question regarding commercial tax

weeder

We have always commercially taxed and insured our vans,we bought a van today and my dads mechanic has advised of a new rule where we would need to tax it privately now as we are not a registered company. is this true or nonsense? it will double the tax if so which is not the issue,
basically the woman in the tax office told us that if it was privately taxed we couldnt doe it, but we cannot nct it either and it would have some sort of exemption.


now im sure there is somthing im missing here, we dont mind taxing it or testing it but we do not know what is needed so we would appreciate it if someone set the record straight for us
thanks

weeder

anyone?

kodak

It's true about the exemption. That's way a small car van with a petrol engine is great, as it is cheap tax and no tests. However, I would prefer having a test as it is a little piece of mind!
I haven't heard anything of this new rule. If that's the case I'll be selling my Van!

Max Headroom

But wouldnt it cost a fortune to privately tax a van because they generally have big engines...

kodak

Yeah mine is 1753cc

Private Tax is €551

Commercial Tax is €288 & 85 (DOE) = 373

Difference is €178

And that's only for a 1.8 Diesel

P.S Forgot mine is a carvan- I think it's a little different for vans...

Max Headroom

Mine would be ..784.:eek:

as against 373....:)

some difference, even considering no test/nct...

dsane1

There was a thread on this a few months ago ,no real answer to the question iirc. It seems to be ,people are causing a problem by buying a commercial vehicle and wanting to use it privately ,even paying private tax rate !

zziplex

I tried to tax my van commercially last week and could not as i needed a vat number etc.

I taxed it private this was €10 dearer than commercial tax on my 1.4 diesel. Taxing privately does NOT make you exempt from doe or nct. To tax a van private the tax office does not need the doe cert although the gardai will ask for a doe. Im taxed private now but paid the €6 optional charge in tax office and I will continue to put my van through tests so im covered if I meet a grumpy cop.

So basically to tax commercial you need a company with vat number,

And taxing private means the tax office does not need a doe cert but gardai can ask for it if they wish.

Max Headroom

zziplex wrote: »

I tried to tax my van commercially last week and could not as i needed a vat number
etc.



So basically to tax commercial you need a company with vat number,



Is this a new thing...i dont have a vat number and i taxed/tested my van just before christmas..??

Guy:Incognito

I just got my motor tax renewal reminder in the post and theres no mention of any change in requirements about vat nmbers etc, just the standard rf100A and a return envelope.

kodak

zziplex wrote: »

I tried to tax my van commercially last week and could not as i needed a vat number etc.

I taxed it private this was €10 dearer than commercial tax on my 1.4 diesel. Taxing privately does NOT make you exempt from doe or nct. To tax a van private the tax office does not need the doe cert although the gardai will ask for a doe. Im taxed private now but paid the €6 optional charge in tax office and I will continue to put my van through tests so im covered if I meet a grumpy cop.

So basically to tax commercial you need a company with vat number,

And taxing private means the tax office does not need a doe cert but gardai can ask for it if they wish.

Hi,
Is yours a car van, out of interest? Thanks

zziplex

Yes it is forgot to mention that.....

not sure if thats any diffrent to a standard van though.

Our man in Havana

So basically to tax commercial you need a company with vat number,

That is nonsense. Commercial insurance is the key here.

Sole traders are not companies and they can tax commercially.
You only need a VAT number if turnover exceeds €70000 per year.

zziplex

I am insured commercially.............

kodak

I have a Car Van

Insured - Private (quinn)

Taxed - Commercial

Never asked for a VAT number etc.

ALways do a DOE and send it in with tax reminder, never any questions asked.

Super confusing!

zziplex

Hi kodak I also have a car van also insured with quinn but commercially.When i went to tax the van commercially(I have doe) I was told I needed a vat number? I dont have one so the girl said I can tax private and it was €93 euro private instead of €81 commercial(1.4 diesel)
They told me in the tax office that the gardai can if they wish look for a doe cert off anyone who taxes privately even though its not needed to tax the van.

