the explosives in the luggage incident???

silverharp

Just curious what was going on, why was the poor guy arrested? I assume the Slovac authorities rang the police here and explained the snafu. I can understand taking reaosnable precautions but the poor guy must have been scared out of mind.

Kalev

My guess is that it might be normal procedure until everything is cleared up.
I'm sure the passenger was completely in shock over the whole thing.

I wonder what would have happend if the Slovakian officials did not get in touch with Irish officials, and the passenger had received a random search upon landing in Dublin.
OR
What if the passenger's destination had been in the US?
'I have no idea how that explosive stuff got there!!'

Sure sure, that's what they all say.

TheNog

silverharp wrote: »

Just curious what was going on, why was the poor guy arrested? I assume the Slovac authorities rang the police here and explained the snafu. I can understand taking reaosnable precautions but the poor guy must have been scared out of mind.

Even though the Gardai would or may have known this man was innocent it is still necessary to do a complete and proper investigation which does involve an arrest.

I really do feel for the man. Im sure he was in absolute shock at that what happened and that must have become obvious during the investigation.

As for the Slovakian authorities, well what a total ****-up that operation was.

muppet01

Kalev wrote: »

My guess is that it might be normal procedure until everything is cleared up.
I'm sure the passenger was completely in shock over the whole thing.

I wonder what would have happend if the Slovakian officials did not get in touch with Irish officials, and the passenger had received a random search upon landing in Dublin.
OR
What if the passenger's destination had been in the US?
'I have no idea how that explosive stuff got there!!'

Sure sure, that's what they all say.

He would not been subjected to any screening as an inbound passenger with the exception of a customs check.The poor chaps biggest problem was if the explosive became unstable due to temp or other factor.
I hope he gets a good solictor....

stop

Slovak authorities now blaming Irish counterparts..
Apparently a 'telex' was sent by the pilot, before the took off, informing DAA about the explosives.
linky

DublinWriter

stop wrote: »

Slovak authorities now blaming Irish counterparts..
Apparently a 'telex' was sent by the pilot, before the took off, informing DAA about the explosives.
linky

No, the Slovak authorities only informed Servisair. Complete FUBAR of an operation.

Zambia

I heard the BBC world service on this last night they had the two sides on Air this is the slovak side

They said 2 parcels of RDX where placed in bags of Passengers as a test.

The K-9 Border Police officer in charge of the task of retrieving them found one and then was called away forgeting about the other.

He realised his mistake and informed traffic control who informed the pilot, the pilot hearing the device was inert and not able to explode took the decision to take off.

While the plane was on the ground Poprad Airport informed Dublin Airport that there would be a passenger arriving with the parcel.

As we all know nothing happened at the Dublin end.

The officer then informed his bosses who informed the Irish police who went to retrieve the expolsive. Now they had also rang the slovak man and said wait with the package till the irish police get there and give it to them.

Note this is the Slovak side

The Irish side is less concise from what I heard but I did hear that they claimed Servisair where informed not the DAA. From the outset it appears to me as if the irish side did not have as clear cut an explanation. The slovak side appears to come out warts and all the Irish side is basically "They only told servisair" . This may be more due to them interviewing the Minster for North Dublin and not a DAA official.

So actually I dont understand why the poor Slovak guy was taken into custody. The only reason the Gardai knew about the sample was from the slovak authorities. The guy could have been asked to come in for questioning later or asked to come along to make a statement. The guy suffered at the hands of the slovak police training fiasco. However the Gardai did nothing to help the guy afterwards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8441891.stm

cushtac

Zambia232 wrote: »

So actually I dont understand why the poor Slovak guy was taken into custody. The only reason the Gardai knew about the sample was from the slovak authorities. The guy could have been asked to come in for questioning later or asked to come along to make a statement. The guy suffered at the hands of the slovak police training fiasco. However the Gardai did nothing to help the guy afterwards.

Given that the Slovaks had already made a balls of things by not contacting the Gardaí directly, do you think the Gardaí should then trust them to have all of the facts correct? It was prudent to arrest him while establishing the facts. If it had been established that he had deliberately imported the stuff & was let go about his way there'd be even more of an uproar.

And what exactly do you think the Gardaí should have done for him afterwards?

Zambia

cushtac wrote: »

Given that the Slovaks had already made a balls of things by not contacting the Gardaí directly, do you think the Gardaí should then trust them to have all of the facts correct? It was prudent to arrest him while establishing the facts. If it had been established that he had deliberately imported the stuff & was let go about his way there'd be even more of an uproar.

And what exactly do you think the Gardaí should have done for him afterwards?

You see here is where we have to wait for a clear explanation of the facts. The Slovaks say the Border police contacted the Gardai well thats what I read from the full interview.

Do you think he would have refused to simply go down and give a statement?

Esel

Total snafu on the Slovak side, imo. There was absolutely no need to test the dog using luggage belonging to a passenger.

Run_to_da_hills

Could this guy have a legal case against the Slovak authorities for all the hassle he has gone through?

blubloblu

I don't see why the pilot took off, and how come there was a four day delay before it was retrieved.

