Gilroy

tomaoo7

Are Dublin posters on here happy with gilroy after 12 months do you believe he can bring sam back to the capital..Im not so sure but its early yet..:eek:

Orizio

There were maybe 5-6 footballers on that Dublin team that would be good enough to win an AI. Unless there are a dozen or so unearthed gems in Dublin GAA, then regardless of the manager, Dublin aren't going to get far beyond Leinster.

Mr. Incognito

No, Dublin get torn apart every year when they meet decent opposition.

Until the team stop believing their own hype and set realistic and incremental barometers of improvement they haven't a hope of learning from their mistakes which is where they are going wrong.

Dublin aren't beaten every year, they just fail to turn up etc etc.

telecaster

Gilroy appears to have made a mess of the Ciaran Whelan and Shane Ryan situations. He may also have Keaney walking out on him. He hasn't really done anything that you could credit him with yet.

The jury is out. There is no All Ireland in this current group of players and I think that's accepted by the Dublin public.

Gilroy needs to uncover some new players and solve the midfield problem as a priority.

dcr22B

We'll be lucky to stay in NFL1 let alone even consider winning Leinster.

All talk of an All Ireland for us should be banned for the next few years as it's simply not going to happen.

spongeman

Dublin have good players but they need a manager from outside Dublin.

An Citeog

spongeman wrote: »

Dublin have good players but they need a manager from outside Dublin.

Like who?

tomaoo7

not many replys

jackcee

tomaoo7 wrote: »

not many replys

I dont believe that anybody is in a position to make any kind of informed comment on Pat Gilroy.

The guy has to get a chance.

With little time to settle in, I felt that he had made some progress last year. That performance against Kildare was one to be admired. And Kildare were a much tougher nut to crack than any of the teams that we had served up us in recent Leinster Finals.

Nobody would have lived with Kerry that day - and they got that tonic start. Even at that, there were a few occasions in the first half when, if we got a bit of a better rub, we could have gone in at half-time, very much in touch. In fact, we got no rub, at all, that day - which happens just every now and then. We just had to live with it.

We are only short a few top class players. Very few counties have 15 top class players. Even Kerry and Tyrone have a number of journeymen.

So, let's give Pat Gilroy a chance to make his mark. And remember, only one team can win the All-Ireland - so please dont make that the only measure of measuring the man.

Gingy

I'm personally happy enough with Gilroy. He's not afraid to make some tough calls and dropping supposed experienced players (not all have worked though!)

There's a lot of talk amongst Dublin GAA supporters that Gilroy shouldn't just throw 10 new lads into the team, but in my opinion, that's exactly what he should do. Start off with a fresh panel and clear some of the older cobwebs. The current squad have too much baggage from recent heavy defeats and a mental block in big games, if a fresh impetus of 5/6 eager lads came in, they could make us a decent force.

That's why I hope he gives loads of lads a chance in the O'Byrne cup and league. Our main aim for the early season should be finding new players who would be suitable for the championship, I feel this should have higher importance than doing well in the league.

Spiritoftheseventies

Gingy wrote: »

I'm personally happy enough with Gilroy. He's not afraid to make some tough calls and dropping supposed experienced players (not all have worked though!)

There's a lot of talk amongst Dublin GAA supporters that Gilroy shouldn't just throw 10 new lads into the team, but in my opinion, that's exactly what he should do. Start off with a fresh panel and clear some of the older cobwebs. The current squad have too much baggage from recent heavy defeats and a mental block in big games, if a fresh impetus of 5/6 eager lads came in, they could make us a decent force.

That's why I hope he gives loads of lads a chance in the O'Byrne cup and league. Our main aim for the early season should be finding new players who would be suitable for the championship, I feel this should have higher importance than doing well in the league.

Yes without a lot of players back at college and involved in the sigerson we wont know much about state of dublin team till start of the league.
But expect to see Ross O' Carroll involved this season and maybe Dean Rock who is a very good prospect

Drummerboy2

Up to the debacle against Kerry he actually seemed to be making progress, beating a decent Kildare team with 14 men. However, it would take a miracle to win an All Ireland title in the next 2 years. He has to rebuild the team and this could take some time.

