Not doing the Santa thing

ebmma

We're expecting our 1st next year and (given the type of season ) the whole Santa thing came up...

The thing is I don't think I'll be comfortable doing it. I never believed in Santa as a child and my OH being no. 7 in his family found out pretty early. However, Christmas is still a magical time for us even though we're over-grown kids in our twenties . It is a time of pretty trees, beautiful lights and decorations, nice food, meeting nice people and getting presents from people who care. Sometimes I feel like we're in a minority, but the magic is not lost on us even though Santa has nothing to do with it.

so...I was just thinking if it'll be that horrible if we just don't bring the Santa thing up?
We're not militant about it, there are just some things we don't end up doing..(like getting a tv:D).

anyone has experience in not doing Santa?

sarahlulu

would be very hard to pull this off once your child starts to socialise with other children

jhegarty

Why does Santa come to billy and tommy but not me ?

Ickle Magoo

We do as little of Santa as we can get away with. Tbh, we found it nigh on impossible not to do Santa. Too many pictures, references to, "what is Santa bringing you this year", etc, etc, etc type things.

If there was no Santa then question would be asked, both from our kids and of our kids - so they get a stocking filled with mini-cereals, fruit and a giant toblerone and everything else from people who exist and they can thank. It's the same way my folks did it and we find it works pretty well as a compromise.

ebmma

jhegarty wrote: »

Why does Santa come to billy and tommy but not me ?

because all families are different?
Not like he won't be getting any presents

rosebill

Hi
Would he get or be given the impression (when he's about 4-5) that he got no Santa because he was naughty, (You know Santa knows whether you have been naughty or nice.) and there is nothing like the magic for them when they really believe, so maybe think about how to make it magicial while he believes and all just enjoy it:)

quinnthebin

ebmma wrote: »

However, Christmas is still a magical time for us even though we're over-grown kids in our twenties . It is a time of pretty trees, beautiful lights and decorations, nice food, meeting nice people and getting presents from people who care. Sometimes I feel like we're in a minority, but the magic is not lost on us even though Santa has nothing to do with it.

No question you are in a minority (in this part of the world) if you're discounting santa - It's a tough call - my main concern would be how the child (when they're of an age) would relate the home experience with the feedback from their friends who santa comes to. Maybe you already have an answer to that if it was your own experience as a child. Guess it's all down to personal experiences - we all relate to what we've known as children. But personally for what it's worth (and I know it's not answering your question) I feel it's one of those magical experiences of childhood that can't be replicated or replaced at any other stage of life. there may not be that much magic out there after growing up.

TheMilkyPirate

If your still going to give the child presents then why not do santa?

nesf

He or she will be bombarded with Santa images and stories from outside the house. From a practical point of view it's easier to go along with it rather than have to give the "he doesn't really exist" talk to a 2 or 3 year old who will promptly go and tell their preschool friends or whatever about how Santa doesn't exist making a whole lot of trouble for a bunch of other parents and quite possibly some very upset little kids.

Honestly, I figured it out early and was never really that into the whole Santa thing as a kid but we did do it for our firstborn and he really really got into it and enjoys the idea of it. It's just some harmless fantasy for a young child and it's far easier to follow the outside trend in these things than to buck it (i.e. because it's really such a trivial thing why go to the stress and bother of not playing along?). It's not that it'll be bad for your child but if he's socialising with other young kids it could create problems for their parents or kids etc. It's fine if you can surround your child in a bubble until they're 5 or so when they might (if you're lucky) be mature enough to not bring up the topic around other kids but a younger child just won't get why he or she shouldn't tell other kids that "Actually, Santa doesn't exist!" and so on.

Ickle Magoo

baraca wrote: »

If your still going to give the child presents then why not do santa?

Some people think that getting a gazillion presents from a made up entity isn't actually that important. Santa started out giving to the poor children, then gave a lump of coal, then a sweetie to every kid. Now some poor kids think that an X-box, a bike and half a dozen other things are conjured up by "Santa" while mum & dad get them a lousy sweater. We prefer to do things the other way around - what's so terrible about that?

nomad4life

ebmma wrote: »

We're expecting our 1st next year and (given the type of season ) the whole Santa thing came up...

