BOD's replacement

ChemOC

BOD has still got a few class years ahead of him I'm sure. However the good days aren't going to last forever and it would not surprise me if he retired from international rugby after the next world cup.

What to do? The odds of getting another BOD out of no where seem slim.

How about Tommy Bowe? In a few years he may have lost a bit of pace, and we know he is fantastic at 13 for the Ospreys. Thus making him perfect for 13 when BOD has gone.

I do feel sorry for the person who replaces the 13 shirt for Ireland as they will never be as good as BOD.

Or are there other alternatives?

Cuchulain

Yeah Bowe would be a good option. He is certainly got the right brain to be a very good centre. McFadden has all the hallmarks of being an excellent replacement for BOD.

Risteard

Well, assuming he will retire after the World Cup, that's a long time away and lots of things can happen.

Currently, if he got injured, my preference would be Bowe.

However in two years, many things can happen. e.g. if Keith Earls nails down 13 for Munster and gets a good consistent run of games he could be our 13.

In Leinster, where it will be harder to make the breakthrough as BOD has that position nailed town until he retires, it could be McFadden or this wonderkid Macken I hear some people talk about, though I'm not sure if he's a centre?

Fitzgerald could make a fist of it I'm sure.

Then of course there's Cave up north.

thomond2006

Troy Nathan will be Irish qualified soon. :pac:

bamboozle

I'd say Bowe is best placed to take over or maybe fitz at 13, however 2 years from now development of Macken, Conway (will he get game time at 15 for Leinster) Cave & Whitten might be a factor.

tHE vAGGABOND

McFadden - man of tournament in Churchil Cup last summer remember - and impressed me from what I have seen of him playing for leinster.

j4supporter

Anyone know anything about this Macken lad? Heard him mentioned a bit.

PhatPiggins

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

McFadden - man of tournament in Churchil Cup last summer remember - and impressed me from what I have seen of him playing for leinster.

You must have a long memory

spoon

While at present i would put Bowe in at center, i would much prefer to have either Cave or Earls there long term. If Earls will start getting regular game time at 13 for Munster I would be supprised if anyone else but him got the 13 shirt from BOD.

While both Fitz and Bowe are good in the center, they're much better on the wings in my opinion.

ChemOC

So Bowe in the short term, but in the long term Earls or Cave?

PhatPiggins

ChemOC wrote: »

So Bowe in the short term, but in the long term Earls or Cave?

Bowe not at all, while a good 13, on current form is the best winger in the NH.

BOD has at least a season and a half left hopefully one of the others will have put their hands up by then.

ChemOC

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Bowe not at all, while a good 13, on current form is the best winger in the NH.

BOD has at least a season and a half left hopefully one of the others will have put their hands up by then.

I hope someone else puts there hands up, but in a year and a half Bowe could still be our best option.

I'm a massive fan of Bowe hope he can keep up his great form from last year.

chupacabra

I would be hesitant to say Brendan Macken, as we don't want to put that much pressure on young shoulders but he has that same X-Factor BOD had when he burst onto the scene, that ability to just be so aware, to be able to read the game and be in the right place at the right time and make the right decisions ALL the time. Thats not something you learn, its something you are born with. Add to that the fact that he is already pretty big and has pace and acceleration to burn and you could be looking at the next 13 for Leinster and Ireland. Earls has a shot but he will really need to start playing regularly at 13 for munster for a few seasons or else he wont even be in the reckoning for the 13 shirt for Ireland. Cave has really been found out i think for both pace and handling skills, not the player i thought he was when i saw him light up the U20 Six Nations in 2007. The best bet is Bowe tho, he has played some great rugby there for the Ospreys and has what it takes to be a world class center.

padser

I BOD got injured tomorrow - by far and away the most obvious choice for replacing him is Darcy.

I also think Darcy may have a stint in the jersey if BOD retires after the WC (Darcy might have 2 years of international rugby left in him at that stage given that he is a year younger and has spent a fair bit of time out injured) -

Longer term you have to think Fitz, Earls or Bowe will take the jersey (it's hard to see someone like Cave moving ahead of them) with Kearney at full back it will take someone special to displace one of those from the team.

I think a far more interesting question is who will be Ireland's 12.

jackcee

If you needed a replacement tomorrow, it would have to be Bowe.

But, I believe he is far more effective in the 14 shirt.

He could do a job in the centre, but he will never be a world-class centre, while he is already the best rightwing in the world. (I know, I know, that Ospreys are using him in the centre).

