ps3 and small claims court

Slick50

Manc Red wrote: »

Called Xtravision and asked what I could do. They said I could get a refurb but they didn't have any in stock at the moment so they are giving me the latest 160 model for 120 Euro as long as I give the old PS3 back.

Very miffed that I will lose my saves but there's a plethora of games I was intending to get anyway. :cool:

I wouldn't rely on xtravision or any other retailer to inform me of my consumer rights. If you read J Marston's posts in the previous page, you will see that he is being told the complete opposite to what you have been told. They are not doing you any favours taking €120 off you.

Manc Red

My console is about 3 years old tho. I am surprised they are doing anything to be honest and it sure beats spending €250 on a new model while trying to battle them for a few weeks and in the end not achieve anything.

We have been pretty regular customers so I am going to try and get a good deal on a new game as well.

If I am honest I was planning on getting the slim PS3 for Christmas anyway so it kind of worked out, especially with the new games that are out now.

johnny_adidas

I should point out that the retailer in my case was xtravision and it only took a scc letter (to the correct company name) to get a free 320gb replacement

J. Marston

SCC?

F1ngers

J. Marston wrote: »

SCC?

Small claims court. (Thread title is a bit of a giveaway)...:p

J. Marston

Ahh.

I feel stupid now .

Retr0gamer

Manc Red wrote: »

My console is about 3 years old tho. I am surprised they are doing anything to be honest and it sure beats spending €250 on a new model while trying to battle them for a few weeks and in the end not achieve anything.

We have been pretty regular customers so I am going to try and get a good deal on a new game as well.

If I am honest I was planning on getting the slim PS3 for Christmas anyway so it kind of worked out, especially with the new games that are out now.

And this is the reason why shops don't respect consumer rights because if they be dicks about it eventually someonewill come along and let them get away with it.

J. Marston

Rang the National Consumer Agency today. I told them that I wasn't happy with a refurb, they told me that I was entitled to either a repair, replacement or a refund. I've been offered a refurb which, I'm assuming, falls under the replacement category.
I was told that warranty does not matter, it shouldn't affect my statutory rights, so I'm not sure if I should go in to Xtravision demanding a refund now. I was told to print off a few things and bring them with me to let them know that I'm aware of my rights but I have a feeling that I will get fobbed off with ''You're getting a replacement, a refurb...'' despite me not being happy with it.

Retr0gamer

I think the law states that you don't have a choice between a repair, replacement or refund you should check, if they can offer one you have to take it I think. As I said check it out. A new slim is much better than a refurb which are usually dodgy. If they give you a refurb if it isn't from Sony then don't take it, they might be going to some cowboys for theirs. You should read up on consumer law as well and back over this thread.

wcarey1975

J. Marston wrote: »

Rang the National Consumer Agency today. I told them that I wasn't happy with a refurb, they told me that I was entitled to either a repair, replacement or a refund. I've been offered a refurb which, I'm assuming, falls under the replacement category.
I was told that warranty does not matter, it shouldn't affect my statutory rights, so I'm not sure if I should go in to Xtravision demanding a refund now. I was told to print off a few things and bring them with me to let them know that I'm aware of my rights but I have a feeling that I will get fobbed off with ''You're getting a replacement, a refurb...'' despite me not being happy with it.

I could be completely wrong but I dont think a refurb is a replacement.

J. Marston

I don't think it's a repair because if they were repairing it, they would take my console. Instead, they've just told me to bring in my faulty console on Thursday and my refurb will be waiting to be picked up.

theteal

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think the law states that you don't have a choice between a repair, replacement or refund you should check, if they can offer one you have to take it I think.

this is not true, you do not have to take any of the 3 "R"s BUT it may not work in your favour in the SCC that you've rejected a reasonable remedy

i'm a little split on this refurb issue. on one hand a refurb may be of the exact same quality as a repair to your own console - which is reasonable under consumer law. on the other hand, I would be very unhappy at not getting a new replacement for a 5 month old console (i mean, they just sit beside the telly, what can happen to them?!)

also, just an aside, i'd never advise anybody to buy electrical items from xtravision, their returns and repairs policies are not very customer oriented - to put it very mildly

Strangegravy

J. Marston wrote: »

Rang the National Consumer Agency today. I told them that I wasn't happy with a refurb, they told me that I was entitled to either a repair, replacement or a refund. I've been offered a refurb which, I'm assuming, falls under the replacement category.
I was told that warranty does not matter, it shouldn't affect my statutory rights, so I'm not sure if I should go in to Xtravision demanding a refund now. I was told to print off a few things and bring them with me to let them know that I'm aware of my rights but I have a feeling that I will get fobbed off with ''You're getting a replacement, a refurb...'' despite me not being happy with it.

In my eyes, a repair would be fixing your machine for you free of charge, a replacement would be swapping your machine for a new version of the same model you bought, and a refund is obvious.

Why would you accept a refurbished model when the one you bought is only 5 months old?