The thing is I don't think I'll be comfortable doing it. I never believed in Santa as a child and my OH being no. 7 in his family found out pretty early. However, Christmas is still a magical time for us even though we're over-grown kids in our twenties . It is a time of pretty trees, beautiful lights and decorations, nice food, meeting nice people and getting presents from people who care. Sometimes I feel like we're in a minority, but the magic is not lost on us even though Santa has nothing to do with it.

so...I was just thinking if it'll be that horrible if we just don't bring the Santa thing up?
We're not militant about it, there are just some things we don't end up doing..(like getting a tv:D).

anyone has experience in not doing Santa?

We didn't believe in Santa when we were kids and neither have my siblings with any of my nieces and nephews. It was never an issue. My nieces and nephews are all between 3 and 8 and they all know that Santa is like the tooth fairy or easter bunny - a fun idea. They get presents form family and we still address a few presents form Santa and they have fun trying to figure out which family member is Santa and who the gift is from. They also still like Easter Egg hunts even though they know there is no giant bunny laying them and waking up to money under their pillow even though they know there is no tooth fairy. So it can still be fun for them without the belief that it is real. None of them or us as kids asked why me or not me - we understood that different families do things differently.

ebmma

baraca wrote: »

If your still going to give the child presents then why not do santa?

Because it is difficult for me. It goes against the usual advice people give on parenting 'try your best and do what comes naturally'.

Well, Santa just doesn't come naturally to me
I just don't understand why you can't exchange presents for the sake of being nice to your friends and family...

Actually my most vivid Santa memory from childhood is my mum giving out to me with tears in her eyes about not believing (and all kids supposed to). Wasn't nice. I know I'm not her, but I just don't have a fun image of it all and it'll be hard to create it from scratch if necessary.

ebmma

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Some people think that getting a gazillion presents from a made up entity isn't actually that important. Santa started out giving to the poor children, then gave a lump of coal, then a sweetie to every kid. Now some poor kids think that an X-box, a bike and half a dozen other things are conjured up by "Santa" while mum & dad get them a lousy sweater. We prefer to do things the other way around - what's so terrible about that?

My frind's parents told her that Santa used to bring presents to children long-long time ago but he's long dead now and parents get presents instead now to keep up the good tradition I thought it was amusing.

itz me

there is nothing like seeing your child's face when they wake up on christmas morning and they see that this magical man has left them something special...its not about the money...its about the meaning...give your child the right to a christmas and dont be such a meany

Ickle Magoo

ebmma wrote: »

My frind's parents told her that Santa used to bring presents to children long-long time ago but he's long dead now and parents get presents instead now to keep up the good tradition I thought it was amusing.

That's just mean.



:pac:

ebmma

itz me wrote: »

there is nothing like seeing your child's face when they wake up on christmas morning and they see that this magical man has left them something special...its not about the money...its about the meaning...give your child the right to a christmas and dont be such a meany

why is it not magical to get surprise presents from your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, etc? Isn't it nice to know how many different nice real people actually care about you?

ebmma

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

That's just mean.



:pac:

she didn't seem to mind at the time, maybe was old enough or something..

Ickle Magoo

I wasn't being wholly serious, I popped a wee pacman in at the bottom there. :P

LegacyUser

nomad4life wrote: »

We didn't believe in Santa when we were kids and neither have my siblings with any of my nieces and nephews. It was never an issue. My nieces and nephews are all between 3 and 8 and they all know that Santa is like the tooth fairy or easter bunny - a fun idea. They get presents form family and we still address a few presents form Santa and they have fun trying to figure out which family member is Santa and who the gift is from. They also still like Easter Egg hunts even though they know there is no giant bunny laying them and waking up to money under their pillow even though they know there is no tooth fairy. So it can still be fun for them without the belief that it is real. None of them or us as kids asked why me or not me - we understood that different families do things differently.

It is kids like this that ruin the magic for other kids by telling them Santa is not real.

nesf

ebmma wrote: »

why is it not magical to get surprise presents from your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, etc? Isn't it nice to know how many different nice real people actually care about you?

Because there's no fantasy or big story when mommy or daddy gives you a present ergo not very magical. Plus, aren't presents from grandparents, uncles etc not normally given to the kid by the giver not "Santa"?

Ickle Magoo

Well, we only got a nominal gift from Santa and Christmas was and always has been my favourite time of year. I still didn't know what prezzies I was getting and I knew I would have a fabulous day with my family and seeing all my cousins and relatives - I don't think building up some super-duper fantasy story about a make-believe present giver which will turn out to be a complete lie is a pre-requisite of a magical christmas, tbh.

