Good mother?

LegacyUser

One of my friends is 25 and has a child of 7. She had the child in college, dropped out (the bf didn't stick around) and has been working since.

Now, perhaps I'm being harsh but everyone raves about what a great mother is and how amazing she is, and to be honest I don't see it. She loves the child and provides for her, but to me that's a given. I think she's done well to follow her chosen career path and not let her daughter hold her back, but I wouldn't nominate her for any mother of the year awards.

In fact sometimes I am actually concerned. One thing is she brings quite a few different men back, now I'm not a prude and it's not a big deal to do this but I find it a bad example for her little girl as she's rather obvious about it. A few times I've called around to her and she's sitting at the table with her fella eating breakfast in her dressing gown with the child there as well. Also, she goes out a good bit and does quite a lot of recreational drugs. Most of our friends say that's grand, and just because she's a mother doesn't mean she can't have fun. I disagree with them, obviously she can have fun, but I don't think it's very responsible to go out and take loads of drugs - what if god forbid something happened? I mean not only happened to her, as in a bad reaction, but if something happened to the child and she was in no fit state to get back to her?

I have tried bringing this up but the girl got very defensive and the rest of our friends backed her up so I didn't mention it again, but it makes me quite uncomfortable to see her doing it.

Now, I wouldn't say she was a bad mother, but in my mind bringing fellas back all the time and going out and getting off your t*ts most weekends isn't really great. Am I just old fashioned and prudish or does anyone see my point?

fasty

Unless the child is in danger, this is none of your business. Why do you care if people say she's a good mother and you disagree?

LegacyUser

fasty wrote: »

Unless the child is in danger, this is none of your business. Why do you care if people say she's a good mother and you disagree?

As i said, I'm sometimes concerned for the child for the reasons I've mentioned here and others, but other people seem to completely ignore these things. The child is not in danger, but I think she's exposed to stuff she shouldn't be at that age.

dearg lady

From what you've posted I don't see how the child is in any danger. I would suggest you mind your own business before you lose a friend! She's 25, she's allowed have fun, and while she might not be the perfect role model (who is btw??) you haven't described any particularly bad behaviour on her part.

Ickle Magoo

Unregistered wrote: »

The child is not in danger, but I think she's exposed to stuff she shouldn't be at that age.

I think your concern is admirable but misplaced. It really isn't for you to say what within the law is or is not acceptable for someone else's child to be exposed to.

chocgirl

OP the unfortunate thing about our society is that we tend to label mothers who have more to contend with than others as good mothers. If your friend is very young that may be why she's been grouped in that category.

I'd agree with you though a lot of what you've mentioned isn't ideal for a young child and will become less so as she gets a little bit older and understands more and more.

LegacyUser

chocgirl wrote: »

OP the unfortunate thing about our society is that we tend to label mothers who have more to contend with than others as good mothers. If your friend is very young that may be why she's been grouped in that category.

I'd agree with you though a lot of what you've mentioned isn't ideal for a young child and will become less so as she gets a little bit older and understands more and more.

That's how I feel. I think if she was 35 and married, people would be whispering about how inappropriate her behaviour was. I don't know why people expect so little from young mothers. She was old enough to have the child, she's old enough to be responsible and behave appropriately. Perhaps it isn't my business, but forgive me for being concerned about the child. I just don't think it is safe to have strange men staying the night with a little girl in the house. It's one thing for my friend to take the risk as a grown adult, but she has no idea what sort of people these guys are, and her child's sleeping in the next room. More than once her mother, who was minding the child, has rang her to come home because the child was sick, and she was too drunk/high/off her t*ts to do so. I just don't think it's fair to behave in that way when she has the child to consider. She acts like she has the right to party and have fun like everyone else, but she made the kid.

LegacyUser

She's an easy target and you are having a pop at her.

No she's not perfect but no parent is. Its very easy to judge when you are not a parent yourself which I am willing to bet you are not.

Back off and mind your own business. You are being very nosy and judgemental and I do not for one minute believe you are motivated by concern for the child.

Life is not neat and tidy with rigid and idealistic 'shoulds' and 'should nots'

This girl is probably more open about her love life and use of recreational drugs than she should be but believe me I know of plenty of two parent families with the big house, two cars, ballet lessons and posh schools who bang bags of coke and pills into themselves as soon as little Molly and Jack are in bed.

I dont condone that either but at least I've the sense to know its none of my business.

Im not sure what your motivation for your judgemental attitude to your friend is but its very nasty and unpleasant.

Wagon

Unregistered wrote: »

I just don't think it is safe to have strange men staying the night with a little girl in the house. It's one thing for my friend to take the risk as a grown adult, but she has no idea what sort of people these guys are, and her child's sleeping in the next room.

I understand your concern about that.

More than once her mother, who was minding the child, has rang her to come home because the child was sick, and she was too drunk/high/off her t*ts to do so.

Poor show from her there. That's pretty crap parenting.

I just don't think it's fair to behave in that way when she has the child to consider. She acts like she has the right to party and have fun like everyone else, but she made the kid.

She has the right to have fun, but you do have a point.

I think you're going over the "what if" scenarios in your head a lot. Like, what if some guy is dangerous, what if he's violent. I agree that you don't really know someone on a one night stand, which is what im assuming these are. So i do completely see where you're coming from.

But that said, she's the mother and it's her decision what she wants to do. It's not going to do you any favours trying to tell her if she gets defensive about it. All you can do is trust she knows what she's doing. But unless you want to lose your mate, let it go. There is really nothing you can do.

elsy

I don't know how any of u can think its ok to be taking drugs when your parent i had my daughter when 23 and would never do this your child comes first how can u look after a child properly while out of your face! theres nothing wrong wit going out having fun but drugs and parenting is a major no no in my eyes!

