Do they send you a hospital bill if you were only checked be a nurse

SilverScreen89

Hello,

Last night I felt sick in town and was brought to the hospital. When I got there the nurse checked me and said I would have to stay overnight, but I told her it was out of the question for personal reasons, and she didn't really put up a fight or anything. Now I'm wondering whether I still have to pay the 100 euro fee even though I wasn't seen by a GP and did not stay overnight.

snubbleste

Did the notice on the wall say 'You do not have to pay the A&E fee if you don't stay overnight or see a doctor' ?

biko

GC-> Health

mr biazzi

I never seen that one,

RobFowl

If you just say the triage nurse and didn't wait to be examined then I'd say you could argue that you are not liable for the bill.
Simply registering at AE does not make you liable ..

SilverScreen89

snubbleste wrote: »

Did the notice on the wall say 'You do not have to pay the A&E fee if you don't stay overnight or see a doctor' ?

didn't check. i was still a bit shocked. I just dont see why I would have to pay 100 euro for a two minute check up by the nurse. I mean, I wasn't checked by a doctor, so they didn't do anything to me...

RobFowl

• Rules

Information

Everyone living in Ireland and certain visitors to Ireland are entitled to free maintenance and treatment in public beds in Health Service Executive (HSE) hospitals and voluntary hospitals. Some people may have to pay some hospital charges. Holders of medical cards and certain other groups do not have to pay charges.
The HSE has the discretion to reduce or waive the charges entirely in cases of hardship.
There are daily in-patient charges, an out-patient charge and some long-term stay charges.
Rules

Charges for out-patients/accident and emergency/casualty services in public hospitals

If you go to the out-patients, accident and emergency or casualty department of a public hospital without being referred there by your family doctor (GP), you may be charged €100 (from 1 January 2009).
There is no charge if you are referred by a GP.
The charge of €100 also does not apply to the following groups:

• Medical card holders
• People who are admitted to hospital as a result of attending the casualty department (you will then be subject to in-patient charges)
• People receiving treatment for prescribed infectious diseases
• Children up to six weeks of age, children suffering from prescribed diseases and disabilities and children referred for treatment from child health clinics and school health examinations
• People who are entitled to hospital services because of EU Regulations
• Women receiving maternity services.

If you have to return for further visits to an out-patient clinic in relation to the same illness or accident, you should not have to pay the charge again.
You can be referred by your family doctor to the out-patients department of a public hospital for specialist assessment by a consultant or his or her team or for diagnostic assessments (i.e., x-rays, laboratory tests, physiotherapy, etc.). If you attend this service as a public patient, you will not have to pay for this service. If you wish to attend a consultant in a private capacity, you must pay their fee.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/health/hospital-services/hospital_charges

chillin_penguin

A nurse is still a health care professional and you took up someone's time so ya you have to pay.

SilverScreen89

chillin_penguin wrote: »

A nurse is still a health care professional and you took up someone's time so ya you have to pay.

it's her bloody job. 100 euro for two minutes work does not seem fair to me is all I'm sayin.

bleg

Nope. Same thing happened to me. Had a problem, saw the triage nurse, she said it wasn't anything serious. Waited until the Monday to see my GP. Bill arrived in the post, rang the hospital admin and told them I didn't get any treatment. They double checked and said grand and told me no fee needed to be paid.


Edit: So yes they will send you the bill but you won't have to pay it. This happened 2 years ago now though so they might have tightened up...

SilverScreen89

bleg wrote: »

Nope. Same thing happened to me. Had a problem, saw the triage nurse, she said it wasn't anything serious. Waited until the Monday to see my GP. Bill arrived in the post, rang the hospital admin and told them I didn't get any treatment. They double checked and said grand and told me no fee needed to be paid.


Edit: So yes they will send you the bill but you won't have to pay it. This happened 2 years ago now though so they might have tightened up...

thats good news! so when should I expect the bill?

happyoutscan

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

it's her bloody job. 100 euro for two minutes work does not seem fair to me is all I'm sayin.

Yeah, and it's your job to pay the bill if you took her time up or better yet you should have waited to see your gp if you thought the a&e prices unfair. Try working their hours and putting up with all the sh*te they have to before complaining about it.

Geez some people...

bleg

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

thats good news! so when should I expect the bill?

You're dealing with the HSE...

imme

bleg wrote: »

You're dealing with the HSE...

don't you just love the snide comments anytime the Public Sector is mentioned on here.

sgt.bilko

My own personal opinion is that the OP should pay the set fee.

