SUV Drivers can't handle snow

RATM

Funny Article here, the author does have somewhat of a point.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/eddie-cunningham-cold-war-time-suv-showoffs-got-a-grip-1998941.html

THEY were more to be pitied than laughed at, but I laughed at them. SUV snobs of the tarmac, their sunglasses lifting cosseted hair off their brows all year, hadn't a clue how to use the technological prowess of their machines (4x4s) to get them through a few miserly centimetres of snow.

What an apposite summation of everything that was wrong with the Celtic Tiger. Form before substance, want before need, credit before it is earned.

Now here they were, exposed for the first time as the SUV shams they -- and thousands like them -- have become.

They spent heavily and heartily on getting the big bruisers under their trim bums.

But they never bothered those same bums to even try to understand what it was they were steering.

If they had they would not have been spinning their wheels like flailing windmills or fish-tailing their SUVs by trying to make power -- as opposed to skill -- count against the relatively mild, but unfamiliar, elements.

It just so happened that we were slowly travelling along the M50 southbound as New Year approached.

I was a tad concerned, not for myself, but for my passengers and, like most others, drove with extreme caution and as slowly as possible.

It afforded us -- and the few other souls attempting, like us, to be stationary and on terra firma before we bellowed Happy New Year -- an opportunity to witness appalling examples of how clueless some drivers can be.

But, whether by coincidence or design, the ones that stood out, even in the blinding white of snowfall, were those in their large 4x4s and SUVs dizzying around like Michael Jackson in full flight as they attempted to drive up a couple of off-ramps.

One man (in case you think that this is directed at female drivers) showed absolutely no understanding whatsoever of how to use his powerful 4x4 by stabbing bursts of power to the wheels and then clunking to a halt.

In the 30 seconds or so we could see him, he managed to get the vehicle crossways on the ramp and jeopardise two others behind him. All he had to do was let the 4x4 power ease him to the top.

That's what 4x4 means -- each wheel gets power so all contribute to the push and none has to be dragged by the others as is the case in most of our conventional motor cars.

And if your vehicle does not have permanent 4x4, it almost certainly has it available at the push of a button or flick of a switch, unless you have availed of the more recent 4x2 (two-wheel-drive only) phenomenon. In which case you join the rest of us in snaking along.

That little bit of snow covered the country but also managed to expose so many SUV owners for not having even bothered to understand what magnificent ability they had at their disposal. There was nothing on the roads over the last week that should have been a cause of undue concern to anyone with a 4x4. I'm not being cavalier about this because every driver has to exercise caution and courtesy at all times.

But it was ridiculous to hear people with big SUVs lying up in the driveway saying they weren't able to get to the office or shops.

OF course, they shouldn't feel pressurised to take to the roads but I believe if many of them had an inkling of how capable their vehicles were they would not have been so scared of taking them sure-footed and safe to wherever they wanted to go.

The snow also exposed two other kinds of SUV drivers: the bullies and the aficionados.

The bullies paraded their big motors, and sent slush, grit and muck spiralling our way by driving too fast. Again, they were typical of so many who feel they are entitled to the freedom of the road just because they sit higher in bigger vehicles.

But the saving grace, although in a minority, were those who drive SUVs/4x4s because they value their vehicles for their grip in poor conditions and their ability to overcome with some ease the relatively minor obstacles posed by a wet, windy or chilly spell.

They can justifiably say they bought for pleasure and purpose.

No spinning of wheels there; no slinging of mud and slush in your direction just because you're in a family saloon or estate.

Indeed no. There were the real motorists, the people who want to have a big comfortable 'car' and the technological underpinnings that make it safer and more likely to withstand the minor slings and arrows our winters can hoist in their direction.

For those who don't realise how lucky they are to have such a wonderful beast in their driveway, may I suggest you take a few minutes and talk to your dealer or read the manual that comes with your SUV so you can get even a tiny idea of what it is about.

Judging from the antics of those I saw over the past week or so, there are a lot out there who need to take some time out.

And it would benefit us all if they did so.

I've seen enough unnecessary wheel-spinning to last me a long time. So please chill out, folks, and get to grips with what you have.

ecunningham@independent.ie

Saab Ed

Thats so true. I was forced to undertake a Landrover Freelander the other night on a roundabout doing 5 MPH on snow. Funny thing is as a passed buy in the slow lane doing 3 or 4 times the speed my car never budged, a lowly Toyota Corolla diesel I might ad. I think its also fair to say that some of the 4WD systems in modern SUV's are ancient and very basic anyway. Most would struggle on a wet road nevermind snow. But the meatballs that drive them do leave a lot to be desired.

