NCT changes - tinted windows and noise

bigjohnny80

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tinted-windows-targeted-in-nct-crackdown-on-boy-racer-gangs-2017472.html

Quote from article:

'...Measures cracking down on dangerous tinted windows and exhaust manipulation are being introduced to the NCT this year as part of a national crack down.....The changes related to tinted windows were prompted by safety concerns, because studies have identified that night driving with tinted windows presents a disproportionate risk, compared with daytime driving. '

---

My opinion on it:

Really, it is about time. Apart from the legitimate safety concerns I am sick of these peoples careless driving, intimidating driving, and lack of appreciation of the seriousness of driving a car and the damage they do when not driven properly. (And yes I'm aware not all these people drive like that, but it is a higher proportion than the rest of the normal driving population)

Last night I was woken by some dude demonstrating the noise of his exhaust while simply parked outside our apartment block at 4 in the morning...really its mind boggling why you would want to do that?? I've no problems with modifications to cars (even though I personally think they look daft) however the clampdown on tints and exhausts is well overdue. I think this will make these people realise that driving is a serious responsibility which should be taken as such.

colm_mcm

I wouldn't mind some more details on the tinted window thing

What does a loud exhaust have to do with the safety and road worthiness of a car :rolleyes:

colm_mcm

hellboy99 wrote: »

What does a loud exhaust have to do with the safety and road worthiness of a car :rolleyes:

Nothing, but having no tax doesn't affect safety either.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Nothing, but having no tax doesn't affect safety either.

And paying tax does nothing for the state of most the roads either

colm_mcm

I suppose, exhaust noise is something they want to control and integrating it into the NCT is much cheaper and convenient than having a seperate test.

TestTransmission

The minister and Gaybo should be more concerned with tackling the education of drivers.The fact that someone can fail a pretty basic driving test and to be allowed back onto the road immediately is ridiculous.

And no,I havent got tinted windows or aftermarket big exhaust

Do they measure dB on idle ?

Car Mad

I presume it would be around 3.5k revs could be wrong though.Theres a lot of really loud cars on the road but nothing wrong with a straight through performance exhaust neither I hope there not too harsh on noise levels :eek: With a stainless steel mani decat and straight through mine would be up there and its not to make noise and piss people off its for performance

Owen

Big exhausts on small engined, low powered cars are retarded. Not only are you actually sapping power from your engine, because your car is making much more noise, you're actually announcing to the entire world just how slow your car is.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... (Finally, after 10 seconds, a change from first to second) ...Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Seriously. If you had something with a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds, and a throaty snarly raspy engine note, it would be impressive, and petrolheads everywhere would look to see what nice machine is making that lovely noise. But on anything else, it's just noise pollution, and it's fantastic that the NCT is clamping down on it.

mick.fr

"Tinted windows targeted in NCT crackdown on boy racer gangs"

What a ridiculous title that this journalist came up with just to explain there will be new rules with regards to tinted windows and exhaust noise levels...

Like if having tinted windows meant you are a boy racer...

Car Mad

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Big exhausts on small engined, low powered cars are retarded. Not only are you actually sapping power from your engine, because you car is making much more noise, you're actually announcing to the entire world just how slow your car is.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... (Finally, after 10 second, a change from first to second) ...Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Seriously. If you had something with a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds, and a throaty snarly raspy engine note, it would be impressive, and petrolheads everywhere would look to see what nice machine is making that lovely noise. But on anything else, it's just noise pollution, and it's fantastic that the NCT is clamping down on it.

I hope thats not a dig at me :eek:

biko

Even though heavy tint look chavy (yes, also on an Audi imo) it's the loud exhaust that'll keep you awake at night as the boy ricers tear up and down the local "strip".

daRobot

Magnus wrote: »

boy ricers

Spot on

I've 35% tints on mine, so hopefully i'll be ok. Never had a problem with night driving, but I can see how a lower tint level would restrict vision for sure. Limo tints (5%) being legal on the fronts here, had to change. It's dangerous.

The problem is with this though, is that it'll just be another thing that's changed for the NCT and then changed back. Exhausts can be changed easily, and tints can be removed and refitted for less then 100euro.

Hooch

daRobot wrote: »

I've 35% tints on mine, so hopefully i'll be ok.

70% of light must be able to pass through the front tint.

daRobot

nice guy always wrote: »

70% of light must be able to pass through the front tint.

That's not too bad, I can just get them changed for 30% tints in that case.

Seanieke

Just read the article this post relates to, two things from it....

