My cats kill birds but won't eat them?

KateC92

I have seven cats, they are all happy and healthy. I live on a farm so they live outside all the time. The main idea is that they keep the rats and mice away, and they do, but they are also pets. I feed them in a house outside in the farmyard, if you know what I mean, where they can get in and out easily through a hole in the door, but the dogs can't fit. Tonight when I was feeding them I found 7 dead birds in the place where I leave the cats food. The birds' necks were broken but other than that they were untouched. I know that the cats obviously killed them but why won't they eat them? I feed the cats enough to keep them healthy, but they are by no means spoiled or overfed, if anything they should be wanting, so why aren't they eating the birds?
N.B. There has been a lot of birds around my house lately.

The Sweeper

The freezing temperatures means the birds are starving and weak. They are around your house looking for food. They are also easy meals for your cats as a result.

The cats aren't eating them because they're not hungry, but they'll keep killing them because their hunting drive is too strong to overlook the opportunity of a bunch of starving birds too weak to fly away and too exhausted to notice they're being stalked.

Run_to_da_hills

In cold weather particularly when its icy birds will approach homes, farms and other places in search of food.

They thus become easy prey for cats as they become weak from starvation.

You should put bells on your cats to stop them doing this and leave food for them out of reach from cats.

T-Square

This is typical cat behavior.

One of the cats has decided to show its appreciation,
and return the favor so to speak.

Seven birds or mice from one cat is quite common.

Don't know why it is seven, just seems to reoccur.

You must treat them quite well.

Zainal

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You should put bells on your cats to stop them doing this

Why? I understand not leaving food where the birds will be an easy target, but why the bells?

Lauragoesmad

So the birds can hear the cats when they move.

T-Square

Outdoor cats should not have anything around their neck,
it presents a safety hazard

Zainal

Lauragoesmad wrote: »

So the birds can hear the cats when they move.

Alright, I guess I walked into that.

I mean, why not let the cat hunt?

Run_to_da_hills

T-Square wrote: »

Outdoor cats should not have anything around their neck,
it presents a safety hazard

"Outdoor" cats without bells present a safety hazard to starving birds. :mad:

The Sweeper

Zainal wrote: »

Alright, I guess I walked into that.

I mean, why not let the cat hunt?

Just out of basic respect for the ecosystem you're living in really.

'Why not let the cat hunt' is where the sentiment of 'Why not let the Japanese keep research whaling' starts.

The domestic cat, while it has retained many characteristics of wild cats, is not wild. Just because it *can* hunt, that doesn't mean it *should* hunt, willy nilly. You own the cat, it's your responsibility to feed it.

However, well fed cats will often hunt for sport. This is a major issue because it means you're doubly tipping the balance - not only are you allowing an introduced species hunt for no good reason other than its own entertainment, but you're also weighting its odds by feeding it and worming it, so it doesn't have the handicaps of hunger or parasitic infection or anything else that wild animals have to cope with.

Hunting cats can do a huge amount of damage to a local ecosystem, especially to birdlife (and here in Australia, to anything small and furry).

Whatever you may think yourself about numbers, living things are a finite resource and really should be treated with more respect than 'why not let them hunt'.

KateC92

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You should put bells on your cats to stop them doing this and leave food for them out of reach from cats.

T-Square wrote: »

Outdoor cats should not have anything around their neck,
it presents a safety hazard

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Outdoor" cats without bells present a safety hazard to starving birds. :mad:

Thanks for your replies everyone, I guess it is just the abundance of weak birds around lately.

I would never put bells on my cats, it would be dangerous for them, I love my cats and I don't want them to hang themselves, and I'm sure it would distress them to not be able to stalk prey silently as is their natural instinct.

Cats are supposed to pose a safety hazard to starving birds, that's just the way of nature.
But since I am feeding the cats I guess that gives them an unfair advantage over the birds so to be fair I will buy a few bird feeders soon and hang them up, then they can fight fair.:rolleyes:

T-Square

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Outdoor" cats without bells present a safety hazard to starving birds. :mad:

Birds are dinner for cats.

doctor evil

You can get bells with an elastic insert or a safety release system. You should take responsibility for the impact.