Cookie_Monster

One of the guys in my estate thought it'd be fun to take his old Pajero out onto the green space out front in the snow. It was still there the next day :pac:

Landyaddict

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

One of the guys in my estate thought it'd be fun to take his old Pajero out onto the green space out front in the snow. It was still there the next day :pac:

thats just Class. I had a similiar guy were I live. Just cause he drives a 4x4 didn't mean he knew how to drive it. slipping and spinning at the entrance to our estate.
I drive a 30 year old Land Rover, I had no problems.

Landy

gears

I know did any one see the X5 on the news yesterday doing a ballet routine at a junction, hilarious stuff and dangerous.

biko

Laughable as it may be, their weight and high bumpers can cause serious damage if they career into a smaller, normal, car.

ScumLord

I don't know why the author holds the SUV in such high regard. Most the new SUVs are no more 4x4 than a wheelbarrow. That abomination BMW on top gear last being the height of uselessness but it was the end of a long line of completely pointless vehicles, like them SUV porches you'd need to have a lobotomy to think that thing was anything other than a bad joke.

ednwireland

dont know if the guy following me home yesterday was in a 4x4 but he was half a car length behind me on an icy back road, never have i been happier to turn on to my lane
what is it with people driving at normal distances in these conditions ?

not as good as the van this morning with home made snow chains made of nylon rope (which obviousley didnt work as i'm trying to slow myself down to his 2 mph on a downhill)

Cookie_Monster

ednwireland wrote: »

dont know if the guy following me home yesterday was in a 4x4 but he was half a car length behind me on an icy back road, never have i been happier to turn on to my lane
what is it with people driving at normal distances in these conditions ?

Driving to the gf parent house on new years day, roads were pretty bad. Guy in front of me (30-40m+) in white micra sitting less than 2m from the guy infront of him :eek:
Crazy stuff, accident waiting to happen

Landyaddict

Magnus wrote: »

Laughable as it may be, their weight and high bumpers can cause serious damage if they career into a smaller, normal, car.

Very true in deed. I think people who buy a 4X4(SUV) should be made to take a driving course on how to drive them properly in this type of weather conditions we are currently having.

monkeypants

Not surprised by this at all, some of the worst driving that I've seen comes from SUVs. I'm especially amused by some of the parking that's attempted.

PCPhoto

Landyaddict wrote: »

Very true in deed. I think people who buy a 4X4(SUV) should be made to take a driving course on how to drive them properly in this type of weather conditions we are currently having.

shouldnt we do that will all "drivers" and refuse to allow them to drive if they dont show knowledge/understanding of how to use common sense.

kmick

This article is rubbish. Even 4 wheel drive cant help you on a sheet of ice. If people cant drive properly it does not matter whether they are in an SUV or a Toyota Aygo - they still cant drive.

bazzachazza

I had one idiot in a 4x4 close to kissing my ass whilst he was using his mobile.

cadaliac

kmick wrote: »

This article is rubbish. Even 4 wheel drive cant help you on a sheet of ice. If people cant drive properly it does not matter whether they are in an SUV or a Toyota Aygo - they still cant drive.

+1
Black ice doesn't care what you drive.

Farls

kmick wrote: »

This article is rubbish. Even 4 wheel drive cant help you on a sheet of ice. If people cant drive properly it does not matter whether they are in an SUV or a Toyota Aygo - they still cant drive.

For the most part I would agree with you, on ice a 4x4 will get you further with their weight and better traction but when it comes to stopping its a real gamble especially going down hill!!

I drive a 4x4 and have been passed out by cars and tail-gated (absolutely idiotic behaviour) in these conditions, and all I do is laugh because that is what they are. Driving in snow is one thing but on black and white ice is a completely different matter plus if I crash I have a lot more expense to loose than a lot of the cars I have seen flying around the roads.

RobAMerc

RATM wrote: »

Funny Article here, the author does have somewhat of a point.

Why just aim your critisim at 4x4 drivers when 90% of Irish drivers are sh*t, with no clue of the ability of their car under any conditions ?

