Replace split copper pipe with ?

oleras

I am sure i am not the only one in this position today !

I have split copper pipes that need replacing in the attic tomorrow. Should I use copper, and risk it splitting again or use qualpex ? It is the connection after the stopcock on the hydro pipe to the storage tank, maybe 1m, and the T from that to the small central heating header tank.



Since qualpex will expand what advantages does copper have over it ?

Buford T Justice

I'd go with the Qual plex. Its easier to move around and is flexible.

BTW, that pipe on the top right of your pic, I'd replace it too, that kink will cause problems at some stage.

10-10-20

That's hard water there by the look of it. The build-up has remained despite the burst - you probably have poor flow because of it.
Consider replacing that whole pipe. It's weakened from the frost.

oleras

10-10-20 wrote: »

That's hard water there by the look of it. The build-up has remained despite the burst - you probably have poor flow because of it.
Consider replacing that whole pipe. It's weakened from the frost.

I think i am going to replace everything with qualpex, if the only real difference is aesthetic, up in the attic anyway, cant really see a reason not to.

Joey the lips

Replace it with copper. Then lag all your pipes. You should always use copper if its copper as the electricians use this for earthing and your breaking the circuit by changing it.

Lagging is cheap. Use insulation tape to fix the lagging.

eoghan.geraghty

Joey the lips wrote: »

Replace it with copper. Then lag all your pipes. You should always use copper if its copper as the electricians use this for earthing and your breaking the circuit by changing it.

Lagging is cheap. Use insulation tape to fix the lagging.

I'd disagree with you on this joey, as the copper pipes should all be bonded by the electrician in the hotpress.
Replacing a section of copper pipe at the end of it's run in the attic should not affect the earth bonding.

Hellrazer

Im not a plumber but if you go with qualpex go for a ring and nut fitting and NOT those push in fittings that they sell you with qualpex.

The ice in the pipe expanded and pushed those push on fittings off 2 ends on a pipe on me this weekend.

I replaced them with ordinary ring and nut fittings as advised by the local hardware and plumbing crowd.

CJhaughey

Yep Compression fittings are the way to go with qualpex, The pipe is excellent, the push in fittings decidedly less so.
In fact and I have said it before the new push in fittings are even worse than the old ones, they have a plastic collar to allow the pipe to be removed and this can pull back against a rigid surface and pop the fitting off!
Stick with the plain brass compression and you will not regret it.

Xennon

As Joey said your should replace copper with copper, otherwise you are breaking the earth line. Now you could simply run some earth cable to the other side of the qualpex and bond it on to the copper end. The idea is that whatever is at the end of the pipe is earthed and safe.

Re the ice forcing the qualpex fittings apart, surely they shouldn't freeze in the first part? All piping should be insulated or run under the attic insulation imho.

oleras

Joey the lips wrote: »

Replace it with copper. Then lag all your pipes. You should always use copper if its copper as the electricians use this for earthing and your breaking the circuit by changing it.

Lagging is cheap. Use insulation tape to fix the lagging.

Xennon wrote: »

As Joey said your should replace copper with copper, otherwise you are breaking the earth line. Now you could simply run some earth cable to the other side of the qualpex and bond it on to the copper end. The idea is that whatever is at the end of the pipe is earthed and safe.

Re the ice forcing the qualpex fittings apart, surely they shouldn't freeze in the first part? All piping should be insulated or run under the attic insulation imho.

Its a 1970's bunglow, there is no stinking earth line...:pac:

pipers

oleras wrote: »

I am sure i am not the only one in this position today !

I have split copper pipes that need replacing in the attic tomorrow. Should I use copper, and risk it splitting again or use qualpex ?

Since qualpex will expand what advantages does copper have over it ?

I have seen qualpex burst , as recently as today.

Hellrazer

Xennon wrote: »

Re the ice forcing the qualpex fittings apart, surely they shouldn't freeze in the first part? All piping should be insulated or run under the attic insulation imho.

