TV Licence - ALL TV licence discussion/queries in this thread.

Pawwed Rig

intbn wrote: »

That's a great question, can anyone answer this?

this

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There is no indication that it will NOT require a licence ...... so Yes you need a licence.

Alternatively of course you could get a display without a tuner, and provided no other device in the household has a tuner for receiving broadcast TV signals you would not need a licence.

If, using any combination of devices, you can receive broadcast TV signals (whether they exist or not apparently) then you need a licence it seems.

Bob24

And the very clear wording of this on the An Post FAQ: http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/GeneralTemplates/FAQ.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b24D68E6B-0B76-48A7-A11E-ADE6D4D02F8A%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fAnPost%2fFAQs%2fTV%2bLicence%2bFAQsOld%2ehtm&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#DigitalQuestion

From the 24 October an analogue television set will need a set-top box to receive digital signals. An analogue television, with or without a set-top box, will still require a licence.

zg3409

i suppose it's similar to having a TV aerial on your roof but no TV in the house. You have some of the items to receive a signal, which is an indication you may have the other items or are at least you have most of what is needed to get a TV signal. It would be hard to justify having a TV but saying you never use it.

It is mad though, as with that setup you cannot physically receive or watch TV. I suppose it's like having a broken down car, you cannot drive it, but it still needs to be taxed if on a road.

Bob24

zg3409 wrote: »

It is mad though, as with that setup you cannot physically receive or watch TV. I suppose it's like having a broken down car, you cannot drive it, but it still needs to be taxed if on a road.

Yes it is pretty silly, taking the money of people who have an analog TV while having 100% certainty they will not be able to view any TV broadcast cannot possibly find a moral justification. I guess the bottom line is that it is just a tax, and taxes don't have to be fair.

Same thing is valid about that upcoming broadcasting licence which would apply to computers as well as TVs. Politicians say people with a computer should pay a licence because they can potentially use it to watch the RTE Player, but in truth it is just a way to cover the small part of the population which is still escaping the tax.
If their actual purpose was to ensure that people who are watching RTE online are paying for a licence, it is very easy: just issue a login/password with each TV licence. RTE can use that to identify licence holders and block access to people who don't have one (and they can do like Netflix and allow streaming to only one computer or IP address at a given time to make sure people don't share credentials).

intbn

Bob24 wrote: »

And the very clear wording of this on the An Post FAQ: http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/GeneralTemplates/FAQ.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b24D68E6B-0B76-48A7-A11E-ADE6D4D02F8A%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fAnPost%2fFAQs%2fTV%2bLicence%2bFAQsOld%2ehtm&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#DigitalQuestion

From the 24 October an analogue television set will need a set-top box to receive digital signals. An analogue television, with or without a set-top box, will still require a licence.

That's very interesting, I didn't know what the definition was in the act(or the name of the act for that matter) thanks bob24

www.anpost.ie wrote:

'The definition of a Television set (Section 140 (1) of the Broadcasting Act 2009)
"television set" means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its used for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus."

I first thought after reading this that our old analog TVs could no longer be deemed 'Television Sets', goin by the definition of the act:

www.anpost.ie wrote:

'capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception'

So what we have here now is technically, because of a loophole in the definition of a 'television set' in the Broadcasting Act, our old TVs won't receive irish broadcast anymore(without a set-top box(which is besides my point)) and because(and only because) these TVs will still receive broadcast from the likes of sky, freeview stations etc with a satellite(which have got no connection and receive no funding from the irish broadcast service from their TV licence fees), they are still subject to require a TV licence :eek:

I'm sure that wasn't an oversight when they where deciding on whether to do the digital change over, the crafty whoors.
I'm on to find the definition of 'broadcasting services' & 'general reception' now

Bob24

You are welcome.

I agree with you. While the interpretation in An Post FAQ is very clear about this, when you look at the definition of a television set in the act itself it is not as clear as An Post is making it.

In a country with no analog broadcasting at all, it sounds reasonable to say that an analog TV is not "capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception" and therefore doest fit the definition of the Act. Would have they used the word "designed to" instead of "capable of", then it would have been easy to argue that the TV was originally designed for that, but certainly it is not capable of it.

But even though, I guess you could still say that "television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception" is a broad concept and does not specifically refer to the broadcasting technologies available in Ireland - and that old TV is potentially able to pick-up analog broadcasts in other countries.

Anyway, I think if An Post says it is that way ... there is no point to fight them :-)

I bought a 27" full HD computer screen with HDMI input and speakers for a bit over 200 euros to occasionally watch movies and TV shows from Netflix on my Apple TV.
It is as large as any old analog TV and I got almost the full the price of it back instantly by saving 180 euros on the licence compared to using an old TV.

