Spars destroying the city?

BraziliaNZ

I new it was bad and there were tonnes of them and they're unsightly... but this thread I found made me realise how much of a plague they are. Can something not be done about this?

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4795&highlight=shopfront&page=4

54kroc

Ha ha that link is great, what a bunch of whinging idiots.

bangersandmash

cork45 wrote: »

Ha ha that link is great, what a bunch of whinging idiots.

So I take it you're a fan of the aesthetics of Spar shop fronts then? Or you just couldn't give a damn about the environment in which you live, once your local Spar stocks Dutch Gold? :rolleyes:

Red_Marauder

I don't know what the Dutch Gold comment has to do with anything.

I don't have a problem with the signage in those images, especially since most of them are in very built up areas in the city centre and don't have nearly as significant an adverse architectural impact as some other structures in this city. Or even the fact that these shops their very selves are occupying what could be some very attractive buildings on our national thoroughfare (side by side with Dr Quirkey's). Surely signage is a rather tiny gripe in comparison with that, for example?

I imagine that a lot of people, like myself, just think that Dublin has far more serious, and longterm, architectural eyesores than its shop signs. To complain about these signs in light of that does actually seem a little petty

54kroc

bangersandmash wrote: »

So I take it you're a fan of the aesthetics of Spar shop fronts then? Or you just couldn't give a damn about the environment in which you live, once your local Spar stocks Dutch Gold? :rolleyes:

I was just about to reply to your post but Red_Marauder's post sum's it all up tbh.

GLaDOS

They're signs... I don't get the fuss?

spurious

The fuss is about the fact that Dublin City Council have an agreed set of rules to do with signage but appear to not enforce them, or enforce them in a haphazard way.

Have you seen any of the promised 'hundreds' of JC Decaux signs being removed in exchange for those hideous one legged Metropoles? Perhaps they forgot about that in DCC.

It's symptomatic of the sloppy attitude to what have been previously rightly described as bigger eyesores.

Rb

DCC is about as incompetent as a city council could get.

xoxyx

If it's true, I find it very odd that Spar's signs are unauthorised. It's the sign for Spar. That's what they put in front of their shop. It's their logo. What did anyone think they'd put up??
If it's really not authorised and it's gone this far, then there are a whole pile of people whose heads should roll (or, at least, tilt over sideways a bit) before Spar gets allocated any blame.

Jay D

bangersandmash wrote: »

So I take it you're a fan of the aesthetics of Spar shop fronts then? Or you just couldn't give a damn about the environment in which you live, once your local Spar stocks Dutch Gold? :rolleyes:

a fine example of the dunce kind who try to act posh/respectable/intelligent, etc., but have little or limited life experience.

Just because someone finds it laughable people can moan about a chain of shops and even refer to the environment,as if they are the bloody cause of global warming or something :rolleyes:

They are signs, get over it.

The End

Oh for the record, do you drink Dutch Gold Cork? I reckon it was quite a very good point that might hinder everything I just said if you did. [/sarcasm]

BendiBus

I think they are quite unsightly. They are cheap and tacky and contribute to whole streets looking cheap and tacky. But Spar are far from the only offenders. The worst for me (and I think it's on the referred thread too) was the Eurocycles huge plastic sign on South William St. Thankfully replaced with something better now.

Better signage (and better shopfronts in general - the theme of the Archiseek thread) would have the opposite effect and raise the tone of an area in a subtle but very real way.

It makes me angry that DCC doesn't seem concerned with enforcing it's own decisions.

Camarague

Jay D wrote: »

Just because someone finds it laughable people can moan about a chain of shops and even refer to the environment,as if they are the bloody cause of global warming or something :rolleyes:

They are signs, get over it.

The End

[/sarcasm]

It is an architecture forum. Architects are people who care about design. Hence the discussion of design on the architecture forum

Whatever you think of the signs, the fact that they deliberately skirt the rules with so-called "Temporary signage", is a pernicious tactic that should be stopped.

They are bringing down the appearance of OUR city.

Some of us care about our city and believe that the spread of gaudy signage is worth discussion.
And if you don't give a sh*t about the environment in which you live, that's your choice. But referring to those who care as 'whingers' is plain rude.

