Supplements

Sapsorrow

So was just wondering what you gurus think about vitamin, mineral and essential fatty acid supplements.

This is one of those topics in nutrition that I'm always a bit unsure of my self, I tend to slip from a very idealistic notion that everything we need can be met with a perfect diet (with the exception of vit D and calcium) to a better safe than sorry sort of attitude (ie. can we really meet our optimum requirements that easily?).

So how do you guys feel about it? Do you use supplements? Do you think there's a potential for harm with some of them, like Iron for example?

I myself take calcium and vitamin D, Iron, a trace element combo and a B complex (I use ground flax for my EFAs) but then Im vegan so its just easier for me this way (I also eat spinach at least once a day and a wierd genetic osteoperosis like spinal prob runs in my mums side of the family) so I feel I'm proably doing myself more good than harm.

Do you think that the nutritional quality of modern fruit and vegetable varieties is sufficient to meet our needs?

Can we physically eat enough of the green leafys etc.. to meet our ideal requirements when we spend so little time eating a day?

How do you feel about the RDA's? Are they really the ideal for optimum health and should we be basing our needs by them?

Do you think that modern day humans may have an even greater requirement for protective micronutrients than previously in our history due to our stressfull lives, industrial, environmental and food pollution, lack of exercise (relative to being hunter gatherers) etc..?

How do you feel aout EFA's? Do you think they're a necessary supplement? Is flax seed an adequate source?

Pembily

Personally I need to take some - vitamin B, C and lysine, as I am very prone to mouth ulcers and cuts at the side of my mouth and lips (its from my mum we all get it)!!! I also take calcium as I have never eaten much dairy and need calcium!!! B is also meant to stop midgets biting me - I attrack them ALOT

At the minute I am taking rhodiolio and EFA as the are meant to help with concentration and stress and hoping these will help with studying - have the concentration span of a fish

Also take chromium thanks to this forum for my sugar cravings!!!

My diet is good yet I coudn't get all my required vitamins from food, also the food I buy is not always the higest quality:(

Sapsorrow

Pembily wrote: »

B is also meant to stop midgets biting me - I attrack them ALOT

I never heard of that one before! What's Rhodilio is it a herbal thing? Goldfish are a very misunderstood species you know!

metamorphosis

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I never heard of that one before! What's Rhodilio is it a herbal thing? Goldfish are a very misunderstood species you know!

I always take a good fish oil supplement, calcium and Vit. D (even though i get enough calcium in my diet) and glucosamine.

I go through phases of taking a general multi vit, mainly around times when im not feeling the best.

Sapsorrow

ULstudent wrote: »

I always take a good fish oil supplement, calcium and Vit. D (even though i get enough calcium in my diet) and glucosamine.

I go through phases of taking a general multi vit, mainly around times when im not feeling the best.

Is the glucosamine for your training?

metamorphosis

Yeah i would take it partly because i do a lot of high impact training so i feel that it's beneficial in that regard.

El_Dangeroso

I take a multivitamin, 1000mg Fish oil, 6,000IU Vitamin D and a 1,000mg of magnesium and 800mcg chromium.

I take eskimo brand fish oil and I find the gelcaps very difficult to swallow, used to use morEPA but it's too expensive and quite low in DHA, anyone have a better recommendation?

LavaLamp

I was always a little unsure of the benefits of supplements, until I started reading various nutrition books, in particular Patrick Holford's Optimum Nutrition series - would recommend anyone to read them, most libraries have them in and are well worth it.

I have a good diet (I like to think), however I take a B complex, Vit C (2.5g), zinc, calcium, fish oil and sea kelp. Some days I take a super high dose of B12 (I have a deficiency so need all I can get).

I also swear by a tablespoon of unpastuerised apple cider vinegar every day.

Sapsorrow

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I take a multivitamin, 1000mg Fish oil, 6,000IU Vitamin D and a 1,000mg of magnesium and 800mcg chromium.

why the Chromium?
Do you feel that beacuse you're on the low carb that you dont need extra calcium? Does low carb help slow bone loss or just provide more calcium in general?