MissHoneyBun

ebmma wrote: »

Because it is difficult for me.

I have a feeling you might be doing a few things that are 'difficult' for you once your baby arrives. People call it making sacrifices for their children. To be honest, I think it's cruel that you would deprive your child of something as big as Santa just because you can't be arsed trying.

LordSutch

Believing in Santa was certainly a very 'magical' & wonderful part of my childhood, and one which I will definately pass on to my children ..........

The pillow case which I left at the end of my bed was always filled with Santa's presents, (bicycle aside) with Mum & Dads presents always wrapped & under the Christmas tree. (I was 10/11 when I was told that Santa wasn't real).

Beautiful memories.

am i bovvered

MissHoneyBun wrote: »

I have a feeling you might be doing a few things that are 'difficult' for you once your baby arrives. People call it making sacrifices for their children. To be honest, I think it's cruel that you would deprive your child of something as big as Santa just because you can't be arsed trying.

Have agree with this, there are some credible reasons why a parent would not allow their child to have the "santa" experience but to decide now that your child won't because it did not mean much to you is a little selfish.
As you say, you are going to buy a present anyway, why not let it be from Santa, its nice to try and preserve a little piece of "unreality" in a childs life these days.

quickbeam

You'd certainly be in the minority if you don't do Santa, but that's not to say you'll be the only ones. There are a significant number of parents who don't do Santa for different reasons. I wouldn't do Santa if I had children.

Do Santa if you want, and don't if you don't want. But don't do it just because it's what everybody else does.

Any kids I know who know the truth about Santa have been good at keeping the secret and not spilling the beans to kids who do believe.

eviltwin

Its a wonderful part of christmas having a little person who believes in santa but if its something you feel strongly about then dont do it. Its hardly child abuse. But to not bother trying just makes me wonder if you really have any concept about what goes into raising a child...you have to make so many sacrifices and you'll have to do many things you have no desire to do. Its what parenting is all about.

One thing though is if you do let them know that its really mum and dad supplying the gifts - please make sure they dont tell any of their friends. It would be horrible to have another child's belief ruined by a little kid who doesn't know any better

ebmma

Wow, had no idea that this affects my total parenting abilities, thanks :rolleyes:

eviltwin

Its very easy to say you won't buy into it when you don't have kids. Come back in a few years lol

I know I had a list of things junior would not be allowed to do or would have restriced access to...tv, sweets, junk food etc

Sometimes the best of intentions go totally by the wayside

And for the record I'm not saying people who dont allow their kids to buy into santa are bad parents or not fit for the job but its probably the least "difficult" thing you will have to do once your child arrives.

metrovelvet

Everything under my tree is from Santa. It would be suicidal for my son to think obtaining all those toys and sweets are within human powers. He would be asking everyday for more trains and tracks. Nope. Its once a year and yes its by magic. Oh, and be careful with the new blasphemy laws saying there is no santa.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

nesf wrote: »

He or she will be bombarded with Santa images and stories from outside the house. From a practical point of view it's easier to go along with it rather than have to give the "he doesn't really exist" talk to a 2 or 3 year old who will promptly go and tell their preschool friends or whatever about how Santa doesn't exist making a whole lot of trouble for a bunch of other parents and quite possibly some very upset little kids.

That's not the OP's problem...

ebmma wrote: »

Because it is difficult for me. It goes against the usual advice people give on parenting 'try your best and do what comes naturally'.

Well, Santa just doesn't come naturally to me
I just don't understand why you can't exchange presents for the sake of being nice to your friends and family...

Actually my most vivid Santa memory from childhood is my mum giving out to me with tears in her eyes about not believing (and all kids supposed to). Wasn't nice. I know I'm not her, but I just don't have a fun image of it all and it'll be hard to create it from scratch if necessary.

IF you do not believe that this is the right way to raise your child, then don't do it. Following the sheep isn't the answer. Do what you think is right. Those less ignorant will support your decision either way... Ignore the rest.

drkpower

ebmma wrote: »

Because it is difficult for me. It goes against the usual advice people give on parenting 'try your best and do what comes naturally'.

Well, Santa just doesn't come naturally to me
I just don't understand why you can't exchange presents for the sake of being nice to your friends and family...