As regards the hype, this is something heaped on to the Dublin players by the National Press, many of whom are not Dublin natives and are only too delighted to see them fail.

Lemlin

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Up to the debacle against Kerry he actually seemed to be making progress, beating a decent Kildare team with 14 men. However, it would take a miracle to win an All Ireland title in the next 2 years. He has to rebuild the team and this could take some time.

As regards the hype, this is something heaped on to the Dublin players by the National Press, many of whom are not Dublin natives and are only too delighted to see them fail.

I hate this urban myth put forward by Dublin supporters that its the culchie press who hype them up and then love to see them fail.

Keith Barr was the one labelling Dublin the 2nd best team in Ireland this year when only halfway through the championship - he isn't a culchie.

It's also the Herald which creates alot of the hype and its a Dublin paper.

Spiritoftheseventies

Lemlin wrote: »

It's also the Herald which creates alot of the hype and its a Dublin paper.

what do you expect them to do. And to be fair they did a very good overview of the situation last year when talking to three former Dublin players after the Kerry game. No question they glossed over the Kerry game.

billyhead

Lads,

Do you think they will accept the parnell pass this sunday for the Obyrne cup game?

curraghyid

gilroy needs at least another year.Dublin were the focus of a kerry storm last year.
And true werent equipped to deal with it physically or more importantly mentally.every championship its been the same not at the races at the business end of the season and the reason we,re just not good enough ocarroll rock and mccauley all look like they will could make contributions this year but they shouldnt be exected to be miracle workers.
i for one would like to see a good league run beat kerry and tyrone away in the league then maybe the panel can start to believe in themselves a bit more come summer.

Lemlin

bayviewclose wrote: »

what do you expect them to do. And to be fair they did a very good overview of the situation last year when talking to three former Dublin players after the Kerry game. No question they glossed over the Kerry game.

Give unbiased coverage? Is that so much to ask for.

The Herald has every right to focus on Dublin but I don't see why they have to hype up the team beyond belief. Then every time people speak about the hype around Dublin, we're told it's the culchie media. Are FM 104 and 98 FM country stations?

That's my point. The Herald is a terrible paper anyway. It's the Irish version of the Sun, although we're not here to debate the pros and cons of different papers.

Spiritoftheseventies

Lemlin wrote: »

Give unbiased coverage? Is that so much to ask for.

The Herald has every right to focus on Dublin but I don't see why they have to hype up the team beyond belief. Then every time people speak about the hype around Dublin, we're told it's the culchie media. Are FM 104 and 98 FM country stations?

That's my point. The Herald is a terrible paper anyway. It's the Irish version of the Sun, although we're not here to debate the pros and cons of different papers.

Anyway dont expect that much out of dublin this year given they are the rebuilding process. But we need to start playing players in their best positions. For me Ross O Carroll starts in the half back and then there is Fennell to come back into the midfield once this transfer business is sorted.

Kenteach

Think the newspaper thing is a bit irrelevant to be honest. If a player, or a team, or a manager, base their approach on what the media is saying, i.e. believing their own hype, then they are screwed from the off.
I don't think any other manager would have got more out of that Dublin squad last season. And by demanding an extension, Gilroy feels the same, i.e its not a case of progressing with current structures and players, that some form of rebuild is necessary that coudn't be achieved in one season. Whatever about the extended panel, I don't know enough about Dublin club football for that, but it is quite obvious that the core of the Dublin squad needs significant new blood (and by new I don't necessarily mean young). There are players who are living off reputation. Some even living off an undeserved reputation. Teams who win the big matches generally do so because they absolutely will not accept defeat. Not sure dublin have that mentality yet. Gilroy may or may not be the man who gets them there, but he has done nothing to suggest he doesn't deserve the chance to try.

dcr22B

billyhead wrote: »

Lads,

Do you think they will accept the parnell pass this sunday for the Obyrne cup game?

Afraid not.

It's a Leinster Council game and the admission price goes toward the injured players fund.

Spiritoftheseventies

dcr22B wrote: »

Afraid not.

It's a Leinster Council game and the admission price goes toward the injured players fund.

which is for a good cause. Yes parnell Park pass seems to offer very good value overall.