In terms of succession, it has to be Earls. But he has to be allowed to settle into the position with Munster. If they keep moving him around from position to position, we may well lose out on the full potential of a massive talent.

(BTW - as a fully paid up member of the Tommy Bowe Fan Club, I take great joy in remembering the occasion when Neil Francis gave Bowe a big fat zero, after an International.)

bamboozle

i'm just worried that Earls is strong enough to play center internationally. i think his best bet internationally is on the wing.

[Jackass]

You know, I think McFadden is more of a 12...also, Bowe is SUPERB at 13 and moving him off the wing opens up space for Fitz and Earls on the wings....

And that's just with the players available right now, but who knows where we'll be in a couple of seasons...there's a few Irish internationals at the moment who we might not have thought would be playing at the level they are 2 years ago...

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Troy Nathan will be Irish qualified soon. :pac:

I thought Troy was Irish qualified prior to he travelling here with an All Blacks underage team, where he was signed up by Connacht.

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

You know, I think McFadden is more of a 12...

Has he ever played there?

BigDuffman

Honestly never even thought of what the hell we'll do when BOD hangs up his boots. Doesn't bare thinking of! But Darce or Bowe would be worthy enough

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has he ever played there?

Yes, but I would say he's more accustomed to playing 13.

I think his skill set could end up suiting 12 more than 13, but that's something he'll have to develop into. Our backline could end up being:

9. O'Donoghue
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. Macken
14. Carr (if/when he returns)/D. Kearney
15. Kearney/Conway

Podge_irl

He's been dropped from the feckin squad again for the Brive game though. He's undoutedly Leinster's second best 13 imo, and would make a decent stab at 12. I hate to see Berne getting in ahead of him. I know covers 10, but its damn unfortunate. We can afford to lose McFadden far less than we could afford to lose Jones and Carr.

twinytwo

padser wrote: »

I BOD got injured tomorrow - by far and away the most obvious choice for replacing him is Darcy.

I also think Darcy may have a stint in the jersey if BOD retires after the WC (Darcy might have 2 years of international rugby left in him at that stage given that he is a year younger and has spent a fair bit of time out injured) -

Longer term you have to think Fitz, Earls or Bowe will take the jersey (it's hard to see someone like Cave moving ahead of them) with Kearney at full back it will take someone special to displace one of those from the team.

I think a far more interesting question is who will be Ireland's 12.

he may not.... i think alot of our current squad will retire after the wc

FridaysWell

Mc Fadden

Cave/Whitten

Macken? Hmm

Would certainly like to see Mc Fadden or Cave gettin some game time against Italy! Or Wales

irishbucsfan

FridaysWell wrote: »

Mc Fadden

Cave/Whitten

Macken? Hmm

Would certainly like to see Mc Fadden or Cave gettin some game time against Italy! Or Wales

Unfortunately, based on this season so far, neither Cave nor McFadden deserve any international rugby in this 6 nations.

redzerdrog

i dont think earls will ever be strong enough to fill bods position. when bod does retire it will be his amazing defence we will miss the most i think

Shoota

A world without BOD, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo

The man is my hero!

Still,I reckon Earls is going to step up this 6 nations, without Fitzgerald there, he has a place to make his own, and hes bulked up so much since the Lions tour. I think with a master like BOD around he cant help but pick up a few defensive tricks!

Pride Fighter

I think BOD will want to stay on the Ireland panel for another 2 years after the WC. He would want to make a 4th Lions tour which would be a remarkable achievement.

Also BOD is irreplaceable, a once in a lifetime player.

Size=everything

Macken will be the natural 13 successor.

Diamondmaker

BOD retire ? :eek:

I just assumed he would be there forever !

Mc fadden based on CH Cup for me.

toomevara

Diamondmaker wrote: »

BOD retire ? :eek:

I just assumed he would be there forever !
.

Yeah, how is that cloning thing coming on anyhoo?...sounds like the best option.

PhatPiggins

Size=everything wrote: »

Macken will be the natural 13 successor.

Bold claim seeing as he'll do well to get any game time at leinster over the next 4 years.

Maybe a few seasons in Connacht would be of benefit.

Size=everything

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Bold claim seeing as he'll do well to get any game time at leinster over the next 4 years.

Maybe a few seasons in Connacht would be of benefit.

I disagree. With the IRFU player management scheme he will be able to get game time at 13 in the coming seasons.