Actually my most vivid Santa memory from childhood is my mum giving out to me with tears in her eyes about not believing (and all kids supposed to). Wasn't nice. I know I'm not her, but I just don't have a fun image of it all and it'll be hard to create it from scratch if necessary.

You seem to be letting your own memories interfere with what is best for your kid. I there are reasons that you think the Santa myth is bad for the kid, then good for you. But why let your own memories or apparent difficulty with Santa 'comimg naturally' affect what experiences your kid has. You dont need to believe yourself, you know:rolleyes:.

And, of course, you can and should exchange gifts with other members of the family. Why not just make the Santa thing a token issue, and make the 'main' present from you?

I wouldnt say you are a bad parent for not 'doing Santa' but if you are only not doing it because you never really got into it yourself, then yes, that is bad parenting. Do something based on its merits, not because of your own particular experiences, particularly if they were negative childhood experiences which almost always take on something of a life of their own.

KittyeeTrix

Dear lord, will ya just let the kids be kids and stop over thinking everything.......
There is nothing more magical than watching the kids reaction to all things related to Santa at xmas. They already grow up too fast and know things too early!!!!!!!
Honest to god, sometimes I despair.....

Chicken Run

in our house, "Santa" brings a stocking full of silly little presents - the sort of stuff that mum & dad won't normally let you have...water pistols, farty putty, crap sweets etc etc and the presents under the tree are labelled with who's given them and they are thanked accordingly.

Kind of a middle ground ?

Often Santa's "surprises" are more played with and appreciated than the bigger "asked for" presents as well.

DinoBot

ebmma wrote: »

We're not militant about it, there are just some things we don't end up doing..(like getting a tv:D).

anyone has experience in not doing Santa?

Hi,

Well I have a little bit experience with the whole 'no Santa' thing. My kids are aged from 15 to 4. We never did the whole Santa for the older kids. From the very start we told them Santa was not real and its the parents who give the toys at Christmas. We always answered every question they asked about it.

Did it take away from the magical experience of Christmas, NO! We still had presents, still woke up early and went down stairs to open presents. There was still great excitement going to bed Christmas eve and waking Christmas morning.
We actually asked the kids if they felt they missed out, they said no.

With the youngest, who is 4 this year, and with us being older and wiser (and perhaps less militant), we did have Santa. He is Santa mad But he also knows Santa is not real and is just pretend. Well as much as any 4yr old can make of it.

My advice would be don't be too strict about it, kids have a great imagination. Let them develop by themselves, when they ask about it, answer honestly. You will see its a much more organic process that way. Like kids learn that although animals in books and cartoons talk, real animals don't.

That's what worked for us. But every kid is different, every family is different. So do what makes you and your family happy. At the end of the day thats what counts.


...... but as for no TV, are you crazy!!! LOL


Just reading over some of the comments here makes me laugh, people really can't see beyond their own little lives. Do people understand that some people have different beliefs, alot of different faiths don't do Santa, muslims, jehovah's witnesses, hindus, bahai.
Does this make all these people 'bad parents' ?? I suppose a school system which isolates kids of different faiths has this effect so its to be expected, but it still surprises me to hear it still in 2010.

eviltwin

No tv...good luck to anyone who can get away with that one

OP you're not only going to let your child miss out on a great experience you and your partner will also be missing out on what is for most parents one of the most magical parts of christmas

My daughter is long past the believing in Santa stage and its definately lost some of its charm now. The build up to the big day, the excitement of Christmas Eve and seeing her face on Christmas morning remain for me one of the most wonderful memories of her childhood.

lynski

good thread. I am not comfortable with the whole santa thing too. we have told our ds that santa is a story but he still gets a little santa pressie unwrapped under the tree and all other pressies from family members. He is 3 we will see and dd is 1 so will work on her too.
I am not comfortable with the santa thing because it is grown so much since i was a child - we had a fear we would not get anything, genuine and also that we had no control over what we did get. you could ask, but you got what you got. we always understood that parents had to pay for the toys he brought too, not sure of the technical details but they did. it is all to indulgent now. it is fine saying let them by kids, but we have to teach them your values too.
Also as an atheist christmas presents a lot of challenges that we will have to overcome as time goes on. Enjoyed the season for the family get together, dh off work and the holiday stuff. Luckily in a more multicultural Ireland we will not be as alone as my friends who were raised pagan in the 80s!