An Citeog

bayviewclose wrote: »

Anyway dont expect that much out of dublin this year given they are the rebuilding process. But we need to start playing players in their best positions. For me Ross O Carroll starts in the half back and then there is Fennell to come back into the midfield once this transfer business is sorted.

Not a chance. The panel is littered with natural wing backs but thankfully Ross O'Carroll isn't one of them. The problems were in the full back line this year and that's why he's been brought into the squad, to play either full back or in the corner.

Het-Field

I dont think there is any good in keeping Quinn, Sherlock (who is not officially retired), Connolly, Lally, Bonner, O Shaughnessy, Bastick or Paul Casey around the team. They are relics of the 2005-2009 era. I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition, who has had one half decent season.

If I were Giilroy, I would build the side around Cluxton,Henry,Cahill,A.Brogan, B.Brogan, and Bryan Cullen. I would increase and mould the likes of Brennan, Davoren and Vaughan, while introducing the likes of Declan O Mahoney, Dean Rock, and Rory O Carroll into the team. The likes of Eamonn Fennell must be re-engaged as soon as possible.

Spiritoftheseventies

Het-Field wrote: »

I dont think there is any good in keeping Quinn, Sherlock (who is not officially retired), Connolly, Lally, Bonner, O Shaughnessy, Bastick or Paul Casey around the team. They are relics of the 2005-2009 era. I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition, who has had one half decent season.

If I were Giilroy, I would build the side around Cluxton,Henry,Cahill,A.Brogan, B.Brogan, and Bryan Cullen. I would increase and mould the likes of Brennan, Davoren and Vaughan, while introducing the likes of Declan O Mahoney, Dean Rock, and Rory O Carroll into the team. The likes of Eamonn Fennell must be re-engaged as soon as possible.

Not sure about Dec O'Mahony. He just gets involved in too many off the ball incidents. Which is a shame because he has a lot to offer Dublin. A very mobile midfield but he just seems to react too much.

jackcee

Het-Field wrote: »

I dont think there is any good in keeping Quinn, Sherlock (who is not officially retired), Connolly, Lally, Bonner, O Shaughnessy, Bastick or Paul Casey around the team. They are relics of the 2005-2009 era. I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition, who has had one half decent season.

If I were Giilroy, I would build the side around Cluxton,Henry,Cahill,A.Brogan, B.Brogan, and Bryan Cullen. I would increase and mould the likes of Brennan, Davoren and Vaughan, while introducing the likes of Declan O Mahoney, Dean Rock, and Rory O Carroll into the team. The likes of Eamonn Fennell must be re-engaged as soon as possible.

I sincerely hope that you are just guilty of loose wording when you write "I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition........."

While we get your point that you dont think that Ross McC is not worth a place in the panel, I really have to object to the use of such dismissive language in relation to any of our (amateur) players. Assuming that you are a supportive fan, I will take it that your use of such language is inadvertent and not reflective of your view of any player.

Spiritoftheseventies

jackcee wrote: »

I sincerely hope that you are just guilty of loose wording when you write "I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition........."

While we get your point that you dont think that Ross McC is not worth a place in the panel, I really have to object to the use of such dismissive language in relation to any of our (amateur) players. Assuming that you are a supportive fan, I will take it that your use of such language is inadvertent and not reflective of your view of any player.

Yeah think McConnell had a decent season for his club. Had an unfortunate season at full back for Dublin two seasons ago but like Niall O'Shea has not let it hold him back. And yes agree these guys are amatuers and as such they give an awful lot to the game.

aidan24326

jackcee wrote:

Nobody would have lived with Kerry that day

I'd agree with that. Kerry were at their awesome best that day, though the fact Dublin finished 17 points behind them tells you how much work Dublin have to do to close on the top teams.

That Kerry game aside, Gilroy did ok (but only ok) in his first season. Personally I don't think he's a big enough name/personality for that job. In any case the Dublin team of the last few years has been shown up as not good enough to win an All-Ireland, and if I was a Dubs supporter I'd be looking for a few new names on the teamsheet through this year's ;eague and into the championship if they're good enough. As a Galwayman, I am hoping to see Joe Kernan take a similair approach of giving some new players a chance.

Mullet

Lemlin wrote: »

Give unbiased coverage? Is that so much to ask for.