When hanging up bird feeders do so in a clearing where is nowhere nearby for a cat to hide and stage an ambush. Invest in a squirrel proof pole so the feeder won't get chewed.

In an ecological sense there are too many cats per square kilometre.

Run_to_da_hills

T-Square wrote: »

Birds are dinner for cats.

Not all cats, read the OP.

JKM

KateC92 wrote: »

I would never put bells on my cats, it would be dangerous for them, I love my cats and I don't want them to hang themselves, and I'm sure it would distress them to not be able to stalk prey silently as is their natural instinct.

If you love your cats you would put collars with bells on them. For several reasons, one being they could be identified as yours if needs be, another being the amount of diseases that can be transferred to your cat from wild animals (and vice versa) including the taxoplasma parasite (which can be transferred to you). Most collars these days have safety catches on them so if there's no chance of your cat 'hanging' themselves. I have four cats and all four have collars and all with bells with the exception of one who is driven demented by the bell but doesn't hunt anyway. One of them is particularly active and has lost four collars in the last few months but was never harmed by them.

And putting out feeders is only going to attract more weak starving birds to your yard. Our cats have brought in three birds in the last few days, my boyfriend managed to save one of them, the other two were not so lucky. So, we decided to close our cat flap and only leave them out supervised until the cold snap lifts. The poor birds haven't a chance with current conditions.

There's no reason why birds and cats can't live side by side. Cats with bells still experience the thrill of the hunt and the birds maybe get a fright but still live. Everyone's happy.

The Sweeper

T-Square wrote: »

Birds are dinner for cats.

The same way, in the natural order of things, cats are dinner for dogs? Cats are roadkill, and worth extra points if you swerve to hit them? cats are pests that shit all over my garden, so I should be able to put poisoned food out fo them? Cats are nuisance animals so I should be able to use them for target practice?

Sheep are herd animals and sheep-worrying dogs are only doing what comes naturally? Toddlers are small and not the top of the pack, so dogs that bite the faces off young children shouldn't be put to sleep for it?

Cats aren't worth the vets bills after an accident, because they're only cats?

Value statements like the one you made are dangerous territory.

Yes, cats have a natural urge to hunt and will kill birds, insects, rodents and other small mammals given the chance. They will also exercise their urge to hunt on pieces of string, small cloth mice, ping pong balls - the same way dogs will exercise their urge to chase on a frisbee.

You have a domestic cat. It's up to you to try and limit how it exercises
'wild' behaviour, the same way people no longer allow their dogs to roam in packs.

Otherwise, at some point you'll find yourself on the unfortunate, karmic end of your own logic - if it's tough shit for the bird because it's natural for the cat to hunt, then it's tough shit for your cat - and you - when your neighbour's two dogs, for instance, catch it in their yard and tear it to pieces.

Zainal

I guess I can see your point about the impact of a house cat on wildlife although my own experience with my cat is that she's lazy as sin and rarely hunts.

However I think comparing house cats hunting to whaling or choosing to run down animals is an odd comparison.

Slightly OT but what's your opinion of cats hunting mice and rats, things most would consider vermin? And do we harm birds by providing food, possibly encouraging them to be dependent on us?

The Sweeper

I'm not trying to force morality upon the cat.

Cats hunt. They have a stalk, chase and pounce instinct that's strong in even four week old kittens. They do not differentiate between prey animals based on value or tameness, attractiveness or position on the endangered species list.

Similarly, dogs hunt. Some dogs will react very badly indeed at the sight of a herd of animals, or a small, running animal (or small, running child). However, for many reasons, people have chosen to step in, in the case of dogs, and we now restrict their roaming, supervise their interaction with potential prey and exercise their wild instinct through supervised exercise and play (two walks a day and a game of fetch, for instance).

Why don't we do the same for our cats?

A lot of people hate cats, because of how they are permitted to broadly exericse their hunting, roaming and territory marking instincts. The cats come out worse from this negative PR every time - I have had to deal with "How much? But it's just a cat!" at the vet, leading to the animal being abandoned. I have also seen the aftermath of poisonings, shootings, and other anti-cat cruelty of various kinds (an attempted garotting with a wire trap designed for rabbits in one case).