Mine was well insulated--the pipe itself didnt burst---the actual piece of ice in the pipe pushed them apart.

Joey the lips

Forgive me folks. I only mentioned the earthing because its best practice. TBH as a perfectionist i would never stap a peice of copper between pex and lightwise.

Use what your comfortable with. Use compression fittings not push on and dont forget the inserts if your using pex.

Davy

CJhaughey wrote: »

In fact and I have said it before the new push in fittings are even worse than the old ones, they have a plastic collar to allow the pipe to be removed and this can pull back against a rigid surface and pop the fitting off!

Their is more than one type of push on design than the techtite ones

Joey the lips

CJhaughey wrote: »

they have a plastic collar to allow the pipe to be removed and this can pull back against a rigid surface and pop the fitting off!
.

It actually tells you this with all push fittings that your not ment to have them solely on a rigid surface. Your ment to fix pipe down with screw to wall brackets to prevent this and this is an important point.

Micky Dolenz

CJhaughey wrote: »

Yep Compression fittings are the way to go with qualpex, The pipe is excellent, the push in fittings decidedly less so.
In fact and I have said it before the new push in fittings are even worse than the old ones, they have a plastic collar to allow the pipe to be removed and this can pull back against a rigid surface and pop the fitting off!
Stick with the plain brass compression and you will not regret it.

I have to agree with this, most plastic fittings are crap, even those tectite ones aren't great. Compression all the way.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not a plumber but if you go with qualpex go for a ring and nut fitting and NOT those push in fittings that they sell you with qualpex.

The ice in the pipe expanded and pushed those push on fittings off 2 ends on a pipe on me this weekend.

I replaced them with ordinary ring and nut fittings as advised by the local hardware and plumbing crowd.

Have seen this with compression fittings too though. But your right, compression are more realible.

pipers wrote: »

I have seen qualpex burst , as recently as today.

It bursts alright, but has way more fexlibitly than a metal pipe. If you ask a plumber, I bet over 90% of burst pipes are metal.

mad m

ah ffs lads,,,I got house extension done nearly two years now and got half n half of tectite fittings....You have me worried now!!!

items

Qualpex is not designed to use in exposed areas. It's really only for 1st fix, pipe's hidden behind plaster board, floors etc. If your tank is tucked away, far away from heavy traffic (walking, standing, grabbing etc) then its fine.Their is a few problems with using Qualpex for attic runs, it dips and sags, next time your tank goes empty expect a few air locks when water returns. Its all up to you at end of day.

Copper will spilt from frost plug, Qualpex will spilt from frost plugs. In some cases Qualpex will split even sooner. Do what ever is within your budget but insulate pipes well. No such thing as over insulated. Rolls of fiber glass are cheap, wrapping fiberglass around pipe then tightening it around pipe with string is how pipes were insulated back in the day, works well.

items

mad m wrote: »

ah ffs lads,,,I got house extension done nearly two years now and got half n half of tectite fittings....You have me worried now!!!

Rubber push on o ring fittings are 100% safe to use. They are 100% reliable, no need to be worried. Those fittings have been tested for pressure, heat and frost. They all meet plumbing standards, they come with a guarantee. The only problem is the person using the fittings, some people don't push them in enough and have pipe under strain, damage the o ring, re use the fitting, don't cut pipe square, scratch pipe etc etc.

I'm a plumber, plumbed my own storage water in attic with compression fittings, the frost poped one of the compression fittings completely off pipe, the frost even pushed a factory crimped hose off its body. It can happen to best of fittings.

Solder fittings are safest bet.

Micky Dolenz

items wrote: »

Qualpex is not designed to use in exposed areas. It's really only for 1st fix, pipe's hidden behind plaster board, floors etc. If your tank is tucked away, far away from heavy traffic (walking, standing, grabbing etc) then its fine.Their is a few problems with using Qualpex for attic runs, it dips and sags, next time your tank goes empty expect a few air locks when water returns. Its all up to you at end of day.