~me~

tbh it seems like you're more annoyed at the fact that people are applauding her parenting skills than you are concerned about the child. maybe its just how your post read but it seemed that the opinions of your friends were your main priority and then the childs welfare was an afterthought?

also, i dont agree with the idea that people only commend her because shes a young mother and has had to overcome certain obstacles as a result. i had my girl at 17 and started college at that age too, have always put my child first, but still i get people assuming i'm a bad mother because of my age, not respect because ive had 'more to contend with'.

young mothers have alot to deal with that alot of older mothers dont. for example, after being given a prescription for my daughter (she was 1 at the time iirc) from her consultant, which is generally only for over three year olds unless stated otherwise, i went to get it filled and the woman said that its not for kids her age and i must have got it wrong or something, i told her the consultants name, what it was for, previous medication that wouldnt work etc. etc. and she still said 'no you dont understand he wouldnt have given her that', only after ringing the consultant would she fill the prescription.

now i understand that its her job to make sure the medication is correct and safe but im sure an older woman would have been listened to and given the prescription after the explanation, or at least would have been dealt with in a more respectful manner. and the blame wouldve been given to the consultant, not the mother!

younger mothers get it all the time and its generally only people who see them with their kids on a regular basis that actually see past their age and realise that they're a good mother, which her friends seem to have done. its her choice who she sleeps with and whether its good or bad parenting isn't really for you to decide. i personally wouldnt have any new men in the house when my child is there but plenty of other mothers, young or otherwise, do and its their decision. the drugs, as long as shes not taking them around the kids or bringing that scene near her children then again, it is up to her.

i think you should try to support her because she probabaly needs it. and maybe, instead of criticising her, if you think its becoming a problem for her you could try and establish why she feels the need to take drugs and sleep with multiple men.

also, you say that on more than one occassion her mother rang her to come home but she was too drunk or whatever- one) she made sure her child was in safe hands before she went out/ took drugs, so she wasnt doing it around her child and- two) surely its a good thing that she didnt go over to her child pissed/high? (i do know your point was more about her not being able to go over but i mean she got a sitter so she could go out and enjoy herself so i dont think she was being that irresponsible in the grand scheme of things).

i think she'd be quite disappointed to read this thread tbh. i know i would be if it was my friend.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I find any mistreatment of a child reprehensible - no blurry lines for me. At the same time I am not in that persons position and neither are you so we cannot understand fully from their perspective how they are feeling and your friend is obviously lonely or something.

But, if say for argument sake she is bring a different guy home every weekend thats 52 guys a year etc although the majority of guys are very nice normal people there is a preportion, lets say 1%, that are a danger of sorts - murderer, child molester etc and as the numbers of men entering her door increase so does the risk of encountering some of said 1%.

Have been in your position and all you can do is try to be a good friend, educate her a bit and keep an eye on her. I would discuss things in a light hearted conversational way and not make it personal. eg. talk about the interesting show about psychopathic men who were attractive and tricked their victims into bringing them home.

miec

She's an easy target and you are having a pop at her.

No she's not perfect but no parent is. Its very easy to judge when you are not a parent yourself which I am willing to bet you are not.

Back off and mind your own business. You are being very nosy and judgemental and I do not for one minute believe you are motivated by concern for the child.

Life is not neat and tidy with rigid and idealistic 'shoulds' and 'should nots'

This girl is probably more open about her love life and use of recreational drugs than she should be but believe me I know of plenty of two parent families with the big house, two cars, ballet lessons and posh schools who bang bags of coke and pills into themselves as soon as little Molly and Jack are in bed.

I dont condone that either but at least I've the sense to know its none of my business.

Im not sure what your motivation for your judgemental attitude to your friend is but its very nasty and unpleasant.

+ 1

Some friend you are, your post is petty, judgemental and mean spirited. You don't come across as concerned for the child's welfare but more of how she is viewed by others.

LegacyUser

thepink wrote: »

Hi OP,

I find any mistreatment of a child reprehensible - no blurry lines for me. At the same time I am not in that persons position and neither are you so we cannot understand fully from their perspective how they are feeling and your friend is obviously lonely or something.

But, if say for argument sake she is bring a different guy home every weekend thats 52 guys a year etc although the majority of guys are very nice normal people there is a preportion, lets say 1%, that are a danger of sorts - murderer, child molester etc and as the numbers of men entering her door increase so does the risk of encountering some of said 1%.

Have been in your position and all you can do is try to be a good friend, educate her a bit and keep an eye on her. I would discuss things in a light hearted conversational way and not make it personal. eg. talk about the interesting show about psychopathic men who were attractive and tricked their victims into bringing them home.

Well, I am in a very similar position actually, I have a little fella of my own and I had him during college. I didn't want to mention it because other friends have accused me of having clouded judgement because I'm a parent myself, but I think being a parent makes me more shocked by her behaviour. For example, I'd never even consider taking drugs - sure the chances of something 'bad' happening might be low but why put yourself in that position? I find it utterly selfish to even chance leaving my child without a mother for a bit of a buzz lasting a couple of hours max. I do sometimes go out and enjoy myself when my mam offers to babysit, but I have 2-3 drinks, don't get wasted, in case my child needs me, and also I don't want him to see me stumbling through the door. I think it sets a terrible example. I just think that when you have a child you need to accept that you can't go on living your life as you did before.

Motley Crue

fasty wrote: »

Unless the child is in danger, this is none of your business. Why do you care if people say she's a good mother and you disagree?