Cats don't need to change. People need to change, and limit what they allow their cat to do. Free roaming cats are pests. The public hates pests. That's why we don't even count the number of cats PTS every year in the pounds - other than a number 'more than dogs'.

There are people on this forum who won't put a collar on their cat, because of the dangers of the collar getting caught when the cat climbs. Others won't allow their cat out without a collar, because they believe it indicates ownership. On the shooting forum, one of the distinctions for shooters who target 'feral' cats is whether or not it's wearing a collar. Flip again, and I can tell you that all a collar means is someone owned the cat for long enough to put a collar on it - which takes two minutes. The pounds and shelters brim over every year with cats, wearing collars, who nobody wants, or claims, or admits to ever having owned.

People really need to take responsibility for their cats. 'Birds are food for cats' is a cop out of the highest order. 'New born lambs are food for siberian huskies' has just as much validity in terms of the truth of the statement regarding the nature of the animal, but do you think it would excuse a husky caught worrying sheep? No, it wouldn't, but a mindshift had to happen for that to be the case.

Cats have a role as a working animal, the same as dogs do. In the case of cats, they keep vermin down - but there is a specific environment for that, such as in areas where there is a lot of food stored in a way that allows vermin access to that food, and facilitates a population explosion of vermin. Barns and stables for instance, often use a cat to keep the vermin down. In my view, that's fine - as long as the cat is neutered, wormed regularly, has access to clean water and to food that it hasn't had to hunt itself, will be given properly veterinary care if injured - you know, all of the things we offer our working dogs. The cat should also be shut into the stable or barn at night, with the other animals, and allowed out in the morning - this will limit its roaming, going some way towards protecting it from death on the road and fights with other roaming cats, thereby limiting the risk of it contracting a fatal disease through fighting with other cats.

I'm not comparing cats hunting to whaling or running down animals on the road. I'm comparing the attitude, the one that says that cats hunting is harmless, natural and the animals they're killing are unworthy of notice, to the same attitudes that form the foundation of sport killing.

Allowing your cat unrestricted outdoor access, to kill wildlife, shit on the neighbour's garden, stir up the neighbour's dog at 2am so it starts barking furiously and wakes the whole street, and conduct boisterous, yowling fights on the garage roof with other cats, does absolutely no favours for your cat or domestic-cat-kind as a whole.

Denerick

Whats all this nonsense about now? Of course cats should hunt. You don't complain when they kill off vermin like rats (I never seem to hear the conservationists get into a self righteous huff about that) But whinge when they take out a few birds? Is it because birds look nice and rats don't? You can't seriously expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing vermin (Rats) and killing birds. Therefore, if you keep a cat because it keeps vermin away (Like we do, but we also like the little bugger) and you give it bells, or whatever the hell you people are talking about doing, its going to prevent it killing rats. What a load of nonsense this entire thread has been.

The Sweeper

Denerick wrote: »

Whats all this nonsense about now? Of course cats should hunt. You don't complain when they kill off vermin like rats (I never seem to hear the conservationists get into a self righteous huff about that) But whinge when they take out a few birds? Is it because birds look nice and rats don't? You can't seriously expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing vermin (Rats) and killing birds. Therefore, if you keep a cat because it keeps vermin away (Like we do, but we also like the little bugger) and you give it bells, or whatever the hell you people are talking about doing, its going to prevent it killing rats. What a load of nonsense this entire thread has been.

If you don't understand something, it helps if you actually read the thread.

Denerick

The Sweeper wrote: »

If you don't understand something, it helps if you actually read the thread.

Wow! You totally



Me.

The Sweeper

Additionally, if you have nothing substantial to contribute because you haven't read the thread, and have missed the point of what you have read, you could always just refrain from posting?

Still though, if trumpeting in declaring everything 'Nonsense!' and then posting yesterday's lolcat pic makes you feel better, you carry on.

Denerick

The Sweeper wrote: »

Additionally, if you have nothing substantial to contribute because you haven't read the thread, and have missed the point of what you have read, you could always just refrain from posting?

Still though, if trumpeting in declaring everything 'Nonsense!' and then posting yesterday's lolcat pic makes you feel better, you carry on.

Well no, I did read the thread. I just happened to disagree with you. Why are you so agitated? Here, let me give you a back rub.

