NCT 30 year exemption !!!

mgbgt1978

Just spotted this in the motors section. there was a thread there about the new NCT contractors and one of the posters quoted the changes due to come into force
Main Changes to the NCT with effect from January 4th 2010:
10. Dangerous Vehicle
New arrangements will apply when it is considered that a tested vehicle would be a danger to the public if driven. In such a case a “Fail Dangerous” notice will be affixed, and An Garda Siochana will be notified if the owner/presenter drives the vehicle from the centre. The use of a dangerously defective vehicle on a public road is an offence for which the driver and owner could be prosecuted with a fine of up to €2,000 and 5 penalty points on conviction and/or 3 months imprisonment.
11. Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate
The details of the Vehicle Registration/Licensing Certificate which must be presented at NCT will be compared to the vehicle. Any discrepancies will be notified to the owner/presenter and Vehicle Registration Unit. Even if the vehicle passes all other aspects of the test, a test certificate will not be issued until the discrepancies are corrected.
12. Cars over 30 years old
At present vehicles over 30 years old are exempt. From now on vehicles registered prior to 1 January 1980 will not be liable to testing. In this way older vehicles will be brought into the testing system year on year.
13. Requirement for Identification
The owner/presenter of the vehicle will be required to produce a driving licence or passport, and, if relevant, details of the garage/company on behalf of which the vehicle is presented.

looking at item no. 12 it seems that the rolling 30 year exemption for classic cars has now ceased. from now on all cars first registered after 1 january 1980 will always be required to undergo an nct test. unfortunately this means that anyone who has a 1980 (or later) car who had hoped to be exempt this year (or next etc.) is going to be disappointed.

apologies if this has already been covered but i couldn't find it here.
p.s. just found the source for this info. www.noeldempsey.ie -december press release.

rotorhead

Am I wrong or does this suggest the end of 30 year exemption
ie all cars reg after 1/1/1980 will be tested in future /

Itsfixed

Yes, cars registered after 1 jan 1980 will have to be tested every year, as per cars over 10 years old. The rolling 30 years exemption for NCTs is being stopped. So if your car was first registered any time after then will have to do an NCT every year indefinitely.

mountai

Well I dont know about anybody else, but I have no problem with any of the points raised in the new rules.Personally, I would"nt wish to drive a car that was"nt fit to be on the road.Common sense has prevailed!!!!!

trevorbrady

Now is the time to buy yourself a tow-truck and stick flyers in the waiting room of the NCT centre. If those vehicles that are found to be dangerous can't be driven home or repaired on site like the UK MOT centres then the only option is having it lifted and transported home. You can be sure the NCTS won't want a growing pile of fail-dangerous sh!t-heaps gathering in their car park so you'll need it moved sharpish.

Cash-in time for tow truck operators

kasper

plus if your nct is expired it will probably have to be towed in as well ,time to buy a tow truck

antodeco

Ah balls! Was going to buy a Dec 1980 car and have it NCT'd until December and then be worry free afterwards! Ah nuts :mad:

OP, do you have a source for this?

Thanks

Dades

For fupp's sake.

Here's me hoping I'd have one more NCT left on my '83 Porsche. Feckers.
Why has the same trick not been applied to the motor tax and VRT I wonder.

*sigh*

--amadeus--

Dades wrote: »

For fupp's sake.

Here's me hoping I'd have one more NCT left on my '83 Porsche. Feckers.
Why has the same trick not been applied to the motor tax and VRT I wonder.

*sigh*

Don't you mean "wonder when the same trick...etc"

rotorhead

Dades wrote: »

For fupp's sake.

Here's me hoping I'd have one more NCT left on my '83 Porsche. Feckers.
Why has the same trick not been applied to the motor tax and VRT I wonder.

*sigh*

I would not mind testing I may be wrong (hopefully) but does it not also imply no more cheap tax and also €50 registration/vrt

quenching

mountai wrote: »

Well I dont know about anybody else, but I have no problem with any of the points raised in the new rules.Personally, I would"nt wish to drive a car that was"nt fit to be on the road.Common sense has prevailed!!!!!