I disagree, we can't all go putting our heads in the sand and saying "out of sight out of mind"

I'm not saying we should know what Mr Johnson had for breakfast etc but I do think that the OP's concerns, whether she can do anything about them or not, are still justified. Its morally irresponsible and telling someone that "its none of your business" just doesn't close the book on the situation

What about, for example, all the others out there who can't have children....what about all the families desperate to save for IVF who just want to feel like a normal unit with a baby...and can't afford it...

One way the OP could help her friend might be to casually discuss the idea of safe sex. If the OP says that she herself is having a trouble with contraception and wants her friends advice then this friend might actually tell her about her experiences....and the OP could offer some advice in an indirect way

I honestly wish more people stuck their neck out, like the OP, in this day and age so that (without preaching or telling people they HAVE to do this) we could at least show people where they might be harming others and themselves and where they could make a difference in their own life

Danniboo

~me~ wrote: »

tbh it seems like you're more annoyed at the fact that people are applauding her parenting skills than you are concerned about the child. maybe its just how your post read but it seemed that the opinions of your friends were your main priority and then the childs welfare was an afterthought?

also, i dont agree with the idea that people only commend her because shes a young mother and has had to overcome certain obstacles as a result. i had my girl at 17 and started college at that age too, have always put my child first, but still i get people assuming i'm a bad mother because of my age, not respect because ive had 'more to contend with'.

young mothers have alot to deal with that alot of older mothers dont. for example, after being given a prescription for my daughter (she was 1 at the time iirc) from her consultant, which is generally only for over three year olds unless stated otherwise, i went to get it filled and the woman said that its not for kids her age and i must have got it wrong or something, i told her the consultants name, what it was for, previous medication that wouldnt work etc. etc. and she still said 'no you dont understand he wouldnt have given her that', only after ringing the consultant would she fill the prescription.

now i understand that its her job to make sure the medication is correct and safe but im sure an older woman would have been listened to and given the prescription after the explanation, or at least would have been dealt with in a more respectful manner. and the blame wouldve been given to the consultant, not the mother!

younger mothers get it all the time and its generally only people who see them with their kids on a regular basis that actually see past their age and realise that they're a good mother, which her friends seem to have done. its her choice who she sleeps with and whether its good or bad parenting isn't really for you to decide. i personally wouldnt have any new men in the house when my child is there but plenty of other mothers, young or otherwise, do and its their decision. the drugs, as long as shes not taking them around the kids or bringing that scene near her children then again, it is up to her.

i think you should try to support her because she probabaly needs it. and maybe, instead of criticising her, if you think its becoming a problem for her you could try and establish why she feels the need to take drugs and sleep with multiple men.

also, you say that on more than one occassion her mother rang her to come home but she was too drunk or whatever- one) she made sure her child was in safe hands before she went out/ took drugs, so she wasnt doing it around her child and- two) surely its a good thing that she didnt go over to her child pissed/high? (i do know your point was more about her not being able to go over but i mean she got a sitter so she could go out and enjoy herself so i dont think she was being that irresponsible in the grand scheme of things).

i think she'd be quite disappointed to read this thread tbh. i know i would be if it was my friend.

I actually can't believe I just read that so you think it's okay for people to go and off their head ever weekend what about when the child gets older if she's still doing it do you think thats a good example to be setting? You can say oh not near her chld all you like but she will find out one way or another if her mother continues to do this. God forbid the woman takes an overdose or something what about her daughther then? Your attitude to this makes me sick.

Nevyn

Yes it does seem that the child's home is not optimal and that many people would not choose to live thier life that way as it may impact morally on the child and the child will make less then wonderful choices as a result but unfortunatly the child is not considered to be at enough risk for the intervention of the state.

Intervention by family maybe the only way but end of the day you can't make the mother change her ways you can only be there for the child and show her a different way of living.

edvedfan

OP if this is genuine concern fro the child's safety then i applaud you, if however this is some veiled attempt at criticism of your friend, then that is completely different.

i understand completely where you are coming from however. I am twenty two and my sister is 28, a single Mother and has a beautiful three year old girl. On numerous occassions I have been babysitting and she has either not come home til six in the morning or brought guys she was seeing back to the house and fought with them downstairs while we were both upstairs. Eventually i went down to her and told her how inappropriate it was, can you imagine if her daughter woke up to find her Mam fighting with a stranger, how scary would it be?
As she has only brought a guy she was seeing back once or twice it's not that big of a deal. However, even when she does go out and doesn't get home til five in the morning, it means that she herself is wrecked the next day and spends the day grumpy and snapping at the little girl for leaving toys out etc.

A few weeks ago, i pointed this out to her and she realised it herself and now makes an effort to come home arounf half two or three in the morning so she wont be as tired and grumpy the next day and doesnt drink as much. Obviously it's really important that she gets her social life, but this way it doesn't come at the expense of her relationship with her daughter.

I am sure that your friend is mad about her daughter and loves her to bits if many people comment on her mothering skills, so maybe if brought up in a subtle way, she will realise that it's the not the safest environment to have her daughter grow up in.

~me~

Danniboo wrote: »

I actually can't believe I just read that so you think it's okay for people to go and off their head ever weekend what about when the child gets older if she's still doing it do you think thats a good example to be setting? You can say oh not near her chld all you like but she will find out one way or another if her mother continues to do this. God forbid the woman takes an overdose or something what about her daughther then? Your attitude to this makes me sick.

i never said its ok and i never said i agree with it. i just said that as long as she hasnt brought it near her child and her child hasnt suffered from it then it is up to her, ie. no one can tell her what she can or cant do when shes away from her kids. which is true, maybe you think its sick but its the truth. however wrong it is morally it is the mothers decision, wrong or otherwise. I also never said anything about it being a good example, i just stated that she seems to be taking some responsibility, giving her to the mother is the best of two evils.