The Sweeper

I'm not agitated at all. I have simply presented a point of view that you don't agree with - you're the one hollering 'nonsense!' (a claim you don't do much work to support, by the way) and posting lolcat pictures.

Can you back up why you think it's nonsense that a cat's instinct to hunt should be curtailed by its owner?

Denerick

The Sweeper wrote: »

I'm not agitated at all. I have simply presented a point of view that you don't agree with - you're the one hollering 'nonsense!' (a claim you don't do much work to support, by the way) and posting lolcat pictures.

Can you back up why you think it's nonsense that a cat's instinct to hunt should be curtailed by its owner?

You compare the domesticisation of cats and dogs like they are two equal presentations. They are not. Dogs are for the most part rubbish hunters and equally for the most part this instinct has been drilled out of them to the extent that all they ever do is bundle after a smaller animal aimlessly (Allowing the said animal to escape easily)

Cats on the other hand have a much finer honed hunting instinct which has never been bred out of them, no matter how much they've domesticated (Take the example of cats who have been declawed - when they are young they still find and carry small implements and present them to their owner. This is their instinct in action) They hunt craftily, using stealth and wit. A dog just runs.

What's more, cats form a useful function in preventing the spread of vermin. They cannot be expected to know the difference between birds and rats. If they kill birds, then thats just a fact of nature. The fact that they are domesticated makes no difference at all.

If you are living in an urban area, then have your cat housebound by all means. But for those of us who own cats in rural areas, its natural for them to be expected to prevent the spread of vermin. That is their primary function in our household. End of story.

Run_to_da_hills

Denerick wrote: »

Whats all this nonsense about now? Of course cats should hunt. You don't complain when they kill off vermin like rats (I never seem to hear the conservationists get into a self righteous huff about that) But whinge when they take out a few birds? Is it because birds look nice and rats don't? You can't seriously expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing vermin (Rats) and killing birds. Therefore, if you keep a cat because it keeps vermin away (Like we do, but we also like the little bugger) and you give it bells, or whatever the hell you people are talking about doing, its going to prevent it killing rats. What a load of nonsense this entire thread has been.

Letting your domestic cat out in this weather unsupervised when there is starving birds out there some whom haven't even got the energy to take off is disgusting. Its like shooting someone in the back.

The cold spell is expected to last until the end of the week, it isn't much to ask people to keep an eye on their cats for a few more days.

The Sweeper

Denerick wrote: »

If you are living in an urban area, then have your cat housebound by all means. But for those of us who own cats in rural areas, its natural for them to be expected to prevent the spread of vermin. That is their primary function in our household. End of story.

If you read my post number 18 on this thread, I pretty much agree with this paragraph, and I make reference to the 'working cat'. I just request some restriction - for the benefit of the cat and the area, and not to the detriment of the cat's effectiveness in vermin control.

I agree, cats cannot be expected to know the difference between a mouse and a bird, or a sparrow and someone's escaped budgy, or indeed a fluttering blade of grass and something edible - they'll hunt them all.

The question is whether you as the cat's owner should allow it to hunt indiscriminately, turning a blind eye, on the basis that it is natural cat behaviour.

maxxie

they didnt lick it off a stone thats all il say :P

Denerick

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Letting your domestic cat out in this weather unsupervised when there is starving birds out there some whom haven't even got the energy to take off is disgusting. Its like shooting someone in the back.

The cold spell is expected to last until the end of the week, it isn't much to ask people to keep an eye on their cats for a few more days.

Oh please. The only thing seperating a bird and a rat in your eyes is that one is pretty and one is not.

Denerick

The Sweeper wrote: »

The question is whether you as the cat's owner should allow it to hunt indiscriminately, turning a blind eye, on the basis that it is natural cat behaviour.

Yes, why shouldn't I? I'd prevent it taking on a fox if I saw it happening, solely because it wouldn't have a chance, though I'd marvel at its audacity. I don't understand why you are surprised that a natural predator likes to hunt.