I don't watch any TV, but the "funny" thing is that with my setup I could use the RTE Player on my iPhone to send RTE to the Apple TV and therefore use the computer screen as a TV which can display RTE. But clearly I don't need a TV licence as there is no TV tuner or cable/satellite/soarview box in my house. On the other hand someone with an analog TV soon not physically able to receive RTE will still have to pay for one.

Pawwed Rig

Bob24 wrote: »

Anyway, I think if An Post says it is that way ... there is no point to fight them :-)

Glad to see the Irish rebellious spirit is still alive and well:D

The FAQ from An Post are a interpretation of the law. It will not be definite unless determined in court. Any volunteers?

Bob24

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Glad to see the Irish rebellious spirit is still alive and well:D

Whomever controls the GPO controls the country, that is how it has always been ... unless you want to take it over you have to go with what An Post says I guess :-D (I am French btw ;-))

Seriously ... yes to your second point it is just an interpretation by An Post. But for 180 euros; does anyone really want to take the risk of going to court to make sure the judge will have a different interpretation? :-)

Pawwed Rig

The funny part is that An Post seems to be unable to use it's own information to find out the name of a person living in a property. They deliver letters to me every day yet the TV license reminder is always addressed to 'The Occupier'. I would be interested to know if 'The Occupier' can actually be summoned to court.
Apparently in the UK there is little they can do unless you volunteer your name to the guy that calls around.

Johnboy1951

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The funny part is that An Post seems to be unable to use it's own information to find out the name of a person living in a property. They deliver letters to me every day yet the TV license reminder is always addressed to 'The Occupier'. I would be interested to know if 'The Occupier' can actually be summoned to court.
Apparently in the UK there is little they can do unless you volunteer your name to the guy that calls around.

Under Data Protection rules, no one is allowed use info collected for one purpose, for another.
Maybe they do not have a database of current occupiers that is accessible to them for the licence fee collection.

PickledLime

I'm absolutely seething at the fact that i have to get a TV licence this year - i've had no signal coming in since Sky was cancelled last year (paying for dross there), and once the analogue signal gets the chop, there'll be no equipment in my house capable of receiving any broadcasts within this country (which is almost to the day that my current licence expires)

My TV is used for the odd DVD, gaming, but mostly for displaying college papers on a large screen via dual display while i work in Word, Excel, whatever on the laptop. That €160 is better off going to those crazy college fees than subsidising the dross that RTÉ pumps out.

zg3409

When you cancelled Sky are you not still getting a few UK channels on the box? You should be able to watch a few channels on a Sky box without subscription.

If you are forking out 160 per year on a licence why not pay 50 for a Saorview box. If you have analogue then you probably already have an aerial that is OK for Saorview. Thoe box should last 5 years or more. If your TV is a flat screen with a computer connection it may pick up Saorview without a box. Start a thread elsewhere with the exact make and model number and we can tell if your current TV may work ok.

watty

About 200 channels, about 40+ decent ones on a Sky Box with no sub.

Even if you only watch Das Erste, RAI1 or BBC you need a licence.

Actually if you have a TV you need a licence. RTE happens to get most (but not all) of the money, but it's basically a per premises tax for having a TV in Ireland.

It's not relevant even who owns the TV.

Andy454

I think the roll out of digital television services in this country is an absolute travesty.

People have already upgraded to digital services for many years now, since 1997 in fact.

In the period between 1997 and 2005 the company I worked for installed thousands of high spec satellite recievers - Strong 4375, Manhattan, echostar, etc.

Offering recievers that are a hodge podge of terrestrial and satellite is truely awful, driving through different estates I'm now seeing houses with a satellite dish and an aerial mounted slap bang on the front wall of the houses.

This has all comeabout by massive holes in legislation, poor negotiating and extremely bad planning.

The irish licence payer should not have to maintain a subscribtion to sky to recieve rte

Irish sky cards should, by default, decode Rte 1/2 tv3 and 3e with or without subscribtion.

It should be possible for licence payers to ring sky and request a sky card for decoding RTE - once they give their tv licence number - similar to the way bbc used to operate.

There should also be two options available on the sky box with regard to sky+, customers should be able to choose either to pay a 15euro a month subscribtion for sky+ features on their box or pay a one off fee to have them permanently enabled - similar to tivo boxes.

The fact the above issues remain, highlights both incompetence in consumer protection and at rte.

I have installed saorview boxes in houses with existing freesat boxes, in 90% of cases the saorview box will never be watched - for simplest of reasons...