Danniboo

~me~ wrote: »

i never said its ok and i never said i agree with it. i just said that as long as she hasnt brought it near her child and her child hasnt suffered from it then it is up to her, ie. no one can tell her what she can or cant do when shes away from her kids. which is true, maybe you think its sick but its the truth. however wrong it is morally it is the mothers decision, wrong or otherwise. I also never said anything about it being a good example, i just stated that she seems to be taking some responsibility, giving her to the mother is the best of two evils.

You're basically defending her actions so long as she's not doing it around her kids its up to her, as if shes not doing any harm. So when her daughter turns 16 and gets involved in drugs what is the mother going to say? This attitude of out of sight out of mind is why society is gone to the dogs. If she was just drunk on the occassion her child was sick she could have arranged to go home, she just didn't want her mother to see her on drugs. So your definition of responsibility is that she was good enough to let someone mind the child while she gets off her head, your ideas of being responsible leave a lot to be desired.

denhaagenite

I have to agree with you that some young "mothers" get far too much praise. It's very easy to get up the duff, they really don't need any applause for that. About half the population of the world can manage it and if people carry on acting like single mothers, whether they have one child or multiple children, without the means or the aptitude to support them and raise them properly is a good thing then god help the taxpayer, not to mention the poor kids. Parenthood is a privilege- not a right. Just makes my blood boil. I could tell you what I think should be done with them but I think that might provoke a whole different argument ;p.

But as stated already, you have to weigh up the pros and cons of her being in care and being with her mother- which do you think would be in her best interests?

If you are concerned about the child I think the only thing you can really do is be more supportive of the mother. Try and help her to find something other than drink and drugs to get her through the weekend. If you're REALLY concerned, have a word with her parents. I'm sure if she didn't have a free babysitter at her disposal things might be a bit different.

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

You're basically defending her actions so long as she's not doing it around her kids its up to her, as if shes not doing any harm. So when her daughter turns 16 and gets involved in drugs what is the mother going to say? This attitude of out of sight out of mind is why society is gone to the dogs.

I am a single parent. I go out. I leave my child with a responsible sitter. Sometimes I go out and get carried away and might have too much to drink or might even partake in a bit of smoking. Rarely but it does happen.
If my daughter were to get sick and I came home pished out of my head, would that make me a bad parent? For letting my child see me in that state? If I stayed away, would it be better or worse?
Sometimes people go overboard without meaning to. I'm sure most people have. I agree with the other poster in so far as, so long as she left the child with a resposible adult, then she is doing ok. We can't live our lives based on "what if" or we'd never live at all.

I don't agree with the bringing home random men thing when the child is there. Not something I would do personally but having said that I have brought random men home when my daughter was away so I can't judge the girl for that aspect of it.

I too am usually hungover and slightly grumpy on the day after a night out. I'm also tired and grumpy after a bad day at work or the day before I get my period. I'm human.


As for people saying she's a good mother. I find criticism is doled out much quicker than praise. The girl must be doing something right.

Like I said, I go out a lot, I party, I have fun. I had my daughter young and I am bringing her up well. I work hard and I adore my child. I am a fantastic mother but I am human and I act like it. I make mistakes. We all do.

If you are truly this girls friend then stop being so catty and talk to her genuinely about it.If this doesn't work and you are so concerned about the child, offer to babysit, take her overnight so she won't be subject to what you so vehemently object to. Not for the mothers sake, but for the childs.

Danniboo

ash23 wrote: »

I am a single parent. I go out. I leave my child with a responsible sitter. Sometimes I go out and get carried away and might have too much to drink or might even partake in a bit of smoking. Rarely but it does happen.
If my daughter were to get sick and I came home pished out of my head, would that make me a bad parent? For letting my child see me in that state? If I stayed away, would it be better or worse?
Sometimes people go overboard without meaning to. I'm sure most people have. I agree with the other poster in so far as, so long as she left the child with a resposible adult, then she is doing ok. We can't live our lives based on "what if" or we'd never live at all.

I don't agree with the bringing home random men thing when the child is there. Not something I would do personally but having said that I have brought random men home when my daughter was away so I can't judge the girl for that aspect of it.

I too am usually hungover and slightly grumpy on the day after a night out. I'm also tired and grumpy after a bad day at work or the day before I get my period. I'm human.


As for people saying she's a good mother. I find criticism is doled out much quicker than praise. The girl must be doing something right.

Like I said, I go out a lot, I party, I have fun. I had my daughter young and I am bringing her up well. I work hard and I adore my child. I am a fantastic mother but I am human and I act like it. I make mistakes. We all do.

If you are truly this girls friend then stop being so catty and talk to her genuinely about it.If this doesn't work and you are so concerned about the child, offer to babysit, take her overnight so she won't be subject to what you so vehemently object to. Not for the mothers sake, but for the childs.

Ash I don't know if you meant to quote me there, you're dead right we are all entitled to have lives and let our hair down. but I simply can't understand people saying there's nothing wrong with a young mother going out and getting off her head on drugs every weekend.

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

Ash I don't know if you meant to quote me there, you're dead right we are all entitled to have lives and let our hair down. but I simply can't understand people saying there's nothing wrong with a young mother going out and getting off her head on drugs every weekend.