In his/her own words , he/she felt sick. How does that necessitate a visit to a hospital??

Why not call the out of hours doctor? They will advise with/without a visit if they see fit.

I'm sure the local A&E could do without someone who feels sick.

That said, I'm not privvy to the signs & symptons so this is a personal opinion as mentioned already.

SilverScreen89

sgt.bilko wrote: »

My own personal opinion is that the OP should pay the set fee.

In his/her own words , he/she felt sick. How does that necessitate a visit to a hospital??

Why not call the out of hours doctor? They will advise with/without a visit if they see fit.

I'm sure the local A&E could do without someone who feels sick.

That said, I'm not privvy to the signs & symptons so this is a personal opinion as mentioned already.

thing is I wasn't treated!!! I was checked and that's it! They filled some file with my name, but I wasn't treated, nor did I even talk to a doctor. I was literally only in there for fifteen minutes!!

TequilaMockingBird

So who do you think should pay for that 15 minutes of assessment?

Nelbert

Having previously worked in a hospital I can tell you that you should have to pay the fee.
The visit you describe is exactly the sort of nuisance visit and waste of time for any healthcare worker that the fee was put in place to prevent. i.e. go to your G.P. (it's cheaper anyway) if he sends you to A&E you don't pay.
I never worked in A&E but I've been in and out of their in the course of my previous job (I know a couple of people who work there in different capacities also and your type of visit is what frustrates them the most as it takes them away from other patients who might actually need their help.) and it's not a pleasant place to work and the staff do their best with what they have at their disposal, they don't need time wasters making their day any harder or more awkward.

Had you of spent 15 minutes with your GP would you expect not to be charged?

drzhivago

RobFowl wrote: »

If you just say the triage nurse and didn't wait to be examined then I'd say you could argue that you are not liable for the bill.
Simply registering at AE does not make you liable ..

Dont think thats right Fowl old pal
The fee is registration fee
The OP decided not to stay having engaged in the process

People often leave before they get that far and ask for their names to be withdrawn from record so that they dont get a bill, usually happens when waiting times are long

drzhivago

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

thing is I wasn't treated!!! I was checked and that's it! They filled some file with my name, but I wasn't treated, nor did I even talk to a doctor. I was literally only in there for fifteen minutes!!

There are a few questions here that are relevant

Did you feel sick enough to go?

Did you present without a GP letter

Did you register at the A&E reception?

Did you see the triage nurse and get an assessment?

Did you leave of your own accord?

From what I read the answers to all the above are yes and thus you will get a bill, will legally be obliged to pay the charge and will also be followed up for this in the current climate as the hospitals recoup revenue they legally can.

You used the service, why do you think you should not pay

If you felt so much better after 15 minutes that you could leave do you think maybe you should not have gone in the first place

bleg

imme wrote: »

don't you just love the snide comments anytime the Public Sector is mentioned on here.

Sorry that you felt it was snide but that wasn't my aim. I was merely trying to highlight that in the HSE there are no target timelines for items such as this (as far as I know). Therefore, when dealing with the HSE in cases such as this it is impossible to know how long it will take to be billed and will most likely vary depending on what hospital is attended.

liberal

i cut my hand at work before the boss insisted i go to a&e, when I got there the nurse said I'd be fine without stitches, so i left and never got a bill

3DataModem

sgt.bilko wrote: »

I'm sure the local A&E could do without someone who feels sick.

+1

locum-motion

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

Hello,
Last night I felt sick in town and was brought to the hospital. When I got there the nurse checked me and said I would have to stay overnight, but I told her it was out of the question for personal reasons, and she didn't really put up a fight or anything. Now I'm wondering whether I still have to pay the 100 euro fee even though I wasn't seen by a GP and did not stay overnight.

Hmm, first thing I'm wondering about is why you thought you'd be seen by a GP in a Hospital!

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

thing is I wasn't treated!!! I was checked and that's it! They filled some file with my name, but I wasn't treated, nor did I even talk to a doctor. I was literally only in there for fifteen minutes!!

Why is it relevant that you weren't treated? As far as I can tell, you didn't receive any treatment because you decided to leave 15 minutes after arriving despite the fact that a healthcare professional gave their opinion that you'd have to stay overnight*. Effectively, that's leaving Against Medical Advice (AMA) and doesn't negate the fact that you sought treatment in an A&E Department without a referral by a GP, without being admitted to the hospital etc.
Have a look at Rob's excellent post (#7) and tell me which of those categories (of people who don't have to pay) you think you belong in.
It seems to me that you have to pay, and to be brutally honest, I think you've got a damn cheek to think that you don't!