PhatPiggins

Size=everything wrote: »

I disagree. With the IRFU player management scheme he will be able to get game time at 13 in the coming seasons.

You mean when they rest players for the unimportant ML games!

This is a thread about BOD's replacement for Ireland/Leinster he'll hardly get a look in in the Irish squads playing 4 or so games a season for the next three years.

Far better to play regularly at another club. There seems to be still the attitude amongst some of the young Leinster/Munster tyro's that they re better off being reserves in their own provence then playing every week for Connacht/Ulster.

Size=everything

PhatPiggins wrote: »

You mean when they rest players for the unimportant ML games!

This is a thread about BOD's replacement for Ireland/Leinster he'll hardly get a look in in the Irish squads playing 4 or so games a season for the next three years.

Far better to play regularly at another club. There seems to be still the attitude amongst some of the young Leinster/Munster tyro's that they re better off being reserves in their own provence then playing every week for Connacht/Ulster.

Considering that O'Driscoll played 0 games for Leinster before starting for Ireland I wouldn't be so sure

Your not factoring in Ireland A games, Leinster starts in ML due to player management scheme, Leinster starts in ML and HC due to possible injuries, Cheika resting O'Driscoll outside of player management scheme, substitutional appearances in ML and HC etc.

If Macken is going to be as good as he looks he will certainly find game time. Players who aren't starting for their provinces have ended up in Irish 22s before.

twinytwo

Size=everything wrote: »

Considering that O'Driscoll played 0 games for Leinster before starting for Ireland I wouldn't be so sure

Your not factoring in Ireland A games, Leinster starts in ML due to player management scheme, Leinster starts in ML and HC due to possible injuries, Cheika resting O'Driscoll outside of player management scheme, substitutional appearances in ML and HC etc.

If Macken is going to be as good as he looks he will certainly find game time. Players who aren't starting for their provinces have ended up in Irish 22s before.

big difference between then and now... Has it happened since?... if your not starting for any of the 4 provinces these days/ club outside of ireland you can more or less forget about playing for ireland

dub_skav

twinytwo wrote: »

big difference between then and now... Has it happened since?... if your not starting for any of the 4 provinces these days/ club outside of ireland you can more or less forget about playing for ireland

Stringer?

Very different situation I know, but it's not to say that if Kidney sees something that the provincial manager doesn't he might elevate them. For an example see mcgeechan picking Earls for squad when he couldn't start for province or country

danthefan

dub_skav wrote: »

Stringer?

Very different situation I know, but it's not to say that if Kidney sees something that the provincial manager doesn't he might elevate them. For an example see mcgeechan picking Earls for squad when he couldn't start for province or country

You talking about the Lions? Earls started basically every game for Munster last season.

Amazotheamazing

twinytwo wrote: »

big difference between then and now... Has it happened since?... if your not starting for any of the 4 provinces these days/ club outside of ireland you can more or less forget about playing for ireland

Not so, Stringer is still in the 22 and MOD and Ryan have both been capped in the last 18 months despite neither ever being ahead of POC or DOC for serious games. If you're good enough you'll get picked.

twinytwo

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Not so, Stringer is still in the 22 and MOD and Ryan have both been capped in the last 18 months despite neither ever being ahead of POC or DOC for serious games. If you're good enough you'll get picked.

im refering to new players coming through... stringer has been playing international for the last 9 years

If D'Arcy's still playing when BOD hangs up his boots, he will have to be 13.

There was a thread on here about a year ago, and quite a few people agreed that had BOD not been BOD, that D'Arcy could've been an absolute Superstar at 13. He was squeezed out of position by being second best to the absolute best, and he was unfortunate in this case. I really think if BOD was injured (touch wood) or rested for a game in the 6N, D'Arcy could light the field up.

With regards to long term replacements, it is exceptionally difficult to envisage who will be playing out of their skin in 2 years time.

2 years ago people were calling for Sexton to be shipped off the Leinster squad, now, I wouldn't want anyone else at 10.

A lot will and can change in 2 years.

anonymous_joe

Deleted User wrote: »

If D'Arcy's still playing when BOD hangs up his boots, he will have to be 13.

There was a thread on here about a year ago, and quite a few people agreed that had BOD not been BOD, that D'Arcy could've been an absolute Superstar at 13. He was squeezed out of position by being second best to the absolute best, and he was unfortunate in this case. I really think if BOD was injured (touch wood) or rested for a game in the 6N, D'Arcy could light the field up.

