Local authority staff morale

unit 1

OK so 2009 is behind us and a bleak 2010 is upon us. As a co co worker (craftsman) I have to say morale seems to be at an all time low. Just wondering boardies opinions and thoughts.:(

Some pointers perhaps,
How much has your income dropped in 2009 v 2008 (mine 28.25%):(
Have you been asked to work for time off in lieu (how does that work in dunnes I wonder):eek:
Have management said we feel your pain as we pay pension levy too (but only that and have no overtime to loose as they are salaried):rolleyes:
Theres no money (we still have to supply the service)
We cannot pay you overtime to finish that job (if you cant do it we'll get a contractor and pay him whatever regardless of his costs ):mad:
We have no money in the budget to do that job ourselves ( the next week a contractor does it,what happened to tendering)

please no divisive public private debates as

irish_bob

unit 1 wrote: »

OK so 2009 is behind us and a bleak 2010 is upon us. As a co co worker (craftsman) I have to say morale seems to be at an all time low. Just wondering boardies opinions and thoughts.:(

Some pointers perhaps,
How much has your income dropped in 2009 v 2008 (mine 28.25%):(
Have you been asked to work for time off in lieu (how does that work in dunnes I wonder):eek:
Have management said we feel your pain as we pay pension levy too (but only that and have no overtime to loose as they are salaried):rolleyes:
Theres no money (we still have to supply the service)
We cannot pay you overtime to finish that job (if you cant do it we'll get a contractor and pay him whatever regardless of his costs ):mad:
We have no money in the budget to do that job ourselves ( the next week a contractor does it,what happened to tendering)

please no divisive public private debates as

even consultant doctors didnt see 28% drops in pay in 2009 , you need a new calculator

amacachi

irish_bob wrote: »

even consultant doctors didnt see 28% drops in pay in 2009 , you need a new calculator

Guessing overtime will be included in that.

unit 1

My calculator is exact, but here's the ballpark. Most craftsmen in 2008 worked an average 50 hrs per week, so 50 less 39 equals 11 ot hours at time plus a half equals 16.5 hours pay. (this ballpark allows for not working ot while on leave but dont forget saturdays plus occasional call-outs, note no additional allowances for call out or working late) This means that ot accounts for about 30ish% of income. These levels of overtime have been constant in all of my 13 years there so this is the norm and what was neede to manitain services I kid you not.
Now in March 2009 things go belly up and all overtime is banned which means my income in 2010 will be about 38% down on 2008 our last "normal" year as we did 3 months ot in 2009.
My question is this when salaried managers who only loose levies plus pay cuts like we also do ask you to work overtime for nothing or maybe a loose time off in lieu and you drop 28-38% whats an appropiate answer.

unit 1

Oops did I forget to mention one third less staff due to natural wastage albeit over the last two years as well so more work less jam.

irish_bob

unit 1 wrote: »

Oops did I forget to mention one third less staff due to natural wastage albeit over the last two years as well so more work less jam.

most people dont count increased work hours as a form of pay cut , most public servants may do but the majority of people dont

unit 1

I'm not saying the increased workload is a paycut, what I mean is that management expect people who are taking about 30%ish paycuts (ie working 39 hours a week instead of about 50 ) to provide the same level of service with one third less staff. If we cannot do this without overtime or by working for free or some daft time off in lieu idea then what do they do?
Here's what they do . They hire in outside contractors at twice our hourly rate ( I've seen the invoices ) and pay them whatever, no questions asked. I kid you not. The co co I work for will pay anybody anything as long as they can avoid paying their own staff overtime.
This policy now seems to be widespread and surely must be bad for staff morale in general.

AlekSmart

Unit1,if I were you i`d check out the bone fides of those contractors....look particularly at directors or principals wives maiden names or the Irish equivalent...Blood really IS thicker than water

tallaght01

irish_bob wrote: »

most people dont count increased work hours as a form of pay cut , most public servants may do but the majority of people dont

You're one antagonistic hate filled little **** aren't you.

unit 1

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unit1,if I were you i`d check out the bone fides of those contractors....look particularly at directors or principals wives maiden names or the Irish equivalent...Blood really IS thicker than water

lol thats true sure enough but at least it's easier to pump water than blood, dont know about sweat yet.:(

donkey balls

unit 1 would the mgrs not have to stay back and work over there contractual hours? when i was an ops mgr i had to stay back to get the work done and muck in.
also you say that the council wont pay you o/t but will get contracters in at twice the price i have seen this before with a company i worked for the lads o/t was banned and the work subbied out.(company reason was there o/t budget was used but the contracter one wasnt)