Plenty of car drivers can't handle a fookin roundabout and they negotiate them every day, why pick on SUV drivers for the once in a lifetime they have one and can't handle snow.

ScumLord wrote: »

like them SUV porches you'd need to have a lobotomy to think that thing was anything other than a bad joke.

The Cayenne is in fact a VW Touareg in drag and is quite capable off road and should not be compared to the X6 at all. Just coz it's a Porsche doesn't mean it's crap off road !

P.C.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

One of the guys in my estate thought it'd be fun to take his old Pajero out onto the green space out front in the snow. It was still there the next day :pac:

I don't understand this post.

Not trying to be funny, or have a go at the poster.

What I don't understand is why anyone would leave a Pajero out on a green space - drive it home, and park it in your driveway.

Years ago, somone stole my fathers Land Rover - it was gone for almost 6 months. Anyway, it was found, and my father went to go and collect it, only to be told that it was not at the 'cop shop', but still in the forest where it had been found.
My father asked them why it had not been driven to the cop shop - he was told 'it is stuck'.
So, he got them to take him there. He got into the Land Rover, started it, put it in Low Ratio, locked the diffs, and slowely drove it out of the forest.

RATM

RobAMerc wrote: »

Why just aim your critisim at 4x4 drivers when 90% of Irish drivers are sh*t, with no clue of the ability of their car under any conditions ?

Plenty of car drivers can't handle a fookin roundabout and they negotiate them every day, why pick on SUV drivers for the once in a lifetime they have one and can't handle snow.

I think you've missed the point there Rob. I didn't post the thread to have a dig at 4x4 drivers- the main jist of the article is that 4x4 drivers have the necessary equipment to deal with the snowy conditions yet they either
a) Don't seem to know exactly the capabilities of their 4x4
b) Don't know how to use them

I can only talk of my own experience of working for a ski resort where I had to drive up a 22km snow & ice filled road in a 4x4 as part of my job. I did this up to four times a day and my journeys up the mountain also included a towing a trailer full of Coke, booze, etc. I was given a one day course on Ice Driving on a frozen lake as preparation. Anyway my experience showed me that a 4x4 can handle well over a foot of snow with no major problems and is far more effective on ice than a 2wd (provided chains are fitted). In Ireland all we got is a couple of cm's of snow, a dusting is the most appropiate word, and 4x4 drivers seem to be completely baffled to the point that some stayed at home.

The irony is that 4x4s are equipped for a lot more than a couple of cm's of snow, yet the drivers of them don't even seem to know it.

T-Maxx

Bear in mind that most 4x4's weigh considerably more than your average car. Also, you won't be driving with 4x4 engaged all the time - not a problem with the new yokes in which you can shift on the fly - but with mine you have to be at a standstill to engage the 4x4 gearbox.

Cookie_Monster

P.C. wrote: »

I don't understand this post.

Not trying to be funny, or have a go at the poster.

What I don't understand is why anyone would leave a Pajero out on a green space - drive it home, and park it in your driveway.

As in it got stuck and he had to leave it there over night despite putting lots of cardboard under the wheel to try free it. The are nice deep ice filled grooves across the green now.

stealthyspeeder

RATM wrote: »

I can only talk of my own experience of working for a ski resort where I had to drive up a 22km snow & ice filled road in a 4x4 as part of my job. I did this up to four times a day and my journeys up the mountain also included a towing a trailer full of Coke, booze, etc. .

Was this on the Columbia/Peru border?

RobAMerc

RATM wrote: »

I think you've missed the point there Rob. I didn't post the thread to have a dig at 4x4 drivers- the main jist of the article is that 4x4 drivers have the necessary equipment to deal with the snowy conditions yet they either
a) Don't seem to know exactly the capabilities of their 4x4
b) Don't know how to use them

Apologies, my post wasn't aimed at you it was aimed at the author of the piece.

In my opinion the piece was very obviously having a dig at the people who bought 4*4's as a fashion item and not as an all terrain vehicle.
My point was, in a country where alot of people have no idea how use their cars everyday, why single out SUV owners for not being able to drive in snow for the 5 days a year we might have it?

TomMc

While I would agree on an inability of many to use 4x4 on SUV's to their advantage, the amount of ice on the roads over the past fortnight would have played a major role in what the OP witnessed. The worst I can ever remember, as I was too young to drive back in '77 or '80 (thereabouts) when we had real snow and artic conditions. Whatever traction there is on snow, there is none on sheets of ice. Quite a number of times I got ABS brake pedal judder at crawling speeds on secondary roads.

