M4 with RIS recommendations?

Fireborn

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone can recommend an m4 with RIS that'd be good for CQB. I've been looking at reveiws, but many of them seem to have inherant problems.

I'm looking for everyone who's ever owned/used and m4 to give opinions on their favorite CQB/Short m4.

Thanks all,

Fireborn

Firekitten

G&P M4cqbr... good internals and build quality.

CA: not 'official' treades, good internals in the v4 cqbrs (all made currently are of the v4 build standard)

Dboys: no trades, or fake trades laser ingraved. decent enough internals, pretty low budget.

JG: Fairly nice insides, the mosfet version are awesome

G&G: good build, good internals, nice guns.



I refer to manufacturers here, but all produce and m4cqbr model. Most of those, have them fairly right, and you'll always have some sort of downside on an airsoft gun, those, all perform rather nicely by my experience if looked after.

Fireborn

Thanks Firekitten

Would you reccommend one yourself? Im kinda stuck between a JG G36C and a unknown M4 CQB. I really really like the m4 both looks and function wise and I'm kinda relishing uppgrading and refining one, but the G36C just seems too good to miss. if you get what I mean?

The main problem comes with the fact that 90% of the time I'll be in G-TAC2 which is some serious CQB by the looks of things. So i'm thinking the standard m4 might be a bit to cumbersome. But again, I have 0 experience, which is why people like you are godsends.

Fireborn

Firekitten

Frankly, people tend to overcomplicate CQB. I've seen people do really REALLY tight cqb, with m16s, and one man, an m60DX. Its possible if you adapt your style.

So a 14.5 m4 has very very little handicap over a 10.5inch one. I mean... 4 inches? It makes no odds really.

The g36c and m4 cqb both have the same length barrel, but the g36 gearbox is a much more reliable design in my view (V3 over v2). Hopup design is better in the g36 too. But the m4 is by no means 'bad', plenty use them and love them, as do I.

Then again, its personal choice and comfort to decide what gun you want. Me? I use an ak74n in cqb... Why? Because nobody elses gun is long enough to be used as a pole to push doors open without getting shot

Fireborn

Can the v2 be cleaned up and have better parts added to bring it up to a v3 standard or is it a flawed design overall?

Fireborn

Firekitten wrote: »

Me? I use an ak74n in cqb... Why? Because nobody elses gun is long enough to be used as a pole to push doors open without getting shot

And that, is pure genius.

Firekitten

Fireborn wrote: »

Can the v2 be cleaned up and have better parts added to bring it up to a v3 standard or is it a flawed design overall?

Both can be upgraded, but the design of the v3, is inherantly more stable imo, and doesnt expose the shell to the same sort of stresses. Not as big a deal at 1j, but can be. I've lost the front of serveral v2 boxes at 1j over the years, but its only several, out of too many.

Don't get me wrong, the v2 is good, the v3 is good, neither will perform 'better' but the v3 may take more.... punishment? in the very very very long run. I use both happily.

Fireborn wrote: »

And that, is pure genius.

Necessity is the mother of all f***kups I mean Invention....

Leftyflip

Fireborn wrote: »

Can the v2 be cleaned up and have better parts added to bring it up to a v3 standard or is it a flawed design overall?

Personally I find both V2 and V3 gearboxes, the same, what I don't like about the V3 is the trigger block and mechanism. V2's aren't flawed and I wouldn't say that the V3 is a better standard. It depends on internal parts and quality.
Although that's my opinion, other people will think differently.

Firekitten

Im not talking about parts lefty, I'm talking about stresses placed on the design of the shell. It is different, and I'm sure masada and puding will come in and back me up on this one. Its not major, as I said, but i've never seen the front end crack off a v3 box P

As for the trigger design... I actually like it... a LOT less fiddly to put in than the damn v2 that likes to jump out.

k99_64

any tm m4 is your best bet!

Firekitten

k99_64 wrote: »

any tm m4 is your best bet!

:rolleyes:

Leftyflip

Firekitten wrote: »

Im not talking about parts lefty, I'm talking about stresses placed on the design of the shell. It is different, and I'm sure masada and puding will come in and back me up on this one. Its not major, as I said, but i've never seen the front end crack off a v3 box P

As for the trigger design... I actually like it... a LOT less fiddly to put in than the damn v2 that likes to jump out.

