Match Up Advice Thread.

Azza

Hey guys I was thinking about starting a thread for discussing match ups in SF IV. Been playing a good few Irish players recently across all the formats recently and while player skill is variable few people seem to appraoch the match ups correctly.

I've seen in several interviews from both the American and Japanese scene that one of the big differences is players in Japan share information on match ups where as the Americans where more relunctant to share secrets. Both scenes reckon its one of the reasons why the Japanese are better.

Being a Bison player I'd be happy to offer my advice on how to play against him. I can also offer an opinion on good or bad habits I have observed players doing in match ups against me.

Other people who play other characters can also offer advice on there match ups.

So any questions, fire away.

Doctor DooM

Great idea. I'm also up for it

Guile vs Bison

Azza

Is that a request for advice on that match up

Because if it is I'll have to give you the wrong advice :P

Doctor DooM

If you tell me one thing I'll tell you how to mess up every single Guile's advantage on you


I have real trouble when Bison gets into block string on me. Especially on cross up. Other than that risky back jump throw I do, any ideas on how to stop it?

L31mr0d

Akuma v Bison

So far all I know is walk back, attempt something, eat 3 head stomps, KO. Any additional tips on how to die slower would be appreciated

Sagat06

Well the headstomp for me is only really effective if Bison has you in a corner. Other than that its just a matter of walking backwards or backdash and throw him.

Azza

The problem is you let him get a block string going in the first place. Your in 50/50 territory here.

At range Guile owns Bisons soul. Up close and personal its pretty much even.

Breaking it down into the two sections.

Ranged (including mid range) and up close.

Ranged

Obviously Guile wants to keep Bison out and of all the characters has the tools best suited to do that.

Keep throwing jab booms. Bison can't really jump at you. As you know you Guile's air throw is evil. Best air throw in the game as of the 5 characters in the game with an air throw Guiles has the most range. But even worse he has crouching hard punch. This is your go to anti air normal. It doesn't need charge and Bisons floaty jump gives you plenty of time to hit him.

Kills nearly everything Bison does in the air. It beats all Bisons jumping normals any range includng Bisons jumping mk cross up. It also beats normal headstomp and devils reverse as well.

At some angles it will even trade with Bison's jumping fierce but it doesn't let Bison in and Guiles still at no major disadvantage. It will also loose to deep cross jumping hard kick (thanks Blag) and ex.stomp. Also a correctly spaced empty jump could allow Bison to sneak in.

Bison can't use Headstomp, its not quick enough to hit Guile after he Booms and leaves him open to punishment. Simply walk back and punish or air throw or c.hp.

Bisons other options for getting in are ex.psycho crusher and ex.scissors, but he has to be very close (a third of the screen away to punish Guile) so they are not as effective against Guile as they are against shoto's. Of course he needs meter to do them which he can't build too effectively against Guile.

That leaves Bison with focus attack dashing through the Booms. Guile merely need spam any number of normals to hit Bison out of it once he gets close. Medium Kick, back + hard punch, foward + hard punch.

So what if Bison decides to spam devils reverse at full screen to build meter.
Time a slow sonic boom so Bison has to land less than full screen away between the boom and Guile, Guile can dash foward and sweep him out of his recovery phase. He can also time an ex.sonic boom when Bison is landing from the devils reverse. If Bison tries to hit Guile with the DP, c.hp or focus attack it.

Finally Bison starts neutral jumping the Booms, obviously mixing up the speed of the Booms can mess him up. But if he does a close neutral jump dash under him and c.hp to stuff him out of it.

Close Range.
If Bison gets in on you did something wrong, you have lost your advantage but your at no major disadvantage. Bison needs to keep Guile on his back. Cross him up, mix up the block strings and tick throws and look to bait flash kicks.

Guile doesn't have an answer to cross ups outside Bison being tardy with one of his cross up or direct jump ins and Guile landing an ultra. You basically have to work on your close range game and learn to sit through block strings and tech correctly.

Bisons c.short comes in 3 frames as opposed to Guiles 4 frames of start up. Its +1 on block so it does leave a very small window (2 frames) for Guile to flash kick Bison out of the string. Bison can miss links on purpose and just stop his string in an effort to bait out a flash kick and punish though.

Bisons close lp gives Bison the most frame advantage on block +4. He normall uses that after a cross up for tick throwing. You can't do too much against that.

Flash kick comes out in 4 frames and has a few invunrability frames. The EX version has better invunrability frames. They beat Bisons scissors kick so you just need a lucky guess to knock Bison out of his scissor pressure or one of his pokes. It is of course a risk, miss and your going eat c.mp xx hk scissors. Also after blocking a light scissors kick where Bison can't tick into c.lk Guile can throw a light Boom to beat any of Bisons pokes or scissors.

If Bison tries headstomp mix up in the corner dash foward out of it. If you knock Bison down, he probably won't ex.psycho out of pressure as he normally does as that would merely reset the screen for you.

You can also gamble after blocking a scissors that Bison will jump in or do another scissors in which case you can do a risky jump to counter it. A neutral jump could catch Bisons scissors and set you up a combo into c.mp xx flash kick. Jumping is risky as Bison might simply hit you out of it with his roundhouse or worse j.mpx2 into ultra.

If Bison walks directly up for a meaty attack or tries to bait a flash kick or he just wants to throw you and you have 2 bars of meter, flash kick FADC for a safe wake up option.

General Info

Finally as a general rule of thumb don't use Guile sweep outside of combo's its horrid and will get you in alot of trouble. You can be ultra out of the second sweep or ex.scissors or c.lk or c.mk or focused attacked.

If Bison attempts to ex.psycho through you and he wasn't point back range when he attempted it, flash kick to punish. Bisons Ultra is punishable with flashkick always.

Guile has a very skinny hitbox meaning Bison can normally only do 3xc.lk xx scissors as opposed to 4x.clk unless he lands a non cross up jumping mk.

Bison can only really turtle if he has a massive health lead. In which case he can run down the clock by neutral jumping booms and blocking.

The long and the short of it is at close range its pretty even. You just need practise at defending cross ups and tech throws and being patient and learn to read you opponent.

Here are some good example matchs of how to approach this match. Featuring some of the best if not the best Bison (TUC the highest rated Bison player in Japan) failing badly at this match.