Last week, Gay Byrne, chairman of the Road Safety Authority, revealed the country had managed to achieve the lowest number of road deaths since records began in 1959. A total of 241 people lost their lives on the country's roads in 2009.

Surely thats more to do with the fact half the country was sat on the couch last year, not out on the roads going to & from work???

Secondly...

Under the changes vehicles that are more than 10-years-old will, from June 2012, have to undergo an annual test.

You and I both know that to keep and "older" car on the road requires more looking after, more regular servicing. IMO these cars would therefore be better looked after = safer.

Seanieke

Seanieke wrote: »

Under the changes vehicles that are more than 10-years-old will, from June 2012, have to undergo an annual test.

You and I both know that to keep and "older" car on the road requires more looking after, more regular servicing. IMO these cars would therefore be better looked after = safer.

Money making racket is all it is. I agree with you, some 10 year old cars you will find are in a far better condition than some 4 year old cars.

daRobot

hellboy99 wrote: »

Money making racket is all it is. I agree with you, some 10 year old cars you will find are in a far better condition than some 4 year old cars.

Totally agree.

I get the whiff of a bit of motor industry concession in that rule.

Mc Love

I wonder how this will work with the vehicles that are not driven by "boy racers"? And that have privacy glass?

ScouseMouse

Some of the wallys flying around tallaght in their souped up cars are shameless.

They look like pratts, drive like pratts so must be pratts. Lying in bed at night, you can hear them driving up and down the road. They may not even be rallying their cars, but they can be heard for a mile in every direction and it does disturb you.

One ejit living opposite me rallied his souped up ibiza with loud exhaust and tinted windows every night. Then he smashed it. So now he has a - - - HONDA CIVIC.:rolleyes:


Hopefully they will get no mercy.

(now, waiting to be verbally attacked by "enthusiasts")

daRobot

Mc Love wrote: »

I wonder how this will work with the vehicles that are not driven by "boy racers"? And that have privacy glass?

It only matters for the front two windows and the windscreen, so you can have as dark as you want anywhere else.

biko

Isn't privacy glass just a middle age wording for window tinting anyway? Well, more "mirrory".

hi_im_fil

I think its a good idea to test these things in the NCT. It gives people who are into modified cars known limits that they can follow, and only buy parts that will allow their car to pass an NCT with the new limits. Its better than whats out there now with nobody really knowing what the limit is, and a gard being able to say an exhaust is too noisy just by listening to it.

JHMEG

The NCT manual hasn't been updated since 2004, so the tint and exhaust thing isn't in yet. Then again they've been talking about integrated ticketing for Dublin since 1996 and we still haven't got that either.

Matt Simis

Im concerned my 850CSi's exhaust may fail, any specifics on how they test? Are they comparing it to stock or an arbitrary figure?

I have both cats and the stock crossover (centre box), all thats changed (as the original rusted off, literally) is the back boxes. They are Magnaflow boxes, with sound deadening (ie not straight through pipes) but are considerably louder than stock (which cost like 2k).

tossy

Most people who modify there exhaust for performance reasons will just keep the standard one and put that back on for the NCT.

The headline of that article is a disgrace also,typical independent/evening herald tabloid nonsense.

colm_mcm

that'll teach them boy racer gangs

stevenmu

I have to confess, I don't see how removing tint from windows and making exhausts quieter will make idiots suddenly start driving properly. But I'm sure they know what they're doing.

Mycroft H

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Big exhausts on small engined, low powered cars are retarded. Not only are you actually sapping power from your engine, because your car is making much more noise, you're actually announcing to the entire world just how slow your car is.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa .... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... (Finally, after 10 seconds, a change from first to second) ...Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Seriously. If you had something with a 0-60 of 6.5 seconds, and a throaty snarly raspy engine note, it would be impressive, and petrolheads everywhere would look to see what nice machine is making that lovely noise. But on anything else, it's just noise pollution, and it's fantastic that the NCT is clamping down on it.

+1

Little 1.4 civics (and generally you can add any other car with a big exhaust under 2 liter into that catagory) with huge exhausts are not cool

While you think your making yourself look impressive you just look like twat.


Now the alfa v6....... thats a different story

Cosmo K

There are actually a couple of more 'interesting' changes to the NCT:

http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/MINISTER_FOR_TRANSPORT_ANNOUNCES_CHANGES_TO_THE_NATIONAL_CAR_TEST_(NCT).html

10. Dangerous Vehicle
New arrangements will apply when it is considered that a tested vehicle would be a danger to the public if driven. In such a case a “Fail Dangerous” notice will be affixed, and An Garda Siochana will be notified if the owner/presenter drives the vehicle from the centre. The use of a dangerously defective vehicle on a public road is an offence for which the driver and owner could be prosecuted with a fine of up to €2,000 and 5 penalty points on conviction and/or 3 months imprisonment.

11. Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate
The details of the Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate which must be presented at NCT will be compared to the vehicle. Any discrepancies will be notified to the owner/presenter and Vehicle Registration Unit. Even if the vehicle passes all other aspects of the test, a test certificate will not be issued until the discrepancies are corrected.

12. Cars over 30 years old
Cars registered on or after 1 January 1980 will be subject to the NCT. In this way older vehicles will be brought into the testing system year on year.

13. Requirement for Identification
The owner/presenter of the vehicle will be required to produce a driving licence or passport, and, if relevant, details of the garage/company on behalf of which the vehicle is presented.

Changes to the NCT with effect from June 2011:

21. Annual testing of vehicles over 10 years old
At present two thirds of cars aged 10 years and older presented for a test do not pass first time. These older vehicles are more likely to be involved in a collision. Almost half (47%) of collisions that occurred in 2007 involved vehicles that were 9 years old or more. From 1 June 2011 annual testing of cars over 10 years old will commence. Cars over 10 years old will be issued an annual certificate after this date.

http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/MINISTER_FOR_TRANSPORT_ANNOUNCES_CHANGES_TO_THE_NATIONAL_CAR_TEST_(NCT).html

The 47% figure they mention wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that there are more 10+ year old cars on the road than newer ones.

Cars that are 10 years old or more are "more likely to be involved in a collision", what the hell has this got to do with the NCT, that's just a ridiculous statement.

Who comes up with this crap :rolleyes:

kippy

daRobot wrote: »

Spot on

I've 35% tints on mine, so hopefully i'll be ok. Never had a problem with night driving, but I can see how a lower tint level would restrict vision for sure. Limo tints (5%) being legal on the fronts here, had to change. It's dangerous.

The problem is with this though, is that it'll just be another thing that's changed for the NCT and then changed back. Exhausts can be changed easily, and tints can be removed and refitted for less then 100euro.

Indeed but the people with 10 year old plus cars will need to be changing them on and off annually due to the new rules in relation to annual NCTs for 10 year old + cars.



I think its great these have both been added to the NCT.
I've no isses with people with "loud" exhausts at all, its when they are pricking around at late at night keeping or waking everyone up that I have the issue.

c4cat

hellboy99 wrote: »

What does a loud exhaust have to do with the safety and road worthiness of a car :rolleyes:

Its fecking annoying noise pollution, which most members of the public does not want to listen to

colm_mcm

hopefully they clamp down on Lexus lights and stickers in the future!

Absurdum

Dangerous driving is dangerous driving, this is nothing but populist nonsense.

GTE

hellboy99 wrote: »

What does a loud exhaust have to do with the safety and road worthiness of a car :rolleyes:

Safety of others, hearing damage would be the first thing that pops into my head.

Even some of the Dublin Buses and one or two types of Bus Eireann buses have extremely loud engines that cant not cause hearing damage to people at bus stops for example.

According to EU law, at work you should only be exposed to 87db for 8 hours a day before hearing damage becomes serious. The state of California I think have put a ban on exhaust systems that bring the noise over 95db. The exhausts they are trying to get rid of must be louder then this so keep that in mind.

For every 3db you go up the actual perceived volume doubles and the amount of time you can listen to it before the hearing damage is serious according to the EU halves. So from 8 hours at 87db it goes down to just over an hour at 95db.

An ordinary conversation is 60db. 90 db is 8 times as loud and 100db is 16 times as loud.

And I believe the EU have changed it recently to 85db for 8 hours.

Exhausts now are at crazy volumes and its a welcome initiative to get rid of the bloody things.

Whether it's window tints, loud exhausts, your plates not displaying the county above reg etc.... it's all nonsense. People are forgetting that the NCT was originally brought in to test the road worthiness of your car, ie. servere rust on the chassis, faulty brakes etc... it's not to check the "cosmetics of your car" :rolleyes:

GTE

hellboy99 wrote: »

Whether it's window tints, loud exhausts, your plates not displaying the county above reg etc.... it's all nonsense. People are forgetting that the NCT was originally brought in to test the road worthiness of your car, ie. servere rust on the chassis, faulty brakes etc... it's not to check the "cosmetics of your car" :rolleyes:

Well, you are wrong to say that. Its not checking the cosmetics at all. Its checking the viability with regards to the window and volume of the car with the exhaust. If that effects the aesthetics, tough.