I know what you were rederring to, but it is something that should still be considered. I could bring up the whole Sportline thing and make a comparison to another brand but I won't.
I find the V2 design much less fiddly than the V3

Fireborn

So are v2 and v3 gearboxes a universal thing? like all manufacturers put v2's in m4's?

Firekitten

Leftyflip wrote: »

I know what you were rederring to, but it is something that should still be considered. I could bring up the whole Sportline thing and make a comparison to another brand but I won't.
I find the V2 design much less fiddly than the V3

Erm, Sportline has nothing to do with this Lefty.... I'm refering to version 2 gearboxes of any brand...

Of all the ones i work on, i find v6 and 3 the best to work on really. 2's and 7s are the pains.

Stercus Accidit

Leftyflip wrote: »

Personally I find both V2 and V3 gearboxes, the same, what I don't like about the V3 is the trigger block and mechanism. V2's aren't flawed and I wouldn't say that the V3 is a better standard. It depends on internal parts and quality.
Although that's my opinion, other people will think differently.

Only in countries with high fps limits do you really see the V2 gearbox cracking, which is its main flaw, bar that with our limits its less likely so v2 versus v3 is not a big difference, its the internals, as you say here.

I find v2's a pain to work on, they seem to be more hassle and more screws, but thats a minor thing and my only qualm, and varies with gun also.

To OP, dboys m4's are pretty solid, and have ris equipped models, a couple of upgrade parts and they are as good as any high ender.

Firekitten

As I said sam, relatively minor, but the only real difference i've seen.

And. i have had plenty of v2s crack in the UK at 1j before we upped our limit, back in the good ol' days. Its a combination of rof, power and use. Not seen many support guns with v2s in though

Fireborn

Are these failure like catastrophic gun killing failures or are they, "my AEG has broken I need to take it apart during the next match" failures?

Stercus Accidit

If the gearbox cracks its f*cked, but its rare, only likely in high fps and rof setups.

TBH I wouldn't even factor it in in your choice.

Leftyflip

Firekitten wrote: »

Erm, Sportline has nothing to do with this Lefty.... I'm refering to version 2 gearboxes of any brand...

Of all the ones i work on, i find v6 and 3 the best to work on really. 2's and 7s are the pains.

I was referring to internal parts, I would have more of a concern with an internal part breaking and damaging the gearbox than the gearbox actually cracking and breaking off. I only used Sportline's as a reference for failure of a gearbox. Version 2 or Version 3, the piston or gears will go well before the gearbox cracks. It has been pointed out before that under the 1J limit there isn't a huge chance of the gearbox shell cracking, yes, it does happen but not a lot.
Personally I find version 2 and version 6 gearboxes easy to work on and then version 3's.

Firekitten

IF they happen (Sorry to seem to be scaring you here) its a 'replace the gearbox shell' job. If you carry spares, sure, next match :P but most dont, and even I dont carry spare gearbox components to skirmishes.
Honestly, its hugely rare, and unlikely to happen at irish fps and activity. V2 is probably the widest used gearbox design out there... its popular for a reason.

k99_64

Firekitten wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well they dont break down, are lighter than anything full metal so easier for cqb, and give great stock performance.

Cant see why people dont buy them.

Firekitten

k99_64 wrote: »

Well they dont break down, are lighter than anything full metal so easier for cqb, and give great stock performance.

Cant see why people dont buy them.

Because they wobble like a drunk trying to find his way out of temple barf on a saturday morning... and have the structural integrity of same.

Crappy plastic nasty. Outclassed totally in todays market. All the girls that i know that play, me and them ALL dont think for a second about using a metal m4... we just do. Its really not tthat heavy, and makes absolutely no difference in cqb. Stock performance also lacks something in todays market. Why not buy one good gun, that one can use in cqb and outside?

Fireborn

Whats a mosfet by the way?