Firefox10

unit 1 wrote: »

OK so 2009 is behind us and a bleak 2010 is upon us. As a co co worker (craftsman) I have to say morale seems to be at an all time low. Just wondering boardies opinions and thoughts.:(

Some pointers perhaps,
How much has your income dropped in 2009 v 2008 (mine 28.25%):(

Meh....All the people I have worked with over the last year have had a 100% paycut.

lmimmfn

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're one antagonistic hate filled little **** aren't you.

he's completely right though, overtime is not considered in take home pay, go to a bank and they treat overtime completely different to salary. Its extra money on top of what you normally get if you are asked to do it because soome else is off sick or because you have to provide weekend support or whatever.

I get overtime, but i have never once considered it a guarantee, ever.

Whats the issue?

to answer the OPs question, hmm, im down about 12% i would say between 2008/2009( ex overtime of course )

Riskymove

irish_bob wrote: »

most people dont count increased work hours as a form of pay cut , most public servants may do but the majority of people dont

most public servants hey???

he isnt saying that Bob, you really need to digest the words before jumping to such remarks

he's completely right though, overtime is not considered in take home pay

he is not talking about overtime, the reference is to having to do more work as there are less staff

unit 1 would the mgrs not have to stay back and work over there contractual hours? when i was an ops mgr i had to stay back to get the work done and muck in.

I imagine they are admin managers and not craftsmen

Paulzx

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're one antagonistic hate filled little **** aren't you.

Hey. How can you read my mind?:D

Paulzx

Calculating your take home income including your overtime as a given can be risky. However, overtime is a fact of life in certain areas due to a traditional shortage of staff ( which management were happy to maintaint ) and will become more prevalent with the recruitment ban

unit 1

donkey balls wrote: »

unit 1 would the mgrs not have to stay back and work over there contractual hours? when i was an ops mgr i had to stay back to get the work done and muck in.
also you say that the council wont pay you o/t but will get contracters in at twice the price i have seen this before with a company i worked for the lads o/t was banned and the work subbied out.(company reason was there o/t budget was used but the contracter one wasnt)

HA! I've never seen a co co engineer mucking in.
Regarding your second point it sounds absurd but you and I know its true. It's probably just a way for management to batten down on what they consider might be troublesome staff, we know we cant fire you, but look we can ruin your bottom line.

unit 1

donkey balls wrote: »

unit 1 would the mgrs not have to stay back and work over there contractual hours? when i was an ops mgr i had to stay back to get the work done and muck in.
also you say that the council wont pay you o/t but will get contracters in at twice the price i have seen this before with a company i worked for the lads o/t was banned and the work subbied out.(company reason was there o/t budget was used but the contracter one wasnt)

HA! I've never seen a co co engineer mucking in.
Your second point reflects my own experience, the point being this intimidatory tactic is we know we cant fire you but we can hit your bottom line
apologies for double post (accidental)

Sleepy

If contractors are costing more than the O/T would report it to the first councellor you can get to give you a hearing. If that fails, go to the nearest TD. If that fails, go to the press with it. Think twice about it though because if there's that much O/T to go around the cheapest solution is probably to hire in some extra workers which won't help your bottom line any.

It's a recession OP. Everyone's hurting. Those fortunate few with cosy relationships to the government aren't hurting half as much as the rest of us but there are far, far worse off than you in relation to how much of the pain they're having to carry.

unit 1

Firefox10 wrote: »

Meh....All the people I have worked with over the last year have had a 100% paycut.

