cant stop thinking about this poor dog :(

meisha

my aunts neighbour has a jack russell in his garden,hes around 3 years old,the neighbour who is an elderly man has a home maid style kennell for him with just sheets off coal bags for a roof,i couldnt see the bottom but my aunt has said she saw him put some sort of metal in it :eek: i was talking to him and told him the living conditions were not suitable but he didnt take much notice of me and said the dog was fine,he has short hair and is living in those conditions and im losing sleep,will the dspca take the dog or just warm him?im going to call them either way!!

animalcrazy

Definitely call them. They may warn him, they make take the dog and press charges, it all depends on the situation and the man's attitude.

we'llallhavetea_old

maybe just bring him a sheet of timber that he could use as a floor instead?? i doubt the old man is intentionally harming the poor thing, just stupid!

meisha

even if he changed the floor the roof is still a bag :mad: the poor dog might as well have nothing! i just dont dont get it,some people are so stupid!!

animalcrazy

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

maybe just bring him a sheet of timber that he could use as a floor instead?? i doubt the old man is intentionally harming the poor thing, just stupid!

I still think the OP should still ring though. The DSPCA will know if he loves his dog and is trying his best and will help him.

meisha

i doubt he loves him,my aunt has never seen him being walked i hope they take him,his life must be miserable!!

we'llallhavetea_old

oh i'm sorry, i had an image of a proper roof with coal bag nailed to it to make it waterproof. maybe try one more time talking to him and let him know that you will have no choice but to ring the dspca if he doesn't fix it himself or let you help him fix it.

lrushe

Maybe just have another word with him, elderly people like this don't always understand the needs of a dogs, for some of them in their day a dog would have always slept outside in all weathers and just got the family's scraps for their dinner. I would call the DSPCA, but only as a last resort.

Satyr_The_Great

Once the dog has some form of shelter and bedding then theres not much the dspca can do once the dog is being fed and such.

baubl

lrushe wrote: »

Maybe just have another word with him, elderly people like this don't always understand the needs of a dogs, for some of them in their day a dog would have always slept outside in all weathers and just got the family's scraps for their dinner. I would call the DSPCA, but only as a last resort.

ask him if you can walk his dog, and offer to give help with a roof , these nights are too cold for jackrussels, they are very cold dogs, I have 3 of them, and they sleep in a basket in kitchen with nice fur cushion and microwaveable hot water bottles, they adore that, I pity that dog, get the poor creature inside some home if not his your own as soon as poss, he will die of cold if you do not

Dmighty

baubl wrote: »

I have 3 of them, and they sleep in a basket in kitchen with nice fur cushion and microwaveable hot water bottles, they adore that.

ah thats so sweet... i'd say you spoil them alot

Discodog

There is a serious misconception that any SPCA is going to prosecute & this puts people off from reporting This only ever happens in the most extreme circumstances. I had a similar situation & my local SPCA inspector did the following.

She visited the old man & with his permission took his dogs to the vet.
She paid the vet bills, provided dog food, & bedding.
She bought the dogs back to the man & over a cup of tea he agreed that she was welcome to pop back anytime.

SPCA inspectors will make every effort to be friendly & approachable. Their number one objective is to make the dog safe, healthy & with it's owner. The rescues are full. The last thing that an inspector wants to do is add to the problem.

meisha

i have found a free kennell on a free website im collecting it tomorrow and dropping it over

convert

I'd echo what lrushe has said. Maybe try to approach the man in a nice and helpful way. Something like, I was tidying up at home and found this blanket and thought maybe you'd like it for your dog? Or, I've some spare timber, and thought you might like it for the dog's kennel. Or, would you like me to do anything for you? This weather is awful and makes life difficult for you and your dog. Is there anything I can do to help, such as put a timber roof on the kennel?

The fact that you approached him in the manner you did would get anybody's back up. I'd be a bit peeved with you if you approached me as you described below. Also, don't forget, he could see you as a young know-it-all with little experience trying to tell him how to do things. Elderly people can resent this. Afterall, why should they change things they've done their whole life just because you tell them to. Do you see where I'm coming from? It's how you go about it that can make the difference. Do you think your aunt could have a chat with him and say that if he needs help that you'd be happy to do so?

meisha

convert wrote: »

I'd echo what lrushe has said. Maybe try to approach the man in a nice and helpful way. Something like, I was tidying up at home and found this blanket and thought maybe you'd like it for your dog? Or, I've some spare timber, and thought you might like it for the dog's kennel. Or, would you like me to do anything for you? This weather is awful and makes life difficult for you and your dog. Is there anything I can do to help, such as put a timber roof on the kennel?

