswell

Its also interesting to note that this post was origionally on rollercoaster many months ago!!! So I would really query her actual concern.

Nevyn

mia1 wrote: »

Okay you're a mod so maybe you have proof that the OP is a troll but I have reread that post a few times and I honestly do not see how everyone is viewing it as an attack on working parents! But we all view things differently i suppose depending on which side of the fence we're standing.

I have never had either of my two children in a creche so you are making assumptions. The post looked like a hit and run, I am glad now to see that it is not the case the celsy has posted again.

celsy wrote: »

Im sorry to all those offended by my opening post, this is pretty much the point i wanted to make, not to attack anyone as i know most just want the best.
To those who say why not go to the authorities and complain, I have made my views heard but to no avail.

* What am I now called - a troll, yeah it was my first post cause i just joined, what do you expect.

I am glad you came back and posted the above it pretty much means you are not a person trying to upset people. To what extent did you report what was happening?

Nevyn

axel rose wrote: »

Its also interesting to note that this post was origionally on rollercoaster many months ago!!! So I would really query her actual concern.

ok if anyone has any links they wish to forward to me on this, they would be greatly apericated.

axel rose

Unfortunately I have no idea how to do a search for a topic on that site. Its a really basic site but I remember it distinctly as it looks like she copied and pasted the OP.

Nevyn

Functionality wise it is an awful site I couldn't stand to use it and thats one of the reasons I lobbied for this one to be setup.

mia1

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have never had either of my two children in a creche so you are making assumptions.

I was not assuming anything about anyone Thaedydal.

If you are referring to my "other side of the fence" comment I meant I do not have children and therefore I can appreciate that those who do may read the OPs post differently to what I did.