Comiserations if you have become unemployed firefox I'm guessing (been there done that got the t shirt and emigrated myself) and I know it's little comfort, but higher general unemployment does not mean we need less nurses teachers or water supplies. On the other hand sensible cost effective savings do make sense not cutting welfare to people who worked for years and are just hit when they most need it.

irish_bob

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're one antagonistic hate filled little **** aren't you.

a completley over the top and unwarranted reaction

irish_bob

unit 1 wrote: »

Comiserations if you have become unemployed firefox I'm guessing (been there done that got the t shirt and emigrated myself) and I know it's little comfort, but higher general unemployment does not mean we need less nurses teachers or water supplies. On the other hand sensible cost effective savings do make sense not cutting welfare to people who worked for years and are just hit when they most need it.

we dont need more nurses , we are in fact over nursed in this country

Paulzx

irish_bob wrote: »

we dont need more nurses , we are in fact over nursed in this country

Go on Bob say it. You know you want to!!!!



ok. i'll say it for you seeing as you're shy



sacred cows!!!!!!!!!

FlutterinBantam

unit 1 wrote: »

OK so 2009 is behind us and a bleak 2010 is upon us. As a co co worker (craftsman) I have to say morale seems to be at an all time low. Just wondering boardies opinions and thoughts.:(

Some pointers perhaps,
How much has your income dropped in 2009 v 2008 (mine 28.25%):(
Have you been asked to work for time off in lieu (how does that work in dunnes I wonder):eek:
Have management said we feel your pain as we pay pension levy too (but only that and have no overtime to loose as they are salaried):rolleyes:
Theres no money (we still have to supply the service)
We cannot pay you overtime to finish that job (if you cant do it we'll get a contractor and pay him whatever regardless of his costs ):mad:
We have no money in the budget to do that job ourselves ( the next week a contractor does it,what happened to tendering)

please no divisive public private debates as

Buddy if you, with a cast iron job and pension, are expecting anyone here to feel sorry for you.... pull the other one.;)

PLIIM

irish_bob wrote: »

a completley over the top and unwarranted reaction

But he speaks the truth

PoleStar

lmimmfn wrote: »

he's completely right though, overtime is not considered in take home pay, go to a bank and they treat overtime completely different to salary. Its extra money on top of what you normally get if you are asked to do it because soome else is off sick or because you have to provide weekend support or whatever.

You are obviously not a public sector worker so I will forgive your ignorance. There are certain professions in the public sector that have rosetered overtime, including many porters, tradesmen, and doctors. It is done every week.

These extra hours are required to get the work done and provide a 24/7 service. They are not extra hours to fill sick leave or occasional weekend work.
Frequently these grades have their basic salaries relatively undervalued but on the expectation of routin overtime.

Thus if you have been working and getting the same pay for years and now its cut, whether its overtime or basic pay or whatever, its still a cut.

And by the way, if you do routine rostered overtime, the bank will consider it. I myself got a mortgage which was based on total income, not my basic as overtime worked is regular.


Im sure that has cleared up what im sure was just a simple lack of knowledge.

The_Honeybadger

I had to change jobs because I got laid off from my original one. My income is down 40% and my original job came with a company car also so in actual fact I am even worse off. I have adjusted pretty well though, luckily I have no mortgage and a good whack of savings to help. My new job is one i would have considered beneath me a few years ago but I must say I have had a new lease of life, less stress and a far more enjoyable working environment. I cant go on hols any more and have to watch what I spend in general but I would have to think long and hard if I was offered my old job back. I suppose it would be different if I had big financial commitments.

unit 1

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Buddy if you, with a cast iron job and pension, are expecting anyone here to feel sorry for you.... pull the other one.;)

If you have a job to go to everyday public or private, a paycut is a paycut. Somehow saying a pension which I will get maybe in 20 years is relevant misses the point, I'm talkint about the present. It's a bit like saying I have no sympathy for private sector workers because when we turn this corner they will be happy out again.
This is why morale is low, we too feel threatened, by income reductions, pay cuts (take your pick), threats to out conditions, public vilification by the media, and a creeping sense that that this government will gut us again the first chance it gets now that it has the general public turned against us.

unit 1

PoleStar wrote: »

You are obviously not a public sector worker so I will forgive your ignorance. There are certain professions in the public sector that have rosetered overtime, including many porters, tradesmen, and doctors. It is done every week.

These extra hours are required to get the work done and provide a 24/7 service. They are not extra hours to fill sick leave or occasional weekend work.
Frequently these grades have their basic salaries relatively undervalued but on the expectation of routin overtime.

Thus if you have been working and getting the same pay for years and now its cut, whether its overtime or basic pay or whatever, its still a cut.

And by the way, if you do routine rostered overtime, the bank will consider it. I myself got a mortgage which was based on total income, not my basic as overtime worked is regular.