The fact that you approached him in the manner you did would get anybody's back up. I'd be a bit peeved with you if you approached me as you described below. Also, don't forget, he could see you as a young know-it-all with little experience trying to tell him how to do things. Elderly people can resent this. Afterall, why should they change things they've done their whole life just because you tell them to. Do you see where I'm coming from? It's how you go about it that can make the difference. Do you think your aunt could have a chat with him and say that if he needs help that you'd be happy to do so?

i was only pointing out the obvious to him in case no1 else had,i was nice to him even though underneath it all i wanted to blow my top,where animals are concerned i dont mind falling out with people i just hope he doesnt mind me arriving with the kennell tomorrow..

baubl

meisha wrote: »

i was only pointing out the obvious to him in case no1 else had,i was nice to him even though underneath it all i wanted to blow my top,where animals are concerned i dont mind falling out with people i just hope he doesnt mind me arriving with the kennell tomorrow..

I have been thinking of that poor dog today, every time i go out, it is too cold to have him outside, you are great to help the poor mite, hope he survive this harsh time

convert

meisha wrote: »

i was only pointing out the obvious to him in case no1 else had,i was nice to him even though underneath it all i wanted to blow my top,where animals are concerned i dont mind falling out with people i just hope he doesnt mind me arriving with the kennell tomorrow..

I know your heart is in the right place, but I really, really think you're going about it the wrong way. Trying to force your opinion and ways on someone like this is not going to do any good. It's the same as me trying to tell you to vote for the Democrats when you're a Republican supporter, just because I believe their policies are better. Can you see where I'm coming from?

You really do mean well, but it's attitudes like this that can get people who work for animal shelters and animal welfare groups a bad name as being pushy and going a bit over the top in protecting animals. I've spoken to so many people who have complained about this type of action taken by people who work for animal welfare groups.

I think it's great that you are so caring and considerate about animals; God knows we need it, especially in the current climate (both economic and weather-wise), but maybe it's best to think about the best way to go about trying to help pets and educating their owners.

As has been mentioned in a previous post, SPCAs will do their utmost to educate the owners re. the care of their pets, only taking them when the situation is dire and cannot be improved.

Hopefully this man will appreciate what you're doing, but don't be surprised if you receive an icy reception and a request to leave his property (which he's entitled to do) and leave well enough alone. He may feel he is doing the best for his dog, as he would have done in the past, and does not actually realise how the unprecedented cold temperatures could effect the dog. Just something to bear in mind when you turn up at his home tomorrow.

Magenta

OP i think you should ask your aunt to speak to the man. Something like "my nephew has a dog kennel he doesn't need any more, if you like he can drop it over to you, your little fella might like it in this weather".

Often with old people they are set in their ways. You never know, the old man may not be able to afford a kennel or may not have a means to bring one home.
I think in this case you may catch more flies with honey than with vinegar i.e. offering to help. Once the dog gets the new kennel he'll probably be delighted with it and his owner will probably feel very guilty then for leaving him out in the cold in the old thing.

Graces7

Often too the old ones have no idea that they are treating their dogs badly?

It is a different generation.

We had good neighbours a while back, Caring gentle old folk. Kind to all.

Yet they kept a collie tied up ouside with inadequate shelter. When we took another collie in, they thought we were dreadlul letting her in the porch at night.

They kept it tied up because it was untrained and if it took off after the sheep they could not get it back again.

That was fine to them; as to all the other Irish dogs tied up outside in this weather.

Lollymcd

Don't forget to let us know how you get on

convert

How did you get on meisha?

animalcrazy

I'd love to hear what happened. Poor little guy, I love Jacks. They are such sweet lap dogs. Mine is right where all Jacks should be, snuggled up on their owners laps.

seamus

convert wrote: »

As has been mentioned in a previous post, SPCAs will do their utmost to educate the owners re. the care of their pets, only taking them when the situation is dire and cannot be improved.