P.C.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

As in it got stuck and he had to leave it there over night despite putting lots of cardboard under the wheel to try free it. The are nice deep ice filled grooves across the green now.

I hear you, but I still find it hard to see how he got it stuck in the first place.

Then again, don't take your vehicle off road, if you:
a.) don't know how to drive off road properly
b.) don't actually know what the conditions are like.

RATM

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Was this on the Columbia/Peru border?

haha I wish Its was in New Zealand- I worked as the stock transporter for the ski resort which meant that every single bottle of Coke, burger, pasta etc had to be dragged up the mountain to the ski resort base. It was a fun job but I did have a few hairy moments on ice in the 3 months I did it. That said a 4x4 combined with snow chains is the only way to go when driving on snow and ice filled roads.

RATM

RobAMerc wrote: »

Apologies, my post wasn't aimed at you it was aimed at the author of the piece.

In my opinion the piece was very obviously having a dig at the people who bought 4*4's as a fashion item and not as an all terrain vehicle.
My point was, in a country where alot of people have no idea how use their cars everyday, why single out SUV owners for not being able to drive in snow for the 5 days a year we might have it?

No probs man, point taken. I guess the author is having a dig for sure- Im also guessing his editor is sick of journos coming to them with stories of bad driving so here he took the initiative and came up with a fresh angle. But you are right. dreadful driving does take place on our roads irrespective of snow or sunshine conditions.

inforfun

The roads are not the problem.
The cars are not the problem
The weather is not the problem

The tool between the seat and the steering wheel, THAT is the real problem.

MI5

kmick wrote: »

This article is rubbish. Even 4 wheel drive cant help you on a sheet of ice. If people cant drive properly it does not matter whether they are in an SUV or a Toyota Aygo - they still cant drive.

Exactly!!! I own and run a Landcruiser for private and work purposes. It is a super vehicle on off road situations, sites, visiting land drainage projects. Pulls trailers for fun in wet greasy situations. I have been driving these things for over 20 years in such conditions. Handles ok as well in normal soft / half frozen snow and hail stone situations.

BUT ... when you have a sheet of ice, black or white, the thing is useless. I would not even need to try to use it to know this, and I didn't even try to use it in such conditions as we had on my local roads the days immediately after christmas. Continuous sheets of ice!!!
Neither is a normal agricultural tractor any good either in such a situation.
I have seen this year, poor drivers of both types ov vehicle try what shouldn't be tried on hard continuous ice. Stupid, just stupid.

It aint the vehicle folks. It's the stupid drivers.

T-Maxx

inforfun wrote: »

The roads are not the problem.
The cars are not the problem
The weather is not the problem

The tool between the seat and the steering wheel, THAT is the real problem.

I have to disagree - the state of most roads is seriously lacking.

But, point taken.;)

T-Maxx

WTF is black ice?

(Apart from Paddy's excuse for running into the ditch.)

Anan1

T-Maxx wrote: »

WTF is black ice?

(Apart from Paddy's excuse for running into the ditch.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice

RobAMerc

There used to be a sign on the back road to Waterford from Fiddown (spelling) for about 3 years warning of black ice.

I once had some guy flash me and point at the sign on a day that must have had the tar melting it was so hot !

Cionád

Journalist who wrote this is next up on Newstalk 106...

stevenmu

RobAMerc wrote: »

Why just aim your critisim at 4x4 drivers when 90% of Irish drivers are sh*t, with no clue of the ability of their car under any conditions ?

Simple, we spent all of last year moaning about foreigners, drunks, druggies, boy racers, women, tailgators, slow drivers, overtaking lane hoggers, drivers not indicating, people on phones, people who use the wrong lane and cut in at last second and people who can't park. Now it's the 4x4 drivers turn.

Stay tuned for next weeks show when we complain about the people who jam on the brakes every time there's a car coming in the opposite direction :pac:

T-Maxx

Anan1 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice

Precisely.

It's tranparent, not black.

AdyDurn

stevenmu wrote: »

Stay tuned for next weeks show when we complain about the people who jam on the brakes every time there's a car coming in the opposite direction :pac:

LOL, You just wrecked my keyboard.