.

Qualplex if clipped propery won't sag too much, they won't sag at all if they are only carrying cold water, which most qualplex pipes in attics will be doing, for example, cold feed to bathrooms, mains to tank, cold feed to cylinder. If you do have a fed and expansion tank (small heating tank) it would be advisble to pipe fed and expansion in copper, because it may get very hot, same applies to expansion from cylinder. if the pipe temperture is high, copper has a run away advantage over qualplex.

Copper plumbing systems air lock as do qual one's. Copper has a 30 to 50 year life span depending on water in your area, qualplex will never rot or rust. I agree with items that copper should be where ever you can see pipe EG hot press, legs on rads.

Davy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I agree with items that copper should be where ever you can see pipe EG hot press, legs on rads.

The white stuff looks good imo. No need to be painting it. But you have to get lengths, if you use a coil it bends like mad once the heat comes on it

items

Just from my own experience, majority of time when fixing air locks its all down to pex in the attic, its just so handy to roll it out and forget the supporting and fixing.

Looks like mains pipe split, its an old attic tank, prob no support for ballcock, might bring on water hammer if pex is used.

All comes down to money, copper costs more, if you don't have a benders more fittings will have to be bought etc. Either will work well, all down to person fitting.

Attics and leaking pipes are not a good combination so anyone attempting a bit of attic plumbing, 1, don't step through ceiling 2, check, double check and check all replaced fittings once water comes back on.

3 measure attic tank and find a plastic lid to suit, tired of seeing tanks with no lids, you've no idea what sort of things can die in attic tank once they make it into it.

Micky Dolenz

So here's the question, if we were to pipe our own homes tomorrow, what material pipe would you use?

I would use qualplex with brass fittings, all fittings would be above ground,I.E each pipe would return to over ground manifold in hotpress, or utility room. I would probaly use 19mm overflow pipe or 22mm copper to sleve rad legs.

I would use copper in hot press. In attic cold carrying water pipes would be qual, hot ones, copper

CJhaughey

Davy wrote: »

Their is more than one type of push on design than the techtite ones

Correct but the new Qualpex have the same stupid ring release arrangement, as the tectite ones.
The older ones didn't have that system and were the better for it, but after a couple of bad experiences with push on fittings pushing themselves off I would rather have the confidence of compression fittings anyday.
They are not as bulky to fit either.

CJhaughey

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So here's the question, if we were to pipe our own homes tomorrow, what material pipe would you use?

I would use qualplex with brass fittings, all fittings would be above ground,I.E each pipe would return to over ground manifold in hotpress, or utility room. I would probaly use 19mm overflow pipe or 22mm copper to sleve rad legs.

I would use copper in hot press. In attic cold carrying water pipes would be qual, hot ones, copper

I would do the same as you but I don't have a hot press, or rads.
All solar runs copper and insulated with armaflex high temp insulation.
3/4 feed and 1/2 branches.

items

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So here's the question, if we were to pipe our own homes tomorrow, what material pipe would you use?

I would use qualplex with brass fittings, all fittings would be above ground,I.E each pipe would return to over ground manifold in hotpress, or utility room. I would probaly use 19mm overflow pipe or 22mm copper to sleve rad legs.

I would use copper in hot press. In attic cold carrying water pipes would be qual, hot ones, copper

Pex and compression fittings for all first fix, copper for boiler, hotpress and attic, any pipes seen for rads, toilets, basins, sink etc would be in chrome, looks the job.

volvo 240

In our new property to renovate I will use copper piping and end feed fittings. In our property in France I used all copper piping etc. Different sizes here! 8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,28mm etc with a wall thickness of 2mm. pipes sold as 12/14. 14/16 etc. Heard of a few plastic pipes getting chewed from rats etc here in France and flooded out!! Advice now is to run the pipes through conduit to help protect against vermin or use copper!! What size copper pipes are used in Ireland are they imperial or metric or can you find both sizes in merchants? Which is in most use? James:)