The primary problem is that SPCA have no statutory powers, so if they arrive at a house and the owner tells them to piss off, there's pretty much nothing they can do about it. The Gardai can only enter and seize the animal if they're satisfied that the animal is being treated cruelly. Reports from neighbours don't really constitute evidence.

This is why the SPCA inspectors make an effort to speak to the owners and find out why the animal isn't getting the care it needs. A lot of them are very good at getting their point across, so if they can educate the owner and provide assistance where needed, it's less hassle for everyone.
Where they believe that the owner is incapable of caring for the animal long-term, they will make every effort to convince the owner to surrender the animal before taking the step of calling the Gardai.

Where you believe an animal is in distress, don't consider the local SPCA as the "nuclear" option in the same way that calling the Gardai would be. They don't want to seize an animal any more than you do.

meisha

well after a bit of a funny look the man excepted the kennell and buster has a new home,it was metal he was lying on hes in good shape but has no manners he destroyed me jumping up,i just told the man i got it for my dog and never used it he was happy so i chanced my arm and asked him if i could walk the dog and he agreed,got dragged down the road for half and hour but the dog was chuffed to be out,i told him if he doesnt mind ill walk him when im visiting my aunt(twice a week) so thank god it worked out and he didnt get offended!!!

Lollymcd

Well done Meisha, sounds like you handled the situation very well and the little guy will benifit as a result. Three cheers!

lrushe

meisha wrote: »

well after a bit of a funny look the man excepted the kennell and buster has a new home,it was metal he was lying on hes in good shape but has no manners he destroyed me jumping up,i just told the man i got it for my dog and never used it he was happy so i chanced my arm and asked him if i could walk the dog and he agreed,got dragged down the road for half and hour but the dog was chuffed to be out,i told him if he doesnt mind ill walk him when im visiting my aunt(twice a week) so thank god it worked out and he didnt get offended!!!

Well done!!!

Discodog

convert wrote: »

You really do mean well, but it's attitudes like this that can get people who work for animal shelters and animal welfare groups a bad name as being pushy and going a bit over the top in protecting animals. I've spoken to so many people who have complained about this type of action taken by people who work for animal welfare groups.

I find this very strange as I know a lot of the people who work with Animal Welfare. I think that the majority show remarkable restraint in the way that they deal with often appalling neglect. What do you mean by "a bit over the top". Are any of the people that complain linked to the Greyhound Industry ?.

There is a very fine line between ignorant neglect & wanton cruelty. You do not have to be an animal expert to know that a living creature feels hunger, pain, isolation & cold just like we do.

Maybe if more people read stories in the press about jail sentences for cruelty that it might make them think more about their actions. Some care & are misguided. A lot more simply don't care.

convert

Discodog wrote: »

I find this very strange as I know a lot of the people who work with Animal Welfare. I think that the majority show remarkable restraint in the way that they deal with often appalling neglect. What do you mean by "a bit over the top". Are any of the people that complain linked to the Greyhound Industry ?

No actually, they're not. These are people who are 'ordinary' dog owners who really care for their (rescue) dogs and look after them well - they sleep in a room in the house specifically dedicated to the dogs, feed them a varied and balanced diet, constant access to clean water, a huge yard in which they can be outdoors when the weather is suitable, are taken for two or three walks in the fields daily and are brought for a walk on the beach a few times a week, not to mention being brought to the vet for regular check ups, vaccs, worm doses, etc.

Anyway, they were at the beach with their dogs, and let them jump out of the back of the car, and had a person claiming to work for an animal rescue rip into them for allowing their dogs jump in/out of the back of the car instead of lifting them in/out or having a doggie ramp. According to them it was cruel to allow the dogs do this and told them that they had taken their car reg and would be reporting them to the relevant authorities for cruelty.

That's only one example. There are numerous other examples I could draw on, such as being challenged by an individual who works for the local SPCA and is personally known to me for using a fixed length lead rather than one which I can extend/retract as necessary.

In my opinion, there are far worse-off animals in desperate need of help out there. As you mentioned, you only have to read the paper to see the severe cases of cruelty that are occurring on a daily basis and highlight the animals that are in extreme need of help and care.

Discodog

You say "so many people" but you mention two very bizarre examples & I can't think of why someone would have a room dedicated to dogs. My dogs live in the house. They don't have a room. Their room is my room.