English commentary with the match up explained

Azza

Leimr0d wrote:

Akuma v Bison

So far all I know is walk back, attempt something, eat 3 head stomps, KO. Any additional tips on how to die slower would be appreciated

As Sagat06 said. When in corner walk back or dash back, when he lands let rip with s.hk, c.lp, lk,tatsu, hp dragon punch and if you have meter fadc into red fireball for a pretty massive punish.

Basically you have to be weary when Bison is charging down back a full screen away. You need to be carefull when throwing fireballs. Red fireballs are a liability as they take too long and get you stomped. Normal and ex fireballs should allow you to dash back or jump back hp if Bison does a headstomp on reaction to the fireball. Bison has to headstomp pre-emptively to be sure of a hit. He gets this this pre-emptive hit which he gets from players who just throw fireballs in a pattern or got suckered into a pattern.

Remember if Bison is standing he can't headstomp you, so you know its safe at full screen to throw a fireball.

If Bison is devils reversing between the fireballs he won't have time to pre-empt your fireball with a headstomp.

But a sneaky Bison can switch to backwards teleport with buffered charge after a devils reverse to allow a fireball to pass through him and change the timing enough to give him the time needed to pre-empt a fire ball with headstomp.

If your worried about full screen Devils Reverse and Headstomp mix up don't be. Remeber at full screen away jump back hard puch/kick even when you in the corner will beat any of his options. You will hit a headstomp even an ex version and set up a combo and his devils reverse can't hit you as it only travels 4/5th of the screen at max range. Do not attempt to DP in this situation. You can also backwards teleport into the corner to makes his stomp whiff and punish the recovery frames with a combo of your choice.

Its more dangerous when Bison is close and your in the corner. If he attempts to stomp you on wake up either block it or if you have time teleport out or dash out. Neutral jump and jump back here doesn't work on headstomp because the angle of the headstomp has changed although it can still miss and leave Bison open. Watch out for empty devils reverse mix ups.

Finally while the headstomp particularly the ex.verion is godly in an air to air situation beating most normal air moves its not a dedicated anti air move. And its only godly against forward jumping opponents not neutral jumping or backwards jumping opponent. Usually when a stomp knocks you out of a foward jump its merely a coincidence that you happened to jump when he wanted to headstomp not that he was planing to anti air you with it. Air tatsu will normally but not always beat both versions of headstomp.

General info
Akuma has several garunteed Demons.

Blocked close slide = Super or Ultra
Blocked far slide = Super
Blocked Psycho Crusher = Super or Ultra *(small chance ex.pyscho crusher at full screen can be safe and a correctly spaced light psycho crusher can be safe but 99/100 they won't be)
Incorrectly spaced medium hard, or ex.scissors = Super or Ultra
Devils Reverse whiff (anywhere on screen) = Ultra
Either normal or ex Headstomp = back dash Ultra
Blocked close ex.pyscho crusher = Ultra (free ultra after he crosses to the other side)
Wake up teleport = Ultra

Once Akuma gets ultra all Bisons specials bar light scissors kick are unsafe and highly risk.
Apply cross ups, and vortex pressure to Bison on his wake up. Mix it up.
Bison is totally and utterly garbage on wake up without meter, go nuts on him if you get the chance.
Don't leave the barn door open. Correctly time your air firballs after the apex of your jump to avoid leaving a gap and getting ex.psycho crushered.
Use the block stun your air fireballs to mix up between your c.mk and c.hk as well as your overhead.
Blocked and whiff slides are good way to land your roundhouse and set up a high damaging combo.
C.mk xx fireball is a decent counter poke.
Do not get predictable with flip kicks, they are possibly Bisons best opportunity in the whole game to land j.mpx2 into ultra.
Teleport can get you out of cross ups, Bison can keep up the pressure though as his dash is pretty good.
Normally shoto zoning game of ground fireballs and dp works but watch out for neutral jumping players who buffer charge to ex.scissors through the next fireball.
Bison takes a big risk if he tries to meaty attack Akuma with an ultra. Where as Akuma has several safe meaty attacks (c.lp or c.lk) regardless of what Bison has with either meter.

Like against Guile once Bison gets in he doesn't really want to let Akuma get way. Like the other shoto's Bison wants to put you in a corner where his superior footsies dominate. Against Akuma he doesn't have to fear a DP setting up an ultra so he can be quite offensive.

Both characters are pretty good at running away if they have a life lead though.

FoamyMushroom

L31mr0d wrote: »

Akuma v Bison

So far all I know is walk back, attempt something, eat 3 head stomps, KO. Any additional tips on how to die slower would be appreciated

Ya gotta try bait the ex stomps out...Cause it wastes meter..

With akuma v Bison

ya dont wana get very fireball happy cause the head stomp will just own you!!!

If you time it right after a stomp a bison player will realized its not gonna hit then do that purple hand thingy (Dont know the name of it lol sorry xD). Once you seen them do that, you try and EX demon flip in over that so when he hits the ground you'll be there trying to get him on finishing frames. With bison its all baiting tatics with Akuma you wana keep your distance aswell. If you manage to get toe to toe with him wana keep all your links perfect because Bisons light kick has range and can be easily linked into a EX scissors kick which is a knock down and thats something you wana avoid is getting knocked down by Bison.. Theres no ways of landing an Ultra on him cause most bison players wont normally jump in unless its a cross-up knee..

Good way to get around him is to keep linking into combo's even if blocked, throw a random Fadc here and there because after nearly every shoto's combos is a fireball, a fadc after a fireball with catch them off guard, where you can do the combo with a Akuma to standing hard kick etc etc... Thers alot more to add but if ya really wana know pm me xD


Plus im up for sharing anything with Akuma

Owwmykneecap

Vega vs Blanka: don't use any special moves. cry.

Ramza

Hey Azza, what do you think of the Ken - Bison matchup? I think it's a matchup I need work on plus I don't get to face many good Bisons at all. So yeah I know we only played once but maybe we can play more in the future! I know you're having troubling adapting on Xbox though

Anyway, I realised that the SJ/ambiguous j.RH/fierce seemed to work a lot on Bison (or maybe I was just getting lucky?). I tried kara throwing after a blocked scissor kick attempt since nothing else is really useful in that situation, but my kara throw got beaten a lot so I take it after a blocked scissor kick the best thing is to sit there? And for the devils reverse I got the message that SRKing is a big no no?

Ken B

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Vega vs Blanka: don't use any special moves. cry.

Nah, Blanka's OK. As long as you aren't fighting an elite player.....