Sapsorrow

LavaLamp wrote: »

I also swear by a tablespoon of unpastuerised apple cider vinegar every day.

What are the benifits to taking the cider vinegar? Ive heard of using lemon juice before meals to help people lose weight.

LavaLamp

Apple cider vinegar (ACV) does all sorts of things, along with being great for digestion, it helps balance your body's PH levels, meaning all your systems work better (it's actually alkaline, not acidic as many think). Many people use it to help lower blood pressure, ease rheumatism (sp?) and help with skin conditions of all sorts. Honestly the list is endless, if you search engine it you will find some great sites dedicated to it's benefits.

I actually like the taste which is a bonus, and if I have the start of a sore throat I gargle with it and within 10 mins I feel better again. The most important thing is that it is unpastuerised though, as pastuerising takes out all the goodness, you will find it in health shops and sometimes it has nasty looking gunge at the bottom which is always a sign of good ACV

Pembily

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I never heard of that one before! What's Rhodilio is it a herbal thing? Goldfish are a very misunderstood species you know!

Rhodiola Roesa Root Extract is meant to help with stress and memory!!!

Smart Nutrition wrote:

Rhodiola rosea is a popular plant in traditional medical systems in Eastern Europe and Asia with a reputation for stimulating the nervous system, decreasing depression, enhancing work performance, eliminating fatigue, and preventing high altitude sickness. Rhodiola rosea has been categorized as an adaptogen by Russian researchers due to its observed ability to increase resistance to a variety of chemical, biological, and physical stressors. Its claimed benefits include antidepressant, anticancer, cardioprotective, and central nervous system enhancement. Research also indicates great utility in asthenic conditions (decline in work performance, sleep difficulties, poor appetite, irritability, hypertension, headaches, and fatigue) developing subsequent to intense physical or intellectual strain. The adaptogenic, cardiopulmonary protective, and central nervous system activities of Rhodiola rosea have been attributed primarily to its ability to influence levels and activity of monoamines and opioid peptides such as beta-endorphins.
(Altern Med Rev 2001;6(3):293-302)

Sorry for insulting the goldfishes I have a shocking memory, maybe its cos I am blonde :D:D

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I take a multivitamin, 1000mg Fish oil, 6,000IU Vitamin D and a 1,000mg of magnesium and 800mcg chromium.

I take eskimo brand fish oil and I find the gelcaps very difficult to swallow, used to use morEPA but it's too expensive and quite low in DHA, anyone have a better recommendation?

Feck and double feck - I take th morEPA as found they were the only ones that didnt repeat on me (fish oil burps are icky:() but never tried Eskimo, are the morEPA bad??
Thanks

El_Dangeroso

khrystyna100 wrote: »

why the Chromium?
Do you feel that beacuse you're on the low carb that you dont need extra calcium? Does low carb help slow bone loss or just provide more calcium in general?

Beyond just general blood sugar control it completely lifts your mood within days of taking a high enough dose. Very good for reducing stress in my experience. I feel like a different person without it.

I have dairy and bone broth (just homemade stock really) for calcium, and the vitamin D means I utilise every little bit I consume. I eat liver once a week for vitamin A too. No idea on whether low carb per se is bone protective, but people with leaky gut sydrome (such as those with gluten and dairy allergies) have a much higher incidence of osteoporosis. This is the proposed mechanism:

http://nephropal.blogspot.com/2009/11/celiac-disease-and-osteoporosis.html

Strength training is really important for bone density too, lots of studies showing that.

El_Dangeroso

Pembily wrote: »

Feck and double feck - I take th morEPA as found they were the only ones that didnt repeat on me (fish oil burps are icky:() but never tried Eskimo, are the morEPA bad??
Thanks

No, not at all, I love it, it's very expensive though! Just wondering if there's a viable alternative.

Pembily

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Beyond just general blood sugar control it completely lifts your mood within days of taking a high enough dose. Very good for reducing stress in my experience. I feel like a different person without it.

