Marathon Training v2.0

Gringo78

So, 2010, time to start a new log and start training for my 2nd marathon attempt.

Just under 14 weeks to go until the Connemarathon so this log will record my training for my second marathon. Ran last years Cork Marathon in 3:26 off very inadequate marathon training so the aim will be to significantly improve on the time, get a bit more marathon experience and set me up for a sub 3 marathon attempt by end of 2010, probably in Dublin.

2009 was a good year, reduced my 5 mile time from 32:39 to 29:38 and 5km time from 19:54 to 17:56 and ran my first marathon. I didn't keep the training volume up as much as I wanted over the Nov/Dec period but I am still in good shape to start into marathon training.

Main problem with last years marathon training was no structure, I didn't understand the science behind the training and pretty much ran aimless junk miles with no great strategy. After the marathon, I went by a half marathon training program built around 1 longrun, 1 interval session and 1 tempo session per week and greatly improved my shorter distance times while gaining an understanding of my strengths, weaknesses and limitations. Due to family/work committments, I'll still not have a rigid plan this time around but rather try to ensure I acheive the following each week:

Tempo session - 6 miles. Presently at 6:20 pace. Will also do 1 in 3 sessions of 4 miles @ 6:10 pace. Will try to very gradually increase these over the next 12 weeks, I was running tempos of 6 miles @ 6:12 pace back in september but have fallen back since then.
Interval Session - Will stick to longer intervals as tend to get injured when I run too fast. So 1km, 1mile and 2km repeats, typically 5 reps, half the interval recovery, 5km to 10km pace.
LSR - will build this up to 24 miles, find it hard to get the time to do these so if time constraints allow only 16-18 miles on a particular weekend, will do some PMP miles as part, but will keep the long runs long and slow
PMP runs - will try to get some in during the week, seperate to long run, e.g 10-12miles @PMP, will not start these for a few weeks as want to reintroduce the intervals to my training first.

I've also started to run my recovery runs much slower and find this much more beneficial in keeping me injury free, so running 8min miles recovery rather than before I would have run 7:30 pace. Find it makes a big difference.

On my easy runs I usually run some hills and will include one session of hill sprints per fortnight as part of an easy run.

I found from my last marathon training that 2 weeks taper is sufficient for me so it'll be just under 12 weeks of hard training from now.

I managed to average 32mpw during last marathon training period, 30mpw then Jul/Aug/Sep and average has dropped down to only 20mpw over nov/dec so will need to up that again. Will aim for 50mpw but not sure I'll be able to get that. Now if I could get a treadmill into the house we'd be talking 70mpw easy so thats something I'm looking into at the moment.

Time Target - I've heard theres a big hill in connemara somewhere near the end so will not be attempting sub 3 but will aim for 3:05-3:10 which is an ambitious target for Connemara but a time I think I can run if training goes smoothly. Mallow 10 on Sunday (if it goes ahead) will tell me where I'm at a the moment (Target 63:xx. Ran 68:xx last year). I'll base my time target on the Mallow time rather than my Ballycotton 10 time (which is 3 weeks before the marathon) but running a good 10mile in Ballycotton 10 is also a big target for me.

I'll be watching my weight during training. Presently 75kg and would like to get this down to 72kg for the marathon. Was 78kg for the marathon last year so good that I'm already 3kg better off than at the end of training in June but would like to get this down more.

So starts Marathon Training v2.0 - I feel I know a lot more about my running than 12 months ago and one thing I have definetly learned from my own experiences and from reading other peoples marathon accounts - the marathon is not an animal easily tamed and has a propensity to bite you hard. But the rewards are great.

Seres

hope 2010 training goes well , any new years resolutions ?

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

I have definetly learned from my own experiences and from reading other peoples marathon accounts - the marathon is not an animal easily tamed and has a propensity to bite you hard. But the rewards are great.

Oh Yeah....Been there.

Good luck with the training Gringo...i will be following your log.
Our times are roughly the same for the shorter distances.

tisnotover

this log is def bookmarked...all the best with the training and goals ahead lad!

asimonov

Good luck with the log gringo - our paces / times are very similar. a 3:05 finish in connemara will get you a very good finishing position. all the best.