Unless of course you meant that they're on their own side of the road? I would like to go out on a limb say most potential accidents are avoided by other people. All we're talking about in snowy/icy conditions is people having accidents that don't require the other party, and are therfore unavoidable.

Farls

T-Maxx wrote: »

Precisely.

It's tranparent, not black.

what colour is the road underneath it?

bazzachazza

Farls wrote: »

what colour is the road underneath it?

Only if road is made of Asphalt is it black, What about concrete roads i.e. on estates.

Cuddlesworth

stevenmu wrote: »

Stay tuned for next weeks show when we complain about the people who jam on the brakes every time there's a car coming in the opposite direction :pac:

Can I start ranting about the guy I saw texting on a motorbike now?

E39MSport

I'm with a few of the previous posters on this re: control on ice. My 4x4 at least is terrible on ice. Slightest undulation will send it off and hence I drive the fwd starlet instead.
It's great on road, snow, mud, general off road etc especially with the BFG AT's.
The beemer is off the road too.

whadabouchasir

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Can I start ranting about the guy I saw texting on a motorbike now?

You don't need to bother,he's probably dead by now.

P.C.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Can I start ranting about the guy I saw texting on a motorbike now?

You can if you want - might want to start a new thread.

whadabouchasir wrote: »

You don't need to bother,he's probably dead by now.

No, he just text me.

Anan1

T-Maxx wrote: »

Precisely.

It's tranparent, not black.

bazzachazza wrote: »

Only if road is made of Asphalt is it black, What about concrete roads i.e. on estates.

If either of you had taken the time to read even the first few lines of the wiki article I linked to...

Cookie_Monster

P.C. wrote: »

I hear you, but I still find it hard to see how he got it stuck in the first place.

Then again, don't take your vehicle off road, if you:
a.) don't know how to drive off road properly
b.) don't actually know what the conditions are like.

Becaue he's a muppet I suspect :pac:

GTE

RobAMerc wrote: »

Apologies, my post wasn't aimed at you it was aimed at the author of the piece.

In my opinion the piece was very obviously having a dig at the people who bought 4*4's as a fashion item and not as an all terrain vehicle.
My point was, in a country where alot of people have no idea how use their cars everyday, why single out SUV owners for not being able to drive in snow for the 5 days a year we might have it?

I agree that not very many people really know how to handle their car in this kind of weather but with regards to having a dig and the majority of 4x4 drivers;
They most likely did buy it just for the fashion and the seeming authority they get on the roads but if you asked them why did they buy such a vehicle they could say
"The Irish roads are so bad it makes sense to have a 4x4" even though my humble Golf could do just a good job at driving on the same public roads they do.

Thats a fun stereotype to slag off IMO and I think thats what the article was really about.

A seperate and a much more serious issue is the general competence of drivers on the road. Im not going to say that I can drive well in these conditions but I will search around and find out. The article was a more tounge in cheek slag at the silly people for me. A more serious discussion of how well we all can drive should be kept seperate from comments about the article, for me anyway.

Regards
bbk

T-Maxx

Anan1 wrote: »

If either of you had taken the time to read even the first few lines of the wiki article I linked to...

Jeez, let's see, how else can I put it...

Ice is transparent, or maybe white, but definitely not black. That's the point I was trying to get across, apologies if I didn't make it clear enough.

GTE

T-Maxx wrote: »

Jeez, let's see, how else can I put it...

Ice is transparent, or maybe white, but definitely not black. That's the point I was trying to get across, apologies if I didn't make it clear enough.

What colour is the road underneath? :rolleyes:
Black ice is the term used for ice that has frozen in such a way its become see through to the point that the black road surface underneath comes through.

:S

spaced

I saw two in my housing estate that couldnt get out of the driveway , who knows how they got it in there.

so true that most were bought for fashion and the drivers can't drive them. From my experience the iffy driving i see is 50% 4X4's (SUV's) and the other half every other car type.
The driving test is not a good representation, 30 mins with a guy in a car anyone can behave themselves

Alun

spaced wrote: »

so true that most were bought for fashion and the drivers can't drive them.

The 20", skinny profile, nearly slick tyres probably don't help either, AWD or not.

spaced

Alun wrote: »

The 20", skinny profile, nearly slick tyres probably don't help either, AWD or not.

I completely forgot about those tyres, what a joke