I have dairy and bone broth (just homemade stock really) for calcium, and the vitamin D means I utilise every little bit I consume. I eat liver once a week for vitamin A too. No idea on whether low carb per se is bone protective, but people with leaky gut sydrome (such as those with gluten and dairy allergies) have a much higher incidence of osteoporosis. This is the proposed mechanism:

http://nephropal.blogspot.com/2009/11/celiac-disease-and-osteoporosis.html

Strength training is really important for bone density too, lots of studies showing that.

Phew - thanks

How much is high chromium I am taking 200ug (microgram) but would if I could take more!

I have that leaky gut thingy I take calcium as I don't eat enough dairy!!!

Thanks

Sapsorrow

Pembily wrote: »

Rhodiola Roesa Root Extract is meant to help with stress and memory!!!

Can you buy it in Ireland? I'd love to give it a try what with the exams looming normally I hit the pro-plus but this certainly would be healthier I'd imagine!

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Beyond just general blood sugar control it completely lifts your mood within days of taking a high enough dose. Very good for reducing stress in my experience. I feel like a different person without it.

No idea on whether low carb per se is bone protective, but people with leaky gut sydrome (such as those with gluten and dairy allergies) have a much higher incidence of osteoporosis.

That sounds amazing, will definately give the chromium a go now had no idea it had an effect on mood.

Thats interesting about the leaky gut thing, I must get my brother in law to get that checked he got diagnosed with osteoperosis in his mid twenties.

This thread is proving extremely insightful thanks everyone!

El_Dangeroso

Pembily wrote: »

Phew - thanks

How much is high chromium I am taking 200ug (microgram) but would if I could take more!

I have that leaky gut thingy I take calcium as I don't eat enough dairy!!!

Thanks

Try 800mcg a day for a week and see if it makes a difference.

ACV and probiotics are supposed to be effective at attacking gut biofilms that may help with healing a leaky gut.

Pembily

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Can you buy it in Ireland? I'd love to give it a try what with the exams looming normally I hit the pro-plus but this certainly would be healthier I'd imagine!

This thread is proving extremely insightful thanks everyone!

Thank you for starting it :) I buy it in the health food shop - its by Solgar!!!

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Try 800mcg a day for a week and see if it makes a difference.

ACV and probiotics are supposed to be effective at attacking gut biofilms that may help with healing a leaky gut.

I take 2 Acidiphilous every morning first thing- Solgar Advanced 40+ (should have shares at this stage)

Kinda prone to candida so have been told to stay away from ACV but heard its amazing for everything else besides yeast overgrowth. Thoughts appreciated

Thanks

El_Dangeroso

Pembily wrote: »

Kinda prone to candida so have been told to stay away from ACV but heard its amazing for everything else besides yeast overgrowth. Thoughts appreciated

Thanks

Me too Any vinegar or pickled food should do it, sauerkraut?

Pembily

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Me too Any vinegar or pickled food should do it, sauerkraut?

Do you not find the ACV agrivates the candida or helps the yeast to grow??

Sapsorrow

Glad to see other people who are solgar fans!
What's AVC guys?
I need to start on the probiotics really have been meaning to for years but never got round to it, do ye find it helps the IBS much? I know it's had good results in the studies done so far (actually my college has a department specialising in IBS and probiotic culture research)
Have you guys tried enzyme supplements for IBS? any thoughts on these?

Dunno if ye spotted this thread yet: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64019666#post64019666

Sapsorrow

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

No idea on whether low carb per se is bone protective, but people with leaky gut sydrome (such as those with gluten and dairy allergies) have a much higher incidence of osteoporosis. This is the proposed mechanism:

http://nephropal.blogspot.com/2009/11/celiac-disease-and-osteoporosis.html

That is some shockin Sh*t! :eek: Do you happen to know of any intervention trials done looking into this??

eclectichoney

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Beyond just general blood sugar control it completely lifts your mood within days of taking a high enough dose. Very good for reducing stress in my experience. I feel like a different person without it.

Which form of Chromium is best to take? Chelate, Picolinate or another?
Thanks
Also 800mg seems a lot??

Sapsorrow

eclectichoney wrote: »

Which form of Chromium is best to take? Chelate, Picolinate or another?
Thanks
Also 800mg seems a lot??