Azza

Ramza wrote:

Hey Azza, what do you think of the Ken - Bison matchup? I think it's a matchup I need work on plus I don't get to face many good Bisons at all. So yeah I know we only played once but maybe we can play more in the future! I know you're having troubling adapting on Xbox though

Anyway, I realised that the SJ/ambiguous j.RH/fierce seemed to work a lot on Bison (or maybe I was just getting lucky?). I tried kara throwing after a blocked scissor kick attempt since nothing else is really useful in that situation, but my kara throw got beaten a lot so I take it after a blocked scissor kick the best thing is to sit there? And for the devils reverse I got the message that SRKing is a big no no?

To me the match up looks fairly even.

Generally speaking Kens zoning game is weaker than Ryu's.

His fireball is slower to recover.
His DP while doing more damage if it fully connects does less when its used as anti air as it does not fully connect.
Anti air Light DP doesn't set up an ultra or even a full ex.fireball.
He can still zone if wants to and its still a viable option, it just doesn't pay the same dividends that it does for Ryu. Against Bison he is probably better served going on the offensive and trying to out footsie Bison on the ground.

Ken's got too great pokes c.mk xx fireball and forward mk are good tools to play footsies with Bison.

The pressure game.

Score a known down and pressure Bison with safe jumps and ambigious cross ups. If Ken lands a jump in or cross up he is inline to score alot of damage off his combo. If the jump is blocked mix up your block strings and kara throw to keep the pressure on.

Know Bisons wake up options and learn Kens option select.

Bisons wake up options are as follows.
Block.
Ex.Psycho Crusher.
Ex.Scissors Kick.
Ex.Devils Deverse
Ex.Headstomp
Backwards teleport.
Forwards teleport.

If he blocks then mix up a block string and kara throw or attempt to cross him up again.

An option select Ex.Shoryuken should stuff all of Bisons reversal attempts bar teleport. Bisons teleport will leave Bison safe if you use option select ex.shoryuken and he can potentially punish you. If you do a option select tatsu you will beat his backwards teleport. If Bison does forwards teleport to Kens option select tatsu then both players are safe. An option select tatsu can be beaten by an ex.devil reverse though. Of course if you simply don't do an option select and Bison forward teleports you can own him for free and if he does a backwards teleport you can dash after him and pressure him.

Knockdown are critical for both characters and Bison has a safe jump for Ken too. Learn to spot it so you know how to react accordingly (block it).

General info
Forward + medium kick is a good poke for Ken use it to get in. It can be hard to punish or even force a block from Ken if its used at max range. Its only -2 on block. Bison doesn't have anything quick enough to punish it. He will probably throw out his 3 frame c.lp, this will beat Ken if he does anything other than block or shoryuken. This assumes Bison is in range to use his c.lp.

Normal tatsu's are unsafe on block but ex.tatsu is only -3 on block which means Bison has to be on point to punish it.

This starts a guessing game for both players.
Bison does a perfectly timed c.lk, beats all options.
Bison does a imperfectly timed c.lk which will probably beat all Kens options bar 2, Ken either blocks and Bisons starts a blocks string or does a shoryuken beating Bison clean.
Bison does ex.psycho crusher. This passes safely through Ken on block, beats any normal move or throw attempts. Looses to ex.shoryuken.
Bison blocks. Baits shoryuken and punishes. But if Ken goes for a throw he gets Bison.
Bison teleports. Safe option but if Ken does another tatsu he can nail Bison.

In anwser to your question about trying to DP a Devils Reverse, don't the Devils Reverse is designed to counter a DP.

Scissor Kick Pressure
As for what to do after blocking a scissors. Remember a light scissors is 0 frames on block and Bison has a crouching light kick out in 3 frames and 2 standing pokes out in 6. Since throws take 3 frames it would be very difficult to beat out Bisons c.lk.

After a scissors Bison like to tick into a another scissors kick. But after he does this second scissors kick he isn't in range to do the c.lk tick again. So again its back to the extended game of rock paper scissors.

Bison can straight away do another scissors which you can stuff with c.mp or shoryuken.
Bison can walk back a bit and then do a scissors kick to stuff Kens c.mp or c.mk. Still looses to a random shoryuken.
You can neutral jump either scissors kick and set up a big combo and potentially his ultra.
You could jump out over the scissors kick.
Bison can use his pokes (s.mk or s.hk). Thesey loose to a shoryuken but also c.mk xx fireball should beat them as well. These will stuff most other pokes and s.hk kills any neutral jumps or attempted jump outs or attempted jumping attacks.
If Ken neutral jumps and Bisons sees it coming its 2xj.mp into ultra.
Kens c.mk looses to scissors kick (it goes over it).
Bison can ex.scissors to stuff any counter pokes from Ken but it still looses to shoryuken and is unsafe on block.
Bisons dashes in for a block string or throw. Ken can do any number of things here.
Bison does nothing and attempts to bait a shoryuken and punish accordingly.
Jump in at Ken or attempt to cross him up. Another wealth of options open for Ken to counter that.
Ken can attempt to air tatsu out and reset the screen.

With Bisons block strings into scissors Ken can or course attempt a reversal DP during the block string, but if the Bison player know you like to attempt such a reversal he could be baiting Ken into the reversal by missing links on purpose.

Bison likes nothing better than putting a shoto in a corner and applying some "Offical Bison Pressure right here!". Ken is no different but Ken can give as good as he takes in this match.

Ramza

Great post Azza, lemme get to work on it!

Leprekaun

Anyone I use Vs. Azza's Bison please? I got destroyed last night. I think the win ratio was 1:10 (Me:Azza)



And for anyone else, anyone know of any my obvious weakpoints?

@Azza: I thought I'd chip in saying that I noticed that about 8 or 9 times out of 10, after I would do a c.mk, hadouken, you would do a move so I could counter it easily with a LP DP.

Oh and whats the story with the "xx" between combos? Does it stand for a soft porn break in between moves? (or would that be mediumcore? Meh, I go xxx so I don't care)

Ramza

"xx" means cancel so c.mk xx hadoken is crouching forward into hadoken

lazlo

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Great idea. I'm also up for it

Guile vs Bison

lol I'd only read the thread title and this was the first matchup that sprang to mind!!!

Cunny-Funt

I've not a clue about match ups and planned to get into learning them to up my game but learning stick has stopped all that and now I'm stuck trying to catch up to the level I used to be.

Fantastic idea for a thread and imo this should be stickied. :cool:

Doctor DooM

lazlo wrote: »

lol I'd only read the thread title and this was the first matchup that sprang to mind!!!