*: Ironically, if you'd stayed overnight, you wouldn't have had to pay the €100, as you'd have been admitted to the hospital, and people who are admitted aren't liable for the charge, as pointed out by Rob.

testicle

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

thats good news! so when should I expect the bill?

Whenever you change your god awful signature.

locum-motion

imme wrote: »

don't you just love the snide comments anytime the Public Sector is mentioned on here.

At the risk of straying off-topic:

In fairness, I don't think the public sector in general gets alot of snide comments, at least, not in the Health Sciences forum.
Also, I think most people have a great deal of respect for the actual frontline staff such as the doctors and nurses, so there's not too much snideness/snidity/snidology/whatever the word is aimed at them either.
Now, the admin/management/etc staff in the HSE; that seems to be a different story!

Dave147

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

So who do you think should pay for that 15 minutes of assessment?

I wasn't aware the nurses in the hospital were paid per patient they checked, I thought they were paid for the hours they worked :rolleyes:

sam34

Dave147 wrote: »

I wasn't aware the nurses in the hospital were paid per patient they checked, I thought they were paid for the hours they worked :rolleyes:

i odnt think anyone is suggesting he should pay that particular nurse. rather, he used a service and thus should have to pay the HSE for that service.


just because he decided midway through that he didnt want to continue with it, that doesnt mean everything up to that point should have been free

SilverScreen89

i cant believe the amount of crap I'm hearing from people, and you all must be rich folks with lots of money to be spending. It just so happens that 100 euro to pay is a lot of money for me, and it just so happens that I was in a state of shock when this happened. The nurse was a complete bitch and I was certainly not encouraged to spend the night there by the atmosphere. I would rather have spent a **** night and calm down at home.

I know there is going to be a lot of people that will say that I shouldn't have gone to the hospital...but I'm twenty and had never gone before and they certainly don't let people know about the procedures in there. So a little bloody compassion would be nice.

Now to ask a question again, because I genuinely don't know, when will I be getting the bill?

bleg

Impossible to know. If you don't get anything in the next 3 months I'd say you're grand.

sam34

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

i cant believe the amount of crap I'm hearing from people, and you all must be rich folks with lots of money to be spending. It just so happens that 100 euro to pay is a lot of money for me

i'm not particularly rich, and €100 is a lot of money for me too.

however, when i avail of a service, i expect to have to pay for it.

nesf

The fee needs to be there to discourage people from attending who have no business going to an A&E department and who could wait to see their GP or an out of hours service the next day. If you go into A&E you're taking up a slot and delaying the treatment of others compared to if you were not there.

ergo

to answer the question about when you'll have to pay, the answer is that it depends completely on the individual hospital. All hospitals are different in this respect. Some are very good at chasing up their debtors, others much less so.

Should you pay...? Strictly speaking I think you should, for many of the reasons outlined above....I mean the other question would be why should you not pay...? You left straight away, against the advice of the nurse who assessed you....above all, if you were forced to pay it could be a lesson to you for the future, next time you're feeling "sick" (but so sick that sampling the A+E environment for a few minutes was enough to make you feel better) that you might not run/get brought straight to A+E

note: don't want any details of your condition as per charter but I do hope you're feeling better by the way

on a slightly different note, in a kids A+E I used to work in, sometimes people would pay up front but would then find that there were maybe 20 people's kids ahead of theirs and decide to leave...in that case they were offered a refund as they had not been seen by the doctor (but had been assessed by the triage nurse). But the difference here being that these people were willing to wait for the doctor but not the 4 or 8 hours or God knows how long it might have been...and those waiting times (imho) are long for kids A+E...I know adult A+E wait times can be much longer

Nelbert

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

i cant believe the amount of crap I'm hearing from people, and you all must be rich folks with lots of money to be spending. It just so happens that 100 euro to pay is a lot of money for me

100 euro is a lot of money to most people but it was your mistake to go to A&E.
It boils down to this:
You felt unwell
You chose to attend A&E instead of a GP practice of any kind
You chose to leave after being assessed and advised to stay for the night against medical advice.

How is it you feel you shouldn't be charged?
You should be charged within the next month or so from my experience.

As a side note I genuinely hope you are feeling better.
But what you described is exactly the sort of thing that needlessly clogs up and wastes time in many A&E departments around the country who would otherwise be better able to deal with what comes through their doors. Seriously from working in a hospital and being around the A&E department I can tell you that the amount of time-wasters who should be going to a GP is a farce.

