Part of a multipack, not for individual resale?

Ghandee

In my local Spar today, I bought a can of coke zero, king crisps, and an ice cream marsbar.
Only when I returned home, I noticed that the three items listed (I bought other items too) but the three mentioned above ALL had the part of multipack warnings on them?
Is this legal what their doing???? Surely not?

Are we supposed to report them, or challenge the student doing the till?

ScouseMouse

Quite legal.

But one last thought, whats the point of challenging the "student on the till"?

Do you think its their doing?

Ghandee

How can this be legal?
If I can buy a 6pack of tins of coke for 3euro and a single can for a euro, surely the shop pay one price for cans on their own, and a better price for buying a 6pack?
And on a closing note, why do Kings, Mars and Coke bother putting multipack warnings on their product? I mean if the retailers doing nithing wrong by splitting the multipacks, why the warnings?

Hogzy

Cant speak for the coke or the mars bar but usually crisps that are part of a multipack are really small packets?

Used to work in a shop and the amount of Multipacks of crisps that were opened at the top was unreal, it happens really easily so we used to sell the individual smaller bags (usually as part of a meal deal). Same happened with cans of soft drink that came in 6 or 12 packs. If one leaks then you cant sell them so we broke them up and sold them off cheap

dave98

gucky, you have a lot to worry you. A lot of smaller shops SPAR/ Londis etc are struggling to stay a float with the likes of Lidl/Aldi/Tesco etc buying/selling at discounted prices. As #Hogzy said, what do you expect the shop to do if one can out of a 6 pack is dagaged? Throw them away/give them to the staff? That might have happened 2 years ago. Now shops have common business sence and sell it off.

And as for reporting them, asking if you "have to do it", sounds like you want to do it. Its your decision but I'd think little of people that would report shops for this.

Ghandee

Look, it's a simple question?
Nowhere in the post have i said I WOULD report them, I merely asked is this SUPPOSED to happen?
I am curious as to whether or not Coke/cadburys or WHOEVER endorse the practice of shopkeepers splitting multipacks and selling them individually as single products?

Why I'm asking if it's legal or not is because the products clearly display instructions that the can was part of a multipack and is NOT to be sd seperately!!!!!!!

Jeez, sorry for asking now.

Ghandee

[QUOTE=

And as for reporting them, asking if you "have to do it", sounds like you want to do it. Its your decision but I'd think little of people that would report shops for this.[/QUOTE]

where in post do I ask this exactly btw?

randomer

Red bull says on the can that it gives you wings. I drank five cans and didn't get any wings.

Am I supposed to report them?

Hogzy

OP its probably not illegal to sell them on and tbh i seriously doubt Cadburys or Coca Cola would take any action against shop keepers for splitting multipacks. If they were stopped from doing so they would probably order less or order none at all.

Its just good business practice to let it slide, at the end of the day nobody is really losing out.

It would be different however if a shop ONLY bought multipacks and alsways split them to sell seperatly, Companies would probably definetly get a little fusy about this

Ghandee

Hogzy wrote: »

OP its probably not illegal to sell them on and tbh i seriously doubt Cadburys or Coca Cola would take any action against shop keepers for splitting multipacks. If they were stopped from doing so they would probably order less or order none at all.

Its just good business practice to let it slide, at the end of the day nobody is really losing out.

It would be different however if a shop ONLY bought multipacks and alsways split them to sell seperatly, Companies would probably definetly get a little fusy about this

Thanks Hogzy, that's all I was after, a sensible answer to an honest question.
As you yourself pointed out, crisps from a multipack are always to a smaller weight/bag. Therfore I'm paying full whack fir a bag if crisps that isn't giving me the proper portion that should be in a bag that I have bought.
I'm sure if people started to get 18fags in their boxes of Benson instead of 20 there would be an uproar about it.
Hence why I placed this post in the rip off section!

the groutch

if sell out of a multipack means you're getting a smaller prooduct for same price, then I'd make an issue of it

otherwsie I'd let it be because I might be this practice which is helping stop alot of small shops from going out of business and putting even more people on the dole

ScouseMouse

randomer wrote: »

Red bull says on the can that it gives you wings. I drank five cans and didn't get any wings.