There is a good reason to be wary when a dog jumps in or out of a car as I know to my cost. My Saluki loves going in the jeep & one day I opened the passenger door & she jumped in unexpectedly. She needed 14 stitches in her leg because it caught the edge of the door.

People in Ireland barely notice animal abuse let alone complain about it. Even your lead example is very odd. Expert opinion regards Flexi leads as potentially dangerous. Many dogs have been killed or injured where an owner has not realised that the brake was not on. There is no logical reason why someone would suggest that your dog should not be on a fixed length lead.

seamus

Discodog wrote: »

There is a good reason to be wary when a dog jumps in or out of a car as I know to my cost. My Saluki loves going in the jeep & one day I opened the passenger door & she jumped in unexpectedly. She needed 14 stitches in her leg because it caught the edge of the door.

People in Ireland barely notice animal abuse let alone complain about it. Even your lead example is very odd. Expert opinion regards Flexi leads as potentially dangerous. Many dogs have been killed or injured where an owner has not realised that the brake was not on. There is no logical reason why someone would suggest that your dog should not be on a fixed length lead.

I think the point is that someone who works for a rescue, particularly an SPCA, shouldn't consider themselves as a crusader for all dogs everywhere. If someone lets their dog jump in and out of a car, that's none of anyone else's business. Whatever kind of lead someone wants to use, again none of anyone else's business.

As long as the animal is happy, loved and looked after, the rescue worker should be keeping their nose out of it. Letting a dog jump in and out of a car does not require their intervention.

It would be the equivalent of a social worker attacking a mother on the street for not having their child walking in a high-vis jacket. Yes, it's a good idea, but not doing so doesn't constitute cruelty or neglect.

Discodog

I find the dog jumping into the back of the car story to be pretty unbelievable & especially the dog lead story. The people that I know that work in animal welfare spend all the day & half the night trying to reduce the 25,000 dogs that are killed every year. They have to battle for every cent that they get, they have to accept a low level of public support, & a total lack of government interest.

I suspect that if the above happened it wasn't a rescue worker that made the remarks. If an SPCA Inspector advised the use of a Flexi lead then I would ask that someone PM's me with more information.

convert

seamus wrote: »

I think the point is that someone who works for a rescue, particularly an SPCA, shouldn't consider themselves as a crusader for all dogs everywhere. If someone lets their dog jump in and out of a car, that's none of anyone else's business. Whatever kind of lead someone wants to use, again none of anyone else's business.

As long as the animal is happy, loved and looked after, the rescue worker should be keeping their nose out of it. Letting a dog jump in and out of a car does not require their intervention.

It would be the equivalent of a social worker attacking a mother on the street for not having their child walking in a high-vis jacket. Yes, it's a good idea, but not doing so doesn't constitute cruelty or neglect.

That's my point exactly. Thank you for putting it so eloquently and succinctly!

Discodog

Seamus may have reinforced your point but he has also thanked my post that questions you or your friend's account of events. You seem to know of lots of cases where people have been approached in the street by animal welfare workers. I have never heard of one.

I would also have to wonder, how much weight that I should give to someone's opinion on animal welfare when it would appear that they support Greyhound Racing.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

I would also have to wonder, how much weight that I should give to someone's opinion on animal welfare when it would appear that they support Greyhound Racing.

Totally irrelevant.Convert is involved in this discussion and whether they mod Greyhound racing or not is nothing to do with this forum and its discussions so dont even go there or I will issue you with an infraction or ban.

baubl

meisha wrote: »

well after a bit of a funny look the man excepted the kennell and buster has a new home,it was metal he was lying on hes in good shape but has no manners he destroyed me jumping up,i just told the man i got it for my dog and never used it he was happy so i chanced my arm and asked him if i could walk the dog and he agreed,got dragged down the road for half and hour but the dog was chuffed to be out,i told him if he doesnt mind ill walk him when im visiting my aunt(twice a week) so thank god it worked out and he didnt get offended!!!

good on you
the dog will get used to the walk and look forward to seeing you, after a few walks this pulling will stop and learn to socialise, it must have been very lonely, now buster will have a life, hold on to any strong bones you may have after dinner, buster will love them, they will pass many hours for him, as well as clean and pare his teeth
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