Chromium nicotinate and chromium picolinate are likely to be more bioavailable than the chromium chloride form but there are some concerns over the safety of the picolinate form (mainly kidney complications and possible genotoxicity) so I'd go for nicotinate myself just to be sure.
I'd be a little dubious personally about going as high as 800mg as it competes with Iron on transferrin but if you're not a veggie this prob isn't something to worry about tbh.
Toxicity has only been found to occur with a mega dose like this for the picolinate form anyway.

LavaLamp

ACV is actually a brilliant, natural way to kill off and control candida. Have copied this from one of the many sites that sing it's praises.

"Apple cider vinegar is rich in natural enzymes that can regulate the presence of candida in the body. It helps encourage the growth of healthy bacteria, which in turn minimizes the overgrowth of candida. Apple cider vinegar also balances your body's pH level. These properties not only clear up candida, though. Once you start using it, the benefits of apple cider vinegar will extend to all areas of your health."

Honestly, ACV is fantastic for everything, you name it ACV can cure it LOL. I had some mad sugar cravings recently after taking anti-biotics, which is a sure sign of Candida going on the rampage as sugar is one of it's fave foods. A neat shot of ACV soon put paid to them. If you can't stomach that then sip it in water throughout the day, everyone's tastes and stomachs are different, I have an ACV loving stomach so can drink it neat, other people find it gives them stomach ache so have to dilute it. A great winter drink or just a pick-me up is ACV with cayenne pepper and some honey with hot water. One thing I will say is that you need to take ACV daily for it to work and have long term benefits.

Anyone would think I think ACV is a miracle cure the way I go on LOL. Oh, hang on, I do

Sapsorrow

Are you an ACV PR rep by any chance?

LavaLamp

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Are you an ACV PR rep by any chance?

Hahaa - tell you what if I was offered the job I would snap it up (so long as I got free lifetime supply of ACV). I'd be curing people and animals up and down the country - I'd be unstoppable (oh, except the big drug companies would hate me for it of course). :D:D

eclectichoney

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Chromium nicotinate and chromium picolinate are likely to be more bioavailable than the chromium chloride form but there are some concerns over the safety of the picolinate form (mainly kidney complications and possible genotoxicity) so I'd go for nicotinate myself just to be sure.

I can't find that at all over on iherb???
What about this:
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-GTF-Chromium-Glucose-Tolerance-Factor-200-mcg-250-Tablets/624?at=0
Chromium Chelavite is a type of chromium-niacin amino acid chelate

Thanks!

El_Dangeroso

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I need to start on the probiotics really have been meaning to for years but never got round to it, do ye find it helps the IBS much? I know it's had good results in the studies done so far (actually my college has a department specialising in IBS and probiotic culture research)
Have you guys tried enzyme supplements for IBS? any thoughts on these?

Dunno if ye spotted this thread yet: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64019666#post64019666

I did probiotics and enzymes for a bit and they did nothing tangible, just my experience.

I do eat a fair amount of soluble fiber from veggies that acts as a prebiotic anyway, so as long as I don't overfeed the bad stuff with sugar, I hope it balances out.

Re: chromium, I meant 800mcg which is micrograms, not milligrams, which would be far too much! I hadn't seen that on the picolinate, god the more I know the less I know sometimes!

eclectichoney

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Re: chromium, I meant 800mcg which is micrograms, not milligrams, which would be far too much! I hadn't seen that on the picolinate, god the more I know the less I know sometimes!

Sorry i actually meant to write 800mcg - apologies! Still it's 4 tablet's worth, which seems a lot? And is there any particular brand / type you would recommend? There are a lot of different ones on iherb. Was just going to go for these (Chromium Polynicotinate) as they are cheaper than the Solgar version and NOW are usually ok (I think!)

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Chromemate-180-Capsules/507?at=0

EileenG

I was at the Young Scientists Exhibition, and saw a project on warts which found that apple cider vinegar was the best natural cure for warts.