The Herald has every right to focus on Dublin but I don't see why they have to hype up the team beyond belief. Then every time people speak about the hype around Dublin, we're told it's the culchie media. Are FM 104 and 98 FM country stations?

That's my point. The Herald is a terrible paper anyway. It's the Irish version of the Sun, although we're not here to debate the pros and cons of different papers.

It is the Culchie Media. Some of the nonsense written by the herald is a joke. Check were their gaa journalists are from. Then add Brehany and McGee who add many column inches of hype. Why do they not write about the cavans and westmeaths of this world??

Orizio

Culchie media? Are you people for real?

Gingy

Het-Field wrote: »

I dont think there is any good in keeping Quinn, Sherlock (who is not officially retired), Connolly, Lally, Bonner, O Shaughnessy, Bastick or Paul Casey around the team. They are relics of the 2005-2009 era. I have made it clear that it would also be useful to boot the likes of Ross McConnell from the team as he has been a dubious addition, who has had one half decent season.

If I were Giilroy, I would build the side around Cluxton,Henry,Cahill,A.Brogan, B.Brogan, and Bryan Cullen. I would increase and mould the likes of Brennan, Davoren and Vaughan, while introducing the likes of Declan O Mahoney, Dean Rock, and Rory O Carroll into the team. The likes of Eamonn Fennell must be re-engaged as soon as possible.

I mostly agree, I've been preaching this to my friends and on other internet sites for a while. Gilroy needs to do a re-vamp of the whole panel. I would possibly change Griffin with Cullen on the list of players that Gilroy should build the team around. Cullen has a lot of work to do to maintain his position on the team.

As for specific players, Ross on the wing would be a bad move, he and/or his brother Rory should be tried out in the full-back line.

I don't think Declan O'Mahony has a huge amount to offer the Dublin midfield, his midfield partner McAuley was more impressive in the Dublin championship. McAuley/Fennell/Magee should be the ones battling out for the midfield spots.

As for Dean Rock, the poor young lad has filled more column inches because of his name rather than his ability, give him a few years to make his own name. From what I've seen of him play, I don't think he's up to championship standard yet, but maybe in a few years.

Only a few days into the year, not a ball kicked and we're already planning our championship teams, this season can't start quick enough

Lemlin

Mullet wrote: »

It is the Culchie Media. Some of the nonsense written by the herald is a joke. Check were their gaa journalists are from. Then add Brehany and McGee who add many column inches of hype. Why do they not write about the cavans and westmeaths of this world??

I don't read The Herald so I wouldn't know where their journalists are from.

As for why they don't write about the Cavans or Westmeath, it's because The Herald pays them to write tripe about Dublin.

The Herald is a Dublin paper. 98FM and FM104 are Dublin radio stations and all you hear all over them all Summer is that they are following the Blue Army to Croker!

GAARAZY

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't read The Herald so I wouldn't know where their journalists are from.

As for why they don't write about the Cavans or Westmeath, it's because The Herald pays them to write tripe about Dublin.

The Herald is a Dublin paper. 98FM and FM104 are Dublin radio stations and all you hear all over them all Summer is that they are following the Blue Army to Croker!

And what are they supposed to do tell the people of Dublin not to support their county?!?!?! If their countyfolk can't support their team without being slated for it I dunno what the GAA is coming to, I'm sure Leitrim supporters still shout for their county team even though they know that the chances are they aint gonna get very far in the National Leagues etc etc!!

At the end of the day the Dublin GAA team will always attract hype, for what reason I don't know and if you chat to many Dublin GAA supporters you will find out that the majority of them don't agree with the "hype" thats printed in many of the national rags, why is it whenever a thread is started about the Dublin GAA it turns into people giving out about the hype surrounding the team, if you don't want to read it/listen to it then change radio/tv station and buy a different paper or don't read the page

Talk of Dublin GAA sells papers and until it doesn't they will keep printing it....

Oh and on the Gilroy subject, I think he has made ALOT of dodgy decisions throughout the 2009 season but hopefully he has learned from his mistakes and I am willing to trust him for one more year and if the end product is the same at the end of 2010 I think he should bow out gracefully!!!