Have to agree, if it can't pass the NCT requirements relevant to the age of the car then it shouldn't be on the road. Lots of classic car owners maintain their cars very well, but I've seen lots of "classic" cars for sale that have no hope of passing an NCT with sellers hoping for an ill informed buyer just looking for a car with so called "low running costs".

aidhan

rotorhead wrote: »

Am I wrong or does this suggest the end of 30 year exemption
ie all cars reg after 1/1/1980 will be tested in future /

I have a merc registered 1/1/80 Is this exempt or would it have to be 31/12/79 or older to be exempt?

Dades

rotorhead wrote: »

does it not also imply no more cheap tax and also €50 registration/vrt

Fortunately the NCT regs have nothing to do with motor tax or VRT.

My guess is the change has coincided with the change in testing partners. It might have been a condition in there somewhere.

--amadeus--

quenching wrote: »

Have to agree, if it can't pass the NCT requirements relevant to the age of the car then it shouldn't be on the road. Lots of classic car owners maintain their cars very well, but I've seen lots of "classic" cars for sale that have no hope of passing an NCT with sellers hoping for an ill informed buyer just looking for a car with so called "low running costs".

And there is the critical point. For example classics currently don't have to have seatbelts fitted unless they were fitted from new. Cars undergoing an NCT must have seatbelts for all occupants. How will that work? What about emissions? I don't have the reqs for the NCT but isn't there a brake force requirement? How will that be applied to cars with older brakes? What about high level brake lights?

I have no issue with all cars on the road being safe but judging a 30 year old car by modern standards is ludicrous and having tiers of standards for cars of various ages will be a nightmare to administer and will only lead to appeals and red tape.

Kevin_Herron

I agree that unsafe cars have no place on Irish roads, everybody will agree with that.

However, I can see my '80 Granada being shot down on something like faded headlamps or something silly that I wont be able to find a brand new set of!!

mountai

My understanding is

---

Cars can only be tested to the standards that prevailed at time of manufacture. If seatbelts were not fitted as standard, then there is no, and was never a requirement to retro fit them. Emission testing only came in a couple of years ago, if the engine in your car is of a certain age , then testing is excluded. With regards to faulty reflectors, they should be put right to the standard that they were at when first manufactured.Brake testing is obligatory on any vehicle,but again they can only look for the standard that prevailed when first manufactured. Most of the Warning Systems only came in with modern technology, if your car was"nt fitted with them, then there is no requirement to test for same. One good thing about this is, it will take all the Rust Buckets off the roads.

carchaeologist

And thats tested every year too.Iv got caught by 17 days..:rolleyes::p

unkel

mountai wrote: »

My understanding is

---

Cars can only be tested to the standards that prevailed at time of manufacture. If seatbelts were not fitted as standard, then there is no, and was never a requirement to retro fit them.

That's it! As you say, same with emissions. Old cars without cats can't be expected to emit as few of those tiny bastard particles as new cars

mgbgt1978

http://www.noeldempsey.ie/index.php/national/minister-for-transport-announces-changes-to-the-national-car-test-nct

here is the link to the minister's press release from december 28. While i do agree with the comments made by some of you regarding safety i really feel that this is just another revenue-gathering exercise. if noel dempsey is really concerned about the roadworthiness of older cars why didn't he bring this change in sooner. it seems that this recession has coincided with a lot more stealth taxes and in this instance classic car owners are being hit.

Dades

carchaeologist wrote: »

And thats tested every year too.Iv got caught by 17 days..:rolleyes::p

Nightmare! You've a Jan reg'd 1980? :pac:

JoeySully

12. Cars over 30 years old
· At present vehicles over 30 years old are exempt. From now on vehicles registered prior to 1 January 1980 will not be liable to testing. In this way older vehicles will be brought into the testing system year on year.

Great so im still exempt mine was registered early 1979 - I was a bit worried there, not that I think it would fail or anything but just the extra cost and time to get it done.