Im sure that has cleared up what im sure was just a simple lack of knowledge.

Correct Pole star,in many sectors overtime is systemic (like anglo) and endemic but only for the grunts at the bottom.
When cuts come they suffer cuts disproportionally to higher salaried levels by losing more of their income.
Q. Which is a paycut?
1 losing overtime or
2 a cut to bacic pay
A Both I would say, but is falling overtime,bonuses and allowances(in the private sector), a pay cut, the same thing or a good reason for reductions in public sector pay rates also a pay cut.

FlutterinBantam

unit 1 wrote: »

If you have a job to go to everyday public or private, a paycut is a paycut. Somehow saying a pension which I will get maybe in 20 years is relevant misses the point, I'm talkint about the present. It's a bit like saying I have no sympathy for private sector workers because when we turn this corner they will be happy out again.
This is why morale is low, we too feel threatened, by income reductions, pay cuts (take your pick), threats to out conditions, public vilification by the media, and a creeping sense that that this government will gut us again the first chance it gets now that it has the general public turned against us.

Ask yourself, why do you feel threatened?

Ask the poor fcuker who has lost his job and now has to worry about supporting his family and pay a mortgage.??

I can appreciate how certain reductions in income can affect people, but how in fcuks name can someone with a cast iron job, pension which most would kill for feel threatened.???

Pull the other one sunshine.

demons

regarding the point the op made abou the work they do being done by subcontractors, maybe its because the co co workers would not exactly be known for being the most efficient at getting works done, remember being on a site a few years ago where we were tying in a new 600 mm wmain to the existing one and could not believe the amount of staff from DCC required to do the work, from drivers to get the trades to the job, fitters to make up fittings, plumbers to do there bit and best of all a carpenter to cut pieces of timber to set up the pipes on and of course a plethora of supervisers to oversee. twas about 3-4 years ago and it was on a sunday guess the boys got a nice little packet for that.

Truth is anyone employed in such fields as building/constrcution/civil engineering & there equivalents on the local authority side has taken a finiancial hammering in the past 12-18 months. my own wages have been dropped by 40% but that just the way it is.

unit 1

demons wrote: »

regarding the point the op made abou the work they do being done by subcontractors, maybe its because the co co workers would not exactly be known for being the most efficient at getting works done, remember being on a site a few years ago where we were tying in a new 600 mm wmain to the existing one and could not believe the amount of staff from DCC required to do the work, from drivers to get the trades to the job, fitters to make up fittings, plumbers to do there bit and best of all a carpenter to cut pieces of timber to set up the pipes on and of course a plethora of supervisers to oversee. twas about 3-4 years ago and it was on a sunday guess the boys got a nice little packet for that.

Truth is anyone employed in such fields as building/constrcution/civil engineering & there equivalents on the local authority side has taken a finiancial hammering in the past 12-18 months. my own wages have been dropped by 40% but that just the way it is.

I take your point, but from my experience on large building sites your observations are not unique to co co workers although more likely in general. A recent trip to corrib gas field opened my eyes to waste I thought I would only ever see on some of the largest sites I worked on in London. Why do people complain about "idle overstaffed" council workers when they see them and ignore wanton waste that occurs daily in shops and factories,(which we pay for in their prices) because they cannot see it. A recent example. On the day of the public sector strike all the media did was look North and moaned. They did'nt even look south to see all the workers doing their bit with the flooding and all.
Bottom line from media public bad private good.
Reality somewhere in the middle.

lmimmfn

PoleStar wrote: »

You are obviously not a public sector worker so I will forgive your ignorance. There are certain professions in the public sector that have rosetered overtime, including many porters, tradesmen, and doctors. It is done every week.

These extra hours are required to get the work done and provide a 24/7 service. They are not extra hours to fill sick leave or occasional weekend work.
Frequently these grades have their basic salaries relatively undervalued but on the expectation of routin overtime.

Thus if you have been working and getting the same pay for years and now its cut, whether its overtime or basic pay or whatever, its still a cut.

And by the way, if you do routine rostered overtime, the bank will consider it. I myself got a mortgage which was based on total income, not my basic as overtime worked is regular.


Im sure that has cleared up what im sure was just a simple lack of knowledge.

no im private sector, however my wife is public sector.