From which point of view?

I'd be fairly successful with the Guile/ Bison fight. Azza's covered most of it though, worryingly enough as he's bison, not a Guile player

Azza

Leprekaun wrote:

Anyone I use Vs. Azza's Bison please? I got destroyed last night. I think the win ratio was 1:10 (Me:Azza)

And for anyone else, anyone know of any my obvious weakpoints?

Stop spamming tatsu's for a start. Bison can c.mp for free or roundhouse them. Ryu's regular ground tatsu should not be used outside of combo's.

Dreddybajs

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I've not a clue about match ups and planned to get into learning them to up my game but learning stick has stopped all that and now I'm stuck trying to catch up to the level I used to be.

The two are in no way mutually exclusive man, if anything most of my matchup knowledge comes from watching match videos and reading. Obviously the basic matchup strategy is pretty easy to figure out from playing though.

DarkTalant

Any one got any tips re what to do against dhalsim as boxer?
Kirby demolished me at the last ranbat...

K.O.Kiki

Only things I can think of:

• Focus the limbs, not the fireballs.
• Watch for cross-up teleport. I think you can headbutt for free if he does it.
• Use your superior Jabs & Sweep.

Eh, I don't play Boxer anyway.

Sagat06

I know it seems silly but block opposite side to Sim on his crossup not whichever his fireball is on... took me too long to figure that one out :rolleyes:

lazlo

Doctor DooM wrote: »

From which point of view?

I'd be fairly successful with the Guile/ Bison fight. Azza's covered most of it though, worryingly enough as he's bison, not a Guile player

From the point of view of a bruised dictator :P I tend to just try rushing him down and crossing up with a flurry of LKs, MKs, LPs and L Scissors when possible. It has a low success rate though

Cunny-Funt

Dreddybajs wrote: »

The two are in no way mutually exclusive man, if anything most of my matchup knowledge comes from watching match videos and reading. Obviously the basic matchup strategy is pretty easy to figure out from playing though.

Didnt wanna clutter this v. good thread, so I replied (and bitched ) here http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63871971#post63871971

Doctor DooM

lazlo wrote: »

From the point of view of a bruised dictator :P I tend to just try rushing him down and crossing up with a flurry of LKs, MKs, LPs and L Scissors when possible. It has a low success rate though

I'll give you a few hints tonight when I can sit down and construct it properly.

BanjoB

Anyone got advice on the chun vs balrog match. It's the one that hurts me the most!!.

Doctor DooM

Ok Azza covered nearly everything so here's my advice for a Bison fighting Guile.

1) Don't get trapped in a corner with no EX. Whatever you do. Guile's got an awesome high low throw game and if you don't have an Ultra or EX scissors you're playing a 1 in 3 guessing game.

2) Be aware of Bison's jump. It's 40 frames which makes it even easier than usual for Guile to pop up and catch you out of the air. Also Guile's cr FP is good AA. Be unpredictable in when you jump and your timing for attacks while doing it because if you stuff the airthrow a couple of times the Guile player will switch to CrFP. This is probably the most imprtant thing for fighting Guile- don't let him zone you.

3) Keep Guile in block string if you can. He'll be looking for an opening (usually for EX flash, or cr mp xx flash). Keep it mixed up and unpredicatable.

4) Whatever you do DON'T rely on head stomp.

The Sonic boom is not like other projectiles. It's 29 frames from when it leaves Guile's hand til he can move again, and that's plenty of time for him to walk back and punish with a sweep. This is not good. Also if he predicts he can Air throw you out of the stomp.

EX stomp is alot harder to handly but still throwable.

5) If Guile backs off 2 or so paces and booms, he is suckering you in. Don't do a scissors kick or you will eat flash.

Here's a playlist of myself and a certain dictator kicking the cack out each for for around ten fights.

It was a while ago so we've both learned alot but it could be useful as he finds loads of ways around Guiles usual stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EC35916B9DCF2A12

A-Trak

Azza/Doom,

If either of you want to spill your guts on the Guile/Bison vs. Honda matchup as both characters give me a hard time & have knocked me out of tournies lately, (And by both characters, I mean you two)

Oh and if anyone wants a low down on Honda gimmicks let me know.

Azza

Honda is bad match for Bison. Its also one of the worst matches in the game to spectate if the two players play it correctly. Total and utter turtle fest.

So why is not a good match for Bison.

Honda Advantages
The Fatman has 100 more health than Bison.
The Fatman general damage output is higher than Bisons.
The Fatmans Headbutt trades win against all versions of Scissor Kick and Psycho Crusher.
The Fatmans c.jab shuts down Bisons Scissors Kick at close range.
The Fatman has 2 safe Headbutts light punch and the ex version.
The Fatman has much better anti air options than Bison. Standing hard punch, neutral jumping hard punch, and ex.headbutt.
The Fatman prevents Bison building meter with devil reverse spam as he can hard punch headbutt Bison every time when he is landing from his Devils Revsere.
The Fatmans foward jumping hard punch trade wins against Bisons s.hk anti air.
The Fatmans options are much more powerful when he gets in than Bisons. Ticks into Ochi, HHS into s.hk, 4xc.lk xx hard punch headbutt.

Bison Advantages
On the bright side for Bison he has emmmm superior mobility.
With meter he has a better answer for cross ups than Honda.
Slightly better pokes.


The Match Up
General plan for both players is too play turtle style, look for some safe pokes get a life lead and then turtle up even more. The more offensive you are in this match the more an advantage you give the opponent, overall though when both characters are standing, Honda's offense and defense are better than Bisons. Since neither character has a fireball neither character can force the other to move, so its going be a case of looking for a safe poke and hoping you can provoke the wrong response for you opponent and punish more. Get a knock down and pressure your opponent.

Honda Offense
Honda will want to use his safe headbutts to try and knock Bison down for good damage. If Bisons blocks the worst he can do is chip you back with lk scissors. A trade against anything Bison has is in Honda's favor. Honda can try directly jumping at Bison to land one of his jumping hard punch and hard kicks into HHS into hard kick or a mix up into Ochio. Its a calculated risk as Bison can potentially anti air you with roundhouse. If you score a knockdown, pressure Bison on his wake up with cross ups or direct jump ins. Bison is very bad waking up without meter so you can also try meaty attacking him if he doesn't have any. Bison with meter does have access to alot of reversal though so you need to know what he can do. Generally speaking Buttslams are not that good for Honda on Offense, while they are all safe on block (bar the hard to punish hard punch version) they are not hard to see coming and punishable with focus attack. If you get a reasonable life lead back off and turtle. Bison without meter in the corner has no options on wake up to anything you can do but block.