Micky Dolenz

volvo 240 wrote: »

What size copper pipes are used in Ireland are they imperial or metric or can you find both sizes in merchants? Which is in most use? James:)

Imperial sizes 1/2") 3/4" and 1", in microbore systems 3/8". It's a joke we are not metric. you can find both size pipes and fittings in most good plumbing suppliers.

items

volvo 240 wrote: »

In our new property to renovate I will use copper piping and end feed fittings. In our property in France I used all copper piping etc. Different sizes here! 8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,28mm etc with a wall thickness of 2mm. pipes sold as 12/14. 14/16 etc. Heard of a few plastic pipes getting chewed from rats etc here in France and flooded out!! Advice now is to run the pipes through conduit to help protect against vermin or use copper!! What size copper pipes are used in Ireland are they imperial or metric or can you find both sizes in merchants? Which is in most use? James:)

Ireland has its own size, only place in world to have its own size pipe, 14mm (know as 1/2") 22mm (known as 3/4") and so on. The story goes, back in the day when copper pipe was made here, the machine was only set up to produce pipe @ those dia, a lot of houses were piped from Irish made copper so it's lasted right up to this day. All fittings etc are special made for Ireland so you'll have no problem finding fittings, if you need to convert to metric plenty of plumbing suppliers have metric fittings. When buying pipe and fittings, its 8mm 10mm 12mm 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1 1/4" 1 1/2" etc, then if your need metric for taps etc just ask for metric.

No solder end feeds here, its more for industrial use so only industrial suppliers have them. Domestic solder fittings are capillary solder fittings, they have a ring of solder inside fitting, just clean pipe, wipe flux around pipe, insert pipe into clean fitting, heat up, solder comes out and seals fitting by capillary action (liquid travels in tight space etc). No need to feed in solder, some do add extra but if done right, no extra solder is needed.

eoghan.geraghty

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So here's the question, if we were to pipe our own homes tomorrow, what material pipe would you use?

I'm plumbing my own house refurb on an ongoing basis, qualpex everywhere except hot press and from boiler to hot press, all copper.
Oh the last piece to each rad is copper too.
Every inch of qualpex on the heating and hot water is covered in the grey foam insulation, I'm anal about insulation.
The solar loop is flexible stainless steel in a heavier black insulation.

If I was to start again however I think I'd go with something like an alu-pex or unipipe.

volvo 240

Hi thanks for the advice!:) I will see what is most in stock nearest me and take it from there!! :DJames.

items

eoghan.geraghty wrote: »

I'm plumbing my own house refurb on an ongoing basis, qualpex everywhere except hot press and from boiler to hot press, all copper.
Oh the last piece to each rad is copper too.
Every inch of qualpex on the heating and hot water is covered in the grey foam insulation, I'm anal about insulation.
The solar loop is flexible stainless steel in a heavier black insulation.

If I was to start again however I think I'd go with something like an alu-pex or unipipe.

All pex has to have an oxygen barrier for heating, they all have an alu type barrier. Was a time when you could buy a roll of pex with out barrier for plumbing but that was a while ago, people never knew the difference so mistakes were made.

Unipipe is good gear, right up to 70 mm pipe, fittings are double o ring crimped fittings, pipe is cheap prob cheaper than pex but fittings are expensive, its the quickest along with most sound fitting I've ever seen so cost is justifiable. Upinor is the actual manufacturer, Unipipe order from Upinor and have company name branded on pipe, fittings boxes etc, they sell at lot of pipe and fittings to combine with geothermal heat pump systems / underfloor heating. Crimp gun for crimp fittings costs over a grand, has to be serviced once a year, hydrological oil replaced, they have springs, benders and hand crimpers for Upinor as well. Unipipe have a good place in Bray worth a trip.

lensman

I plumbed a new 2 room extention,..water/ensuite & heating with plex pipe & surespeed fittings,..got it all from pulsar direct in Cork.
pipe
fittings