Sapsorrow

Here ya go (sorry if you don't have free access to a database!)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10943591?dopt=Abstract

Wasser WG, Feldman NS, D'Agati VD. Chronic renal failure after ingestion of over-the-counter chromium picolinate. Ann Intern Med. 1997;126(5):410.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10946250?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10368310?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=16492795

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9250127?dopt=Abstract

psycho-hope

i take chronium too(when i remeber) have a seriously sweet tooth and this helps with the cravings big time. I also take calcuim and Vit D because ive a dairy intolerence so dont get much calcium other wise

El_Dangeroso

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Here ya go (sorry if you don't have free access to a database!)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10943591?dopt=Abstract

Wasser WG, Feldman NS, D'Agati VD. Chronic renal failure after ingestion of over-the-counter chromium picolinate. Ann Intern Med. 1997;126(5):410.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10946250?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10368310?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=16492795

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9250127?dopt=Abstract

Ta for the links! Had a look at the letter that Wasser wrote. Hmm, I'm personally dubious. It's one single case where a woman had taken picolinate 5 months previous to being diagnosed with kidney problems. That's one heck of a leap to assume cause and effect with just one case.

There's an 8 week trial of supplementing with picolinate with 1,000mcg, with no serious adverse reactions:

Free text here, the study also showed that chromium helped with cravings somewhat but it was a flawed study, they didn't randomise the groups correctly, so I only post it in reference to the safety aspect.

But of course caution should prevail with all supplement use. It really annoys me that supplements are unregulated as they are. Did you hear about the patients that died in that probiotic study in Holland? No one could ever have guessed that people with a pancreas disorder would react so badly.

Maybe chromium niacinate is the way to go. I'm probably gonna finish off the jar of picolinate though because I like to live dangerously

corkcomp

ive taken chromium picolinate (sp?) in the past and found it quite good. I wouldnt be overly worried about there being any side effects. Of course the problem with a lot of supplements (especially minerals) is that people think more is better and take two or three times the recommended ammounts. TBH, I would always take the manufacturers rda as being the upper limit, because obviously the more you take the more they sell.

--Kaiser--

LavaLamp wrote: »

Apple cider vinegar (ACV) does all sorts of things, along with being great for digestion, it helps balance your body's PH levels, meaning all your systems work better (it's actually alkaline, not acidic as many think). Many people use it to help lower blood pressure, ease rheumatism (sp?) and help with skin conditions of all sorts. Honestly the list is endless, if you search engine it you will find some great sites dedicated to it's benefits.

Yes, and if i looked I believe I would also find lots of sites purporting that the world is flat. Very few of the claims made by these 'health' websites have been verified in any way.
.....the main constituent of Apple Cider Vinegar is acetic acid, how is it alkaline?

Sapsorrow

Wow had a fantastic lecturer about prebiotics today and just thought Id share a bit of what I learn with you guys.
Basically we were talking about non digestible oligosaccharides and looking at some of the claims and research surrounding them and one thing that is consistently reproducible in clinical trials is that some prebiotics can increase calcium and magnesium absorption. One study showed how the bone mass of teenage girls was increased significantly after taking them for a year.
Basically the short chain fatty acids formed by baterial fermenation of the prebiotics create a more acidic environment in the intestine which facillitates calcium absorption.
I thought this might interest anyone taking vitamin D, calcium and/or magnesium for their bone health I think it's fascinating I never heard of it before!

Heres a website with some info on the adolescent girl study: http://www.orafti.com/Nutritional-Benefits/Boosting-Bone-Health

I'll try get some more links to pubmed or the likes from my notes for ye when I have a chance to download them.
On that note can anyone reccomend a probiotic supplement preferably with prebiotics in it too?

Edit: Just found this review: http://0-www.sciencedirect.com.library.ucc.ie/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TB0-4WYCT5V-4&_user=77869&_coverDate=08%2F08%2F2009&_alid=1171155926&_rdoc=13&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5128&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=325&_acct=C000006258&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=77869&md5=83ae536a55882f810761a4399815019e

And this animal study: http://0-www.sciencedirect.com.library.ucc.ie/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T7C-4JFHF0H-3&_user=77869&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2006&_alid=1171155926&_rdoc=3&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5055&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=325&_acct=C000006258&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=77869&md5=5b08fd35dc6befafd919b73e1053aa68