P.S- I think I see a clear rural/urban divide here. I'm used to seeing animals killing each other. I eat meat. I am a lazy predator myself. I just expect someone else to do the killing. There is a food chain in the universe, some animals are destined to die when faced by stronger, more aggressive animals. It is the cosmic ordering of the universe. As much as all these petty sentimentalism's warms my heart, its not going to make the species any stronger.

doctor evil

Denerick wrote: »

Whats all this nonsense about now? Of course cats should hunt. You don't complain when they kill off vermin like rats (I never seem to hear the conservationists get into a self righteous huff about that) But whinge when they take out a few birds? Is it because birds look nice and rats don't? You can't seriously expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing vermin (Rats) and killing birds. Therefore, if you keep a cat because it keeps vermin away (Like we do, but we also like the little bugger) and you give it bells, or whatever the hell you people are talking about doing, its going to prevent it killing rats. What a load of nonsense this entire thread has been.

Mice and rats breed a lot quicker than birds.

The Sweeper

I'm not surprised they hunt. I'm surprised that people lament this inadvertent side affect of allowing your cat to roam, and then can't get their heads around the fact that if you don't want them killing wildlife, just don't let them roam.

The wildlife thing is also a bigger issue for me, because I'm in Australia, where the roaming cat has wiped out entire populations of small marsupials and other mammals, in some cases actually rendering them extinct in former habitats (not totally extinct).

I'm an advocate of keeping your cats indoors or giving them restricted outdoor access, because it's better for the cat. I also believe there is a place for the rural, working cat in pest control, but AGAIN I don't believe the animals should just be left in the outhouses to feed themselves and breed like rabbits, with farmers drowning the kittens they don't want, for instance.

Farmers commonly retire their working dogs to being inside pets when they get too old to work - do you think that happens to many barn cats?

All I'm asking is that people take responsibility for their cats. If you don't want them killing birds - and as already mentioned, the current weather in Ireland puts this in 'shooting fish in a barrell' territory, then keep them indoors.

doctor evil

JKM wrote: »

birds maybe get a fright but still live. Everyone's happy.

Just as a further note to that, when a birds takes off in fright they use an awful lot of energy.

So when walking please don't let them chase off the wildlife, particularly waterfowl.

Denerick

The Sweeper wrote: »

I'm not surprised they hunt. I'm surprised that people lament this inadvertent side affect of allowing your cat to roam, and then can't get their heads around the fact that if you don't want them killing wildlife, just don't let them roam.

The wildlife thing is also a bigger issue for me, because I'm in Australia, where the roaming cat has wiped out entire populations of small marsupials and other mammals, in some cases actually rendering them extinct in former habitats (not totally extinct).

I'm an advocate of keeping your cats indoors or giving them restricted outdoor access, because it's better for the cat. I also believe there is a place for the rural, working cat in pest control, but AGAIN I don't believe the animals should just be left in the outhouses to feed themselves and breed like rabbits, with farmers drowning the kittens they don't want, for instance.

Farmers commonly retire their working dogs to being inside pets when they get too old to work - do you think that happens to many barn cats?

All I'm asking is that people take responsibility for their cats. If you don't want them killing birds - and as already mentioned, the current weather in Ireland puts this in 'shooting fish in a barrell' territory, then keep them indoors.

Ok, in your case there may be justification. I can't speak on behalf of the Australian eco-system. But in Ireland, cats are targeting birds species which are in no danger whatsoever of extinction. If it ever gets to the stage that cats become so powerful that they begin to wipe out common Irish birds, I'll take a stand. I love nature and wildlife as much as the next man. But I do think there is some unnecessary alarmism in this thread.

P.S- Our cat is quite old so when he manages to catch anything, we're all somewhat happy for him. The other day he caught a bird and he was like a young kitten again.

Shewhomustbe...

Denerick wrote: »

Ok, in your case there may be justification. I can't speak on behalf of the Australian eco-system. But in Ireland, cats are targeting birds species which are in no danger whatsoever of extinction. If it ever gets to the stage that cats become so powerful that they begin to wipe out common Irish birds, I'll take a stand. I love nature and wildlife as much as the next man. But I do think there is some unnecessary alarmism in this thread.

I'm sure when cats were brought over to Austalia, New Zealand and the surrounding islands they didn't think that they'd wipe out entire species of birds and animals but they did, so why wait until it's too late before curbing the behaviour of domesticated animals.