Also if you could reccomend a single m4 which would it be?

thermo

a mofset is for all intents and purposes a mini relay.

the only gearbox iv ever had crack was a cyma v3,,,,,,, having said that it had seen more than 300,000+ pellets

Fireborn

A mini relay for what? how does it work in an AEG?

k99_64

Firekitten wrote: »

Because they wobble like a drunk trying to find his way out of temple barf on a saturday morning... and have the structural integrity of same.

Crappy plastic nasty. Outclassed totally in todays market. All the girls that i know that play, me and them ALL dont think for a second about using a metal m4... we just do. Its really not tthat heavy, and makes absolutely no difference in cqb. Stock performance also lacks something in todays market. Why not buy one good gun, that one can use in cqb and outside?

Wobble can be a problem on some of them ive heard, but mainly just the m16a2, they seem to have eliminated the problem on most of the guns now.

Structural integrity is a issue if you fall and put all your weight on the gun itself though, my TMs are doing just fine.

I accept the point about full metal then if people like it.

Stock performance lacks how?

Masada

V3 gearbox by its design is better than the V2, thats a known fact.

The V2 even at 1j can shear off the front of the cylinder. I have seen this plenty of times and strangely on a lot of TM stuff which is even less than a joule.

That said, a good quality shell will most likely be fine and you can bore out the corners of the front to round off the edges, meaning less stress concentrated in those points.

I wouldn't be put off by the V2 though, i have loads of them and love them.
The King Arms CQBR is a lovely one aswell with a very realistic finish on the body, it looks like proper blackened metal as opposed to paint coated stuff.,:)

Fireborn

Ok so I'm thinking if I buy an m4 it'll be a G&G one.

Firekitten

thermo wrote: »

the only gearbox iv ever had crack was a cyma v3,,,,,,, having said that it had seen more than 300,000+ pellets

Lol, were they meta pelleth?

Fireborn wrote: »

Also if you could reccomend a single m4 which would it be?

G&P, without a doubt.

k99_64 wrote: »

Wobble can be a problem on some of them ive heard, but mainly just the m16a2, they seem to have eliminated the problem on most of the guns now.

Structural integrity is a issue if you fall and put all your weight on the gun itself though, my TMs are doing just fine.

I accept the point about full metal then if people like it.

Stock performance lacks how?

Its rather low, and thier accuracy and stock hop leaves something to be desired.
Nah, the whole tm ar15 range upto the sopmod (by that i mean all other designs)
The m4, m16a1 vn, a2, m733 etc, all have two piece barrels, and the structural integrity of jellyfish. The back of the reciver can sheer off with the stock tube, and they arent the best finish or build. Hell the upper reciver is 3 parts ffs, and the inside of the vn barrel is just a metal pipe. Tm havent changed those designs sadly.
For the cost? sod it, you can get a dboys that is better built and performs better for half the cost, and the parts to make it much much better, and as reliable for the rest of the cost.



Edit: Masada: Btw... King arms offer a budget package of a KA m4cqbr for not that much on ehobby... well, value pack, with extra on sale, not persay... budget. Kingarms are nice...

Fireborn

So a mosfet, what does it do? how does it make an AEG better?

Firekitten

Essentially its a switch/ chip that can control rate of fire, and increases the efficiency of the gun as a circuit. Reduces lag time between trigger pull and shot, and increases efficiency of battery use. Also can be used to have 3 round burst on some models etc.

Fireborn

And any AEG can take one?

k99_64

Well all i can tell the OP is that, the TM sr-16 i have has been perfect, no problems, shoots shriaght and true out of the box and good range (fps are about 290 but id rather the lower fps)

Put it through a fair bit abuse too (gave it a loan to another guy and he promptly fell on it) and its still been perfect.

Firekitten

Full stock, long barrel, entirely unsuitable for the cqb weapon hes looking for :P but not an aweful gun. Still the TM fanboyism is a bit much. The price is still not worth what you get in todays market.

chris20

Fireborn wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone can recommend an m4 with RIS that'd be good for CQB. I've been looking at reveiws, but many of them seem to have inherant problems.

I'm looking for everyone who's ever owned/used and m4 to give opinions on their favorite CQB/Short m4.