Run_to_da_hills

blubloblu wrote: »

I don't see why the pilot took off, and how come there was a four day delay before it was retrieved.

If it was a Ryanair flight it wouldn't have taken off. ........"Ryanair's number one priority must always be the safety of our passengers, crew and aircraft"............ Stephen McNamara

CJhaughey

Apparently the Slovak's wanted the RDX sent back by return flight!

Snickers Man

stop wrote: »

Slovak authorities now blaming Irish counterparts..
Apparently a 'telex' was sent by the pilot, before the took off, informing DAA about the explosives.
linky

A telex??????

OK. Hands up anybody under the age of 40 who knows what the hell a telex is.

What century do these Slovaks live in?

Zambia

CJhaughey wrote: »

Apparently the Slovak's wanted the RDX sent back by return flight!

How would you send it back?

I dont see the huge issue, a mistake was made granted but no passengers where at risk at any time.

Storm in a tea cup here. However I will be interested in the report on the incident.

deadwood

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If it was a Ryanair flight it wouldn't have taken off. ........"Ryanair's number one priority must always be the safety of our passengers, crew and aircraft"............ Stephen McNamara

...and if you read the small print, there's a €15 handling fee for explosives that haven't been prebooked online.

I always bring my own explosives onto Ryanair flights. They charge, like, €20 for a measly bit of semtex on the plane. And what's the deal with those lottery tickets?

CJhaughey

Zambia232 wrote: »

How would you send it back?

I dont see the huge issue, a mistake was made granted but no passengers where at risk at any time.

Storm in a tea cup here. However I will be interested in the report on the incident.

It is a condition of international air travel that high explosives are NEVER carried in the hold of passenger air transport.
They aren't smarties you know and RDX while not explosive without primer is flammable.

Kalev

CJhaughey wrote: »

They aren't smarties you know and RDX while not explosive without primer is flammable.

Don't forget toxic as well!

who the fug

Snickers Man wrote: »

A telex??????

OK. Hands up anybody under the age of 40 who knows what the hell a telex is.

What century do these Slovaks live in?

Must have confused the hell out of the kids when that printer started working

deadwood

Snickers Man wrote: »

A telex??????

OK. Hands up anybody under the age of 40 who knows what the hell a telex is.

What century do these Slovaks live in?

Why didn't they just email the gardai?


Oh yeah.....

Ian Beale

deadwood wrote: »

Why didn't they just email the gardai?


Oh yeah.....

Sure they would have thought it was spam :pac: Nice of them to blame the Gardaí when it was their fault using a passengers bag, why not just plant a test bag in amongst passenger bags and then remove the entire bag, their handler screwed up, the pilot should never have taken off, they should have called the Gardaí themselves instead of 'informing' the pilot. Yup it's clearly all your fault lads where was that crystal ball that you were issued with?

cushtac

Zambia232 wrote: »

You see here is where we have to wait for a clear explanation of the facts. The Slovaks say the Border police contacted the Gardai well thats what I read from the full interview.

The only fact that was certain at the time was that this man was, for whatever reason, in illegal possession of explosives. With something as serious as that do you think it prudent to leave the person at liberty while everything is figured out?

Zambia232 wrote: »

Do you think he would have refused to simply go down and give a statement?

Since no one can be compelled to give a statement, why would the Gardaí leave it up to him?

Neonjack

I can't understand why they'd use real explosives in the first place. Surely they could make a dummy package that looks and smells (assuming they want to test their sniffer dogs) real.

OS119

cushtac wrote: »

The only fact that was certain at the time was that this man was, for whatever reason, in illegal possession of explosives. With something as serious as that do you think it prudent to leave the person at liberty while everything is figured out?



Since no one can be compelled to give a statement, why would the Gardaí leave it up to him?

given that the Gardai didn't have the faintest clue about the existance of the RDX until the Slovaks told them about it, where it could be found, and why it was there, the idea that the Gardai discovered anything in the course of their own investigations is laughable.

he didn't need to be arrested as it was obvious from the opening of the affair that he was an innocent - while it would certainly be prudent to search the flat to ensure that the Slovaks could actually count how much explosive they placed in his luggage, and certainly it would be helpful for the guy to make a statement (which, as you indicate, he couldn't be made to do whether he was arrested or not), its not necceasry to arrest the guy for either of these things to happen.

the facts (who, what, where and why) were known to the Gardai before they left the station and long before they arrived at this blokes door. there was no need to arrest the guy - of course, if AGS superintendants are so thick that they don't have the brain-power to determine when 'standard' policy might not neccesarily be appropriate...

OS119

OS119 wrote: »

there was no need to arrest the guy

Maybe you have some facts on this case that can show why there was no need to arrest the guy. If not then you cannot say there was no need.

Corcioch

OS119 wrote: »

given that the Gardai didn't have the faintest clue about the existance of the RDX until the Slovaks told them about it, where it could be found, and why it was there, the idea that the Gardai discovered anything in the course of their own investigations is laughable.

he didn't need to be arrested as it was obvious from the opening of the affair that he was an innocent - while it would certainly be prudent to search the flat to ensure that the Slovaks could actually count how much explosive they placed in his luggage, and certainly it would be helpful for the guy to make a statement (which, as you indicate, he couldn't be made to do whether he was arrested or not), its not necceasry to arrest the guy for either of these things to happen.

the facts (who, what, where and why) were known to the Gardai before they left the station and long before they arrived at this blokes door. there was no need to arrest the guy - of course, if AGS superintendants are so thick that they don't have the brain-power to determine when 'standard' policy might not neccesarily be appropriate...