Only one of our cats is allowed out and has brought in many mice, both alive and dead, and I will praise her for doing this but if she brings in a bird she'll be scolded so as not to encourage her to hunt them. I am not picking birds over mice because I think they're cuter, far from it, I much prefer Milly keep the mice alive so I can put them back outside but as said, mice/rats breed far quicker and in higher numbers than birds.

GisforGrenade

Since you don't seem to be too pushed about the birds just don't leave out any food for them because more are probably dying from your cats than the cold, also scolding the cats when they bring in a bird but praising them when they kill mice is a good way to go, if you cats are busy keeping your house and nearby area clear of mice they won't be killing birds. Also there is nothing natural about a cat that was initially imported into this country being well fed by its owner and then going around and killing birds because it is bored, but either way a few bored cats are not the biggest threat to a lot of birds the biggest threat is global warming, changing agricultural practices and the majority of people now living in cities, certain birds will thrive but other species will become rarer and rarer.

Shewhomustbe...

GisforGrenade wrote: »

Since you don't seem to be too pushed about the birds just don't leave out any food for them because more are probably dying from your cats than the cold, also scolding the cats when they bring in a bird but praising them when they kill mice is a good way to go, if you cats are busy keeping your house and nearby area clear of mice they won't be killing birds. Also there is nothing natural about a cat that was initially imported into this country being well fed by its owner and then going around and killing birds because it is bored, but either way a few bored cats are not the biggest threat to a lot of birds the biggest threat is global warming, changing agricultural practices and the majority of people now living in cities, certain birds will thrive but other species will become rarer and rarer.

I'm assuming this post is directed at me.
I am pushed about the birds, I've been feeding the birds longer than I've had cats. As I said, only one cat is allowed out, and I use allowed loosely as if it was possible she'd been indoors permanently. It is more of a rarity that Milly will kill a bird and when she does it is usually a wren http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wren and there is nothing I can do to protect them. All my bird feeders are in an open area and very high off the ground.
The other reasons you cite for the decline in bird numbers are the exact reasons I will not stop taking care of the ones who live in the trees, hedgerow and surrounding fields around my house.

Run_to_da_hills

Denerick wrote: »

P.S- Our cat is quite old so when he manages to catch anything, we're all somewhat happy for him. The other day he caught a bird and he was like a young kitten again.

PS some day your neighbours alastion may take to your elderly cat and then feel like he is a pup again. :rolleyes:

Graces7

:(That is an emotive opening sentence.

I once had a cat who tried to get his collar off; got his leg caught and had a wound under his leg then. Never used a collar since.

Nor ever will; and we love our cats dearly.

Just now, because it is so intensely cold, our cats choose to stay in during the day. Birdwatching from the window.

And we have been feeding the birds up here for many weeks; they are fat and active.

They are feeding well off even the windowledges.

Always individual choice as in all things.

JKM wrote: »

If you love your cats you would put collars with bells on them. For several reasons, one being they could be identified as yours if needs be, another being the amount of diseases that can be transferred to your cat from wild animals (and vice versa) including the taxoplasma parasite (which can be transferred to you). Most collars these days have safety catches on them so if there's no chance of your cat 'hanging' themselves. I have four cats and all four have collars and all with bells with the exception of one who is driven demented by the bell but doesn't hunt anyway. One of them is particularly active and has lost four collars in the last few months but was never harmed by them.

And putting out feeders is only going to attract more weak starving birds to your yard. Our cats have brought in three birds in the last few days, my boyfriend managed to save one of them, the other two were not so lucky. So, we decided to close our cat flap and only leave them out supervised until the cold snap lifts. The poor birds haven't a chance with current conditions.

There's no reason why birds and cats can't live side by side. Cats with bells still experience the thrill of the hunt and the birds maybe get a fright but still live. Everyone's happy.

Graces7

That is a ridiculous analogy. Please!

Our two cats - in a very rural area - come and go as they please.

And they go less in this weather.

The birds here are not starving either; they were well fed before this started. And are still.

If a bird is so weakened, the likelihood is that it will not live anyway. That too is nature, tough as that is.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Letting your domestic cat out in this weather unsupervised when there is starving birds out there some whom haven't even got the energy to take off is disgusting. Its like shooting someone in the back.