There's some great advice been given out in this thread, go as high as you need to go within the retailers ranks to get a outcome that you're satisfied with, head office, even making them ring them from the shop, etc.

And if that doesn't work you can always take it further, but don't let them fob you off, show a bit of backbone when talking to them, because they know that for a lot of people, fobbing them off will work.

Good luck with it!

whiterebel

theteal wrote: »

this is not true, you do not have to take any of the 3 "R"s BUT it may not work in your favour in the SCC that you've rejected a reasonable remedy

i'm a little split on this refurb issue. on one hand a refurb may be of the exact same quality as a repair to your own console - which is reasonable under consumer law. on the other hand, I would be very unhappy at not getting a new replacement for a 5 month old console (i mean, they just sit beside the telly, what can happen to them?!)

also, just an aside, i'd never advise anybody to buy electrical items from xtravision, their returns and repairs policies are not very customer oriented - to put it very mildly

They were great with my mother when the Mirai TV she bought went on the blink. She thought it was only a 1 year warranty, and the staff reminded here it was 3 years. They organised her old one to be picked up, and new one delivered.

wcarey1975

The biggest issue I see here is that the refurb only comes with a 3 month warranty whic would give the entire warranty period of only 8 or so months. That to me is prrof enough that this is neither a repair (as not original unit) or a replacement as they only have a very small warranty period and wont stand over it as they would a new original console.

At the end of the day it's up to you whether you accept it or not as it could run for years or could pack up again in 7 months. I know if it was me I wouldnt take it but I'd get everything in writing including the warranty perod from both Sony and the retailer. Anyway my 0.02c.

W

Varik

wcarey1975 wrote: »

The biggest issue I see here is that the refurb only comes with a 3 month warranty whic would give the entire warranty period of only 8 or so months. That to me is prrof enough that this is neither a repair (as not original unit) or a replacement as they only have a very small warranty period and wont stand over it as they would a new original console.

At the end of the day it's up to you whether you accept it or not as it could run for years or could pack up again in 7 months. I know if it was me I wouldnt take it but I'd get everything in writing including the warranty perod from both Sony and the retailer. Anyway my 0.02c.

W

Warranty does not matter.

If it does break in another 4 months then the shops solution to your "PS3 is broken" problem was not permanent, and the whole thing starts again with a possible new console.

J. Marston

Varik wrote: »

Warranty does not matter.

If it does break in another 4 months then the shops solution to your PS3 is broken problem was not permanent, and the whole thing starts again with a possible new console.

Sorry, could you explain that, please?

Varik

J. Marston wrote: »

Sorry, could you explain that, please?

Varik wrote: »

If it does break in another 4 months then the shops solution to your "PS3 is broken" problem was not permanent, and the whole thing starts again with a possible new console.

If you have a good/service that does not meet the requirement under consumer law you have 3 methods of recourse, repair, refund, or replacement. Any of these 3 options are meant to be permanent, if your offer an option that is not then one of the other option is needed.

Lmao_Man

Just to be clear, are some of the people who got offered refute those who got a ps3 around the release date ?

Thanks...

Slick50

wcarey1975 wrote: »

The biggest issue I see here is that the refurb only comes with a 3 month warranty whic would give the entire warranty period of only 8 or so months. That to me is prrof enough that this is neither a repair (as not original unit) or a replacement as they only have a very small warranty period and wont stand over it as they would a new original console.

At the end of the day it's up to you whether you accept it or not as it could run for years or could pack up again in 7 months. I know if it was me I wouldnt take it but I'd get everything in writing including the warranty perod from both Sony and the retailer. Anyway my 0.02c.

W

Another issue, for me, would be the refurb could be years old, and they want him to accept it as a replacement for a 5 month old machine.

J Marston, there are posts earlier in this thread, where people have posted the actual letters they sent to their retailers. If you have a look at them, it may give you a better idea how to present your case to head office.. you need to start doing this in writing, there is no point in going down to your local shop to try to argue this out at this stage. There is no way they should be expecting you to accept a refurb, if they are presenting this as a replacement tell them it is unacceptable, and that a new console is the only replacement you will accept. Under the "sale of goods and supply of services act 1980", they have to provide one of three options.. repair, replacement, or refund. Include this in any correspondence you send. Tell them you intend to persue this through the small claims court, if you don't get a satisfactory response from them. Also, let them know that you already have an incidence no. from sony, who told you, you would get a new console. They know they haven't a leg to stand on if you push this.

J. Marston

Okay, I've read through most of this thread. Some encouraging posts. I'm going down tomorrow to tell them that I'm not happy with a refurb. My console is only 5 months old and the refurb that it's being replaced with, while at a high standard, could be one or two years old and I don't think that's a fair replacement. I'll have some info with me such as the Sales of goods act. So hopefully it goes well.

I also read a good few pages back that the retailer would not be keen on repairing, they'd rather a replacement, would that be right?

Slick50

J. Marston wrote: »

I also read a good few pages back that the retailer would not be keen on repairing, they'd rather a replacement, would that be right?