Routine rostered overtime should be completely removed in both the public and private sector, not only does it cost more, but it also keeps jobs from others which would cost a lot less( at least 33% less ).

If its in the persons contract that they are absolutely guaranteed X amount of overtime then thats fair enough, otherwise it is not and should never be considered a guarantee.

Banks currently do not consider overtime a guarantee, however as you say they did in the past, but hey they were throwing money at people then.

Welease

lmimmfn wrote: »

Routine rostered overtime should be completely removed in both the public and private sector, not only does it cost more, but it also keeps jobs from others which would cost a lot less( at least 33% less ).

For what it's worth, that is not necessarily true. It can work out a lot cheaper to actually pay overtime to employees (obviously depending on the situation).

Each new employee has non-salary associated costs like insurances, benefits, office space and equipment, training, hiring, management etc etc etc..

Some of those costs can be huge.. binmen for example.. if you hire more, you need more trucks for them.. otherwise you just end up paying shift allowances (along with all the extra costs previously mentioned)

Sometimes one of the cheaper costs associated with an employee is salary.

ninty9er

unit 1 wrote: »

Have you been asked to work for time off in lieu (how does that work in dunnes I wonder):eek:

Quite well, as it does in an organisation in close proximity to where I work, where there is no money to pay staff above a 20 hour week, so one is accumulating 15 hours time-in lieu a week. It'll work out fine at slack time when she wants to go on a long holiday.

donkey balls wrote: »

also you say that the council wont pay you o/t but will get contracters in at twice the price i have seen this before with a company i worked for the lads o/t was banned and the work subbied out.(company reason was there o/t budget was used but the contracter one wasnt)

Contractors get a set job fee. If it takes longer, the company takes the hit on overtime, not the council. I personally see no reason why all road works shouldn't be contracted.

LoLth

irish_bob wrote: »

most people dont count increased work hours as a form of pay cut , most public servants may do but the majority of people dont

thats funny because when I worked as server support (private sector) and got moved from a 8 hour night shift with two people to a ten hour night shift with just one person and no increase in salary or any introduction of shift allowance or any change in the salary I received while working the day shift with three other techies, I pretty much saw that as a pay cut.... it was actually the driving factor behind my leaving to persue other options.

Increased work hours for the same salary (not hourly rate) is tantamount to a paycut at the end of the day in my opinion.

bamboozle

unit 1 wrote: »

OK so 2009 is behind us and a bleak 2010 is upon us. As a co co worker (craftsman) I have to say morale seems to be at an all time low. Just wondering boardies opinions and thoughts.:(

Some pointers perhaps,
How much has your income dropped in 2009 v 2008 (mine 28.25%):(
Have you been asked to work for time off in lieu (how does that work in dunnes I wonder):eek:
Have management said we feel your pain as we pay pension levy too (but only that and have no overtime to loose as they are salaried):rolleyes:
Theres no money (we still have to supply the service)
We cannot pay you overtime to finish that job (if you cant do it we'll get a contractor and pay him whatever regardless of his costs ):mad:
We have no money in the budget to do that job ourselves ( the next week a contractor does it,what happened to tendering)

please no divisive public private debates as

simple solution, if you are not happy with the pay you receive for your job, quit!

P. Breathnach

bamboozle wrote: »

simple solution, if you are not happy with the pay you receive for your job, quit!

That's not a simple solution: it's a cheap shot.

unit 1

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's not a simple solution: it's a cheap shot.

Correct, this thread is about low staff morale and the many various reasons behind it, which across the hugh variety of employees in the public sector will be equally as varied.

unit 1

.

Increased work hours for the same salary (not hourly rate) is tantamount to a paycut at the end of the day in my opinion.[/quote]

CORRECT

ninty9er

unit 1 wrote: »

.

Increased work hours for the same salary (not hourly rate) is tantamount to a paycut at the end of the day in my opinion.

CORRECT

INCORRECT:rolleyes:
If you receive the same basic salary at the end of a month, then you have neither received an increase nor suffered a reduction in pay. There are managers all over the public sector on salaries that never see overtime that were out at 3 and 4 in the morning and on weekends assessing flood threats to their building stock, they have not suffered a pay cut because they worked 60 hours extra over those 15 days, they were doing their job!

irish_bob

LoLth wrote: »

thats funny because when I worked as server support (private sector) and got moved from a 8 hour night shift with two people to a ten hour night shift with just one person and no increase in salary or any introduction of shift allowance or any change in the salary I received while working the day shift with three other techies, I pretty much saw that as a pay cut.... it was actually the driving factor behind my leaving to persue other options.