TigerTim

Will classic car tax only apply to cars pre 1980 or will that continue to be for cars older than 30 years going forward.

T.

v300

TigerTim wrote: »

Will classic car tax only apply to cars pre 1980 or will that continue to be for cars older than 30 years going forward.

T.

The vintage tax is still rolling forwards.

Dades

v300 wrote: »

The vintage tax is still rolling forwards.

For at least three more years pleeeeaaaase!

corktina

nightmare....i had my eyes on a 1980 Cortina , a very nice one at the right price....wont be worth as much now and would be difficult to sell in the future so I ve backed out of buying it...

having said that theres a little voice inside me that says ALL cars should be NCTd

si_guru

corktina wrote: »

having said that theres a little voice inside me that says ALL cars should be NCTd

I agree... nearly all other countries seem to be able to do it.

8~)

corktina wrote: »

nightmare....i had my eyes on a 1980 Cortina , a very nice one at the right price....wont be worth as much now and would be difficult to sell in the future so I ve backed out of buying it...

having said that theres a little voice inside me that says ALL cars should be NCTd

Yeah, but if it's very nice then why wouldn't it pass an NCT?

I think this is a good thing, though would like to see the charge reduced if it's an annual requirement... and appropriate leeway for older cars.

quattro777

I have 2 cars to NCT this year, a 1982 and a 2006. Both cars were imported from the UK..
Will I have to change the speedo in both cars from MPH to KPH?

si_guru

quattro777 wrote: »

I have 2 cars to NCT this year, a 1982 and a 2006. Both cars were imported from the UK..
Will I have to change the speedo in both cars from MPH to KPH?

No.. surely they show both anyway?

corktina

8~) wrote: »

Yeah, but if it's very nice then why wouldn't it pass an NCT?

I think this is a good thing, though would like to see the charge reduced if it's an annual requirement... and appropriate leeway for older cars.

it would walk the NCT but would anyone buy it off me in the future when they can get a 79 one NCT free? In the UK for instance the cut off is '73 (for free tax) and Mk3 Cortinas BEFORE the cut off are much more saleable than post cut-off ones....

carchaeologist

corktina wrote: »

it would walk the NCT but would anyone buy it off me in the future when they can get a 79 one NCT free? In the UK for instance the cut off is '73 (for free tax) and Mk3 Cortinas BEFORE the cut off are much more saleable than post cut-off ones....

This is what that bothers me,it will make some cars more saleable than others.
The problem here is if vintage tax and VRT gets locked at 1/1/80,its a serious problem.
I have no problem NCTing anything,but the 30 year exemption should roll realisticly.

mountai

For anyone worried about values on classics when NCT is introduced ----Look at it this way

---

. Most classics on our roads are imports from abroad.Most of these cars come from GB. Would anyone in their right mind buy a car , and import it from GB without a current MOT??.I think that the opposite will be true. A car with a current NCT will be more valuable than one without it.!!!

alpina

v300 wrote: »

The vintage tax is still rolling forwards.

Christ...now one gets a little nervous, they start changing one thing & .....

junkyard

I'm glad I moved out of this money grabbing little nation, the only thing that really needs an NCT is the shower ye call a government, I'd bet they'd all fail and it wouldn't be just on emissions!

corktina

alpina wrote: »

Christ...now one gets a little nervous, they start changing one thing & .....

yup...thin end of the wedge....i give it a year until they change the tax concessions too ..and the VRT ones....

carchaeologist

corktina wrote: »

yup...thin end of the wedge....i give it a year until they change the tax concessions too ..and the VRT ones....

Yes,i have the fear too,now theres a bar set for what a "Classic" is.

manta mad

heres a question for ye !

how far back do"s the car test data go ?

reason i ask is this , the last time i brought in a 1980 manta ,they had to test it off an 8 valve opel calibra !!!!!
they had no data on a manta sr .
so how many other cars of the 80s do they not have data for ?

its pure & simple ,this is a revenue making racket :mad:

we must be the quitest bunch of motorists in europe ,,,:(

co,s we sit back and take everything this shambles of a goverment throw our way ........

whats next for the over taxed irish motorist ??????