Am I supposed to report them?

Bloody hell, I should be an astronaut by now

Sorry mods, couldnt resist it.

ScouseMouse

the groutch wrote: »

if sell out of a multipack means you're getting a smaller prooduct for same price, then I'd make an issue of it

otherwsie I'd let it be because I might be this practice which is helping stop alot of small shops from going out of business and putting even more people on the dole

The multipacks of king are a small bag. Coke is the same size and mars could be either.

ScouseMouse

Gucky wrote: »

And on a closing note, why do Kings, Mars and Coke bother putting multipack warnings on their product? I mean if the retailers doing nithing wrong by splitting the multipacks,

Because the manufacturer doesnt like it. But literally, they have no say.

astrofool

They could sell the individual crisps for €100 a piece if they wanted to.

The warning is between the retailer and the supplier, the cost price they get them in it is very similar between a multipack and single items (if you divide the cost price of the multi pack), again, as long as the weight of the packs is displayed clearly, they can sell them at whatever price they want. The retailer forego the higher margin of single items by selling a higher price good when they sell multi packs.

But seriously, what would you demand? The mark up on small goods is huge in a convenience store, you know this (or should) when you buy the item.

gerrycollins

Gucky wrote: »

How can this be legal?
If I can buy a 6pack of tins of coke for 3euro and a single can for a euro, surely the shop pay one price for cans on their own, and a better price for buying a 6pack?
And on a closing note, why do Kings, Mars and Coke bother putting multipack warnings on their product? I mean if the retailers doing nithing wrong by splitting the multipacks, why the warnings?

would anyone have an issue if the prices were adjusted accordingly?

The multipack warning in many cases is put in place of the barcode. They're not supposed to sell them separately but I don't know if there's anything illegal about it as such. I've seen some shops print out their own barcodes and stick them on split multipack items.

quinnthebin

the groutch wrote: »

if sell out of a multipack means you're getting a smaller prooduct for same price, then I'd make an issue of it

otherwsie I'd let it be because I might be this practice which is helping stop alot of small shops from going out of business and putting even more people on the dole

If it's not illegal then I guess the only problem would be between the retailer and wholesaler . However, If it was illegal then it's hardly justifiable by saying the practice is keeping a lot of small shops from going out of business. (perhaps that's not what your suggesting though)

I always thought it was illegal but I've learnt something new

Shelflife

Are we also to report the customer who breaks the multi packs --because i only want one?

take them out and lynch them i say, a damn good thrashing is what they want. :rolleyes:

Shelflife

or you could but a little tear or mark on the product and bring it back for a refund .

thatsa spicy

As somebody who drinks a lot of coke, I can assure you that the multi-pack cans are definately of lower quality than the individual cans that should be on display. They don't taste as strong as the coke from indiviual cans/ bottles. Similarly, you should never buy a 2 litre botte that has the yellow labbelling telling you its part of a multi-pack; it is more diluted than usual.

katkin

Who says its not illegal? I would say it is and they should be reported to the relevant authorities, don't we have a Consumer Authority or something in this country. I've no sympathy for Spar or Centra, they ripped us off big time for years. This is a shop trying to sell off unsold Christmas multipacks individually, which if were damaged by being opened should be sold off cheaper.

Rulmeq

There is only one rule when it comes to this. The retailer agrees to sell, the customer agrees to buy. If you don't want to buy it, you don't. The labels have as much legal authority as I do.

The only items that can't be sold individually are cigarettes (in Ireland).

If you really want to screw with the shopkeepers minds, then ask them where their price list is.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/pricing/price_display_of_goods_and_services

That's a legal requirement that you can get your local shop done for if you are really petty.

Ghandee

Shelflife wrote: »

or you could but a little tear or mark on the product and bring it back for a refund .

If I wanted to listen to bull cr@p I'd take up farming.