Honda Defense
If Bison is turtling, use ochio throw and light hhs to build meter. But be careful if he is setting down back as the long recovery times could get you headstomped. Best to do this if you know Bison has committed to doing his own meter building or doesn't have charge.
Bison will try to poke and chip you for an opening. Again your looking to counter his pokes and stuff with your safe headbutts and c.jab. If Bison attempts to build meter with devils reverse at full screen fire off hard punch headbutt to hit on his recovery. Bison has better pokes but honda s.hk is a good poke of its own.

Bisons jump is floaty so its pretty easy to anti air. You have 3 options, standing hard punch. Neutral jumping Hard Punch or the godly ex.headbutt. Use these to keep his jumps at bay. Neutral jump hard punch beats all Bisons normal air options.

Its easy to Honda to deal with Bisons headstomp both the normal and regular versions. At full screen neutral jump hard punch or jump back hard punch will beat both versions of stomp everytime. The only way the headstomp will beat neutral jumping hard punch is if Bison does the move very close to you and the angel of attack is from above Honda. In any event Honda can always use a timed ex.headbutt to beat the headstomp clean, including on wake up. He also has the option of ex. butt slam to beat ex.stomp on wake up (regular butt slam will loose). Basically ex.headbutt is godly anti air for Honda and will beat any direct jump in or non cross up attack Bison has. The worst case scenario is that he forces a safe block from Bison. Its also a bulletproof options to deal with ground pressure on wake up, as it will either stuff any meaty or throw attempts or force a block which is safe. Honda has always a way of dealing with meaty attacks as his regular butt slam has invunrability frames meaning he can use it to counter any meaty attack and force a safe block. However if the oppnent sees it coming he could focus attack the butt slam.

Hondas one area of weakness in defense is cross ups. The cross up will break the charge for ex.headbutt unless its late and I believe both normal and ex.versions of butt slam will get Honda out of the cross up but leave him open to punishment when he lands. So he can only really stay and block and look to tech the throw or get a reversal out during a missed linked.

If Bison corners you and you don't have meter or you don't have charge and he tries to stomp you or particularly ex.stomp you, just block and take the chip damage.


Bison Offense
Bison wants to stay at max s.mk poking range. At this range he can out poke Honda's normals and stuff normal headbutts on start up. Its also the right range to knock Honda's jump ins out at start up with s.hk.
He needs to get a knock down somewhere to start some cross up pressure. Direct jump ins are bad against Honda but once you get the knockdown cross up and pressure.
If Honda is neutral jump hard punch happy he can dash and roundhouse him.
If Bison gets a life lead he should turtle and look to punish mistakes.

Bison Defense
Bison has to be careful how he builds meter. Light Kick scissors is only option but that isn't totally safe. Everything else is very unsafe.
Bison really only has s.hk to deal with jump ins and he needs to be correctly positioned to avoid a trade. Either hit them out of the start up of the jump or be at the 11 o clock position (if your on the left hand side of the screen) to tag the rear end of Honda's jump to knock him back. Bison has a lot of ways out of a knockdown, namely ex.psycho (for direct jumps in and meaty attacks) and teleport (for cross ups assuming he is not in a corner). Again he can use these for safe-ish wake up options assuming he has meter. If Honda does land a move to start a block string then Bison has to be alert for Ochio throws. If Honda does a regular butt slam on Bison as he wakes ex.stomp can counter it but generally Bison doesn't want to use ex.devils reverse, ex.stomp or ex.scissors on wake up as they are not safe.


General Notes
Neither character has much chance of landing their ultra.
Bison can punish Honda's super with c.mk xx whatever. 1 Frame link.
He can punish Honda's ultra with his own ultra.
Honda can only punish Bisons ultra with his own ultra when Bison crosses him up very late during the block stun. Honda's ultra will auto correct if this happens. Ex.Butt slam is a good punish for Bisons ultra on block.
If Bison perfroms ex.psycho crusher point blank beside Honda its safe on block. But if Honda blocks it further back he can Ex.Butt Slam Bison back.
MP and HP headbutts are punishable on block. But the link is quite tight again.
The tip of Devils Reverse beats Headbutt but its very rare that this scenario will occur.
Bisons Jump back hard punch is good to deal with Headbutts but it doesn't set up a combo, it merely does a reset.

Retr0gamer

Not exactly match up advice but does anyone have advice on how to do FADC ultra's? I've tried it in training mode. I can FADC out of the srk but I just can't get the ultra off. I usually have trouble getting off an ultra on it's own when I try to do it fast so I think the timing might just be too strict for me.

D4RK ONION

Are you using a stick or pad? As soon as you enter the m.p and m.k, you should input the dash and the 2xQCF, even if you're not finished the dash animation. Then insert the punchs input. Does that make sense/help? The best way to practice is to just FADC a srk in training mode without the ultra over and over.

Retr0gamer

Yeah it makes sense. I'm using a stick. I think I should train on not ressing against the restrictor plate as well to help my input timing. Think I just need more training.

A-Trak

Cheers Azza, great advice there.

chopperbyrne

You're probably just like me so. You are doing it too fast and screwing up the motion.

Go into training mode and do it SLOW.

Make sure you have input reports on so you can see what you're inputting.

You'll probably notice that you can do two QCFs slow no problem.

Now do it at normal game speed and notice that you (probably) are hitting 3P after down-forward and not forward.

People will blame input shortcuts for anything in this game when it's normally just poor execution (not a dig at you) that's causing it.

Keep practising slow double QCFs until you have the motion down.

Now start speeding it up.

You'll notice that it doesn't have to be done anywhere near as fast as you think.

Once you've got the speed down then start practising the SRKxxFADC.

Just the SRKxxFADC.

Once you've got that, then link the proper speed and execution Ultra motion on to the end of it.

Basically, practice makes perfect.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Not exactly match up advice but does anyone have advice on how to do FADC ultra's? I've tried it in training mode. I can FADC out of the srk but I just can't get the ultra off. I usually have trouble getting off an ultra on it's own when I try to do it fast so I think the timing might just be too strict for me.