Frank Spencer

I would have a good deal of sympathy for Pat Gilroy. He is managing in a time where his every move is placed under intense scrutiny. Every second day there seems to be an article about the Dubs in the media. Now this is not helped by the actions of the management themselves as they have press conference after press conference about little or nothing. Maybe he might learn that less could be more in his situation. Perhaps he is trying to compensate for Pillar's lack of communication with the media.

The internet also has a large part to play especially message boards such as resdubs and hoganstand. These are a breeding ground for rumour and innuendo which have never been seen on such a scale before. Everyday more and more supporters get internet access and they then become privvy to details about what Gilory does and how he does it. Information like this would not have been accesible to all and sundry 10 years ago. It would only have passed around via word of mouth and around people that were closely involved with GAA clubs in the capital. Now it is posted for all the county, country and world to see.

People now have more ammo to fire at the likes of Gilroy and unfortunately it will only get worse from now on in.

Mullet

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't read The Herald so I wouldn't know where their journalists are from.

As for why they don't write about the Cavans or Westmeath, it's because The Herald pays them to write tripe about Dublin.

The Herald is a Dublin paper. 98FM and FM104 are Dublin radio stations and all you hear all over them all Summer is that they are following the Blue Army to Croker!

Eh there Dublin radio stations just spitting out more useless hype about dublin gaa and thee dj's would not cross the road to watch a gaa game. You really need to get out if your listening to that thrash. The same shower couldnt even acknowledge the dublin hurlers were in a leinster final last year.

The herald is a national paper i seem to see it in most news stands around the country. I Have often seen the same tripe written in regional newspapers

Kenteach

The quality, or lack thereof, of print journalism in this country should not deflect from the core arguments of the thread. Can Dublin win an All ireland with this manager? can Dublin win an All ireland with these players? I think that because the answer to the second one is no, then the answer to the first must be no too!!

Frank Spencer

Kenteach wrote: »

The quality, or lack thereof, of print journalism in this country should not deflect from the core arguments of the thread. Can Dublin win an All ireland with this manager? can Dublin win an All ireland with these players? I think that because the answer to the second one is no, then the answer to the first must be no too!!

The problem it the minute is we don't know who these players are so we'll have a better idea when we do but if I was pushed I would say no too as much as it hurts me as a Dub.

Lemlin

Mullet wrote: »

Eh there Dublin radio stations just spitting out more useless hype about dublin gaa and thee dj's would not cross the road to watch a gaa game. You really need to get out if your listening to that thrash. The same shower couldnt even acknowledge the dublin hurlers were in a leinster final last year.

The herald is a national paper i seem to see it in most news stands around the country. I Have often seen the same tripe written in regional newspapers

Are you trying to agree with my point or disagree with it? Because you have agreed with it. They are Dublin radio stations blaring out the hype so I don't see why it's blamed on the culchie media. That's my point.

I've seen The Herald stocked in Dublin and surrounding area and I doubt it has a great readership in Cork/Kerry.

Mullet

Lemlin wrote: »

Are you trying to agree with my point or disagree with it? Because you have agreed with it. They are Dublin radio stations blaring out the hype so I don't see why it's blamed on the culchie media. That's my point.

I've seen The Herald stocked in Dublin and surrounding area and I doubt it has a great readership in Cork/Kerry.

You were complaining about "dublin radio station"s hyping up dublin gaa I countered with the fact that it is all trash hype and to the extent you should get out a little and watch the odd match and stop worrying about the useless hype surrounding dublin football that is pushed to the forefront by the likes of yourself that constantly moan about such coverage. I certainly was not agreeing with you.

You are the one that brought up the reference "culchie media" They do exsist but as you say you do not read the papers. I have read articles written by journalists in hyping up dublin in dublin based newspapers but in their own provincial papers they write the opposite. Playing to the crowd i call it.

Anyway i am off to the Nell on sunday to run my eye over the latest crop of dublin hopefuls. I am sure you will be doing the same in Cavan.

tomaoo7

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No, Dublin get torn apart every year when they meet decent opposition.

Until the team stop believing their own hype and set realistic and incremental barometers of improvement they haven't a hope of learning from their mistakes which is where they are going wrong.

Dublin aren't beaten every year, they just fail to turn up etc etc.

Incognito silence is golden in your case ...