Nothing wrong when she has left her daughter with a responsible adult imo.
Op never said anythign about every weekend. Just that she does it regularly.
I don't see a huge difference as to whether a person goes out and takes e/coke or gets paralytic drunk in terms of being a parent. Much the same effect in terms of whether you are able to mind your kids or not.

ash23

denhaagenite wrote: »

I have to agree with you that some young "mothers" get far too much praise. It's very easy to get up the duff, they really don't need any applause for that. About half the population of the world can manage it and if people carry on acting like single mothers, whether they have one child or multiple children, without the means or the aptitude to support them and raise them properly is a good thing then god help the taxpayer, not to mention the poor kids. Parenthood is a privilege- not a right. Just makes my blood boil. I could tell you what I think should be done with them but I think that might provoke a whole different argument ;p.

But as stated already, you have to weigh up the pros and cons of her being in care and being with her mother- which do you think would be in her best interests?

If you are concerned about the child I think the only thing you can really do is be more supportive of the mother. Try and help her to find something other than drink and drugs to get her through the weekend. If you're REALLY concerned, have a word with her parents. I'm sure if she didn't have a free babysitter at her disposal things might be a bit different.

What way exactly do us single mothers act? Elaborate please. I'm intrigued to know what way "we" act.

And what should be done with "us"?

Talk about generalising!

Cheap Thrills!

Hey Op,

Why dont you take the little girl over to yours overnight some Sat or fri night. You can collect her at about 6 in the evening (to let your friend get ready in peace) and take her overnight and maybe bring her to a softplay area in the morning and bring her back at about 12 when any visitors are offside.

I think your friend would be inclined to attach a lot more weight to your opinion if you did this. Every Mother needs help and will do anything to please a quality babysitter.

This way you can start to attach conditions to your babysitting as in:
No strange men in the house while daughter is there.
No drugs to the extent that she is not capable of looking after the daughter properly the next day, say after 12 o clock.

Parenting is extremely hard, I think the reason your friends are kind of dismissing your opinion is that maybe you are being a teeny bit unrealistic.

No parent is perfect but you can influence her much more effectively by helping her rather than criticising her.

Danniboo

ash23 wrote: »

Nothing wrong when she has left her daughter with a responsible adult imo.
Op never said anythign about every weekend. Just that she does it regularly.
I don't see a huge difference as to whether a person goes out and takes e/coke or gets paralytic drunk in terms of being a parent. Much the same effect in terms of whether you are able to mind your kids or not.

I do to be honest I see a big difference I wouldn't like to hear about my mother being down town coked off her head or off her head on E's I think its a really really bad example. Put it this way if you heard your son/daughter was down the town in an awful state after taking drugs, would you still have the same take on things.

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

I do to be honest I see a big difference I wouldn't like to hear about my mother being down town coked off her head or off her head on E's I think its a really really bad example. Put it this way if you heard your son/daughter was down the town in an awful state after taking drugs, would you still have the same take on things.

OPs concern is for the child, not the mother. If I heard my child were paralytically drunk or taking too many recreational drugs to the point that they had lost their inhibitions or passed out, then my concern would be for them and their health. Not what the neighbours thought.

I wouldn't like to hear about my mum doing anything to excess be that drinking or taking drugs. For her, not for the "shame" aspect of it.

denhaagenite

ash23 wrote: »

What way exactly do us single mothers act? Elaborate please. I'm intrigued to know what way "we" act.

And what should be done with "us"?

Talk about generalising!

Do you live off the state and others generosity when you're perfectly capable of working and paying for all their needs and babysitters if necessary? This is what I'm referring to, and I think you're well aware of that.

People who have children knowing that they can't provide for them aren't proper parents in my book. 15/ 20/ 25 it doesn't matter, there should not be extra praise for someone who got caught out. The praise should be reserved for people who carefully plan, or wait until the time is right, or put their kids ahead of themselves- which definitely means not drinking to excess or doing drugs. Or bringing strange men home for one night stands!! You don't get a night off when you have children, whether there is a babysitter present or not. It is YOUR responsibility to look after your child, all the time. You can leave them in the care of someone else, absolutely, but it will be your job to come home in the middle of the night if they are sick until they are 18.

I'm not talking about rape victims, or broken families etc etc, use a bit of common sense.

Danniboo

ash23 wrote: »

OPs concern is for the child, not the mother. If I heard my child were paralytically drunk or taking too many recreational drugs to the point that they had lost their inhibitions or passed out, then my concern would be for them and their health. Not what the neighbours thought.

I wouldn't like to hear about my mum doing anything to excess be that drinking or taking drugs. For her, not for the "shame" aspect of it.

Exactly so how is the mother going to sit her child down and tell her not to be taken drugs or how bad they are for you, when she's being doing it herself.

ash23

denhaagenite wrote: »

Do you live off the state and others generosity when you're perfectly capable of working and paying for all their needs and babysitters if necessary? This is what I'm referring to, and I think you're well aware of that.

No I don't. But I am a single parent and I did get by on benefits for a while.

People who have children knowing that they can't provide for them aren't proper parents in my book. 15/ 20/ 25 it doesn't matter, there should not be extra praise for someone who got caught out.

So I'm not a "proper" parent? How unbelievably condescending.But I would be a proper parent had I aborted my daughter and waited until I met Mr. Right (which I thought I did and then HE left so I may have planned my child and still ended up a single parent).

The praise should be reserved for people who carefully plan, or wait until the time is right, or put their kids ahead of themselves- which definitely means not drinking to excess or doing drugs. Or bringing strange men home for one night stands!! You don't get a night off when you have children, whether there is a babysitter present or not. It is YOUR responsibility to look after your child, all the time. You can leave them in the care of someone else, absolutely, but it will be your job to come home in the middle of the night if they are sick until they are 18.

Absolute BS!!! What about parents who are separated and the have 50/50 custody. Should both refrain from ever drinking in case they are needed or should they trust that the children are safe in another persons care? Should a parent who works abroad never take a drink just in case? I drink to excess when I don't have my daughter. I bring men home when I don't have my daughter. There's a difference between a "babysitter" and a relative or other parent minding the child overnight.