I dont think anyone is forgetting what it was originally intended for. I think its a realisation that additional factors have to be considered as the the technology moves on. And they are additional factors, its not replacing any of the original checks that the NCT was created to do.

SIX PACK

hellboy99 wrote: »

What does a loud exhaust have to do with the safety and road worthiness of a car :rolleyes:

Noise pollution mate someone has to enforce those changes gardai have enough to be doing. personally Iv nothing against Noisy exhuasts but their is some idiots who drive around built up areas with really noisy exhuasts in 2nd gear foot to the floor... which just takes the piss altogether

But i do love the sound from a subaru engine they should be exempt from those new rules Lol
As for tinted windows they should be allowed to a certain tint % percentage

pajo1981

bbk wrote: »

For every 3db you go up the actual perceived volume doubles

Not true dude. You peceive sound logarithmically: 20dB sounds twice as loud as 10dB but requires 10 times the energy; 103db sounds 3% louder than 100dB but requires approx twice the energy.

and the amount of time you can listen to it before the hearing damage is serious according to the EU halves. So from 8 hours at 87db it goes down to just over an hour at 95db.

True, but because the energy levels double not the perception.

SpannerMonkey

i dont mind loud exhausts on an appropriate car (sports car )they are usually factory fitted but i hate them on boy racer jap cars they really get under my skin i mean why its just STUPID !! if you want a car that is faster buy one stop pretending. so i really welcome that law
as for window tints i agree with it as long as its not a all out ban as a lot of luxury cars have a light tint factory installed ,
i am in favour of heavy tints being banned

Johnny Utah

Money making racket. Joke!

Why don't we have an nct-type test for some of our crap roads, some of which resemble the surface of Mars with all the potholes and craters.

colm_mcm

how much profit do you reckon is made on a €50 NCT?

SIX PACK

SIX PACK wrote: »

Noise pollution mate someone has to enforce those changes gardai have enough to be doing. personally Iv nothing against Noisy exhuasts but their is some idiots who drive around built up areas with really noisy exhuasts in 2nd gear foot to the floor... which just takes the piss altogether

"Gardai have enough to be doing", like what ? No sign of any gardai out my way and since Xmas i've had to listen to quads, scramblers and mini motorbikes from 9 in the morning till late, day in day out :mad:.
When out driving now you need eyes in the back of your head as they're on the road with them all over the place or cutting out in front of you. There are one or two loud exhaust cars round here but at least I don't have to listen to them 24/7, seven days a week.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

how much profit do you reckon is made on a €50 NCT?

Obviously not enough seeing as the new crowd that have taken over wanted to charge €75 :rolleyes:

Cosmo K

hellboy99 wrote: »

Obviously not enough seeing as the new crowd that have taken over wanted to charge €75 :rolleyes:

Source?

Johnny Utah

colm_mcm wrote: »

how much profit do you reckon is made on a €50 NCT?

It's a captive market (ie. everyone has to do it) and they have the monopoly!

kippy

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It's a captive market (ie. everyone has to do it) and they have the monopoly!

Captive all right.
They're not doing too bad based on some of the figures I have seen!

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2529501;s=rollingnews.htm
Thats the most recent I can find.
Bear in mind that based on the fact that there will be far more "older" cars held onto in the next few years and that 10 year old cars will be subject to annual tests, wages of their staff dropping and the testing fee at the very least remain static, I cant see those profits dropping.

JHMEG

colm_mcm wrote: »

how much profit do you reckon is made on a €50 NCT?

80 pound.. that's what the fella who sold me the 8 inch exhaust for me twin cam told me.. its all a racket

GTE

pajo1981 wrote: »

Not true dude. You peceive sound logarithmically: 20dB sounds twice as loud as 10dB but requires 10 times the energy; 103db sounds 3% louder than 100dB but requires approx twice the energy.

True, but because the energy levels double not the perception.

Alright, "perceive" was the wrong word to use.

The point I was trying to make was that with every 3dB raise on the decibel meter that the NCT people may be using you get a doubling of sound intensity, what's hitting your ear drum.

Taking psychoacoustics out of it (ie the 10dB double) the main point was the objective change in sound intensity from 87dB to 95dB which is a 6.2ish fold increase in the sound intensity from being in your office to listening to one of those idiots with a stupid exhaust on a tiny engined car.

Psychoacoustics explains why so many youngsters listen to their iPod so loud and get tinnitus so early on in life and is probably the reason behind the exhaust as well.