Rulmeq

katkin wrote: »

Who says its not illegal? I would say it is and they should be reported to the relevant authorities, don't we have a Consumer Authority or something in this country. I've no sympathy for Spar or Centra, they ripped us off big time for years. This is a shop trying to sell off unsold Christmas multipacks individually, which if were damaged by being opened should be sold off cheaper.

I have to take you up on the rip-off part, against my better judgment, because I always get dogs abuse when I say this, but because we are in a capitalistic market there is no such thing as a rip-off. If you feel that you are being charged too much, you are free to shop elsewhere, if you also feel that there aren't enough alternatives then you are also free to set up in direct competition with them. The only people being ripped off are those who are willing to be.

Of course there is a rip-off going on in Ireland, but it's happening in the non-capitalist portions of the market, the only sectors where prices aren't falling are in the sectors provided by government or government related monopolies. In an era of deflation it is abhorrent that prices are increasing in these sectors.

Meh, I'm going to regret hitting submit on this

ScouseMouse

Rulmeq wrote: »

I have to take you up on the rip-off part, against my better judgment, because I always get dogs abuse when I say this, but because we are in a capitalistic market there is no such thing as a rip-off. If you feel that you are being charged too much, you are free to shop elsewhere, if you also feel that there aren't enough alternatives then you are also free to set up in direct competition with them. The only people being ripped off are those who are willing to be.

Of course there is a rip-off going on in Ireland, but it's happening in the non-capitalist portions of the market, the only sectors where prices aren't falling are in the sectors provided by government or government related monopolies. In an era of deflation it is abhorrent that prices are increasing in these sectors.

Meh, I'm going to regret hitting submit on this

You may get dogs abuse, but you are saying it as it is. It seems to be trendy to knock the little shops and cry out about how the ripoffs are soooo terrible, but at least half of them are not ripoffs at all.

Just this week, McVities biscuits tried to impose a price INCREASE, my wholesale group refused to accept it.

This morning I was notified that 02 and meteor are putting up the price of phone topups to the shops. Anyone that does not have a surcharge is a fool. Its pretty much not worth our while without it.

Someone will accuse me of robbing them, of ripping them off, but if they dont like it - TOUGH, complain to 02 and Meteor.

randomer

superscouse wrote: »

You may get dogs abuse, but you are saying it as it is. It seems to be trendy to knock the little shops and cry out about how the ripoffs are soooo terrible, but at least half of them are not ripoffs at all.

Just this week, McVities biscuits tried to impose a price INCREASE, my wholesale group refused to accept it.

This morning I was notified that 02 and meteor are putting up the price of phone topups to the shops. Anyone that does not have a surcharge is a fool. Its pretty much not worth our while without it.

Someone will accuse me of robbing them, of ripping them off, but if they dont like it - TOUGH, complain to 02 and Meteor.

As a matter of interest, how much do a store make when they sell a 10 or 20 euro mobile phone topup, without the surcharge?

Rulmeq

randomer wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how much do a store make when they sell a 10 or 20 euro mobile phone topup, without the surcharge?

The last time I checked it was about 3.5% (there is a middle man in this transaction who apparently set the price, or so Vodafone and O2 will tell you). I should point out that anything below 18% in a small shop is loss making (assuming they have staff, if they are just the owners then the break even point drops to about 10%)

Shops who don't charge a surcharge have basically given up on the idea of making money from them, and just hope the customers will buy other stuff. The problem with this is that most transactions for phone credit don't involve other goods. I'm convinced that the phone companies have taken all the cash that teenagers used to spend on junk (which probably isn't a bad thing when you think about it)

Padraig Mor

Hogzy wrote: »

Its just good business practice to let it slide, at the end of the day nobody is really losing out.

Well, the customer is losing out. The multipacks are supplied to the retailer at a lower cost per unit so that the customer can make a saving when buying a multipack. Retailers splitting the packs are keeping this saving from the customer and using it instead to increase their profit margin.