I'm not talking about rape victims, or broken families etc etc, use a bit of common sense.

So it's ok to be a stoner if your husband left you but if you got pregnant at a young age and took on the responsibility of being a parent then you aren't a "proper" parent.
I know people who planned their kids who are much much worse parents than I am. Much worse.

~me~

Danniboo wrote: »

You're basically defending her actions so long as she's not doing it around her kids its up to her, as if shes not doing any harm. So when her daughter turns 16 and gets involved in drugs what is the mother going to say? This attitude of out of sight out of mind is why society is gone to the dogs. If she was just drunk on the occassion her child was sick she could have arranged to go home, she just didn't want her mother to see her on drugs. So your definition of responsibility is that she was good enough to let someone mind the child while she gets off her head, your ideas of being responsible leave a lot to be desired.

i'd appreciate if you didnt tell me what i am or am not defending. i never once defended her actions, i actually dont agree with it at all but the OP expressed concern for the child (even if it did seem to be an afterthought) and i simply stated that the child is not at harm, the mother is, but as shes away from her child it is her decision as its not directly harming her child (yet). regardless of the morals or ethics or what you or i may think abnout it, it is her desision, thats all i said.

and while i dont think its responsible to do drugs, i do appreciate that she makes sure her child is looked after (being responsible). not once did i say her drug taking was responsible nor did i condone it, i just know id rather the child was looked after by its grandmother while the mother did drugs elsewhere than if the child was subjected to drug use in the home. obviously(i didnt think it needed to be pointed out but evidently it does) a drug free mother is best but if the mother insists on taking drugs then it is the lesser of two evils and is, whether you want to admit it or not, the more responsible option.

also you cant just assume she didnt want her mam to see her on drugs, she may have made the decision based on her child, she may have decided she would let a sober and responsible person look after her daughter rather than a pissed/high mother, which again is the lesser of two evils. and responsible.

I was simply giving a different perspective to what seemed to be turning into a 'lets all immediately criticise and pass judgement on this single mother when we dont even know her' thread, and she hasnt even got a chance to defend herself or her actions- not that she should- because her friend started the thread behind her back. there was no need to shoot the messenger, i just told the truth, you were the one who took it as me defending her. at the end of the day it is the mothers decision, she can tell her whatever she wants but she cant physically force her to stop.

I didnt feel the need to go into the dangers/morals/ethics of drugs as we are all mature enough to know them at this stage but I also thought we were mature enough to know that life isn't always black and white and sometimes parents do make mistakes and don't realise the potential harm in what they're doing, but she does seem to be trying her best and making responsible enough choices for her child and if its a case of evil existing in the girls life, I personally would prefer the lesser of the two (by making sure the child isn't around).

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

Exactly so how is the mother going to sit her child down and tell her not to be taken drugs or how bad they are for you, when she's being doing it herself.

Maybe she'll learn in time.
I know that I will be telling my daughter that a drink is fine, a few is fine. But not to get so drunk that she isn't in control as that is when bad things can happen. And I've been there so I do know what I'm talking about.
Just as I'll get a close friend who was heavily into drugs in his late teens to talk about drugs with her. I can't as I only ever tried pills once when I was much younger and I've smoked hash maybe 3 times in my life. I don't believe in "just say no". Just say no to sex, drugs, drink etc. It's unrealistic and unobtainable. I'd rather be open and honest with her.
Thats my parenting approach anyway.
By the time the child is old enough I doubt the mother will still be partying hard. I'm guessing she's in her early 20s. Most people grow out of experimenting with drugs, sleeping around etc.

~me~

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with everything ash23 has said.

denhaagenite

ash23 wrote: »

No I don't. But I am a single parent and I did get by on benefits for a while.



So I'm not a "proper" parent? How unbelievably condescending.But I would be a proper parent had I aborted my daughter and waited until I met Mr. Right (which I thought I did and then HE left so I may have planned my child and still ended up a single parent).



Absolute BS!!! What about parents who are separated and the have 50/50 custody. Should both refrain from ever drinking in case they are needed or should they trust that the children are safe in another persons care? Should a parent who works abroad never take a drink just in case? I drink to excess when I don't have my daughter. I bring men home when I don't have my daughter. There's a difference between a "babysitter" and a relative or other parent minding the child overnight.



So it's ok to be a stoner if your husband left you but if you got pregnant at a young age and took on the responsibility of being a parent then you aren't a "proper" parent.
I know people who planned their kids who are much much worse parents than I am. Much worse.

I think you're just ranting now. I'm saying it's absolutely fine to leave your child with someone responsible when you're out, but if that person calls you to tell you that your child needs you then you have to be there and be fit to look after the child's needs.

There's nothing wrong with getting by on benefits- but spending money meant for your child on drink and drugs is not on. In case you jump down my throat, of course you're entitled to a night out, but be reasonable.

This woman doesn't bring men home while her child is out of the house, the child is there and can see what is going on. Are you honestly telling me you think this won't affect the child?

I think you're taking this way too personally, and it's not helping the OP. Nobody is talking about you- well done for being a good mother, but you're putting words in my mouth and I don't think it's practical.