OK?

Coriolanus

While yes, in a perfect world, it'd be dealt with, DCC is criminally incompetent and I'd rather they spent what little time they actually work on more serious issues.
Of course, rather than pissing and moaning about it we could do something. Plenty of unemployed law grads out there, it's a pity this country has no real culture of pro-bono and charity work. In America you'd likely get an action group going to prosecute the offenders if the city wasn't enforcing it's own statutes.

je suis awesome

dublin is a kip, easily the most ugly capital i've been in, but has some great parts to it.

Sir Oxman

That thread over at archiseek was a very interesting read. Informative, entertaining and downright depressing.

Dublin City Centre is in bits with shít signage alone.

Having read the thread I can't see one mention of any of the spawning Spars/Londis's/Centras being fined over the blatant flouting of so-called planning laws.
These places seemingly sling up any old plastic sign some of them 'on a temporary basis' for years and years.

I remember being thereatened with '00s euro of a fine over a satellite dish on an apartment block years ago though.

Jay D

Camarague wrote: »

It is an architecture forum. Architects are people who care about design. Hence the discussion of design on the architecture forum

Whatever you think of the signs, the fact that they deliberately skirt the rules with so-called "Temporary signage", is a pernicious tactic that should be stopped.

They are bringing down the appearance of OUR city.

Some of us care about our city and believe that the spread of gaudy signage is worth discussion.
And if you don't give a sh*t about the environment in which you live, that's your choice. But referring to those who care as 'whingers' is plain rude.

OK?

Oh noes an innernet arguement....

Maybe you should set up a facebook page and demand 100,000 members in order to stop it. You'll feel your job is then done at least.

adamski8

they are quite ugly alright, yes they are "only signs" but they are everywhere in city and DCC should probably clamp down on them.
If the signs dont bother you good for you. While dublin isnt the prettiest city id prefer if they tried to improve it. It would benefit locals and tourists.

Carter96

Of all the things going on in Dublin and you feel this strongly about FCUCKING SPAR SIGNS!?! Think about it. :rolleyes:

Maybe in a perfect Dublin we could address 'gaudy signage' after we've addressed the important issues.

BraziliaNZ

Carter96 wrote: »

Of all the things going on in Dublin and you feel this strongly about FCUCKING SPAR SIGNS!?! Think about it. :rolleyes:

Maybe in a perfect Dublin we could address 'gaudy signage' after we've addressed the important issues.

well yes they look absolutely disgusting and they're all over the city centre. Absolutely tasteless. It reflects the people who live here, I don't see why they can't tone them done a bit. I have already written to DCC about this, but they never respond to anything I send to them.

Sir Oxman

Well, there is also the argument that millions has been spent on the city centre to improve and upgrade its image and yet another spar/centra/londis pops up and shoves a huge, gaudy sign on - no matter where it's located (street/building type etc)
The point of the thread in the OP was that DCC has mouthed off about their blueprints for signage/building especially for the city centre, yet these franchises can stick up anything on a 'temporary basis' and nothing is done for years on end.


Not only Spars etc but they are the most obvious.

adamski8

Carter96 wrote: »

Of all the things going on in Dublin and you feel this strongly about FCUCKING SPAR SIGNS!?! Think about it. :rolleyes:

Maybe in a perfect Dublin we could address 'gaudy signage' after we've addressed the important issues.

People are concerned about different things. question is why do you seem to feel so strongly about people who dislike tacky signs???
Nearly sounds like you are saying "nobody should care about anything until the things I deem really important are dealt with"

sunnyjim

adamski8 wrote: »

they are quite ugly alright, yes they are "only signs" but they are everywhere in city and DCC should probably clamp down on them.
If the signs dont bother you good for you. While dublin isnt the prettiest city id prefer if they tried to improve it. It would benefit locals and tourists.

Just look at O'Connell St even. th big burger king shopfront, all the tacky plastic signs above shops. Makes it look awful.

I love college green, particularly the stretch between Doyles pub and the bank on the corner. No tacky hoardings or 'vibrant' glowing red(spar), green and blue(centra) or white and green(londis) plastic spread over half the building.