. . . . .how do you know that the Gardai had the full facts of this case before leaving "the station" . . . do you have some info here the rest of us dont . . .???

. . . . . or are you just making assumptions and presumptions.

They were completely correct to arrest this chap imo, it was the prudent thing to do, as well as seizing the material itself and then when all and every fact had been determined the chap could be released . . .the chap was obviously arrested as part of the investigation of the entire incident.

How can anyone in Ireland be attributed blame for this incident when the Slovaks caused the explosive to be on the aircraft . . . . . and allegedly the pilot took off with the knowledge the item was in the hold??

But

Is whole thing is being blown out of proportion too . . . . . am I wrong or is the explosive not inert on its own?????? . . . . .ya it may be flammable but jesus Av Gas is extremely flammable too!!!!!!!

I'd be more worried about the explosive when it was on the ground . . .who's hands it may have fallen into!!!! . . .ya never know!!

OS119

Corcioch wrote: »

. . . . .how do you know that the Gardai had the full facts of this case before leaving "the station" . . . do you have some info here the rest of us dont . . .???

. . . . . or are you just making assumptions and presumptions.

the indicator was the bit where, in total ignorance of the RDX being in Ireland, the Gardai got a phone call from a bloke with a funny accent who said 'hi, i'm from the Slovak Security Service - i'm afraid we've fcuked up and stashed some RDX in a random blokes luggage as part of a training exercise that went a bit pear-shaped. any chance you could nip round to his gaff and grab it before he unpacks his stuff and says 'what the fcuk is this?'...

without the illuminating phone call from the slovaks letting them know about the fcuk-up the Gardai wouldn't have been in the position to arrest or not arrest anybody - and they certainly wouldn't have a fist-sized lump of RDX stashed in the Armoury waiting for an embarressed Slovak official to collect it. so yes, i am able to surmise that AGS were in possession of all the facts that mattered - who, what, where and why - before they left the station.

coz, without those facts, they wouldn't have left the station...

RDX would burn pleasently on a coalfire, but it wouldn't go pop unless you did something very specific to it - and its not something you'd do by accident.

Whitewater-AGS

OS119 wrote: »

the indicator was the bit where, in total ignorance of the RDX being in Ireland, the Gardai got a phone call from a bloke with a funny accent who said 'hi, i'm from the Slovak Security Service - i'm afraid we've fcuked up and stashed some RDX in a random blokes luggage as part of a training exercise that went a bit pear-shaped. any chance you could nip round to his gaff and grab it before he unpacks his stuff and says 'what the fcuk is this?'...

without the illuminating phone call from the slovaks letting them know about the fcuk-up the Gardai wouldn't have been in the position to arrest or not arrest anybody - and they certainly wouldn't have a fist-sized lump of RDX stashed in the Armoury waiting for an embarressed Slovak official to collect it. so yes, i am able to surmise that AGS were in possession of all the facts that mattered - who, what, where and why - before they left the station.

coz, without those facts, they wouldn't have left the station...

RDX would burn pleasently on a coalfire, but it wouldn't go pop unless you did something very specific to it - and its not something you'd do by accident.

So basically you've no clue as to the actual facts and have no idea who actually contacted the Gardai and are simply guessing!
And it was 100% correct in arresting the male who had the explosives, considering it still an offence to have it even if someone planted it on your and more to the point the Gardai will have to conduct their own investigation into the explosives reaching Ireland and guess what the passenger is a major part in that investigation and hence was he was arrested, detained and interviewed.

Ian Beale

Corcioch wrote: »

am I wrong or is the explosive not inert on its own?????? . . . . .ya it may be flammable but jesus Av Gas is extremely flammable too!!!!!!!

Half right, it's stable when kept in a certain temperature range between -4 and 70 C.

OS119 wrote: »

RDX would burn pleasently on a coalfire, but it wouldn't go pop unless you did something very specific to it - and its not something you'd do by accident.

The chemical make up of RDX makes it extremely unstable at -4 and below, as with most other common forms of explosive device, the temps have been as low as -10, why do you think the bomb squad went in and placed it in a sealed container and that buildings were evacuated, not to mention RDX is the building block for C4.

Ruen

Of course the Gardai were right to arrest the man.
The Slovaks had already made a balls of the whole operation by first leaving the explosive in the bag, then not stopping the flight to retrieve it, then they sent a "telex" to servisair rather than informing the Gardai, then days later they realised the jig was up and called the DAA who then informed the Gardai, after all that the Guards were right to get all the facts straight before letting him go.

Total conjecture now but I'd say the Slovaks were hoping Servisair could grab it before he got his bag back in Dublin and send it back to them on the sly so no officials or police in Ireland had to get involved thereby saving them all this embarrassment, didnt work out so four days in they had to come clean.