Cunny-Funt

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Not exactly match up advice but does anyone have advice on how to do FADC ultra's? I've tried it in training mode. I can FADC out of the srk but I just can't get the ultra off. I usually have trouble getting off an ultra on it's own when I try to do it fast so I think the timing might just be too strict for me.

I had to tackle this again recently when I started learning stick. This is piss easy to do on a d-pad although its far more likley to run into getting that short cut ex SRK on d-pad also. I've noticed since getting stick this happens far far less.

My issue with the stick came from it being much slower for me to input double FB motions from the left hand side (p1 side) of the screen. I had no issues from the p2 side, so maybe try that in regards to learning the timing but I dunno you're probably well used to the stick by now.

I've not much else to add on what chopper and dark onion have said, just practice really, dash and input that double FB motion.

I dunno I enter it in as fast as I can though. What happenes anyway when you try it? does ryu just stand there, or will a normal srk come out or will the ultra come out just far too slow?

I'd also maybe try going into training mode and just practice ultraing/supering over and over as fast as you can, then fadcing over and over, then join the two. This is what I did to get better at left hand side FADC ultraing on stick and I've gone from not being able to do that at all from p1 side to getting it about 60%+ of the time.

Doctor DooM

Got to be honest A-trak, I generally love seeing a Honda coming. The tier list puts it at 6-4 in Guile's favour but I think it should be a 7-3. The tools which make Guile difficult for Bison make him a bit of a nightmare for Honda.

Again I am no Azza but I'll do my best.

First to note something which don't fit in else where.

Honda's jump is 37 frames in the air. That's only one frame more than the average character but thats enough to make a noticable difference for me personally when you're used to fighting Blankas, etc. A jump happy Honda is a simple win.

Also note that yes, you can stuff Guile sometimes with the HP, but also you are extending your hit box into air throw range if you time it wrong.

Use jumps wisely!

What Guile wants in this game is to back off and boom you into oblivion, waiting for you to jump so he can land an air throw to reset.

Most Honda games I have fought never get beyond this point. It is difficult but it is most certainly not impossible to get around.

Alot of Honda's tricks to get round hadokens won't work on Guile. Guile is not a shoto. If you try a quick ex headbutt and Guile has charge, you are likely to still eat boom. If you splash, Guile will be free of the boom frames long before you hit the earth, and his sweep kills from range (or even worse, you may end up eating cmp xx ex fk for a rare Guile punisher).

There's a couple of ways around this though.

You need to learn to jump earlier over the boom so you'll stay out of throw range. That forces the Guile player to make a choice

1) He can try and jump on reaction and mk /hk you out of the air. Risky as that bloody j hp of Honda's might be on it's way. Even if Guile does connect, an ex headbutt will close the distance after.

2) He can sit back and keep charging the next boom. This will give you a few valuable frames to advance. Look for an opening to land something quick on Guile (maybe standing hk?).

This requires patience. It may take 3 or 4 rounds of booms before a Guile player gives you a usable opening. Remember though it takes Guile 55 frames to charge and 38 to actually do a move. In the best case scenario thats a sonic boom every 93 frames (precharging may reduce this slightly). An opening will come.

Secondly, you can simply FADC through a boom. This has it's own risks as if Guile learns it you'll end up eating spinning back fist after it.

Then you have the neutral jump hp. This advances you slightly.

So of course the answer is to mix these three options up (maybe thowing in the VERY odd ex splash) to advance on Guile.

The other area where Guile makes life miserable for Honda is the corner. Now most other characters have options to stop Guile dead when he has them corner trapped but Honda's are very weak if the Guile knows how to apply pressure properly.

Most Guile's will boom as you wake up.

If he does this standing over you-headbutt, sumo splash, or ultra. and he bloody deserves it.

However a cleverer Guile will back off and give himself some breathing room before firing the boom. This is an ultra bait but also keeps him safe pretty much any counter in the game.

The trick here is to take the chip from the boom and react to what comes next. Stay calm, block him and react.

Guile has 4 or 5 options.

1) Sweep.

Block the first one and cmp before the second. I think you can combo to headbutt? If you block both be aware Guile can have both specials charged by the time he comes out of them.

2) Throw. Guile may simply walk in and try to throw you, resetting the corner trap. Tech then headbutt to end the corner trap.

3) Overhead. Good move for Guile but very slow. Not sure how you counter after it, but you're a big boy and I am sure you'll work something out.

4) Target combo. Smart arse Guile. Don't forget to block low then high.

5) The crossup. No one expects it from Guile. His j wk is a crossup. It's not going to be hugely damaging and it'll end the corner trap so you won't see much of this. Just be aware it's there, and hopefully if the Guile is on autopilot he'll fire out a flash kick for you to punish.


From the other side, you have these advantages on Guile:

1) Guile stuns relatively easy (900). A couple of serious smacks from Honda can put the entire round in danger.

2) The borked nature of the FK means that Guile has trouble with a wake up cross up splash game. Even the focus as a defence seems to go the wrong ay 50% of the time. Usually a flash will send him veering off in the wrong directon.

3) The flash is really punishable on whiff. Try to bait it.

4) Sweep is punishable between 1st and second strikes. Bear in mind if you're trying anything clever that messing up a focus attack as a counter eats up a quarter of your life bar as 2 sweeps land for full damage.

5) If a Guile does do a sonic boom close, EX splash is a great option as it damages and sets up a wake up splash game.

Thats all I can think of right now.

Here's an ooold match between me and Chopper where he got me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PClwwWIBVg

Some good Honda/ Guile matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zABlOb1mYBs

Dreddybajs

Honda's jump is 37 frames in the air. That's only one frame more than Guile but thats enough to make a noticable difference for me personally.

What?! How could that make a noticeable difference?

Doctor DooM

Dreddybajs wrote: »

What?! How could that make a noticeable difference?

Can't speak to every Guile but I'm able to air throw Blankas and Gens on reaction. A few extra frames can makes a big difference. Honda ( and Gief for that matter) I can air throw with ease.

Dreddybajs

Fair enough man, but I doubt that has anything to do with Guile spending 1/20th of a second longer in the air.

Doctor DooM

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Fair enough man, but I doubt that has anything to do with Guile spending 1/20th of a second longer in the air.

Nope it's to do with having extra time than you're used to. Even a tiny bit leaves an extra margin for error.

EDIT: Just reread what I wrote there, I getcha. Bad wording on my part. No of course 1 frame difference between the characters doesn't change much at all.

ayjayirl

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Fair enough man, but I doubt that has anything to do with Guile spending 1/20th of a second longer in the air.