In houses where two boxes are installed for recieving services, the freesat box will dominate - people won't go through the hassle of swapping between systems...

One would have thought RTE would have learned this from the era when sky digital didn't have rte, people wouldn't leave the sky box and go back to the tuner to watch rte (even if they could do so with the one sky remote), as a result rte started to loose market share and advertising revenue...

History will repeat itself, the saorview remote control will be buried down the back of the chair, the batteries will be used in the freesat box remote, people won't even bother to get up and get the saorview box remote from the mantel piece, once they have the freesat remote to hand....

watty

Sky is a foreign pay TV company. It would double the TV licence if Sky cards were "free" for RTE.

This is ONE reason BBC, C4, ITV and Five ABANDONED using Sky Cards. Sky charges too much for encryption services.

sligotrain

Andy454 wrote: »

I think the roll out of digital television services in this country is an absolute travesty.

...

This has all comeabout by massive holes in legislation, poor negotiating and extremely bad planning.

The irish licence payer should not have to maintain a subscribtion to sky to recieve rte

...

In houses where two boxes are installed for recieving services, the freesat box will dominate - people won't go through the hassle of swapping between systems...

One would have thought RTE would have learned this from the era when sky digital didn't have rte, people wouldn't leave the sky box and go back to the tuner to watch rte (even if they could do so with the one sky remote), as a result rte started to loose market share and advertising revenue...

History will repeat itself, the saorview remote control will be buried down the back of the chair, the batteries will be used in the freesat box remote, people won't even bother to get up and get the saorview box remote from the mantel piece, once they have the freesat remote to hand....

Well said. Digital TV planning and rollout has been very poorly thought out with the needs of the Irish consumer coming last and the needs of the RTE executives coming first.

It's been more about RTE attempting to maintain their perceived dominance in Irish broadcasting and attempting to pull strokes on the audience. We have had a 15 year opportunity to migrate the country to Digital TV and it has been wasted while successive governments dithered and RTE went about playing political games to ensure their own survival.

The government thought people would pay for the UK channels on DTT and wasted 10 years trying to get a pay DTT service up and running on that basis while all the time more and more UK channels became FTA on satellite.

An TV transmission service independent of RTE and the other broadcasters should have been set up 15 years ago and the same standards as used by the UK should have been adopted. Instead we now have a standard at a tangent to the UK, and DTT equipment not suitable for use in Ireland is on sale to much confusion by the general public.

RTE were given carte blanche by the government to set up the DTT transmission network. This should never have happened. RTE were themselves a bidder in the commercial licence beauty contest. In any other country that would be too much of a conflict of interest. RTE even engineered the results of the contest by asking for commercially unviable sums of money for bonds to be paid for by the winners. They all walked away. Even RTE themselves finally walked away. A mess.

The only consolation is that technology itself will resolve a lot of the current issues we are facing in time. Integrated DTT and Satellite TVs with PVR capability are expensive luxury items at the moment but in time these items will come down in price.

In the future more and more TV will be delivered online via the Internet. While Internet video is still not yet capable of matching the quality of broadcast TV, it surely will in a few years.

DLNA streaming is delivering high quality TV images on local area networks now. I myself have DLNA streaming all around my house, distributing Irish and UK channels over a mixture of Gigabit networking and Wifi. It would be nice to see the same quality of video coming in over the Internet.

So in conclusion, the rollout is a mess. We should never have rolled out Digital TV in the way we did, using our own mixture of standards and partial incompatibility with the UK system - particularly for NI viewers who want Irish TV - we should have stopped the commercial beauty contests very early on and not allowed RTE to determine the national digital TV policy. We should have embraced satellite TV in a more meaningful way and ensured that Irish TV was free to Irish viewers and allowed overseas viewers to pay a few bob, perhaps the licence fee equivalent, to watch Irish TV in Europe. No need for a Ka band white elephant service with 3/5 of the Saorview service on it then and a chance to earn some overseas revenue as well.

Andy454

watty wrote: »

Sky is a foreign pay TV company. It would double the TV licence if Sky cards were "free" for RTE.

This is ONE reason BBC, C4, ITV and Five ABANDONED using Sky Cards. Sky charges too much for encryption services.

RTE is using sky's encryption services at present!

As part of negotiating the contract with sky for its channels to be carried, RTE should have stipulted that if an irish subscriber cancels - their viewing card will remain active to decode rte 1,2, tv3 and tg4 at the very least.

It is absolutely ridiculous that if someone cancels sky, they cut off rte!