Hogzy

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Well, the customer is losing out. The multipacks are supplied to the retailer at a lower cost per unit so that the customer can make a saving when buying a multipack. Retailers splitting the packs are keeping this saving from the customer and using it instead to increase their profit margin.

So what do you expect them to do with multipacks that have broken in transit or storage, send them back to coca cola? Its easier for Coca cola and the retailer to just sell it to the consumer, it reduces loss significantly.And at the end of the day you are getting the same product simply without a barcode.

Iv no way to prove this but im sure there is not much of a difference in buying say a slab of coke 24 cans single and buying a 24 slab of 2 x 12 cans...
The retailer is the one who lowers the price for purchases in bulk (ie the multipack), Why would the wholesaler sell 24 cans of the same product (whether multipack or not) at different prices. It doesnt make sense. There is always a discount when buying in bulk and thats what a multipack does it reduces your cost because you are buying more than one product.

neilthefunkeone

Yeah dont know who you can even report it to.. But the shop is making more profit selling them seperatly then in a multipack.. best thing is give your business to somewhere else.. Independent instead of a large greedy company like spar!!

ScouseMouse

randomer wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how much do a store make when they sell a 10 or 20 euro mobile phone topup, without the surcharge?

It used to be about 10% So for a tenner, we got about 1 euro.

Then the cost went up so it erroded to 7%

Then it went up again and it dropped to 5%

Now its going up again and the commission will drop to about 3.5 % This is a reduction of about 70% over the last couple of years.

ANYONE SEE A PATTERN HERE?

I have to charge a surcharge. To not do so makes it unviable. On top of this, we get a rebate per year of about half of 1%.

Not worth it really.

The ususal excuse of "it brings customers into your shop" is crap. Most dont buy anything else!

Hogzy

superscouse wrote: »

The ususal excuse of "it brings customers into your shop" is crap. Most dont buy anything else!

True! I dont think iv ever gone into a shop to buy credit and come out with more than that. And TBH if shops have to charge more than 20 or 10 or 5 for credit then people simply wont buy credit in shops, you can go to an atm or online banking and get it commission free.

ScouseMouse

Hogzy wrote: »

True! I dont think iv ever gone into a shop to buy credit and come out with more than that. And TBH if shops have to charge more than 20 or 10 or 5 for credit then people simply wont buy credit in shops, you can go to an atm or online banking and get it commission free.

so be it then

We cannot sell stock for nothing !

Hogzy

superscouse wrote: »

so be it then

We cannot sell stock for nothing !

Its a shame really because mobile phone companies really are fleecing people!
Whether it be a customer or a shopkeeper.

rubadub

Hogzy wrote: »

The retailer is the one who lowers the price for purchases in bulk (ie the multipack), Why would the wholesaler sell 24 cans of the same product (whether multipack or not) at different prices. It doesnt make sense. There is always a discount when buying in bulk and thats what a multipack does it reduces your cost because you are buying more than one product.

A lot of assumptions there, and many retailers prey on people like yourself. There are several threads with people moaning about mulitpacks being more expensive than standard ones, people like yourself who say there is ALWAYS a discount are the ones being caught out by the smart retailers.

More often that not the mulitpacks of 2L coke bottles in my tesco are more expensive than if bought singly, I see people just pick them off the shelf, probably making the same presumptions.

Just go into musgraves and you will see that mulitpacks are often cheaper to the retailer, it is the manufacturer who is usually passing on this lower price.

Why would the wholesaler sell 24 cans of the same product (whether multipack or not) at different prices. It doesnt make sense.

It does make sense to me, if somebody went into dunnes to get christmas mixers in and was going to buy 4 bottles of particular drinks their mind might be changed if they saw a good value mulitpack. People tend to consume the bigger packs quicker too so they probably sell more in the long run. The manufacturer wants the retailer to still be able to make the same profits so offers it at a discount to them, hoping they will pass this on to the customer.