Kodak is there much of a price diffrence in your case with quinn on private/commercial cover? Just wondering it may pay me to change??Anyway thats the end of my story sorry if I confused anyone but im only going off what I was told last week in the tax office.

Our man in Havana

No VAT number is needed. Clearly some officials are making up their own rules.

zziplex

I dont know I went to 2 diffrent people in the tax office and reply was the same from both. I am the new owner of the van so maybe the rules changed from jan 1st for new owner applicants? Im confused now myself.

Honda08

zziplex wrote: »

I dont know I went to 2 diffrent people in the tax office and reply was the same from both. I am the new owner of the van so maybe the rules changed from jan 1st for new owner applicants? Im confused now myself.

never heard of that before.
probably another new gormless green party mad idea..

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

weeder

the van is a citeroen berlingo, afaik the rule only applies if you are taxing for the first time in your name, so any existing owners can keep renewing it commercially, or so the mechanic tells us. we could keep taxing our current van commercially but if we get a new one we will be asked for a vat number.

nearly doubles the tax for the 1.9 van but the doe is what was concerning us.

Our man in Havana

Again, many commercial users would not legally ever need a VAT number if they are under the thresholds.
Many tax offices seem to have their own peculiar rules. Wicklow has it's mad goods vehicle declarations, which are unheard of elsewhere for example.

zziplex

Ok so I was right it is a new rule for new owners.

You can still doe your van when taxed private(the tax office dont need it but the gardai do)

Our man in Havana

(the tax office dont need it but the gardai do)

That would be an interesting topic for the legal forum.

zziplex

Bond-007 wrote: »

That is nonsense. Commercial insurance is the key here.

Sole traders are not companies and they can tax commercially.
You only need a VAT number if turnover exceeds €70000 per year.

Bond-007 wrote: »

No VAT number is needed. Clearly some officials are making up their own rules.

Seems Its not nonsence!.......as for the doe issue with the cops why dont you post it on the legal forum? Im only repeating what was told to me and what I had to do to tax my vehicle.

Marlow

You don't need a VAT number to tax it commercially, but it's the easiest way to prove, that you are using it commercially.

I guess, if you don't have a VAT number, you can always bring proof, that you are a sole trader and they would let you tax it commercially (or would be forced to do so).

As for the DOE, every van and car van needs DOE, privately taxed or not. A lot of insurances won't cover without, a few won't even give you insurance before it's done and the garda certainly will pull you for it.

The Tax office doesn't care about NCT/DOE anymore and hasn't done for at least 2 years, because it was too much hassle for them and people taxing online got around it anyhow. Still doesn't make the van/carvan road legal.

/M

al30

Husband went to tax his 04 van today. he is unemployed but needs the van to look for work. Was told as he does not have a income tax registration number he has to tax it privately which will be about €400 dearer.

Does this mean as it will now be private he does not need a doe every year but a NCT every two years?

so confused

Our man in Havana

Nope. DOE every year for him still.

Marlow

al30 wrote: »

Does this mean as it will now be private he does not need a doe every year but a NCT every two years?

The van is still classified commercially and vrt was paid as commercial vehicle, so DOE applies, even though the roadtax is paid as private.

Only if he reclassified the van with the VRO and paid the difference in VRT he would have to go to the NCT afterwards.

Just because he's paying private roadtax on it now, doesn't allow him to install seats in the rear either.

/M

mickdw

Nobody can legally require a VAT number in order to tax a van. In my particular case, Im a sole trader, tax compliant but not VAT regd as Im not required to be under a certain threshold.
ive heard all sorts, even Gormleys statement seems to call for a VAT number or Tax clearance cert. Now the VAT number idea is nonsense as above and the tax clearance cert idea is even worse as anybody can apply for tax clearance, in fact all TDs have tax clearance so that law would allow a TD get a commercial.