When sky digital was launched first, subscribers in the uk had to subscribe to sky for 12 months and keep the box connected to an active telephone line to get their decoder and install at a subsidised price - Once the 12 months were up, the subscriber was free to cancel and although they lost the sky channels, they were still able to view bbc, itv, ch4 services.

watty

No, RTE is NOT using Sky's Encryption. RTE on Sky is carried and paid for by Sky as a commercial necessity for Sky's sales of pay TV!

they were still able to view bbc, itv, ch4 services.

Because BBC, ITV, C4 and Five were paying for their own carriage and in addition paying Sky collectively Millions for Encryption and Card call centre services! First BBC, then ITV, C4 and Five all left the very expensive Sky scheme after Astra 2D became available. S4C was used as test of Encryption free UK TV.

All the Saorview channels are available FTA on satellite except TV3 and 3e. Write to BCI and TV3 and complain. Free to Air or Free Sky Card Irish TV on 28.2E Ku band is never going to happen. It's not remotely affordable.

Andy454

i think your missing the point.

RTE went on to sky digital due to loosing advertising revenue due to uptake of sky digital back in the early noughties.

It became apparent to them then, that people who had the digibox installed didn't go back to watching analogue services - (perhaps for the odd sporting event)

At that time, ntl's offering was rubbish, and it was also loosing hand over fist to sky.

There is real competition in the market now - UPC's offering with broadband, phone and 5euro multiroom is a real viable alternative.

RTE need to renegotiate their contract with sky and make it so that the card remains enabled for rte services regardless of an active subscribtion or not.

If sky lost rte tomorrow, its sales would take a nose dive.

There are subtle differences between the uk and irish markets

The number of freesat subscribers to manage is and was ten fold in the difference.

Sky had to have an entirely seperate department just to manage freesat calls.

Freesat from sky still exists and bbc / itv still employ nds to set the correct region

The following stations don't seem to be to bothered about the running costs of sky's encryption services...


Channel 5 HD
LFC TV
Motors TV
Sony Entertainment Television
Sony Entertainment Television +1
Sony Movie Channel
Sony Movie Channel +1
Viva

watty

Really you need to do some research. You have no idea about the issues and costs. There have been numerous threads and articles in the past.

The Cush

information notice from the Dept of Communications regarding the TV Licence and ASO

Important Notice

If you have a TV
YOU MUST have
a TV Licence.

This legal requirement does
not change after analogue
switch off on October 24th.

Fógra Tábhachtach

Má tá teilifíseán
agat, ní mór duit
Ceadúnas Teilifíse
bheith agat.

Ní thagann aon athrú ar an dlí ina
leith sin ar dheireadh a chur leis
an tseirbhís analógach ar an 24
Deireadh Fómhair.

Johnboy1951

For clarity, they should have added a definition of what a 'TV' is, for the purposes of the act.

It might have helped reduce the speculation ..... maybe ...

Andy454

I've had a tv for 20 years and never paid a licence...........................














..................................me mother pays it....

formerly scottish paddy

Andy454 wrote: »

I've had a tv for 20 years and never paid a licence...........................


..................................me mother pays it....

Says it all.........sad.

tedwilson08

Hi all,

I got a "Statutory Declaration" form thru the post addressed to me recently that says I need to sign it saying that I don't have a TV (which I do). What happens if I send this back to them and indicate that I don't have a TV? Do they show up with search warrants to check that you really don't have a TV? How far do they really bother going to determine if you really really don't have a TV?

Ta

tw

Bob24

tedwilson08 wrote: »

I got a "Statutory Declaration" form thru the post addressed to me recently that says I need to sign it saying that I don't have a TV (which I do). What happens if I send this back to them and indicate that I don't have a TV? Do they show up with search warrants to check that you really don't have a TV? How far do they really bother going to determine if you really really don't have a TV?

You might ge away with it, or you might not.

But even leaving morale asside, I don't think it is a good idea to lie on that form and send it back to them.

Not paying the licence because no one ever asked you if you have a TV is one thing (you can always say you didn't know and they will probably just let you get away with starting to pay it after you get caught). But lying on an official document for the clear purpose of avoiding to pay the licence it is another thing where you are clearly showing your intend to cheat the system and they have that one shall they want to bring you to court in the future.

If you get caught they might (rightly) hit you much harder for making fraudulant declarations on top of not buying the licence.

tedwilson08

Hi all,

I got a "Statutory Declaration" form thru the post addressed to me recently that I sign it and say that I don't have a TV (which I do). What happens if I send this back to them and indicate that I don't have a TV? Do they show up with search warrants to check that you really don't have a TV? How far do they really bother going to determine if you really don't have a TV?