Dades

mountai wrote: »

For anyone worried about values on classics when NCT is introduced ----Look at it this way

---

. Most classics on our roads are imports from abroad.Most of these cars come from GB. Would anyone in their right mind buy a car , and import it from GB without a current MOT??

A current MOT frequently isn't worth much against our more rigorous NCT, tbh.

manta mad wrote: »

we must be the quitest bunch of motorists in europe ,,,:(

Classic owners have had good reason to keep quiet until recently! And if you ask me we should keep quiet lest we lose the tax and VRT exemptions we still get... :pac:

tattoo

I've recently purchased a 1979 vw camper. Its an american import but i don't think it was registered till 1980.

Does this new nct rule apply to me

Are campers exempt

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere and if its a stupid question

8~)

If it's registered as a camper it is exempt, for now at least, though there is talk of a DOE/NCT for campers.

Stop fretting about road tax and VRT exemptions. First off, it's not an exemption - there is still VRT and tax to pay but that just happens to be less than on a modern car.

If the same road tax and VRT conditions were applied to classics (i.e. on engine size or emissions) as on modern cars it would wipe out the classic scene in Ireland. Many classic shows and rallies donate to charities, they bring people together for a day out and provide a general feel good factor.

Remember when the charge for personal registration plates tripled a few years ago. People just didn't bother any more and revenue from that died.

Dades

8~) wrote: »

Stop fretting about road tax and VRT exemptions.

Okay.

8~) wrote: »

If the same road tax and VRT conditions were applied to classics (i.e. on engine size or emissions) as on modern cars it would wipe out the classic scene in Ireland.

Sorry - fretting again! :pac:

spooky donkey

I do agree with the need for the NCT but just not the money racket it has become. If there was a need for 10 year old card to be tested then why was it not introduced in the begining.
Also if they insist on yearly NCT then your yearly one should have been 25 yoyos not 50. Its only about making money cause the gov need to finance their mates in the banks.

think of it if your car was 300 a year to tax its now 350 with a yearly NCT plus what ever you spend on Tolls and tax on petrol. They want money off every one now even the few of us out there with classic cars who only bring them to the odd show over the summer.

end of rant...........

MercMad

I'm sorry but I can only view this as a good thing. I attend many car shows each year and occasionally spot a car that I wouldn't sit into let alone drive.

Brake pipes etc.... deteriorate even when not used and can prove fatal, lets not worry about getting a valued safety test for €50.

I am sure they will have to be lenient as they simply will nothave certain test criterion so this will be a basic saftey test to ensure your car is acceptable for road use.

niceirishfella

From irishtimes.com

IT’S A FAIR assumption that most people who own classic or vintage cars will look after them well and drive them only occasionally, writes JOHN CRADEN
According to research on old car usage here, undertaken in 2006 by the Irish Vintage and Veteran Car Club (IVVCC), 88 per cent of historic vehicles in Ireland are used less than three times a week, while 78 per cent travel no more than 2,000km a year.

These are some of the reasons why classic car insurance is a bit cheaper than for moderns, and also why a nominal rate of motor tax, at €48 a year, is levied on all cars first registered before 1980.

Less well known is the fact that any car over 30 years old is exempt from the legal requirement to have an NCT.

Yet owners can put an exempt classic in for a test voluntarily if they want to (see panel). The car will be tested according to much the same standards as a modern car except for exhaust emissions, which are exempt (for cars registered before January 1980) because the car manufacturer information on which the testers base the standards only goes back as far as October 1986.

Some minor variations in older cars are also taken into account. For instance, cars registered before June 1971 are not legally required to have front safety belts, so if they are not fitted that will have no bearing on the test result.

But, as you might expect, few people put their classics in for the test. According to the Road Safety Authority (RSA), which is now responsible for setting vehicle testing policy, 125 vehicles over 30 years old were tested in 2009, but these were mainly limousines and hackneys, which are public service vehicles and required by law to have a certificate of roadworthiness anyway.