Mr. Incognito

Tom,

You've already started a troll thread in the GAA Forum.

Okay, I'll spell it out for you. Why Dublin will not win the all ireland and why England will not win the world cup.

The Dublin's team's habit of ending up in Coppers on the piss after every devalued Leinster title, and not just for the night in question but many questionable nights.

Lacking a consistent free taker who does not buckle under pressure.

A full back line that thinks it's as good as the half back line. It's not. Rotating defenders which meant Kerry came pouring through from the half back line and no-one knew what sector/ person they were supposed to be marking.

Jayo. I mean when this guy is a leader on a team you're in trouble. Hasn't even been a consistent starter in years. An alright basketball player, a non existent soccer player and a poor all round GAA player. Name one important score he has gotten since 95?

Midfield- Wheelan. Has been destroyed in every pressure encounter Dublin have had bar Tyrone, whose tactic is not to contest the jump but pressure the jumper and pick up the loose ball. Probably retired now and no one in the same league to replace him.

Dublin fans. There is a small group of core Dublin fans I meet at league games that are GAA through and through and are gentlemen. There are another group one meets on the hill that have dug out the jersey and brushed it off for the summer. They do not support the team when they are behind. They go home. Have a look at Croke Park in the second half of the Kerry game.

Dublin GAA structures- reeks of nepotism. Unless you are a division one player it is almost impossible to get selected. Kerry's captains for the last 3 years have all been from low division clubs due to the amalgamated Model for the county league. The good players on bad teams get picked.

I'm not even going into the hype factor. If you want to know where it starts watch RTE's coverage of the league final and the commentary afterwards. RTE knows where it's bread is buttered and hype Dublin without any semblence of shame.

Leaders on the field. -In short you don't have any. Bar cluxton I don't even know any dual all stars on a team that won five leinsters in a row.

Compare to Gooch, Darragh, Declan O' Sullivan for Kerry
Dooher, McMen, Kavanagh for Tyrone
Lynch, Murphy for Cork

And the last core problem is denial and self belief. Dublin have fallen at the last hurdle every year because they don't believe they can win it. I don't know if this is down to management or being on the end of a few hidings in Croke Park. The black book saga was an attempt to counter this I guess. The first step I would do as Dublin manager is isolate the group and make them martyrs in their heads- it worked for Tyrone, it worked for Kerry. When a team gets ahead of themselves you have Dublin and Cork in last years all ireland. Incredible looking back that Cork were favourites and what happened? They kicked it away with aimless wides.

I don't know what happens in the training camps but it's not working. Dublin are NOT improving and instead of burying your head in the sand as a supporter and telling me to shut up I'd be judging Gilroys reign on quite a short list.

- sorting out this rotational nonsense and get solid man markers for the back.

- getting a free taker.

- isolating the team individually from the media ALL year.

- unearthing three to five promising youngsters in the league.

-getting discipline back in hand- shambles under Caffrey- the man who ran the length of the pitch to shoulder some fella in the back off the Mayo team. Why? And what happened? Dublin lost a huge lead and buckled.

- making a realistic goal of making an All Ireland final. Not winning- getting there first.

Now,

Instead of the above we get:

We should go through the back door for matches.
Kerry/Mayo etc. were just too good on the day.
We never turned up.
It's the managers/ ref's/ selectors fault.

BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME. I for one am sick to death of it. Shut up and pull up your socks and play football and leave the black books, and midfield circles and pandering to the hill and photoshoots and celebrity appearances at home until you've actually gone out and won something.

Mullet

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jayo. I mean when this guy is a leader on a team you're in trouble. Hasn't even been a consistent starter in years. An alright basketball player, a non existent soccer player and a poor all round GAA player. Name one important score he has gotten since 95?

With respect do not slag off a player without backing it up with an argument. If you have watched him over the years like i have you will realise the guy has a footballing brain that others playing around him are totalling lacking and we lack such players like him.

Two occasions come to mind when he got dublin out of tight situations in recent times. Dublin v Wexford Leinster semi final when the game was in the balance he got a late goal. Last year against kildare he also got a very important goal.