A friend of mine once rang me asking if A&E was busy as he was unwell(not discussing any condition), I advised him that he should go to a GP(it was minor) his reason for chosing A&E instead was "If I go to the GP I will have to pay him up front." I told him if I saw him in A&E that day or the next I would personally kick him out for wasting his own time and the A&E's as that was one of the most annoying things I had ever heard.

wheresthebeef

You attended the A&E because you felt you needed the services of the hospital. You were assessed by a healthcare professional. You were given professional advice. In this case there was no treatment suitable. Would you have rathered been given some placebo treatment to justify the charge. You are liable to pay the fee to the HSE. You used a service.

pebbles21

Anyway OP,did you get that chip off your shoulder surgically removed yet?

locum-motion

wheresthebeef wrote: »

... In this case there was no treatment suitable...

I'm not sure where you got that from.

There's nothing in the thread to say
a. what was wrong with the OP
b. what treatment would have been provided had the OP stayed
c. what treatment the OP may (or may not) have later recieved from another source such as a GP, a pharmacy, a friend or even their own medicine cabinet
d. whether the OP got better or not.

So, why do you think that no treatment was suitable?

locum-motion

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

So a little bloody compassion would be nice.

And you might get a bit more of it if you lose the bloody attitude!

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

Now to ask a question again, because I genuinely don't know, when will I be getting the bill?

That question has been answered already. But to answer it again, there's no way of knowing how long it will take to arrive.

When it does arrive, the overwhelming consensus of the people who have freely given their time to answer your question, is that you have to pay it. A little bit of gratitude would be nice.

People who answer questions here are volunteers. HSE staff aren't. They're paid employees, whose salaries are paid out of the taxes and other charges that the government collect in various ways. One of those is the A&E charge.

So just pay your bill, please.

SilverScreen89

sam34 wrote: »

i'm not particularly rich, and €100 is a lot of money for me too.

however, when i avail of a service, i expect to have to pay for it.

I didn't avail of the service, the nurse didn't even tell me what I should do to slow my heartbeat down. I would have had to stay overnight and I just couldn't. I didn't even know you had to, as it was my first time in a hospital. Thing is that people in there are complete assholes (as in this website) and if you are lost and still shocked, they don't give a flying ****. It's like they wait to screw you, then tell you that it was your fault.

sam34

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

I didn't avail of the service, the nurse didn't even tell me what I should do to slow my heartbeat down. I would have had to stay overnight and I just couldn't. I didn't even know you had to, as it was my first time in a hospital. Thing is that people in there are complete assholes (as in this website) and if you are lost and still shocked, they don't give a flying ****. It's like they wait to screw you, then tell you that it was your fault.

yes you did avail of a service, you were assessed by a nurse.

do you think that should be free??

nurses are highly trained professionals, and the assessment is the first part of the A&E process

the nurse offered his/her clinical opinion that you should stay for further assessment, which you chose not to do. thats your call.

paying the bill however, is not your call.

an analogy would be that if you went to a solicitor and asked for legal advice about bringing a civil case aginat someone, then you decided not o bring that case, you would still have to pay for teh initial appointment.

finally, on a mod note, we dont tolerate abusive language in here.
any more of it and you'll be banned

28064212

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

I didn't avail of the service, the nurse didn't even tell me what I should do to slow my heartbeat down. I would have had to stay overnight and I just couldn't. I didn't even know you had to, as it was my first time in a hospital. Thing is that people in there are complete assholes (as in this website) and if you are lost and still shocked, they don't give a flying ****. It's like they wait to screw you, then tell you that it was your fault.

She told you exactly what to do, she told you to stay overnight. You refused her professional opinion. What else was she supposed to do? Should she have sent you home with an ECG machine and told you what to look out for on it? Maybe she should have come home with you to monitor you since you "couldn't" stay?

SilverScreen89

sam34 wrote: »

finally, on a mod note, we dont tolerate abusive language in here.
any more of it and you'll be banned

I think that sentence alone tells me what kind of people I'm talking to...

Right, happy new year to you too, guys. I hope I never have seizures in front of your house because you'd probably run me over with your cars and say that I was one less problem for the healthcare system.

sam34

SilverScreen89 wrote: »

I think that sentence alone tells me what kind of people I'm talking to...

Right, happy new year to you too, guys. I hope I never have seizures in front of your house because you'd probably run me over with your cars and say that I was one less problem for the healthcare system.

why should we tolerate abusive language?

it's in teh charter, have a read of it.

i'm locking this thread now, as I dont think it's benefitting anyone