With regards to long term replacements, it is exceptionally difficult to envisage who will be playing out of their skin in 2 years time.

2 years ago people were calling for Sexton to be shipped off the Leinster squad, now, I wouldn't want anyone else at 10.

A lot will and can change in 2 years.

Wasn't D;Arcy 6 Nations player of the Tournament in like 06.

D'Arcy was asked to skip his leaving cert at 18 to tour with the senior side. He was always going to be big and he made it big.

TitoPuente

I think it's a bit too early to say who BOD's successor at 13 will be to be honest. McFadden and Macken seem like a good bet but we'll have to see how they progress. The thing about BOD though - it's not just his natural talent and incredible rugby brain that needs to be replaced. It's also his inspiring commitment and balls-on-the-line attitude. He's one of the, if not the, most natural leaders by example in world rugby. It's that attitude that needs to be imparted not just to his successor but to any new guys coming up through the Leinster academy and into the Ireland squad from every province.

If McFadden and Macken decide that they want to pick up the mantle, commit their souls to the cause of Irish rugby and dedicate every drop of sweat and blood into their training then there's no reason why they can't be worthy successors. If they simply go through the motions then they won't.

I suspect after New Zealand next year that we'll need a replacement 13 but don't expect him to be a leader overnight. We'll need a replacement leader. It'll be time for the guys who are still there to really step up - Heaslip, POC, Ferris, Bowe, etc. really need to keep the fire burning (not that they're not stoking it already of course!)

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Wasn't D;Arcy 6 Nations player of the Tournament in like 06.

D'Arcy was asked to skip his leaving cert at 18 to tour with the senior side. He was always going to be big and he made it big.

He did his best in the early years not to make it big. If i remember correctly he had a season or two of messing around coaches, not training etc. I stand to be corrected on this.

Also, player of the tournament in '06 doesn't translate as a Superstar to me. Gavin Henson won player of the tournament before. He's ****e

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

He did his best in the early years not to make it big. If i remember correctly he had a season or two of messing around coaches, not training etc. I stand to be corrected on this.

Also, player of the tournament in '06 doesn't translate as a Superstar to me. Gavin Henson won player of the tournament before. He's ****e

it wasnt that he was ****e it was that he wasted a god given talent

danthefan

Deleted User wrote: »

He did his best in the early years not to make it big. If i remember correctly he had a season or two of messing around coaches, not training etc. I stand to be corrected on this.

Also, player of the tournament in '06 doesn't translate as a Superstar to me. Gavin Henson won player of the tournament before. He's ****e

Complete nonsense, at his best he was a very good player. People don't like his personal life so judge him on that rather than what he actually did on the field.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Complete nonsense, at his best he was a very good player. People don't like his personal life so judge him on that rather than what he actually did on the field.

Complete nonsense? When did I say "he was never a good player"? He's ****e = present tense.

Gavin Henson had one good season, no consistency, bottled many a big game, and to be honest, wasn't worth the hype. Anyway, thats getting off point...

D'Arcy could've been one of the best 13s rugby ever saw, but unfortunately for him, he had to try beat the best 13 rugby ever saw for the position.

danthefan

Are you for real? You're clearly talking about the past when he won player of the tournament. See here:

Also, player of the tournament in '06 doesn't translate as a Superstar to me. Gavin Henson won player of the tournament before.

Is saying 'he's ****e' competely unrelated to the above? Either keep your points all in the same tense or give it a rest with the pedantry.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Are you for real? You're clearly talking about the past when he won player of the tournament. See here:



Is saying 'he's ****e' competely unrelated to the above? Either keep your points all in the same tense or give it a rest with the pedantry.

really don't want to derail the thread with silly back and forth ****e but.

What I was saying is that pretty much anyone on a good run can win player of the tournament. I used Gavin Henson as a prime example. A player who is not World Class, and wouldn't make the 22 of any of the best of teams of the last ten years.

I was showing that Gordan D'Arcy, though a winner of player of the tournament in '06, could've had a status similar to O'Driscoll's Player of the Decade, on every best of team there has been for years, and all round reknowned as one of the best rugby players on the planet IF there had not been BOD standing in the way of the 13 jersey.

Do you get me now? One great season does not make a superstar.

danthefan

I don't agree he was ever ****e and he was always a decent player (when fit) but I take your point.

D'Arcy would never been as good as BOD either imo.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

D'Arcy would never been as good as BOD either imo.

absolutely agreed.

BOD is a whole different kettle of fish.