Dudess

I'm not really bothered by Spars but I do think it's kinda hilarious how many there are in Dublin.

I used to live in Ringsend and there are four Spars within probably a 1km radius - Ringsend itself, Irishtown, Barrow Street and part of the new Docklands development thingie on Pearse Street. Only the Ringsend Spar is a small one. Can't think of any others between there and Tara Street, but no doubt there is.

Edit: there are a few. And also two in Sandymount.

WindSock

I hate the Spar & Centra take over and mourn the demise of our locally owned and unique newsagents. It is horribly homogenising our city into a sea of Gaudy red & greenish blue.
I work down at the Point and the only thing there at the moment is a minging Spar and equally minging Insomnia coffee. Hurry up and open up more shops please :pac:

howiya

Camarague wrote: »

It is an architecture forum. Architects are people who care about design. Hence the discussion of design on the architecture forum

Whatever you think of the signs, the fact that they deliberately skirt the rules with so-called "Temporary signage", is a pernicious tactic that should be stopped.

They are bringing down the appearance of OUR city.

Some of us care about our city and believe that the spread of gaudy signage is worth discussion.
And if you don't give a sh*t about the environment in which you live, that's your choice. But referring to those who care as 'whingers' is plain rude.

OK?

Are these the same architects that designed all new office/apartment blocks to have ground floor retail space thus adding to the proliferation of spars and centras

electrogrimey

To be honest, I'd much prefer to have big franchises like Spars and Centras with ugly signage than little local shops. I find it annoying in foreign cities that newsagents are few and far between, and when you do find one, they're dirty and badly stocked. I realise I'm going to be given out to for being a capitalist or something, but big franchises give better service, and if an ugly sign is the price we have to pay, I can accept that.

sunnyjim

Wow, electrogrimey has just rocked my world.

A promoter of Seomra Spraoi and a capitalist.

:eek:

electrogrimey

If I had a choice between going to a local shop, or a francise, I'd choose the local shop anyday if it was as good. But local shops in other countries don't have ATMs, Delis, off-licenses etc. It's a shame, but it's true. In Europe they seem to go to supermarkets a lot more, they don't seem to have the mid-range shops like Centras and Spars.

Oops, may have completely derailed this thread...:o

BraziliaNZ

Mr.S wrote: »

Are you for real?

I live by a Spar and have never noticed, could not give 2 ****s.

I walk by numerous Spars every day in the city center, again, do no care.

Its a sign ffs. If it was huge, glowing and making some random song, then mabey you can kick up a fuss. But its a sign. It does nothing.

i bet you're a really classy guy

adamski8

electrogrimey wrote: »

To be honest, I'd much prefer to have big franchises like Spars and Centras with ugly signage than little local shops. I find it annoying in foreign cities that newsagents are few and far between, and when you do find one, they're dirty and badly stocked. I realise I'm going to be given out to for being a capitalist or something, but big franchises give better service, and if an ugly sign is the price we have to pay, I can accept that.

Yeah i totally agree with you except why cant we have these shops without the ugly signage?
These shops are making enough money from us at least they could play by the rules

Mr.S wrote: »

Are you for real?

I live by a Spar and have never noticed, could not give 2 ****s.

I walk by numerous Spars every day in the city center, again, do no care.

Its a sign ffs. If it was huge, glowing and making some random song, then mabey you can kick up a fuss. But its a sign. It does nothing.

Ah so this is the criteria where which you would notice these signs eh?
Think why people are complaining is that these signs are against planning permission or are claiming they are temporary signage.

howiya

adamski8 wrote: »

Yeah i totally agree with you except why cant we have these shops without the ugly signage?
These shops are making enough money from us at least they could play by the rules

I know that these signs don't have permission but it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if Spar did have planning permission that their signage would still be ugly.

Planning permission doesn't necessarily mean they will be nicer

stovelid

Don't have a romantic attachment to older shops if that's what you mean - if a new shop offer convenient access to shopping: game on but I do agree that if shops are in older areas of Dublin, they should try and tailor their appearance so that they fit in with the surrounds and are as tasteful as possible.