None of the retailers seem to offer repairs of individual consoles. I would say this is down to sony, it would be a logistical nightmare for them with the ammount of machines coming back.
I wouldn't be too hopeful of the local store having a change of heart, they are taking instuctions from head office. But stick with it, and good luck.

viclemronny

Stage 1 - Verbal Negotiation

1)Go to the local store and explain the problem and your desired remedy. They will say no.

2)Speak to the manager on duty there and do the same if he wasn't the chap you spoke to.

3)Speak to the store manager, if you have to go back the next day, do so.

(Be polite but firm during all of this.)

If at this stage you aren't getting a replacement, refund or repair, continue with stage 2 - written negotiation.

Stage 2 - Written Negotiation

1)Send, by registered post (specifically use registered post as this creates a paper trail), a letter to the manager of your local store and to the head office outlining your problem and desired outcome. Detail your attempts at verbal negotiation. Send a copy of your receipt. (Photocopy, DO NOT SEND THE ORIGINAL). Include reference to the relevant sections fo the sale of goods act.

2)Keep copies of all registered post receipts, letters sent, letters received. Keep everything and maintain a polite but firm tone through all of this. If you still don't get anywhere, move to stage 3.

Stage 3 - Legal Action

1)Contact the small claims court and explain the situation to them and the steps you have already taken to address it.

2)The small claims court will contact the company and give them time to respond.

3)If they do not respond, it will go to the small claims court where your case will be heard in front of a judge. This is a bit off yet, so you can cross this bridge when you come to it.

4)The judge will make a ruling. This is final. You have either got the appropriate outcome (most likely) or not, one way or another, this is the end of the line.


I'd be surprise if things go all the way to court. I think there are some people here who might give you a case reference to include with your letters to head office as this will show the head office that the company will eventually loose and that it's just easier to deal with it quickly.

Best of luck.

Slick50

^^^^ in a nut shell. But e-mail is quicker and cheaper, you still have a record. You may get the e-mail address from the manager or their website.

impee

I live in London and bought my PS3 just over 3 years ago and it recently got the YLOD...I contacted Game via post twice and they insisted that "We Feel that as the machine has lasted over 3 years that this product has proved durable".

I logged a case with the Small Claims Court and Game responded back with the same defence, meaning I think I will most surely be seeing them in court. They also said they "have a statement from Sony which outlines their position on durability and inherent faults" - (obviously Sony will say the PS3 has no issues of faults), so for my own reference I have asked the court for a copy of that statement.

As Xmas coming up now, I don't see too much happening until the new year...but lets see. Either it will be a waste of £25 taking this to court or I get some compensation for my £299 piece of junk!

I read most of this thread, but not all...does anyone have an experience(s) with Game as to how they handle such cases?
In fact, I was thinking of printing this 48 page thread and hand it to the judge as a supporting statement of how wide spread this issue actually is.

Thanks.

Varik

impee wrote: »

I live in London and bought my PS3 just over 3 years ago and it recently got the YLOD...I contacted Game via post twice and they insisted that "We Feel that as the machine has lasted over 3 years that this product has proved durable".

I logged a case with the Small Claims Court and Game responded back with the same defence, meaning I think I will most surely be seeing them in court. They also said they "have a statement from Sony which outlines their position on durability and inherent faults" - (obviously Sony will say the PS3 has no issues of faults), so for my own reference I have asked the court for a copy of that statement.

As Xmas coming up now, I don't see too much happening until the new year...but lets see. Either it will be a waste of £25 taking this to court or I get some compensation for my £299 piece of junk!

I read most of this thread, but not all...does anyone have an experience(s) with Game as to how they handle such cases?
In fact, I was thinking of printing this 48 page thread and hand it to the judge as a supporting statement of how wide spread this issue actually is.

Thanks.

Can you clarify in what country you bought it, you mention sterling prices for both the PS3 and the court fee as well as only stating you live in London now (rather than then).

CashMoney

Lmao_Man wrote: »

Just to be clear, are some of the people who got offered refute those who got a ps3 around the release date ?

Thanks...

I too would like to know this. I bought a PS3 about 3 years ago in HMV and it now has blueray and game reading issues which looks like the laser issues that a lot of people seem to be getting. Have I any comback now or should I just go and buy an xbox because I'm fucked if I'm buying another PS3 after this....

impee

Varik wrote: »

Can you clarify in what country you bought it, you mention sterling prices for both the PS3 and the court fee as well as only stating you live in London now (rather than then).

I bought the PS3 in England and have always lived in London too, hence the Sterling prices.

norrie rugger

Irish and English courts take note of results of cases, in each country. So this thread would still be relevant

Varik

norrie rugger wrote: »

Irish and English courts take note of results of cases, in each country. So this thread would still be relevant

Can't check now as I'm on my phone but going by the uk consumer site example, a £400 fridge lasting 3 years would result in consumer paying for some or all the repair.

Going by irish results the same could be expected to last longer.