Yeh, it doesn't but the fact that it is a hack does =p

Dreddybajs

For Leimrod:

Akuma vs Zangief

I can only talk about this matchup from the Zangief perspective really as I have no experience playing as Akuma, just talk about what I see Akuma players doing vs. me.

Basically, this whole matchup is Zangief walking across the screen at Akuma, and Akuma keeping away with ground and air fireballs. Air fireballs are better at closer range (half screen and closer), especially if the Zangief has meter, as it's easy to react with EX hand and get the knockdown (and being knocked down vs Zangief is the worst place Akuma can be - the health difference combined with Gief's damage output means that a couple of knockdowns should mean a lost round for Akuma).

Zangief can only use PPP lariat (the slower one) vs air fireballs, as his head doesn't have invincibility during KKK lariat and he'll still get hit. If you're close enough, and the Zangief does PPP lariat vs a late air fireball, you should be able to EX demon flip kick into combo. This is one of the few times you should be even going for a combo vs Gief, as if you mess it up you're very likely to get SPD'd. Most of the time you're better off hitting with (eg.) far standing RH and then jumping back with an air fireball, or teleporting back, rather than trying to start a blockstring off it.

You use a lot less air fireballs than most Akumas I fight, and really it's one of his most important tools in the matchup, especially since gief has to green hand or lariat to proceed through them. I think you also need to start using reversal teleport on wakeup a lot more - it's definitely the best ground teleport in the game vs Zangief, since it's guaranteed to always put you at the other side of the screen, which is exactly where you want to be. I can't stress that part enough - if you want to win this matchup, you need to be zoning at all times. Gief has problems getting in easily vs Akuma (and also problems building meter compared to other matchups, due to air fireball beating KKK lariat, st. RH being able to punish lariat recovery, and Akuma's sweep being so fast).

Generally the way this matchup goes for me with an Akuma of equal skill is like this:

I spend 30 seconds trying to get in, slowly pushing the Akuma into the corner. By the time he's in the corner I've lost 1/3rd of my health and have gained one and a half stocks of EX meter. I manage to land a knockdown, but the Akuma gets out of the mixup afterwards and gets out of the corner, resetting the scenario. Either one of us could have a slight life lead at this stage. If it's the Akuma, repeat from start. If it's me, I have to start turtling and forcing the Akuma to get in closer to try and get the life lead. This range is a lot worse for Akuma since not many characters can win footsies with Gief, and you're now in the area where you can be hit out of nowhere by a jab SPD (if the Akuma just stays back and tries to chip me with fireballs or something, that's GG - I'll happily sit back and build meter and win by timeout).

Other things to note:

You can punish lariat recovery, blocked EX hand, blocked normal green hand, and normal green hand ON HIT with raging demon (ultra or super).

Unless you're playing a seriously top quality Gief (not counting myself among those ranks), you can be pretty sure they are going to get frustrated after a while and start getting reckless, wasting EX hands to get through air fireballs and gaining no advantage from it, or starting to use lariat at unsafe ranges, etc. etc (or maybe that's just me :pac:). If you're able to pick up on this you can start punishing hugely... just a case of having more patience than the other guy.

Azza

Sikso was asking me for advice about the Bison vs Ryu match up so here it is. Part of is copy and paste from the Ken match up post because alot of it applies to the Ryu match up

Ryu's pressure game.

Score a known down preferable from a throw and pressure Bison with safe jumps and ambigious cross ups. If you land a throw or a sweep where Bison can't fast recover then you should always always go for a safe jump. If you don't have time for one than just mix it up with cross ups, pokes and baiting.

Know Bisons wake up options and learn Ryu's option select.

Bisons wake up options are as follows.

Block.
Ex.Psycho Crusher.
Ex.Scissors Kick.
Ex.Devils Deverse
Ex.Headstomp
Backwards teleport.
Forwards teleport.

As you can see he is very heavily dependent on meter for reversals. With only block and teleport available to him without meter and only block when he no meter in the corner.


If he blocks your safe jump then mix up a block string and throw or attempt to cross him up again.

An option select ex.shoryuken should stuff all of Bisons air reversals and a escapes (i.e Headstomp and Devils Reverse). Bisons teleport will leave Bison safe if you use option select ex.shoryuken and he can potentially punish you. If you do a option select tatsu you will beat his backwards teleport. If Bison does forwards teleport to Ryu's option select tatsu then both players are safe. An option select tatsu can be beaten by an ex.devil reverse though. Of course if you simply don't do an option select and Bison forward teleports you can own him for free and if he does a backwards teleport you can dash after him and pressure him. You could do an ex.tatsu if you suspect Bison will try to ex.psycho or ex.scissor kick on wake up to beat him clean but you let him out if he teleports and he can beat you clean if he ex.stomps. Of course Ryu can FADC his option selected DP's into ultra for added carnage if he so wishes.

Knockdown are critical for both characters and Bison has a safe jump for Ryu too. Learn to spot it so you know how to react accordingly by blocking it or dashing forward. Bison can counter the dash forward by doing and unsafe jumping.mk.

A good tool against Bisons wake up ex.psycho which he likes to use on wake up to escape pressure is is ex.tatsu. Walk up to him while he is ground and he may think he can ex.psycho through your throw attempt only for him to be blasted back by ex.tatsu and if its in the corner he will eat ultra too. Ex.Tatsu is only -1 on block so its safe if he blocks it.

General info
Crouching medium kick is a great counter poke against Bison use it in footsie battles against Bison. It comes out in 7 frames just 1 frame slower than Bisons main 2 pokes s.mk and s.hk both of which come out in 6 frames. Its safe on block at -3 due to push back where Bison doesn't have anything quick enough to punish it. Its got less range than either of Bisons pokes but goes under Bisons s.hk and stuff it for free as the hit box of s.hk will not hit Ryu doing a c.mk and it also moves Bisons passive hitbox forward into the c.mk. It has slightly less range than Bisons s.mk but only very slightly. On the plus side it of course cancels into a fireball on hit where Bison can only hit with single pokes. Bisons Scissor Kick will go over Ryu's c.mk and beat it clean.

Ryus tatsu's with the exception of light kick tatsu are safe on block but the Ryu player won't want to use them outside of combo's as Bison can duck under them and c.mp for free or swat them down with his trusty roundhouse.