Red Sleeping Beauty

All of them newsagents are an eyesore. Probably only in Dublin could you have two of the same shop across the road from one another. And it's not even that big of a street considering other EU countries!

I'll keep on voting for someone likely to oppose these horrid things. Unless someone wants to gimme money to sue the bastards I don't know what else to do.

Sir Oxman

howiya wrote: »

I know that these signs don't have permission but it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if Spar did have planning permission that their signage would still be ugly.

Planning permission doesn't necessarily mean they will be nicer

I believe there's a whole load of rules and regs about premises (any premises not just Spars etc) needing to have their signage blend in with the building and surrounds. This isn't happening at all.

It's yet another indicator of how shít the administrative system is in this country.

yermanoffthetv

Its the "sign of the times"I guess. Hioooo But yea you see it all across the country with all the trendy cafes and boutiques closed down and replaced by spars and pound shops. Nothing you can do about that, but as was said before, they should at least try to blend in with the surroundings.They're obviously doing decent business if they can be opening up new stores so they can afford to build a suitable front instead of the horribly tacky plastic signage. And to people who say it doesnt really matter, which one would you rather live beside?


VS

TheIrishGrover

Won't someone think of the children!!!!!!!

1968

It's slightly different with newsagents but the continuing expansion and dominance of multi national chains like Spar, Londis etc... in Dublin is helping the city to become just another Clone Town, a place where the "the individuality of high street shops has been replaced by a monochrome strip of global and national chains".

Personally I prefer the Steps of Rome to Apache Pizza, Captain America's to McDonalds, Simon's Place to Starbucks, Chapters Bookshop to Waterstones and Freebird Records to HMV. This is what makes Dublin different to any other city in Ireland or the U.K.

I'm also glad of the fact that Wetherspoons or any other pub chains haven't been able to open up in Dublin.

JamBur

je suis awesome wrote: »

dublin is a kip, easily the most ugly capital i've been in, but has some great parts to it.

You obviously haven't travelled too far so!

howiya

1968 wrote: »

I'm also glad of the fact that Wetherspoons or any other pub chains haven't been able to open up in Dublin.

Yes its great that we continue to be ripped off whenever we chose to go out for a pint :rolleyes:

1968

howiya wrote: »

Yes its great that we continue to be ripped off whenever we chose to go out for a pint :rolleyes:

I'd rather pay a little bit more to drink in a pub with character, history and a barman who knows your name rather than some monotonous McPub.

(If you want cheap pints - Eddie Rockets, Sub Lounge, Messer Maguires, Cafe Royal and Purty Kitchen)

howiya

1968 wrote: »

I'd rather pay a little bit more to drink in a pub with character, history and a barman who knows your name rather than some monotonous McPub.

(If you want cheap pints - Eddie Rockets, Sub Lounge, Messer Maguires, Cafe Royal and Purty Kitchen)

Your missing the point. If wetherspoons entered the market prices in all pubs would be likely to fall.

I would rather not drink in any of the venues you have mentioned

crushproof

Why would not like to drink the venues mentioned?! Where would you usuaklly drink?!

DCC really need to get into gear and begin to force shops to have signage thats aesthetically pleases the rest of the street. To be honest I've travelled alot and you really don't see the high amount of takcy plastic signage in most other European cities I've been to. Nor do you see a Spar opposite another Spar.

Flamed Diving

1968 wrote: »

It's slightly different with newsagents but the continuing expansion and dominance of multi national chains like Spar, Londis etc... in Dublin is helping the city to become just another Clone Town, a place where the "[/size]the individuality of high street shops has been replaced by a monochrome strip of global and national chains".

Personally I prefer the Steps of Rome to Apache Pizza, Captain America's to McDonalds, Simon's Place to Starbucks, Chapters Bookshop to Waterstones and Freebird Records to HMV. This is what makes Dublin different to any other city in Ireland or the U.K.

Erm, Cork has far more independent shops than Dublin, the latter just looks like a clone of your average UK city. The biggest thing I miss about living in Cork is the variety of locally run shops, as well as the multinationals, not to mention the English Market, something that is without equal in any Irish city (bu... bu... farmers market), and something I like least about living in Dublin is the sterile offering of shops, cafés, etc.