Danniboo

~me~ wrote: »

i'd appreciate if you didnt tell me what i am or am not defending. i never once defended her actions, i actually dont agree with it at all but the OP expressed concern for the child (even if it did seem to be an afterthought) and i simply stated that the child is not at harm, the mother is, but as shes away from her child it is her decision as its not directly harming her child (yet). regardless of the morals or ethics or what you or i may think abnout it, it is her desision, thats all i said.

and while i dont think its responsible to do drugs, i do appreciate that she makes sure her child is looked after (being responsible). not once did i say her drug taking was responsible nor did i condone it, i just know id rather the child was looked after by its grandmother while the mother did drugs elsewhere than if the child was subjected to drug use in the home. obviously(i didnt think it needed to be pointed out but evidently it does) a drug free mother is best but if the mother insists on taking drugs then it is the lesser of two evils and is, whether you want to admit it or not, the more responsible option.

also you cant just assume she didnt want her mam to see her on drugs, she may have made the decision based on her child, she may have decided she would let a sober and responsible person look after her daughter rather than a pissed/high mother, which again is the lesser of two evils. and responsible.

I was simply giving a different perspective to what seemed to be turning into a 'lets all immediately criticise and pass judgement on this single mother when we dont even know her' thread, and she hasnt even got a chance to defend herself or her actions- not that she should- because her friend started the thread behind her back. there was no need to shoot the messenger, i just told the truth, you were the one who took it as me defending her. at the end of the day it is the mothers decision, she can tell her whatever she wants but she cant physically force her to stop.

I didnt feel the need to go into the dangers/morals/ethics of drugs as we are all mature enough to know them at this stage but I also thought we were mature enough to know that life isn't always black and white and sometimes parents do make mistakes and don't realise the potential harm in what they're doing, but she does seem to be trying her best and making responsible enough choices for her child and if its a case of evil existing in the girls life, I personally would prefer the lesser of the two (by making sure the child isn't around).

Yes we are all mature enough which is besides the point its not about You or Me it's her child she should be thinking of her child is not mature enough nor will she be for many years to come to decide how wrong it is to take drugs. The child is issue here can you not understand that.

You're not a messenger, you're a mother also who has this whole blazee attitude about what makes a good mother. A good mother doesn't behave like this and deserve to be put on a pedestal when she's too out of it to come home when her child is sick, this is where the OPs frustration is coming from and I completely understand it.

Do you think Social Services would think this is perfectly normal acceptable behaviour. For god sake I have a younger sister and I would hang my head in shame if I set such a disgraceful example for her.

Danniboo

~me~ wrote: »

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with everything ash23 has said.

Eh you just said to me you don't condone the drug taking, ash said that she can't see the big deal between drinking and taking drugs so which is it????

ash23

denhaagenite wrote: »

I think you're just ranting now. I'm saying it's absolutely fine to leave your child with someone responsible when you're out, but if that person calls you to tell you that your child needs you then you have to be there and be fit to look after the child's needs.

There's nothing wrong with getting by on benefits- but spending money meant for your child on drink and drugs is not on. In case you jump down my throat, of course you're entitled to a night out, but be reasonable.

This woman doesn't bring men home while her child is out of the house, the child is there and can see what is going on. Are you honestly telling me you think this won't affect the child?

I think you're taking this way too personally, and it's not helping the OP. Nobody is talking about you- well done for being a good mother, but you're putting words in my mouth and I don't think it's practical.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. Your initial post stated

I have to agree with you that some young "mothers" get far too much praise. It's very easy to get up the duff, they really don't need any applause for that. About half the population of the world can manage it and if people carry on acting like single mothers, whether they have one child or multiple children, without the means or the aptitude to support them and raise them properly is a good thing then god help the taxpayer, not to mention the poor kids.

You also said that people who "get caught out" are not proper parents. Your words.By your gross generalisations you've insulted anyone who has had an unplanned pregnancy and also lumped all single parent into one catagory be they adequate parents or not.

Perhaps you need to rephrase your posts.

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

Eh you just said to me you don't condone the drug taking, ash said that she can't see the big deal between drinking and taking drugs so which is it????

Not what I said at all. I said I don't see the difference in terms of being capable of parenting between me going out and getting pis*ed or Mary down the road going out and getting high. Either way, neither of us are able to mind our children if something happens.
I can hardly condemn the OPs friend for going out and getting wasted and not being able to look after the child when something unexpected happened when I have been in that position before, albeit drink related. I also know many married women who would go out and get drunk too, and many married men.

Nevyn

denhaagenite you must learn not to generalise that all single mothers are x or y, frankly you are insulting a lot of good parents out there who are single mothers and do not carry on as you have described. You are making assumptions.

ash23 they were wrong to make such sweeping statement but please do not derail the thread.

denhaagenite

ash23 wrote: »

Perhaps you need to rephrase your posts.

Perhaps you need to re- read them.

denhaagenite wrote: »

If people carry on acting like single mothers, whether they have one child or multiple children, without the means or the aptitude to support them and raise them properly is a good thingthen god help the taxpayer, not to mention the poor kids.

If you want to have children, wait until you've grown out of the staying out all night/ one night stand/ drinking to excess/ drug taking stage. If you fall pregnant unexpectedly then either wave goodbye to that stage altogether or choose not to have the child (abortion/adoption whatever). Just because you chose to have your child doesn't make you more responsible or grown up than someone who has an abortion because they think they can't handle it.

denhaagenite

Apologies, I am trying to explain myself but it's falling on deaf ears. I'm not saying all single mothers are bad mothers. I am saying that we shouldn't give people a clap if they do get caught out. Ya life might be harder, but it doesn't automatically make them better (or worse!) parents than anyone else.

ash23

denhaagenite wrote: »

Perhaps you need to re- read them.



If you want to have children, wait until you've grown out of the staying out all night/ one night stand/ drinking to excess/ drug taking stage. If you fall pregnant unexpectedly then either wave goodbye to that stage altogether or choose not to have the child (abortion/adoption whatever). Just because you chose to have your child doesn't make you more responsible or grown up than someone who has an abortion because they think they can't handle it.