Gringo78

Seres wrote: »

hope 2010 training goes well , any new years resolutions ?

Only the demon drink.....no longer on the menu

Gringo78

asimonov wrote: »

a 3:05 finish in connemara will get you a very good finishing position. all the best.

I'm not too pushed on the time....i selected Connemara as my next marathon rather than a flat one so as not to put pressure on myself over the time...main aim is to get decent training done and progress my times.

theboyblunder

looking forward to reding this - good luck with the log and the training!

Abhainn

Good luck Gringo78 in your quest.
From your plan you seem to be aiming for busy weeks with 1 Interval, 1 Tempo, 1 @ PMP & 1 LSR with hills :eek:.
That is very challenging and may lead to injury or overtraining.
I would include the tempo or interval sessions on alterative weeks i.e. only do one tempo or interval session per week.
And the week after a race don't do any really hard stuff for the next 4 / 5 days.

Finally introduce a step back week after 3 hard weeks. I always try and incorporate a step back week in the lead up to a race. It works for me.

heffsarmy

Good luck gringo with the training, I done the half in Connemarathon last year great atmosphere.

Gringo78

Abhainn wrote: »

From your plan you seem to be aiming for busy weeks with 1 Interval, 1 Tempo, 1 @ PMP & 1 LSR with hills :eek:.
That is very challenging and may lead to injury or overtraining.
I would include the tempo or interval sessions on alterative weeks i.e. only do one tempo or interval session per week.
And the week after a race don't do any really hard stuff for the next 4 / 5 days.

Finally introduce a step back week after 3 hard weeks. I always try and incorporate a step back week in the lead up to a race. It works for me.

Cheers for the advice....I'll only introduce the PMP runs if I'm going well at the intervals as I've found in the past the intervals have been the ones to get me injured. The hills I do are very 'easy' sessions - 4 or 5 runs 300m up an 18% incline hill at about 6:30 pace, the whole hills part takes only about 6min including the jogs back down the hill as part of 2 mile warmup, 2 mile cooldown run so its not so tough a session. I normally run up that 18% hill as part of most easy runs but at about 8:00 pace. However I'll introduce all these elements 1 by 1 to avoid injury. I'm hoping I actually have the time to introduce the PMP runs as I really would rather do them seperately to the LSR.

Gringo78

Summary of week so far:

Sunday - 8.8 miles easy at avg pace 7:16

Monday - 6.6 miles with 4.7 straight @ tempo. Avg tempo pace 6:18. Had intended to do 5 but Christmas had taken its toll and am ashamed to say I quit with only a quarter mile to go. Pace was consistent though, I hadn't fallen off when I quit.

Tuesday - 4 miles recovery at avg pace 7:59

Wednesday - First Interval session since Oct (that time I did 6x1km at avg pace 5:55 per rep). Today I had intended to do 5x1km at 6:00 pace per rep. Did 6:05, 6:05, 6:05, 6:10, 6:10. Pushed too hard on the 3rd rep which was into a strong wind and uphill and paid for it on the last 2 reps which I found very tough. Happy overall though as its been 3 months since I attempted a pace that quick.

heffsarmy

Good session Gringo, do you warm up and cooldown for these, also how long do you rest between intervals.

Gringo78

heffsarmy wrote: »

Good session Gringo, do you warm up and cooldown for these, also how long do you rest between intervals.

today warmed up for 1 mile only. try to warm up for 2 miles if time allows. recovery is half the rep time so today was 1:53 at 8:00 pace. 1 mile cooldown.

heffsarmy

Gringo would you not give yourself more time to recover fully, do each rep as fresh as the first one. Give yourself at least 3 to 4 minutes and over time reduce the recovery time as you get fitter.

Gringo78

heffsarmy wrote: »

Gringo would you not give yourself more time to recover fully, do each rep as fresh as the first one. Give yourself at least 3 to 4 minutes and over time reduce the recovery time as you get fitter.

was thinking actually of recovering to a heart rate after each rep.