Anyway, on the point about Spar, there can be too many in one area, for my taste. I live in Rathmines and I am in within 5 mins walking distance of four.

Coriolanus

Someone should post in legal about the possibility of pursuing statutes privately rather than relying on DCC doing it.
I know I'd be happy to support such a cause, and you could probably find solicitors these days desperate for work that'd do it for a song.

Dudess

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Erm, Cork has far more independent shops than Dublin, the latter just looks like a clone of your average UK city. The biggest thing I miss about living in Cork is the variety of locally run shops, as well as the multinationals, not to mention the English Market, something that is without equal in any Irish city (bu... bu... farmers market), and something I like least about living in Dublin is the sterile offering of shops, cafés, etc.

I disagree - I don't think there's much difference between Dublin and Cork in most of the respects you mention. I can't think of many locally run shops in Cork at all - I think they have been filtered out by chain shops in the same way as Dublin.
I also disagree with the UK clone assertion - I think that applies to parts of Belfast city centre all right, but not Dublin.

I do agree though that it's easier to find an O'Briens or an Insomnia or Café Sol in Dublin than it is to find a nice one-off café, but they're there all right - you just have to look that bit harder.

Flamed Diving

Dudess wrote: »

I disagree - I don't think there's much difference between Dublin and Cork in most of the respects you mention. I can't think of many locally run shops in Cork at all - I think they have been filtered out by chain shops in the same way as Dublin.
I also disagree with the UK clone assertion - I think that applies to parts of Belfast city centre all right, but not Dublin.

I do agree though that it's easier to find an O'Briens or an Insomnia or Café Sol in Dublin than it is to find a nice one-off café, but they're there all right - you just have to look that bit harder.

We must be on about different Corks, then. I'm on about the one in the south of Ireland. The one which I just visited with my born n'bred Dublin girlfriend who frequently remarked how great it was that there are so many local shops, as opposed to Dublin and how she wished Dublin was more like that. I find myself in complete agreement with her. If you are talking about the same Cork, then you don't seem to be paying very much attention or are spending too much time on Patrick Street.

1968

Dudess wrote: »

I also disagree with the UK clone assertion - I think that applies to parts of Belfast city centre all right, but not Dublin.

I think it's on the way to becoming like that though.

Dudess

Flamed Diving wrote: »

We must be on about different Corks, then. I'm on about the one in the south of Ireland. The one which I just visited with my born n'bred Dublin girlfriend who frequently remarked how great it was that there are so many local shops, as opposed to Dublin and how she wished Dublin was more like that. I find myself in complete agreement with her. If you are talking about the same Cork, then you don't seem to be paying very much attention or are spending too much time on Patrick Street.

Wasn't having a go at you.

Flamed Diving

Dudess wrote: »

Wasn't having a go at you.

Let's just say I strongly disagreed with you.

Dudess

I honestly don't see much physical difference between Dublin and Cork (apart from the Spar/O'Briens/coffee chain overkill - although there are loads of O'Briens in Cork too, and it feels like Subway is actually taking over). And there are plenty of local shops in Dublin - e.g. Georges Street Arcade, Temple Bar.

lightening

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Erm, Cork has far more independent shops than Dublin, the latter just looks like a clone of your average UK city. The biggest thing I miss about living in Cork is the variety of locally run shops, as well as the multinationals, not to mention the English Market, something that is without equal in any Irish city (bu... bu... farmers market), and something I like least about living in Dublin is the sterile offering of shops, cafés, etc.

Silly post. "erm" the biggest farmers market is in Dublin. You miss multinationals in Cork? There are literally hundreds of ethnic restaurants in Dublin, their prices are unbeatable, no other part of the country can beat the value.

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Anyway, on the point about Spar, there can be too many in one area, for my taste. I live in Rathmines and I am in within 5 mins walking distance of four.

This is typical of someone who has moved to Dublin and judges the place on what they see when on their way in and out of work! Get out from behind the keyboard and see a bit of your capital!


Edit... off to Cork for the weekend, can't wait!