Guy:Incognito

Ive never been questioned or asked for anything other than my doe. Ive taxed it as recently as last friday week

al30

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ive never been questioned or asked for anything other than my doe. Ive taxed it as recently as last friday week

Husband was told it was been enforced from today 1st feb

Tefral

al30 wrote: »

Husband was told it was been enforced from today 1st feb

Girl inside in work was told this today when she went do to tax her commercial landrover. No VAT number No Commercial Tax is what she was told

Guy:Incognito

al30 wrote: »

Husband was told it was been enforced from today 1st feb

This thread started over a year ago. theres been numerous threads about this, it's always starting next week or next month. I'll believe it when I see it.

Atlantic Dawn

cronin_j wrote: »

Girl inside in work was told this today when she went do to tax her commercial landrover. No VAT number No Commercial Tax is what she was told

Get her to seek in writing from the person in the tax office that they will not issue her the VAT number because she has no VAT number, they will refuse to do this and just give her the tax.

Marlow

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ive never been questioned or asked for anything other than my doe. Ive taxed it as recently as last friday week

Is your van registered in your personal name or in a company name/trade name ? That makes a lot of difference on the questions for paperwork. If it's registered in a company name/trade name, there are usually zero questions when taxing as commercial.

/M

paddyp

My friend is married to a girl from motortax she told me as a sole trader to write my pps in the box.

al30

paddyp wrote: »

My friend is married to a girl from motortax she told me as a sole trader to write my pps in the box.

was thinking of doing that, wonder will it work

al30

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This thread started over a year ago. theres been numerous threads about this, it's always starting next week or next month. I'll believe it when I see it.

Believe me it happened today, see he is unemployed so does not have the revenue number they are looking for and he hardly ever uses the van mostly uses my car, but if he does get any work he needs the van and too many miles on it too sell it

Guy:Incognito

Marlow wrote: »

Is your van registered in your personal name or in a company name/trade name ? That makes a lot of difference on the questions for paperwork. If it's registered in a company name/trade name, there are usually zero questions when taxing as commercial.

/M

It's regestered to me personnally.

al30

al30 wrote: »

Believe me it happened today, see he is unemployed so does not have the revenue number they are looking for and he hardly ever uses the van mostly uses my car, but if he does get any work he needs the van and too many miles on it too sell it

update:

He went to the Guards last night and they stamped the form, he just put his PPS number in it, guard said he was getting fed up with the amount of people coming in because of it. Brought it to the tax office today and got his commercial tax.

Mary White Green Party just knocked on the door, god love her she got more then she bargained for with me, but when I told her about the tax office she said they were wrong and looked at husbands van and said that it was only brand new vans that you need to sign the declaration for. Hope this helps

Fey!

3 months ago I was told in Galway that I didn't need to fill out extra forms.

Yesterday I went in to retax the van, and I ended up being sent to the Garda station to get a declaration signed and stamped stating that I'd ONLY be using the vehicle for work. I also had to declare what my business is.

My van is registered to me, insured commercially, so I used my PPS number rather than our VAT number. I also have a private car taxed and insured privately, even though I spend more time in the van!

When I asked about crewcabs, which our other commercial vehicle is, being used privately, they couldn't give me an answer (the crewcab idea was to avoid people having to have a van and a car, in my understanding).

The declaration at the moment is for all commercials under 3,500kg when tax is being renewed, taxed for the first time under new ownership, or taxed for the first time. It only has to be done once during your ownership of the vehicle.

Vanman1

Fey! wrote: »

3 months ago I was told in Galway that I didn't need to fill out extra forms.

Yesterday I went in to retax the van, and I ended up being sent to the Garda station to get a declaration signed and stamped stating that I'd ONLY be using the vehicle for work. I also had to declare what my business is.

My van is registered to me, insured commercially, so I used my PPS number rather than our VAT number. I also have a private car taxed and insured privately, even though I spend more time in the van!