Gringo78

Jan 7th

3.9 miles recovery at avg pace 7:55, avg HR 142.

Unfortunately Mallow 10 off on Sunday so hopefully will be able to do Dungarvan 10 on Jan 31st. Disappointed Mallow is off but will be in better condition for Dungarvan so can really give it socks. May well get my first LSR in this weekend also now.

Gringo78

Reading Village Runners log and the pushups challenge from MCOS caught my eye so going to try that in the mornings and see how I go. 24 for my first effort which shows I suppose I'm a bit lacking in the upper body. Will try it most mornings and try to get some improvement.

Sosa

I'm going to give that ago myself starting Monday.
I dont think i will do 24 in my first go,lucky to get near 20.
Push-ups are not my thing.

Gringo78

Jan 10th

6.4 miles in the snow on grass at 8:00 pace. Was lovely running in the snow apart from being a target for kids to throw snowballs at. Was doing 0.5mile laps in the estate which was a bit monotonous though.

No run today as car trouble meant I was late into work.

After the first attempt of 24 pushups on sat, did 26 on Sunday and then 30 this morning....this mornings felt a lot easier so I can see myself progressing at this slowly but surely...really feel it in the core aswell from the pushups which is good.

26 miles last week which is my biggest weekly mileage in 5 weeks so start building this back up now.

Gringo78

Jan 12th

Total 5.2 miles at average pace 6:51 with 4 miles at tempo, avg tempo pace 6:30. Was supposed to be 6 miles at tempo but hit an ice patch and went flying...luckily ony a few minor cuts n bruises and no damage done but knocked the wind out of me and made my way back gingerly after that.

Twas brutal conditions for a run today...gale force gusts brought me almost to a standstill on a couple of occasions...I reckon I was making no forward progress into some of the gusts. Windy conditions are cr*p for a tempo, very hard to judge the pace with the wind and against the wind and my HR strap is on the blip also...think it needs a new battery.

31 pushups this morning...an increase of just 1 but an increase none the less.

Gringo78

Jan 13th

5 miles recovery at avg pace 7:45, avg HRR 71%

32 pushups this morning...getting really tough each morning now to beat the previous mornings effort. I'll do it once more tomorrow morning and then give it a rest until monday morning to let my arms recover!

Gringo78

Jan 14th

Skipped the pushups this morning cos after 5 days of it my arms were tired and aching.

Interval session today. Plan was 4 x 1mile reps @ 6:00 pace. I planned to recover longer than my usual half the rep time by waiting for my heart rate to come back down but HR monitor seems to be almost dead battery wise (anyone know where to get a replacement battery for Forerunner 305 HR monitor? Is it a stnadard type battery you could get in a jewellers?). So in the absence of heart rate, decided to do the recovery by feel and try to recover reasonably fully before each rep.

Rep 1: 5:59 then 3min recovery
Rep 2: 6:01 then 4min recovery
Rep 3: 6:01 then 5min recovery
Rep 4: 0.7 miles @ 6:00 pace then gave up.

Recovery each time was a jog at 8-9min/ml pace.

Rep 4 I was losing form after half a mile and my willpower caved and I packed it in even though I hadn't dropped off the pace. Must be easier to do these reps with a group rather than on your own!

Happy with the session though as I felt comfortable running at 6:00 pace.

Total 6.3 miles @ avg pace 7:05

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Rep 4 I was losing form after half a mile and my willpower caved and I packed it in even though I hadn't dropped off the pace. Must be easier to do these reps with a group rather than on your own!

Happy with the session though as I felt comfortable running at 6:00 pace.

nice going lad. def would be easier in a group as you kinda get pulled along with the pace. good idea about leaving the recoveries go till you feel ready and giving it a good go at the 6min pace then.

Gringo78

Jan 15th

5 miles 'recovery' at avg pace 8 min/ml pace. In reality run was a bit tougher than the pace suggests as I was pushing a buggy and it ain't easy pushing it into the wind. I was running 7:30 miles with the end very very easy but then found it very tough going running 8:30 miles back into the wind.

Gringo78

Jan 16th

16 miles LSR at average pace 7:49. Finished with a tough mile uphill avg 5% grade and kept the pace without problem so very happy with todays run.