You also had a dig at dublin supporters :rolleyes: its getting tiresome on this forum. Like 95% of gaa supporters would not cross the road to see their team play once its not a championship match. The vast majority of gaa fans are sunshine supporters. The amount of times i have sat/stood in croke park at non dubs matches listening to drunken louts abuse there team is no different to the louts that attach themselves to supporting dublin. We all have muppets in every county.

tomaoo7

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Tom,

You've already started a troll thread in the GAA Forum.

Okay, I'll spell it out for you. Why Dublin will not win the all ireland and why England will not win the world cup.

The Dublin's team's habit of ending up in Coppers on the piss after every devalued Leinster title, and not just for the night in question but many questionable nights.

Lacking a consistent free taker who does not buckle under pressure.

A full back line that thinks it's as good as the half back line. It's not. Rotating defenders which meant Kerry came pouring through from the half back line and no-one knew what sector/ person they were supposed to be marking.

Jayo. I mean when this guy is a leader on a team you're in trouble. Hasn't even been a consistent starter in years. An alright basketball player, a non existent soccer player and a poor all round GAA player. Name one important score he has gotten since 95?

Midfield- Wheelan. Has been destroyed in every pressure encounter Dublin have had bar Tyrone, whose tactic is not to contest the jump but pressure the jumper and pick up the loose ball. Probably retired now and no one in the same league to replace him.

Dublin fans. There is a small group of core Dublin fans I meet at league games that are GAA through and through and are gentlemen. There are another group one meets on the hill that have dug out the jersey and brushed it off for the summer. They do not support the team when they are behind. They go home. Have a look at Croke Park in the second half of the Kerry game.

Dublin GAA structures- reeks of nepotism. Unless you are a division one player it is almost impossible to get selected. Kerry's captains for the last 3 years have all been from low division clubs due to the amalgamated Model for the county league. The good players on bad teams get picked.

I'm not even going into the hype factor. If you want to know where it starts watch RTE's coverage of the league final and the commentary afterwards. RTE knows where it's bread is buttered and hype Dublin without any semblence of shame.

Leaders on the field. -In short you don't have any. Bar cluxton I don't even know any dual all stars on a team that won five leinsters in a row.

Compare to Gooch, Darragh, Declan O' Sullivan for Kerry
Dooher, McMen, Kavanagh for Tyrone
Lynch, Murphy for Cork

And the last core problem is denial and self belief. Dublin have fallen at the last hurdle every year because they don't believe they can win it. I don't know if this is down to management or being on the end of a few hidings in Croke Park. The black book saga was an attempt to counter this I guess. The first step I would do as Dublin manager is isolate the group and make them martyrs in their heads- it worked for Tyrone, it worked for Kerry. When a team gets ahead of themselves you have Dublin and Cork in last years all ireland. Incredible looking back that Cork were favourites and what happened? They kicked it away with aimless wides.

I don't know what happens in the training camps but it's not working. Dublin are NOT improving and instead of burying your head in the sand as a supporter and telling me to shut up I'd be judging Gilroys reign on quite a short list.

- sorting out this rotational nonsense and get solid man markers for the back.

- getting a free taker.

- isolating the team individually from the media ALL year.

- unearthing three to five promising youngsters in the league.

-getting discipline back in hand- shambles under Caffrey- the man who ran the length of the pitch to shoulder some fella in the back off the Mayo team. Why? And what happened? Dublin lost a huge lead and buckled.

- making a realistic goal of making an All Ireland final. Not winning- getting there first.

Now,

Instead of the above we get:

We should go through the back door for matches.
Kerry/Mayo etc. were just too good on the day.
We never turned up.
It's the managers/ ref's/ selectors fault.

BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME. I for one am sick to death of it. Shut up and pull up your socks and play football and leave the black books, and midfield circles and pandering to the hill and photoshoots and celebrity appearances at home until you've actually gone out and won something.

What the fok have England got to do with this thread cop on- did you copy and paste this from your anti-dublin archives

Mr. Incognito

What the fok have England got to do with this thread cop on- did you copy and paste this from your anti-dublin archives

Of all my criticisms in the post that is all you can highlight and answer? A throwaway comment that highlights a comparable overhyped team?

Wow, I think I have my answer right there.

With respect do not slag off a player without backing it up with an argument. If you have watched him over the years like i have you will realise the guy has a footballing brain that others playing around him are totalling lacking and we lack such players like him.