Hogzy

^ Fair enough i suppose

Ghandee

Having read various replies fom both sides of the divide, I feel it's time I put my oar in.
Granted, I feel every sympathy for the small shopkeepers in this country, and I'm sure Tescos and the likes must be a mighty thorn in your sides.
HOWEVER:
as a few folk from the "we can charge what we like party" have pointed out, things get damaged, multipacks get split etc etc. I for one won't argue against that, but to then say something like are we supposed to give them to staff etc?
Well the answer to that is, no. No of course not, but what you should NOT do is put it on the shelf next to the normal/non multipack items. How many times have we walked into a shop to see various things in a little bin or basket with reduced to clear written on it?
These usually include items approaching sell by dates etc. If a multipack is split or a can is bust/ crisp packet opened. Put these items on a reduced to clear bin! That's why no one ever complains about buying a marsbar a week past it's sell by date, when the consumer benefits directly!
Charging customers full value for things from multipacks singly, whilst may or may not be legal (I'm the first to admit I don't know!) only makes us resent spending money in these shops go begin with, and as a result isvtarring a lot of small honest businesses with thevsame brush as the sneaks who have robbed us blind during the boom, and who try to do it still!

Shelflife

Gucky if for example a retailer buys a multipack of say coke , its the exact same as a regular coke apart from the (part of a multi pack) label. what harm has been done to the consumer?
they have got what they wanted at the usual price, the retailer manages to eek another few cents to pay his costs and believe me there are alot of small shops out there that are struggling to pay wages banks etc.

if however the multipack product is smaller and its being sold for the same price then that i disagree with.

thatsa spicy

Shelflife wrote: »

Gucky if for example a retailer buys a multipack of say coke , its the exact same as a regular coke apart from the (part of a multi pack) label. what harm has been done to the consumer?
they have got what they wanted at the usual price, the retailer manages to eek another few cents to pay his costs and believe me there are alot of small shops out there that are struggling to pay wages banks etc.

if however the multipack product is smaller and its being sold for the same price then that i disagree with.

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

As somebody who drinks a lot of coke, I can assure you that the multi-pack cans are definately of lower quality than the individual cans that should be on display. They don't taste as strong as the coke from indiviual cans/ bottles. Similarly, you should never buy a 2 litre botte that has the yellow labbelling telling you its part of a multi-pack; it is more diluted than usual.

That's complete and utter BS and all in your head. It's the exact same product. Do you really think there is a seperate production run of diluted coke to make it cheaper to produce ? lol

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

You're imagining it.

ScouseMouse

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

You have convinced yourself its different - but its not.

Its your imagination.

thatsa spicy

Both of you, how much coke do yous drink?

Ive been drinking, I regret to say, 2-litre bottles of the stuff 4 or 5 times a week for years and years and because of this I really can taste when the stuff is weaker than usual.
The coke from the individual 2-litre bottles that you find in the supermarket tastes better than the coke found in the 2-litre bottle found in the twin-pack (or triple-pack). It is not in my head; on more than one occasion I've been handed a glass of the twin pack stuff and have correctly judged it to be from a twin pack bottle.

I've also, on many occasions, purchased 6-can packs, 12-can packs and 24-can packs (where each individual can has a yellow ring around the top of the can, with the words "not to be sold as part of a multi-pack" written on it).
Now, I have also purchased 24-can slabs from garages....these are the cans that the shops put in the fridge...the individual cans that sell for approx 1 euro each....the ones that dont have any yellow multipack label on them. The individual cans from the garages, taste sweeter and generally nicer than the ones from the 24-can multi packs from the supermarkets.

I appreciate why you might say it's all in my head; after all, how many people say that coke is nicest, firstly, out of a glass bottle, then a can, then a plastic bottle? Most people would say this in my experience, and this is actually all in the head in my coke-experienced opinion. I think in this case it is because
1. glass bottle= nostalgia...smaller amount of coke implies nicer
2. can = you can't close it so you drink it before it goes flat
3 bottle= goes flat if you don't drink it quick enough

So yeah...and it pisses me off when I see a shop trying to get away with selling multi-pack cans or twin pack 2-litre bottles of coke as though they are not from a multi-pack/ twin-pack.