Thanks all,

Fireborn

i use a JG M4 stubby in cqb,its sportline money and a great little gun,has a small ris on it,has gotten some savage abuse in the form of a 11.1 lipo straight out of the box,have never had to replace or upgrade anything and is still going strong,and for such a small gun it is fairly good outdoors too

Firekitten

Stubby thriller....

11.1 V Lipo...









This is all I have to say ktnxbai.

k99_64

Firekitten wrote: »

Full stock, long barrel, entirely unsuitable for the cqb weapon hes looking for :P but not an aweful gun. Still the TM fanboyism is a bit much. The price is still not worth what you get in todays market.

Depends on the users size as well, I find that there is a low amount of fanboyz tbh, seems to be far more that despise them.

Firekitten

Not despise... Find themselves hard pressed to find any actual points in TMs favour in todays market... sure. You misintepret.

And trust me, the fanboys are bloody everywhere, thankfully not as prolific in Ireland as the UK.... *shudders*

chris20

Firekitten wrote: »

Stubby thriller....

11.1 V Lipo...









This is all I have to say ktnxbai.

show me a better more effective and reliable cqb aeg

Firekitten

Im sorry, but an unupgraded stubby thriller on a 11.1 lipo is as reliable as the weather. That gun is going to catastrophically FECK itself shortly on such a power, and be a very effective wall hanger.

The stubby killer is the size of an mp5 roughly... a lot of things are...

UMP
p90
Skorpion
Mp7
mp5
mp5k
Sten
mp40

The stubbys are a visual abomination at the best of time, and really no advantage in performance over other aegs.

thermo

i use the G&G cqbr from the g4 series and its an animal, highly accurate, savage rof, and nice and compact. i like it so much its survived the last 4 gun clear-outs!

chris20

Firekitten wrote: »

Im sorry, but an unupgraded stubby thriller on a 11.1 lipo is as reliable as the weather. That gun is going to catastrophically FECK itself shortly on such a power, and be a very effective wall hanger.

The stubby killer is the size of an mp5 roughly... a lot of things are...

UMP
p90
Skorpion
Mp7
mp5
mp5k
Sten
mp40

The stubbys are a visual abomination at the best of time, and really no advantage in performance over other aegs.

well considering its over a year old,has NO upgrades at all and has only seen a lipo battery,and is still going strong,i also has a kwa defender and there is less wear on the stubby internals than the defenders,also i paid 170 for the stubby and with the abuse its gotten its served me very well

Firekitten

Honestly? I'd upgrade that soon, because its GOING to die hon. I work on these things professionally. That setup is like running a car at 100km/h for its entire life... oh, it will work, but its lifespan is hugely reduced.

thermo

i forgot to mention the m4 is completely stock, bar a m90 spring which i threw in myself.

Firekitten

m90 in a g&g... 310ish? I like using a lower power spring sometimes. gives an increase in rate of fire due to lower tension, and less stress on internals. A good cheap way to keep an aeg rocking longer.

chris20

Firekitten wrote: »

Honestly? I'd upgrade that soon, because its GOING to die hon. I work on these things professionally. That setup is like running a car at 100km/h for its entire life... oh, it will work, but its lifespan is hugely reduced.

ive gone through 3 defenders that all had cracked mech box's and the little jg stubby has lasted all this time,i know myself that it will eventually s**t itself,but for what i paid for it and the abuse its gotten id be perfectly happy with what ive gotten from it,also have a tm90 which is great for cqb,the only problen i have with it is the mags,other that that its a savage gun

Firekitten

Why, prey tell, did you not just replace the mech box in the defender number one?

Leftyflip

chris20 wrote: »

show me a better more effective and reliable cqb aeg

CQB needs an 11.1V lipo?
Taurus PT 24/7 FTW!
Anyway, I don't think you need a high R.O.F set up for CQB, just a good trigger finger and reflexes.

Firekitten

Yup... lefty has the right idea... I go into Cqb against people using high rof aegs with just a tm p226... and my badarse self.

chris20

i couldnt find a replacement mech box,and was told by the shop that they wont be getting them for 2 months,couldnt wait that long haha

Firekitten

Mein Gott... you're serious?

uh, there are other shops and the internet you know? i can't belive you bought two more whole guns for that... What shop is it? they must love you ><