Now, changes to the NCT recently announced by the Minster for Transport, Noel Dempsey, include a requirement for annual (rather than bi-annual) testing for all cars over 10 years old but also a provision that all cars registered after January 1st 1980 will continue to be tested.

This means that all cars first registered before this date will continue to be NCT exempt.

An RSA spokesman said that the relevant EU directive on vehicle testing allows a derogation on the mandatory testing of historic vehicles. “The directive provides that vehicles may not be tested to a higher standard than that to which they were originally designed,” he said.

This means the standards of the NCT are deemed to be so stringent that many classic cars, even those in perfect working order, would be unlikely to pass – particularly those older than 50 years.

But while some other EU countries have also chosen to exempt classic cars from testing, the number may be falling. Roadworthiness testing for classic cars in France was optional until the beginning of 2009, when it became law for cars aged over 30 to be tested (albeit every five years as opposed to the normal two years).

In the UK, all cars over three years old, including classics, must have an MOT to be allowed on the road. Sweden tests classic cars (aged 30 years or over) every second year as opposed to every year for modern cars.

In the Netherlands there is a bi-annual test for cars aged 30-50 years, but cars aged over 50 are exempt.

For many, the exemption here is not difficult to justify. The NCT, after all, is designed to force those who wilfully neglect their cars to keep them in roadworthy shape – definitely not an accusation you could level at the average classic car enthusiast.

But what about those who don’t fit the usual profile of classic car owners? Paul Kanters, who runs Classic Cars Ireland, acknowledges that most of the cars found at classic car shows here are in very good condition, but says that a few of the “contraptions” rolled out at some shows are in a “dreadful and woeful condition due to lack of maintenance and neglect, that you wonder how on earth they made it to the show in the first place.

“These cars would then be driven back home on public roads, endangering other road users who have complied with the rules and regulations,” he says. “Luckily this is only a very small percentage of cars, but that’s not an excuse to not have an NCT in place.”

But the IVVCC (Irish Veteran and Vintage Car Club), a national organisation with over 40 affiliated clubs, sees no reason for the exemption to be stopped, pointing out that there is no evidence of any significant number of accidents involving classics. “There is certainly no evidence that mechanical failure in such cars has given rise to any appreciable number of accidents,” says the club’s president, Peadar Ward.

An informal survey of other opinions among those in classic car circles suggests a strong divide between those who would have no issue with mandatory testing on safety grounds, and those who view it as totally unnecessary and just another tax on their hobby.

Some of those on the no-NCT side also worry that some aspects of the test could be unduly harsh on their old cars, while testers unfamiliar with unusual models could inadvertently damage them.

One enthusiast relayed an apparently true story about one ham-fisted NCT tester who managed to drive a 1940s Rolls Royce into a wall. The tester had turned off a switch for a vacuum pump that pressurises the brake system in order to complete a suspension test, but forgot to switch it back on when he was finished.

According to the RSA spokesman, the possibility of mandatory testing for historic vehicles will be “kept under review”, although any decision will remain up to the Minister for Transport. For this to happen, it’s clear from the EU rules that standards would have to be adapted in terms of the physical testing procedure in order to make it fairer on older cars.

For example, the suspension and brakes may need to be tested to a lower set of tolerances depending on the year of manufacture.

The test: did my classic car pass?

IF YOU pass an NCT in a cheap old banger without giving it any prior attention, it often feels a bit like you’ve beaten the system. Today, I’m about to put my much-loved 34-year-old classic car in for a NCT, but as I drive into the test centre at Fonthill in Dublin on this cold and frosty morning, I realise I’ve no idea how I would feel if the car were to fail.

When I bought my BMW 2002Tii in 2005 it was in immaculate condition but, five years and 20,000-odd miles later, it’s a bit rougher round the edges. But I haven’t skimped on maintenance, servicing or repairs.

Naturally I would be delighted if it passed, but given that a “fail/refusal” would have no bearing on my right to obtain a new tax disc or renew my insurance, will I care?