And just because I've had a child doesn't mean my sex life, social life etc has to go out the window.

Should a married parent be sober from 30-48 because they had a child?
Would you condemn a married couple who went to a wedding, leaving the kids with their mother and got totally hammered drunk?

Nevyn

This is the last warning on this, you are both off topic and I will issues bans, take it to humanities.

~me~

i dont have any attitude to what makes a good mother. i know i'm a good mother and i dont evaluate whether anyone else is a good mother or not.

i didnt say whether shes a good mother or not because its not my place to say, i don't even know the woman so i'm not going to pass judgement on her parenting abilities. she could have the most talented, intelligent, happy child in the world which would indicate that shes a "good" mother, yet she does drugs, which would indicate that shes a "bad mother"- neither of these things determine her as a mother on the whole. they are just one good or bad aspects of her life and i'm not going to judge the woman on some mistakes shes made in what is probably a tough time for her.

and yes she should be thinking of her childs future, i never disputed that, i never said its ideal for a mother to be taking drugs. she makes mistakes, as i'm sure you do. i didnt condone these mistakes, i didnt say they were acceptable, i said it is her choice, which it is. that the OP can tell her the error of her ways but its the mothers choice and nobody can stop her while the child is safe- which she is. if her child is in danger then SS will get involved and rightly so. you seem to think that by me accepting that its the mothers choice that i'm somehow accepting its right- im not.

and yes the child is the issue- and the child has been left in capable hands. not ideal, not "right" but she is safe. the OP expressed concerns for the childs welfare and the child is safe. i never said she always will be, i never said shes lucky that her mother does drugs or any other spin you wanna take on it, i just said the child is being looked after.

(didnt see above post til afterwards,will remove if needed)

Danniboo

ash23 wrote: »

Not what I said at all. I said I don't see the difference in terms of being capable of parenting between me going out and getting pis*ed or Mary down the road going out and getting high. Either way, neither of us are able to mind our children if something happens.
I can hardly condemn the OPs friend for going out and getting wasted and not being able to look after the child when something unexpected happened when I have been in that position before, albeit drink related. I also know many married women who would go out and get drunk too, and many married men.

Would hearing your child is sick not sober you up a bit after a few drinks and would you want to be there regardless if you were capable of looking after her or not. Of course there's a difference you can hardly arrive back off your head on drugs and your eyes in the back of your head to your mother and your child.

joes girls

OP just hang around, if things go bad for this friend of yours, other friends could disappear very fast.
Life as a lone-parent can be a very lonely one, especially at night once you have put the kids to bed and it's then just you. So i can understand her want to get out at weekends.
I feel your a good friend to worry about her, but the way her life goes is up to her.
So just be there, you dont know the day she might need you.

ash23

Danniboo wrote: »

Would hearing your child is sick not sober you up a bit after a few drinks and would you want to be there regardless if you were capable of looking after her or not. Of course there's a difference you can hardly arrive back off your head on drugs and your eyes in the back of your head to your mother and your child.

You can sober up from drugs as much as you can sober up from drink if there aren't large quantities taken.
It's only when it's overdone that it becomes impossible to regain control of your faculties.

denhaagenite

The OP is saying it's wrong that very little is expected of young mothers and I have to agree with her. It's insulting to good young mothers. BUT I am also saying that while the child is probably not receiving the best upbringing in the world, getting social services involved is much too extreme for this situation.

She could be in danger, absolutely. Who knows what kind of man she could be bringing back when she's under the influence. An accident could happen after the babysitter has left and the mother could be too out of it to realise. It's a long shot but it's completely possible. The approach with this concern has to be a very careful one. Spend more time with both of them, and your son aswell, and as I said if you are really concerned then take it from there.

Danniboo

~me~ wrote: »

i dont have any attitude to what makes a good mother. i know i'm a good mother and i dont evaluate whether anyone else is a good mother or not.

i didnt say whether shes a good mother or not because its not my place to say, i don't even know the woman so i'm not going to pass judgement on her parenting abilities. she could have the most talented, intelligent, happy child in the world which would indicate that shes a "good" mother, yet she does drugs, which would indicate that shes a "bad mother"- neither of these things determine her as a mother on the whole. they are just one good or bad aspects of her life and i'm not going to judge the woman on some mistakes shes made in what is probably a tough time for her.

and yes she should be thinking of her childs future, i never disputed that, i never said its ideal for a mother to be taking drugs. she makes mistakes, as i'm sure you do. i didnt condone these mistakes, i didnt say they were acceptable, i said it is her choice, which it is. that the OP can tell her the error of her ways but its the mothers choice and nobody can stop her while the child is safe- which she is. if her child is in danger then SS will get involved and rightly so. you seem to think that by me accepting that its the mothers choice that i'm somehow accepting its right- im not.

and yes the child is the issue- and the child has been left in capable hands. not ideal, not "right" but she is safe. the OP expressed concerns for the childs welfare and the child is safe. i never said she always will be, i never said shes lucky that her mother does drugs or any other spin you wanna take on it, i just said the child is being looked after.

(didnt see above post til afterwards,will remove if needed)

A tough time for her, its a tough time for her child. What on earth have my mistakes got to with anything, and I can tell you here and now my mistakes have never had a negative influence on people in my life and I have never been into drugs. You don't get to say well there's this aspect of me where I get f****d off my head every weekend but yet I leave her with my child. You're either a good role model and parent or your not.

denhaagenite

ash23 wrote: »

You can sober up from drugs as much as you can sober up from drink if there aren't large quantities taken.
It's only when it's overdone that it becomes impossible to regain control of your faculties.

But this is the whole issue, there have been times where this person HAS overdone it to a point where she can't regain control.