When I asked about crewcabs, which our other commercial vehicle is, being used privately, they couldn't give me an answer (the crewcab idea was to avoid people having to have a van and a car, in my understanding).

The declaration at the moment is for all commercials under 3,500kg when tax is being renewed, taxed for the first time under new ownership, or taxed for the first time. It only has to be done once during your ownership of the vehicle.

So did everything go smoothly in tax office with you using your PPS number instead of a VAT number?

Fey!

No bother; they actually told me at the counter to use PPS if I couldn't remember our VAT number.

corktina

Fey! wrote: »

(the crewcab idea was to avoid people having to have a van and a car, in my understanding).

QUOTE]

crew cab is to carry a work crew of course, although I dont doubt many bought them to do as you say, even though you arent supposed to use a Commercial for any Private use (we all do of course)

waxon-waxoff

I dont know why this issue keeps appearing. Different motor tax offices seem to have different rules. I taxed a van last week, got the renewal letter in the post, filled it in and posted it back with laser card details and few days later got my tax disc. No questions about a vat number or anything else

Vanman1

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

I dont know why this issue keeps appearing. Different motor tax offices seem to have different rules. I taxed a van last week, got the renewal letter in the post, filled it in and posted it back with laser card details and few days later got my tax disc. No questions about a vat number or anything else

Yes, but did you tax it before 1st February? My understanding is that they have moved the goalposts and as and from Feb 1st all commercial vehicle owners will be obliged to get the declaration form signed at Garda Barracks and submit a VAT number but if a PPS number will suffice then it shouldn't be to much of a problem....just time consuming

dgt

This thread has been very educational

To further complicate and confuse... I have a private car thats converted to a carvan. I will be getting it inspected at the tax office to change the tax book so it says 2 seats instead of 5, along with an engineers report for the insurance. But keeping it private tax, private insurance, private class. Whats the implications when it comes to testing and taxing?

Also as this car has been off the road for some time now, I heard that declaring the non road use has changed, am I correct? And if so, whats the process to getting the car on the rad again? Any help is much appreciated

al30

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

I dont know why this issue keeps appearing. Different motor tax offices seem to have different rules. I taxed a van last week, got the renewal letter in the post, filled it in and posted it back with laser card details and few days later got my tax disc. No questions about a vat number or anything else

Think Kilkenny and Wicklow are the worst ones for it

Our man in Havana

al30 wrote: »

Think Kilkenny and Wicklow are the worst ones for it

There are some right tin pot dictators in Wicklow that is for sure.

Guy:Incognito

dgt wrote: »

This thread has been very educational

To further complicate and confuse... I have a private car thats converted to a carvan. I will be getting it inspected at the tax office to change the tax book so it says 2 seats instead of 5, along with an engineers report for the insurance. But keeping it private tax, private insurance, private class. Whats the implications when it comes to testing and taxing?

Also as this car has been off the road for some time now, I heard that declaring the non road use has changed, am I correct? And if so, whats the process to getting the car on the rad again? Any help is much appreciated

Whats the point of doing that if I may ask?

You have none of the benefits of a van (cheaper tax) while not having the benefits of a car (5 seats) . Would it not have been easier to just drop the seats when needed?

Oil_drip

Hi hope this thread still going. I taxed my van last week and was asked to get the decleration filled out. As this was not possible I was asked did I want to do it private. They tool my tax book and said I would be sent out a new one in the post. I had the DOE cert in my hand and I was handing it over and they said they did not need it. I taxed for six months and I asked will I need the DOE cert then they said no. My question is where do I now go for my cert and since the Van now is private is the one I have good for Two years and Can I go to an NCT center to get a cert. I also noticed in the Office posters up about the need to tax a van prviate if you do not have the necessary documentation and on this it said that Vans to be taxed private will be done by CC. This leads to the next question if the Van is after Jan 08 should it not be taxed via emmisions rather than CC if its Private. Looks like there is another mess for those who now have to tax private.