Gringo78

Total 37.6miles last week which is my second highest weeks mileage since last April. Need to be careful not to up the weekly mileage too fast but I do want to get to 50mpw soon.

Got a tempo, Interval and a 16 mile LSR in so a good training week. If I could get an 18 miler in this weekend I'd be happy and could start to introduce the PMP runs after the Dungarvan 10 miler then and get up to 20 miles on the LSR.

Gringo78

Jan 18th

5.5 miles, easy, hilly, at avg pace 7:38. caught a vomiting bug yesterday so was a bit low on energy and took things nice and easy today. Hopefully be ok to do a tempo tomorrow.

Gringo78

Jan 19th

7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:32 w/ 6 straight @ avg pace 6:19. Aim was 6 @ 6:20, twas very windy today which makes pacing the tempo tough as you have to be a little slower into the wind and a little faster with the wind. Tempo splits were 6:24, 6:24, 6:25, 6:14, 6:13, 6:13. Felt very strong today though, especially in the legs, would have been happy to run a 10 mile race at that pace. Will do another tempo next Monday and see where I am pace wise then for Dungarvan, somewhere 6:15 to 6:20.

tisnotover

looking very good for Dungarvan lad after that tempo run, that puts ya pushing sub 63mins!

Racing Flat

Gringo78 wrote: »

Rep 4 I was losing form after half a mile and my willpower caved and I packed it in even though I hadn't dropped off the pace. Must be easier to do these reps with a group rather than on your own!

I wonder are you struggling a bit with these intervals because you're doing them 2 days after a tempo - maybe an extra day in between would help. I say that because if you are doing 6m tempo runs at 6.18 pace, you should not struggle with 4 x 1mile at 6.00 pace with relatively long recoveries (e.g. a few weeks ago I did 5.5m at 6.18 pace and 3 days later 5 x 1m with 90secs recovery in 5.53, 5.59, 5.59, 6.22, 6.11 last two were uphill, but I was also wrecked, probably wouldn't have gone much better on flat).

In relation to the recovery, it all depends on the relative pace and the volume. Why are you doing them at 6.00 pace? Does this equate to a particular race pace? For my last marathon I made the mistake of trying to do fast intervals - did 4 x 1mile at 5.40/mile with 4min recoveries. If I was doing it again, I'd do more reps, do them more slowly and take much less recovery - a much more specific session to the race in question. Saying that, if I was doing a martathon again I'd be focusing on the big workouts as described by tergat on here, e.g. intervals of 4 x 3miles at marathon pace etc.; clearly much slower but also much greater volume.

Best of luck with it anyway.

Gringo78

Racing Flat wrote: »

I wonder are you struggling a bit with these intervals because you're doing them 2 days after a tempo - maybe an extra day in between would help. I say that because if you are doing 6m tempo runs at 6.18 pace, you should not struggle with 4 x 1mile at 6.00 pace with relatively long recoveries (e.g. a few weeks ago I did 5.5m at 6.18 pace and 3 days later 5 x 1m with 90secs recovery in 5.53, 5.59, 5.59, 6.22, 6.11 last two were uphill, but I was also wrecked, probably wouldn't have gone much better on flat).

In relation to the recovery, it all depends on the relative pace and the volume. Why are you doing them at 6.00 pace? Does this equate to a particular race pace? For my last marathon I made the mistake of trying to do fast intervals - did 4 x 1mile at 5.40/mile with 4min recoveries. If I was doing it again, I'd do more reps, do them more slowly and take much less recovery - a much more specific session to the race in question. Saying that, if I was doing a martathon again I'd be focusing on the big workouts as described by tergat on here, e.g. intervals of 4 x 3miles at marathon pace etc.; clearly much slower but also much greater volume.

Best of luck with it anyway.

Probably struggling with the Intervals for 2 reasons:

1. only 1 days rest between tempo and interval. I hoped to correct this by doing tempo on Monday but unfortunately got sick on sunday so was very low on energy yesterday so couldn't do tempo as I had planned. I think though I should be able to handle this 1 day gap.