Beyond a few basic checks, I haven’t given the car any prior attention, although I am aware of a couple of potential failure points, including a weak handbrake (the rear brake drums and brake shoes need replacing). I didn’t check headlamp alignment either.

Sure enough, the car failed on the handbrake test and an offside headlamp misalignment, but also a slight front wheel misalignment and a minor structural rust spot on one of the sills.

But I could console myself with the finding that none of the failure points were anywhere near serious enough to judge it unsafe to drive. This is particularly good to know given its occasional use as a family chariot.

We also asked for an emissions test out of interest, but given that the earliest emissions standard the NCT has in its testing equipment dates from 1986, my 1974 car’s carbon monoxide emissions were judged to be somewhat off the chart, not helped by the fact it probably needs a bit of a tune.

On the plus side, the hydrocarbon rating was very good at 299ppm (the limit is 1,000 for post-1986 cars)which I gather is a goodsign that the engine internals are in rude health.

So all I would need to do to pass is get the car tracked, re-align the offside headlamp, order some new rear brake drums and shoes, and maybe a small bit of welding. All easy fixes.

Once all that’s done (and which would be done anyway), I may take it in for the re-test. I don’t need a green disc, but it might just become a badge of honour.

Dades

An RSA spokesman said that the relevant EU directive on vehicle testing allows a derogation on the mandatory testing of historic vehicles. “The directive provides that vehicles may not be tested to a higher standard than that to which they were originally designed,” he said.

This means the standards of the NCT are deemed to be so stringent that many classic cars, even those in perfect working order, would be unlikely to pass – particularly those older than 50 years.

This part doesn't make sense to me...

mountai

for instance

---

If your cars indicators dont work, then they will fail you .If however, your car didnt have indicators fitted ( a lot of early ones didnt ) then they cant refuse you a pass as they are not allowed to test for something that wasnt part of the original car .Same is true with regards to seat belts,mirrors,side repeators etc.

DaveCol

It's a pity they wouldn't base it on the latest IVVCC decision that considers cars built up to end of 1984 as Classics

http://www.ivvcc.ie/

Dades

mountai wrote: »

for instance

---

If your cars indicators dont work, then they will fail you .If however, your car didnt have indicators fitted ( a lot of early ones didnt ) then they cant refuse you a pass as they are not allowed to test for something that wasnt part of the original car .Same is true with regards to seat belts,mirrors,side repeators etc.

Assuming you're replying to my post - I get that part okay.

Why do they then go on to say this:

This means the standards of the NCT are deemed to be so stringent that many classic cars, even those in perfect working order, would be unlikely to pass – particularly those older than 50 years.

On one hand they you won't be failed on things you weren't supposed to have when the car was made - but then they say this means old cars in perfect working are unlikely to pass?

hi5

Dades wrote: »

Assuming you're replying to my post - I get that part okay.

Why do they then go on to say this:

"This means the standards of the NCT are deemed to be so stringent that many classic cars, even those in perfect working order, would be unlikely to pass – particularly those older than 50 years".





On one hand they you won't be failed on things you weren't supposed to have when the car was made - but then they say this means old cars in perfect working are unlikely to pass?

He's presuming that if no allowances at all were made then a brand new 50 year old car would fail,the NCT have always made allowances based on age,catalytics been one.
Poorly worded sentence trying to puff up the NCT.

Dony

I'm sickened by this! I've a 1980 merc W107 registered in february.
Can nothing be done about this? :mad::mad:

Landyaddict

I emailed both the RSA and the NCT about my 1980 Land Rover petrol.

RSA replied, it will need to be tested yearly


NCT, "In regards to the regulations as of 04/10/2010 vintage vehicles are now classed as any car registered prior to 1980, all cars registered from 1980 onwards regardless of year will still be subject to NCT every two years" taken from email.

I've gone back to the NCT as my vehicle is ex-MOD and has a few differences to the norm. I can't wait to hear back from them on that, especially the big 6 way switch on the dash that controls all my electrics

Landy