Two occasions come to mind when he got dublin out of tight situations in recent times. Dublin v Wexford Leinster semi final when the game was in the balance he got a late goal. Last year against kildare he also got a very important goal.

Right, okay then. Jayo had a good season last year, that's it. With due respect I don't rate those as important games and you were ahead in both instances when he scored. What has he done in any game outside Leinster, in the knock outs when a game was in the balance? He was anonymous against Kerry, twice. In fact he kicked a ball wide one on one with the keeper. He didn't even play well when you beat Tyrone because, well he was on the bench wasn't he. Mayo- nilch, nada. I can't remember him making any great passes in the likes of Kieran McDonald who regularly peppers the ball around the field. Jayo is a forward. His job is to score and create. He does neither imo. He gets the ball, puts the head down and runs into defences and falls down in the main.

If Jayo was any good he would have been snapped up by an English soccer team in the lower leagues in 96/97 when his profile was at its highest.

howiya

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If Jayo was any good he would have been snapped up by an English soccer team in the lower leagues in 96/97 when his profile was at its highest.

There you have it folks. The measure of a good football player is being signed up to play soccer for Accrington Stanley. Has the gooch played for them? :rolleyes:

Mr. Incognito

No- the measure of a good footballer is winning All Irelands. Jayo had one of the bench in 95.

Gooch has 5.

If anyone one of the three of you would like to actually address any of the criticisms leveled at why Dublin will not win the all ireland or what Golroy has to do to make it happen I'd love to hear it instead of shooting the messenger and ignoring the message as always. Lets argue the facts here instead of the usual I know we are but what are you. Na na.

tomaoo7

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Of all my criticisms in the post that is all you can highlight and answer? A throwaway comment that highlights a comparable overhyped team?

Wow, I think I have my answer right there.



Right, okay then. Jayo had a good season last year, that's it. With due respect I don't rate those as important games and you were ahead in both instances when he scored. What has he done in any game outside Leinster, in the knock outs when a game was in the balance? He was anonymous against Kerry, twice. In fact he kicked a ball wide one on one with the keeper. He didn't even play well when you beat Tyrone because, well he was on the bench wasn't he. Mayo- nilch, nada. I can't remember him making any great passes in the likes of Kieran McDonald who regularly peppers the ball around the field. Jayo is a forward. His job is to score and create. He does neither imo. He gets the ball, puts the head down and runs into defences and falls down in the main.

If Jayo was any good he would have been snapped up by an English soccer team in the lower leagues in 96/97 when his profile was at its highest.

mr incognito thank you for your responses but you seem to have the answers why we won't win an all ireland- I won't engage you in debate as you seem to have an Anti -Dublin agenda which i can'y understand from a moderator-it would be easier to reply to a WUM

Mr. Incognito

I only mod tax mate. Nothing at all to do with GAA, in which I am just a contributor the same as you.

I have no anti-Dublin agenda. It's equivalent to accusing someone of being anti semetic when they criticise Israel for sanctioned government actions.

I have outlined clearly my reasons where I feel Dublin are weak. If you would like to clearly outline any contrary views back up with points I'd welcome it.

howiya

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If Jayo was any good he would have been snapped up by an English soccer team in the lower leagues in 96/97 when his profile was at its highest.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No- the measure of a good footballer is winning All Irelands. Jayo had one of the bench in 95. Gooch has 5.

So which is it?

spongeman

Wicklow for Leinster 2010.

Put the house on it.

howiya

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have outlined clearly my reasons where I feel Dublin are weak. If you would like to clearly outline any contrary views back up with points I'd welcome it.

No you have talked about fans and hype. None of which are relevant to how strong a team is on the field.

You have talked about nepotism. Do you know what the word means?

Very little of what you posted had anything to do with football

Mr. Incognito

Instead of attacking the poster, kindly attack the post.

Can either of you point out where Dublin have any cohesion on the field?

Can any of you highlight any up and coming Dublin players that might make an impact this season?

Can any of you outline where you would like Gilroy to concentrate his efforts on the year ahead.

Can either of you do anything but pick out fluff and criticise said fluff?

I know what nepotism means, I used it in context- do you know what it means?