Bison has some good tools to deal with Ryu though. Ryu's need to be weary for neutral jumping Bisons who are buffering charge for ex.scissors to blow through there fireballs. Ryu's with super can cut Bisons ability to neutral jump out as if they attempt to neutral jump a normal fireball they eat super.

Also a good method for applying pressure to Ryu is double dashing in after scoring a light scissor kick knock and starting c.lk pressure. Ryu has only 2 options DP or block and this leads to mind games from both players.


Scissor Kick Pressure
As for what to do after blocking a scissors. Remember a light scissors is 0 frames on block and Bison has a crouching light kick out in 3 frames and 2 standing pokes out in 6. Since throws take 3 frames it would be very difficult to beat out Bisons c.lk.

After a scissors Bison like to tick into a another scissors kick from c.lk which can be stuffed by Ryu's DP if Ryu guesses right. But after he does this second scissors kick he isn't in range to do the c.lk tick again. So again its back to the extended game of rock paper scissors.

Bison can straight away do another scissors which you can stuff with c.lp c.mp or shoryuken.
Bison can walk back a bit and then do a scissors kick to stuff Ryu c.mp or c.mk. Still looses to a random shoryuken.
Ryu can neutral jump either scissors kick and set up a big combo and potentially his ultra.
Ryu could jump out over the scissors kick.
Bison can use his pokes (s.mk or s.hk). They loose to a shoryuken but also c.mk xx fireball should be a good coutner tool. These will stuff most other pokes and s.hk kills any neutral jumps or attempted jump outs or attempted jumping attacks.
Ryu could score a focus crumpe of a telegraphed poke and score massive damage with a big combo into ultra.
If Ryu neutral jumps and Bisons sees it coming its 2xj.mp into ultra.
If Ryu suspects Bison is going try his 2xj.mp into ultra Ryu can do j.mp into his own ultra and it will stuff Bisons attempt.
Ryu's c.mk looses to scissors kick (it goes over it).
Bison can ex.scissors to stuff any counter pokes from Ryu but it still looses to shoryuken and is unsafe on block.
Bisons dashes in for a block string or throw. Ryu can do any number of things here.
Bison does nothing and attempts to bait a shoryuken and punish accordingly.
Jump in at Ryu or attempt to cross him up. Another wealth of options open for Ryu to counter that.
Ryu can attempt to air tatsu out and reset the screen.

Bison is very strong once he gets Ryu into a corner where his superior normals and scissor kick pressure give Ryu difficulties. Ryu has to be patient and look for a way out usually with air tatsu. The big plus for Ryu is his ultra. He only needs to guess right once to score big damage off a focus crumple or DP FADC ultra.

With Bisons block strings into scissors Ryu can or course attempt a reversal DP during a c.lk block string as there is 2 frame gap for Ryu to get out and potentially score a FADC ultra., but if the Bison player know you like to attempt such a reversal he could be baiting Ryu into the reversal by missing links on purpose. Bison has a safe block string if you uses his c.lp though.

Sisko

Azza wants me to post this vid for him , I'll reply to the main post now in a bit, cheers for this azza.

Azza: at 1.14 you see ex.tatsu raping bisons ex.pyscho wake up

Azza: safe jumps at the end of the round from daigo
Azza: when he throws bison into the corner
Azza: the first one was safe bison just block

Sisko: jumps in with fierce punch?
Azza: the second time where ryu's gets ex.pyscho is because he option selected something
Azza: probably a regular dp that traded with ex.psycho

Azza: 36 seconds
Azza: safe jump to option select ex.tatsu
Azza: bison had no access to reversal
Azza: but if he did ex.psycho or ex.scissors he would of been beat clean
Azza: ex.stomp would of got bison out

Azza: 45 seconds in bison safe jump
Azza: except it aint
Azza: if he did jumping hp there it would be a safe jump
Azza: ryu's dp would whiff and bison could punish
Azza: instead he went for cross up and ended up trading
Azza: because of bisons super floaty jump its very easy for ryu to anti air dp him
Azza: even an empty jump

Sisko: you always tend to land behind me whan I try and aa Dp you
Sisko: hehe
Azza: yes because of safe jumps
Sisko: I see
Azza: everytime I throw you I attempted a safe jump
Azza: have to be precise against ryu as if your off dp will trade into ultra
Azza: still bisons best option
Azza: you can safe jump after you land ryu's ultra

Sisko

Azza: ugghhh
Azza: prepare to cream yourself
Azza: safe jump, option select dp into ultra
Azza: 1.11
Sisko: I gotta learn that **** god damn it

:pac:


Okay in reply to azza's main post. Big thanks man so much useful info there I'll read it over a good few times. Its unfortunate I wasn't actually recording our matches, would be a cool help in terms of point out things I did right wrong etc.

Also normally mid fight theres stuff that happens I'd be like "wtf how is that possible" etc but I can't remember now so maybe next time I'll get some games of us recorded.

Ex tatsu stuffing ex pshyo crusher is very interesting. As that was one thing that I was constantly wondering during our fight.

I was watching your meter closely , I was aware that you'd teleport if you had no meter and you'd generally ex psycho when you did. But I could never punish. My attempts at punishing would even end up with me being punished sometimes.

I think I got you with a feirce SRK once, but thats it.

The way you can use scissor kicks to fly under me when I go for cross ups, then hit me with pokes as a come down on the other side just makes me feel optionless sometimes.

As you said I use l.mk xx fireball fadc way too much but a lot of the time I feel its my only way to hit you.

I focus too much as well, I get a feeling somethings coming and instinctively focus and end up eating a scissors kick. A lot of Bisons pokes are annoyingly out of focus range also.

Its clear though that as I don't know safe jumps and option select that its really these things I need to learn to open things up for me.

I shall take you info and head to training mode and get some shit down.

Really wish I recorded our matches. Handy for stuff like this.

bush

Sisko wrote: »

Also normally mid fight theres stuff that happens I'd be like "wtf how is that possible"

Ye, same here. Bison is weird, awkward and annoying.

Shloer

Ok I've a quick question. Possibly a very noob question but it's something I've noticed I get stung by quite often.

Vega's Super. He jumps off the wall and lands on you with a series of throws.

I can never avoid it and always get hit by it. I'm sure there's some simple tactic to avoiding or stuffing it but I've no idea what it is?

Any help here? Thanks!

Dreddybajs

Do a DP? Or like a jump back HP/HK? It's a pretty useless move.

bush

I always get hit by that ****ty move too.