Please, somebody confirm to me that they agree that the multi-pack cans and twin pack 2-litre bottles are of lower quality than the individual cans/ 2-litre bottles!!

thatsa spicy

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

That's complete and utter BS and all in your head. It's the exact same product. Do you really think there is a seperate production run of diluted coke to make it cheaper to produce ? lol

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

jor el

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

Taste is subjective though.

On the issue at hand, it's not illegal for the retailer to open and sell multipack products individually. However, it's probably against the producer/supplier's wishes, in which case they could potentially refuse to supply the retailer in future. The supplier takes part of the price hit on multipack items, as does the retailer (if there is a price reduction on the multipack, that is), and if the retailer is breaking them up and selling them at full cost then the supplier is at a loss. They probably wouldn't be too happy about that, but whether they'd actually do anything or not is another thing all together.

It's doubtful that any wholesale provider would refuse business, especially in the current climate. They might just ask the retailer to not do that in future, if even that.

astrofool

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

So you think a crisp company has two seperate manufacturing lines, as in, two sets of chipping machines, two sets of cooking machines, two sets of flavouring machines so they can make smaller packets? Do you even realise what it costs to set up a production line like that, and how ridiculous that would be? They cook and prepare the crisps the same way, at the end, the machine which sorts them is set to a different weight per item, and is fed in smaller/bigger bags to suit.

For coke, the only difference will be between can/plastic/glass as the coke will react with all slightly differently, and very very slightly alter the taste as a result.

All coke going into bottles has the same dilution, is fed off the same product, using the same water. The labelling happens as a seperate process once bottled, so it's just chance that determines if a batch is multipack or not.

You also imply the multipack is weaker, i.e. inferior product. This is of course you incorrectly presuming that there would be a cost difference and they would save money by making the multipacks cheaper. This is of course crap, adjusting the machine to make it weaker would erode any cost saving, and the actual cost of liquid coke to manufacture is too small for it to make a difference either way.

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

That's because most multi pack crisps are smaller in weight = less crisps per pack. As has already been explained there is a big difference between packaging into different size bags versus changing the product completely. Different sizes are available in most brands - take cornflakes there is not a seperate production run for 1kg, 750g and 500g packs with a 4th one for the mini one serving pack too.

For what it's worth I am a huge fan of Coke Zero myself so much so that I could tell the difference in taste between the various bottling plants, be it imported from outside of Ireland or from a UK source or indeed a different taste again for european production. Last year production of our coke moved to NI and the taste changed slightly. I could tell the difference between what was old stock and the new stock. I'm just wondering is this what you picked up on and have mistakenly labelled as being the difference between the multi packs.

thatsa spicy

Sorry, I wasn't thinking properly with regard to the whole "production line" thing. Obviously coke and the crisp companies are not going to have 2 completely sepreate production lines running from start to finish to produce 2 almost similar products; what I'm suggesting is that the product which is to be sold as part of a multi-pack is then put through a further process....coke is diluted somewhat and crisps are put into smaller bags.

I simply wont believe that multi-pack coke is no different to indivdual can coke because I can taste the difference..its not just in my head!

thatsa spicy

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Last year production of our coke moved to NI and the taste changed slightly. I could tell the difference between what was old stock and the new stock. I'm just wondering is this what you picked up on and have mistakenly labelled as being the difference between the multi packs.

Just read this...this may be the case but Multi-pack cans bought in the republic also taste diluted!

But 2-litre twin-pack bottles bought up north taste very unlike individual 2-litre bottles bought in the republic...these are far sweeter

thatsa spicy

astrofool wrote: »

So you think a crisp company has two seperate manufacturing lines, as in, two sets of chipping machines, two sets of cooking machines, two sets of flavouring machines so they can make smaller packets? Do you even realise what it costs to set up a production line like that, and how ridiculous that would be? They cook and prepare the crisps the same way, at the end, the machine which sorts them is set to a different weight per item, and is fed in smaller/bigger bags to suit.

I assumed this of course but you're correct, I ddn't make it obvious in my post.