The cold spell is expected to last until the end of the week, it isn't much to ask people to keep an eye on their cats for a few more days.

seamus

The Sweeper wrote: »

The wildlife thing is also a bigger issue for me, because I'm in Australia, where the roaming cat has wiped out entire populations of small marsupials and other mammals, in some cases actually rendering them extinct in former habitats (not totally extinct).

This is probably key in the whole, "stop your cats hunting" issue. Outside of rural areas, humans exist in population densities far beyond what's "normal" in an ecosystem. We bring along with us dogs, cats and rodents, who also then exist in very high densities.

Birds, for example, don't get carried along for the ride in the same way. While they may experience some degree of support from waste food and other stuff discarded by humans, urbanisation is by and large devastating to bird populations. So allowing cats to roam and kill birds in urban areas is not allowing the natural order of things to take place, in fact it's exactly the opposite - you're tipping the balance in favour of the cat.

Even outside of urban areas (such as where the OP lives), humans interfere with the standard ecosystem by providing food and shelter for cats. Thus any one particular area can support a far higher cat population than it would without human interference, again tipping the balance in favour of the cat and devastating the local bird populations.

So you have two ethical options:

1. Feed your cat and stick a bell on it.
2. Stop feeding and sheltering your cat and let nature take its course.

Tiny Explosions

The reason the OP keeps cats is to kill vermin, so if she/he put a collar with a bell on it, then the cats wouldn't be much use to have around ( unless as pets)

Now I own a cat and she catches 4 or 5 times the amount of vermin than she does birds ( i scold her if she brings a dead bird home) but I would never make her wear a bell on her collar. The way I see it, if she catches a bird, sorry but tough for the bird! (sorry if that sounds harsh).

But catching 7 birds in one night does sound like an awful lot, maybe the birds where already dead and they just brought them home maybe?

Denerick

Shewhomustbe... wrote: »

I'm sure when cats were brought over to Austalia, New Zealand and the surrounding islands they didn't think that they'd wipe out entire species of birds and animals but they did, so why wait until it's too late before curbing the behaviour of domesticated animals.

Only one of our cats is allowed out and has brought in many mice, both alive and dead, and I will praise her for doing this but if she brings in a bird she'll be scolded so as not to encourage her to hunt them. I am not picking birds over mice because I think they're cuter, far from it, I much prefer Milly keep the mice alive so I can put them back outside but as said, mice/rats breed far quicker and in higher numbers than birds.

Do you not see how ludicrous that is? How can you expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing a rat and a bird? Its absurd!

seamus

Denerick wrote: »

Do you not see how ludicrous that is? How can you expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing a rat and a bird? Its absurd!

The cat doesn't know the moral difference, but it is aware that there is a difference between a rat and a bird just as a dog knows that there's a difference between his food and my food and therefore he knows which he is allowed to eat and which he isn't.

Run_to_da_hills

seamus wrote: »

The cat doesn't know the moral difference, but it is aware that there is a difference between a rat and a bird just as a dog knows that there's a difference between his food and my food and therefore he knows which he is allowed to eat and which he isn't.

My mates cat will bring any amount of mice and rats into the lawn but you won't see it bring any birds in because he knows that he will get a belt. Same goes for clawing the couch or jumping up on the kitchen table.

star-pants

Denerick infracted - less sarcasm & lolcats please
The Sweeper - you know where the report post button is.

Everyone else - I'm moving this to Animal Welfare as it's become more of welfare discussion. (just so you know incase your post doesn't appear immediatedly as AW is premodded)

Shewhomustbe...

Denerick wrote: »

Do you not see how ludicrous that is? How can you expect a cat to know the moral difference between killing a rat and a bird? Its absurd!

I don't expect my cat to know the moral difference between anything. As I said already, I prefer it when she keeps the mice she brings in alive so I can put them back outside. I don't like animal cruelty of any kind but I cannot stop an animals natural instinct, she will hunt because that's the way she's programmed, and she will also eat the mice she catches so she doesn't hunt just for fun. I live in a rural area surrounded by fields so I think the mice she kills is minuscule compared to the number living here.
I'm not one of those people that prefers one animal over another, though rats wouldn't be topping my list, except for their intelligence and tenacity.