2. Have only reintroduced intervals 2 weeks ago after a break of about 3 months. I also did no races since september so I think my running economy at those paces has slipped a bit but I expect it to come back fast, as it usually does.

As regards pace...my last interval session back in october was 6x1km @ 5:50 with 110sec recovery which I managed, so I choose 6:00 as I thought I was being conservative by being 10sec slower than I had been....turns out I was being a bit over optimistic.

I think you're right though, longer intervals are more beneficial for marathon training, so I might drop the 1km intervals for 2 mile intervals so rotate between 1mile, 2km and 2 mile intervals. I wil repeat the 1 mile intervals thursday but imagine I'll be a lot more comfortable at 6:00 pace than last week.

4x3mile workout....I'd love to have the time to do it, but mon to fri I have maximum 50min to train so I'm very restricted. At the weekend I do the LSR so wouldn't be able to also do a big session. Maybe circumstances will change as I would like to get a longer session in sometime mon to fri and would certainly go for one of tergats big sessions.

Gringo78

Jan 20th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly @ avg pace 7:48. Avg HR?? Need to get a battery for the heart rate monitor before Dungarvan, I'm a sucker for the ol stats and feel lost not knowing my heart rate....really want it for the post race analysis.

village runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

Jan 20th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly @ avg pace 7:48. Avg HR?? Need to get a battery for the heart rate monitor before Dungarvan, I'm a sucker for the ol stats and feel lost not knowing my heart rate....really want it for the post race analysis.

What is your target time in Dungarvan ??
I also found a session tuesday and thursday didnt work for me. Its works tuesday and friday for me.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

What is your target time in Dungarvan ??
I also found a session tuesday and thursday didnt work for me. Its works tuesday and friday for me.

I'm thinking get to halfway in 31:30 and see how I feel, hopefully would be able to gradually step it up then, go for sub 63, would be delighted with that, but if I was feeling really good, maybe even sub 62. Not inclined to be overly conservative on this one with a potential re-run in mallow the week after if I make a mess of things.

Gringo78

Jan 21st

Intervals: Plan was 4x1mile @ 6:00 pace. Splits were 6:05 / 5:55 / 6:03 / 5:59. 3min recovery after rep 1 then 3:30 recovery after rep 2 and 3. felt a lot easier than last week although was tough with the wind to judge pace

Gringo78

Jan 22nd

3.6 miles recovery, hilly, at avg pace 8:00

Jan 23rd

6.3 miles at avg pace 7:00. No time for a LSR today (hopefully tomorrow) so did first PMP run, so 4 miles at PMP pace (will increase this up to 10 over the next few weeks). Averaged 6:45 for the 4 miles and felt nice and easy. Cooldown was a mile avg gradient 6%, intend to do this for all PMP runs to make sure I have enough in the tank for HOTW. PMP felt very easy, obviously would be a lot differnt after 20 miles

Gringo78

Jan 24th

10.6 miles easy at avg pace 7:34. Didn't have time for LSR today so happy enough to get out at all and probably better off without LSR as 46 miles this week and an extra 8 would have been too much of a step up from 37 miles last week. Would have been a doubling of my average weekly mileage in 2 weeks.

Summary of week:

6 mile Tempo, 4x 1mile Intervals, 4 miles @ PMP, 10 mile aerobic, good hilly recovery runs, Total 46 miles.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

I will do a 5 miler on the track tuesday in 30 and see what its like(thats my session i think i will do this week) Has worked for me in hte past.

Read this in VRs log and thought it was a good idea so said I'd give it a go for a Tempo session today. Aim was to basically run 6 miles as I intend to run the first 6 miles in Dungarvan, which would be 6:30 for the first mile then 5 miles @ 6:15, passing through 5 mile mark in 31:30. Was a bit tired today as it was my 8th straight day running but managed (after a 0.6 mile warmup) 6:28 / 6:20 / 6:13 / 6:06 / 6:10 / 6:11. Passed through 5 miles in 31:16 so more or less on target. Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.

Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30

Todays session was a real confidence booster as I was not rested heading into the session and yet was not a broken man after the 6th mile . Racing flats and race day adrenaline, and no more intense sessions before the race should mean I should be able to hold 6:15 pace for miles 2-9 which would give a race target of 62:30. I don't think sub 62 is on this week though but I intend to push it close.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

Read this in VRs log and thought it was a good idea so said I'd give it a go for a Tempo session today. Aim was to basically run 6 miles as I intend to run the first 6 miles in Dungarvan, which would be 6:30 for the first mile then 5 miles @ 6:15, passing through 5 mile mark in 31:30. Was a bit tired today as it was my 8th straight day running but managed (after a 0.6 mile warmup) 6:28 / 6:20 / 6:13 / 6:06 / 6:10 / 6:11. Passed through 5 miles in 31:16 so more or less on target. Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.

Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30

Todays session was a real confidence booster as I was not rested heading into the session and yet was not a broken man after the 6th mile . Racing flats and race day adrenaline, and no more intense sessions before the race should mean I should be able to hold 6:15 pace for miles 2-9 which would give a race target of 62:30. I don't think sub 62 is on this week though but I intend to push it close.

Good session Gringo,always good to get a confidence booster.
Sensible to do the first mile slower to get in the swing of things,i took that approach for the half in Dec and it worket a treat,getting stronger as the race went on and finished like a 5m race.
Best of luck Sunday

theboyblunder

Sosa wrote: »

Good session Gringo,always good to get a confidence booster.
Sensible to do the first mile slower to get in the swing of things,i took that approach for the half in Dec and it worket a treat,getting stronger as the race went on and finished like a 5m race.
Best of luck Sunday

+1 great running to average 6:14. Best of luck at the weekend....

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.
Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30
/QUOTE]

savage session lad, your in top form, I'll stay with ya for the first mile, after that your def on your own!

Gringo78

Gringo78 wrote: »

I'll be watching my weight during training. Presently 75kg and would like to get this down to 72kg for the marathon. Was 78kg for the marathon last year so good that I'm already 3kg better off than at the end of training in June but would like to get this down more.

Weight now down to 72kg, already ready hit my target weight and the lowest its been in about 8 years. With 11 weeks until the marathon I think I should be able to drop this to 70kg (BMI 21.5) which would be a great race weight.

Jan 26th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly, @avg pace 7:48

tisnotover

thats good going on the weight lad, be worth a bit over 10miles?

misty floyd

Gringo, this is a great thread....you are going great. Gonna keep an eye on the log and best of luck in Dungarvan. You'll run a strong race thats for sure.

Abhainn

Good form there Gringo78. You look well on target there for Sunday

Gringo78

Jan 27th

3 miles easy at avg pace 7:49

Jan 28th

Interval Session: Planned 3x2km @ 6:05 pace with 1km recovery jog
Split 1: 6:04 pace split 2: 6:09 pace Split 3: 6:02 pace.
Took longer recovery's than I normally in light of Sundays race so didn't find this session too tough.
Total: 6.4 miles @ avg pace 6:53

Have now run 141 miles for January which beats my previous record mileage for a month (140.5 - July '09). My highest monthly mileage in my last marathon training block was 135 so already training is well ahead of last year.

village runner

F*ck Mallow. Dont have it as a cop out race. If you can run 6 @ 6.14 with no breather I would be having a crack at 61 for sure. I would be going through halfway in 31 ease down the big hill as you will see lads sprinting down it(not me) and take it from there. Pick one lad at a time. But 63 sounds like a tempo run for you. Race the Fu**ing thing.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

F*ck Mallow. Dont have it as a cop out race.

Yeah, you're right. Got a fright today at work when I twisted my ankle (all ok though luckily) and I thought, f**k it, I might not race again, haven't raced since september, so should give it an honest 100%.

village runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

Yeah, you're right. Got a fright today at work when I twisted my ankle (all ok though luckily) and I thought, f**k it, I might not race again, haven't raced since september, so should give it an honest 100%.

Mallow is Ideal as a 5 mile pmp and a 5 mile race??? I dont know if i would race well a week later.

tisnotover

Best of luck Sunday lad. Mite see ya around start!