Ta

tw

STB

Andy454 wrote: »

RTE is using sky's encryption services at present!

As part of negotiating the contract with sky for its channels to be carried, RTE should have stipulted that if an irish subscriber cancels - their viewing card will remain active to decode rte 1,2, tv3 and tg4 at the very least.

It is absolutely ridiculous that if someone cancels sky, they cut off rte!

When sky digital was launched first, subscribers in the uk had to subscribe to sky for 12 months and keep the box connected to an active telephone line to get their decoder and install at a subsidised price - Once the 12 months were up, the subscriber was free to cancel and although they lost the sky channels, they were still able to view bbc, itv, ch4 services.

No it is you who is missing the point.

RTE is only available on the Sky platform as it had to offer the channels on a must offer basis to ALL platforms who request them.

RTE's public service mandate is to provide a free to air service to the majority of the country on a set and independent platform. This is delivered via terrestrial TV in this country. It is now also carried on free to air satellite on 9E.

Now people who have private copntracts with subsciption only TV operations like Sky or UPC multinationls are their own business as they have chosen to ignore the free mechanisms that are available to view the Saorview channels.

The terrestrial platform is also required under legislation. We could not depend on Sky's platform as the primary one in the event of an emergency.

It is not RTE's business to pay for an FTV system. It is there responsibility to ensure that as many people as possible are able to watch the stations FTA.

Did you even consider what the effects of the population densities of UK and Ireland are in your badly compiled arguments ? Your posts make no sense. To be honest you come across as somebody who doesnt want to learn the reasons behind decisions as you seem to know better in your world.

If Sky lost RTE's tommorow they would lose substancial numbers of customers. A quick peruse of the audience figures for Tv consistent viewing habits in Ireland would have told you who could live without what over the past 10 years. Sky's immediate demand for RTE2HD under the must offer should have signalled that.

By the way, Ch5 HD WILL be free to air next year.

Again you need a Saorview box/Mpeg4 enabled box/Tv in order to watch Saorview free. You most certainly do not use an old redundant ex pay TV Sky box to view the chanels.

STB

tedwilson08 wrote: »

Hi all,

I got a "Statutory Declaration" form thru the post addressed to me recently that I sign it and say that I don't have a TV (which I do). What happens if I send this back to them and indicate that I don't have a TV? Do they show up with search warrants to check that you really don't have a TV? How far do they really bother going to determine if you really don't have a TV?

Ta

tw

It is expected that yoyu tell the truth ted.

I resent paying the TV licence because its an additional demand for money so dont expect any sympathy in the event you get caught. You either have one or you dont.

intbn

STB wrote: »

It is expected that yoyu tell the truth ted.

I resent paying the TV licence because its an additional demand for money so dont expect any sympathy in the event you get caught. You either have one or you dont.

There may be some other people on here a bit more familiar with the law than me but 'Statues' & 'Statutory Instruments' are all laws that have to be consented to, am I right?

So I figure what this little hustle is all about is, just as the others above said 'getting you to lie' or 'admitting you do have a telly' on paper. It's a good idea, I'll give them that and I'm surprised it's the first I've heard of it, saves them paying one wage of a tv license inspector for all the eejit that sign it confirming they do.
They now have you bewildered, thinking to yourself, I used to just ignore them when they knocked, now what will I do, whatever you do, don't sign it. It's your consent, in fact NEVER SIGN ANYTHING!!:D
No but seriously, if I where you, I'd just throw it in the fire and pretend you never received it.
In the unlikely event they send more and more, keep throwing them in the fire, maybe even make a nice door knocker out of paper mache with them and if they start resorting to ringing or knocking to the door;) then tell them you've not received them and that you won't be signing anything there on the spot either!
No jab against public servants but, half of them don't even realize talking people into waiving their rights, the best one after they've been caught out is, 'I was just following orders' & 'sure if it's been done this way for tens of years then it can't be unlawful'.
Sign nothin pal:cool:

P.S. even if you answered the door and there was a TV right there, 1 foot from the door blasting out spongebob into his face, all you have to say is, 'no you can't enter' they'll retaliate with 'well can you just sign'../bang door to the face,
now ye might think they'll go on to the gards and get them to make you answer the door but the fact is they need a warrant, AND they'll have to travel to the nearest district court to your area, mines about 25 minutes away.
In the meantime, put the telly into the car or move it into your next door neighbours house(assuming they'd already checked).
Even if they find no telly and try this 'c'mon now, I'm no eejit, I seen the telly(an hour ago lol), we both did, don't deny it' just say, 'there's no telly here, are you finshed your inspection because you're not welcome anymore if you are'.