Increased work hours for the same salary (not hourly rate) is tantamount to a paycut at the end of the day in my opinion.

not during a time of rescession , its isnt , not in my book anyway

katkin

If it costs more out of overall budget to hire in contractors to complete work than to pay o/t to workers than I would do as was suggested by Sleepy, get on to councillors, media etc. The o/t, recruitment ban will cause problems like this.

On another point though, the idea of guaranteed or rostered overtime is ridiculous and has been milked by workers in the past. My moral was pretty low when like the OP working for the co co I experienced arrival of new worker who was transferred from another building getting paid 8 hours overtime, which had been agreed with unions - there was no overtime required where we were, but he paid for it all the same, marked on his payslip too. Nice work if you can get it. No wondered the country's buggered.

unit 1

katkin wrote: »

. My moral was pretty low when like the OP working for the co co I experienced arrival of new worker who was transferred from another building getting paid 8 hours overtime, which had been agreed with unions - there was no overtime required where we were, but he paid for it all the same, marked on his payslip too. Nice work if you can get it. No wondered the country's buggered.

This is exactly my point. Low staff morale is caused by much more than money alone. Your point above shows a typical example of the kind of thing that causes it. Especially in this climate the following traits seems much more prevalent. Nepotism, favouritism,brown nosing,people doing work they once would'nt do in a fit, people working in places they don't belong, oh and don't forget the guys that hog all available ot and perks to the detriment of their colleagues.:mad:

MysticalRain

Your morale would be a lot lower if you were on the dole.

parsi

ninty9er wrote: »

INCORRECT:rolleyes:
If you receive the same basic salary at the end of a month, then you have neither received an increase nor suffered a reduction in pay. There are managers all over the public sector on salaries that never see overtime that were out at 3 and 4 in the morning and on weekends assessing flood threats to their building stock, they have not suffered a pay cut because they worked 60 hours extra over those 15 days, they were doing their job!

Unlike your party colleagues at the moment ? Where's Noel ?

ninty9er

parsi wrote: »

Unlike your party colleagues at the moment ? Where's Noel ?

He's apparently on holidays. Employment legislation requires they be granted to him. Of course he could be doing his job, because I'm unaware of anything he could be doing that would be catching headlines. After all he is Minister for Transport, not Minister for Weather and Winter Moaners.

parsi

Apologies - I forgot that the Dail still has 3 weeks left of their Christmas Holidays.

Meanwhile the Minister for Road Safety is nowhere to be found....

unit 1

Just got my first post paycut paycheque.:(
How's morale now I wonder.

Japer

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I can appreciate how certain reductions in income can affect people, but how in fcuks name can someone with a cast iron job, pension which most would kill for feel threatened.???

Pull the other one sunshine.

+1. Many many people I know would love to have only the problems of the co. co. worker. Lucky are the co. co. workers with their guaranteed salary, holiday, sick pay, and pension many would literally give an arm for. Worried about morale ! lol. The o.p. could leave the co. co. job and become self employed ; nobody is insisting he / she stays in the co. co. job.

PLIIM

Japer wrote: »

+1. Many many people I know would love to have only the problems of the co. co. worker. Lucky are the co. co. workers with their guaranteed salary, holiday, sick pay, and pension many would literally give an arm for. Worried about morale ! lol. The o.p. could leave the co. co. job and become self employed ; nobody is insisting he / she stays in the co. co. job.

Im sick of hearing private sector workers gripe about the benefits a public sector worker gets.
I do quite well in the private sector myself because i chose the career path i am on. I made sure i was at the top of my game. And i make sure i change companies every 2 - 3 years as its the only way to make sure you increase your worth all the time. Compare anyone in a company for 4 or 5 years to someone who moves and see the difference in salary increases.
If you cant move company, you're not good enough and are better off staying put, or else put some work into your career.

Public sector workers chose what path they wanted and that career path came with certain benefits. So dont complain about them - deal with your own career.

If you are good enough at your job you can also negotiate pension, VHI, extra holiday days and sick pay.