Dudess

Kaison Short Prison wrote: »

IF you do not believe that this is the right way to raise your child, then don't do it. Following the sheep isn't the answer. Do what you think is right. Those less ignorant will support your decision either way... Ignore the rest.

Yes, parents make Christmas a magical, fantastical time for their children... in order to be sheep.
"Ignorant" - lol. Guess most of us are ignorant so. Do you ever tire of being so aggressively judgemental and self-righteous?

OP, it's not a fair thing to do IMO. So what if you and your partner didn't believe? And not believing is not the same as what you propose - you were still told there was a Santa weren't you? So there was choice - your child won't have a choice if you go down this route.
Your reasoning that all families are different isn't relevant either, IMO - so what? Why should that be imposed on a young child? When a kid is small, they want to experience what their peers are experiencing, and there's nothing wrong with that - they've plenty of time to be individuals and different.

stovelid

I've also started to rehearse my objections for the tooth fairy with my son.

Winged female entities have better things to be doing then dressing up in titillating sparkly dresses and drudging around picking up young men's discarded teeth.

And I'm deeply unhappy about the exploitative commercial aspect of the underlying body-for-money paradigm.

Celestial prostitution, to be perfectly frank.

Ickle Magoo

Not to mention sexist.

LadyTBolt

My daughter last year, when in Senior Infants, one of her classmates told the class there was no such thing as Santa. Her parents didn't do Santa and passed on their views. The classmate is a lovely quiet child and the strange thing is not one child in the class believed her. My own daughter sat in to my car when I collected her and explained how this little girl told everybody that the mammy and daddy buys the presents and hides them and puts them under the tree when the children are in bed Christmas Eve. I was speechless. I wasn't expecting that from a 5yr old. Before I could open my mouth she then went on to say that what this little girl said was a big lie and how could she say such a thing and that she thinks the girl is confused with the presents mammy and daddy buy for each other and other children they know.

I felt bad for the little girl for a number of reasons. She must have felt really lonely when nobody believed her. When she gets older and its a case of I told you so when they all find out he's not real, nobody will care if he's real or not, Santa is a big magical figure in lots of childrens eyes.

You can choose not to do the santa thing if you wish to. It's completely your decision as a parent. However, what if when your child starts thinking for itself your child might want to believe? Will they feel left out if you don't support the idea of Santa? Children change our lives so much when they arrive and they change our outlook on different things too. It can be hard explaining to our little ones the harsh realities of life in all things real and make-belief. Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

Hotblack Desiato

drkpower wrote: »

You seem to be letting your own memories interfere with what is best for your kid.

Actually, they seem to be letting their own experiences interfere with what other people think is best for their kid.

Good parenting in my book... conformity for the sake of it is never a good thing, if it's what you want and believe in then good.

Hotblack Desiato

lynski wrote: »

I am not comfortable with the santa thing because it is grown so much since i was a child

Absolutely. It is waaay out of hand for a lot of people these days, that doesn't mean it has to be that way if you choose to do it, but it doesn't make it any easier. What most people do should not sway you as a parent into doing something you don't feel comfortable about. e.g. Most parents (even those with little or no religious belief) send their kids to religious schools, that doesn't mean we have to, or that our child is missing out just because their experience of childhood isn't 100% identical to everyone else's.

I've said it before, but conformity is way overrated, and reduces the range of experience a child is exposed to which is hardly a good thing.

Dudess

ninja900 wrote: »

conformity for the sake of it is never a good thing

It's hardly conformity for the sake of "it" - more for the sake of the child. Call me unenlightened but I don't think imposing a principle or set of principles on a 3 to 9-year-old is reasonable. And how is it good parenting? I'm sure it's good parenting in the sense that it makes the parent(s) feel good about themselves. What about the child? If Santa isn't "done" at home, what's the actual benefit for the child? Isn't that what should be paramount?

Ickle Magoo

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 3-9yr old that hasn't had their parents principles imposed on them in one form or another.

Dudess

True Ickle, and it's only fair I point out I'm not a parent - however, in my opinion, teaching a child particular values that will give them life skills and hopefully ensure appropriate ways of behaving in particular situations is one thing, imposing something on them because it's the preference of the parent and not of any particular benefit to the child, is another.
You're not into the Santa thing, but you still bring it into their Christmas in some form.

Ickle Magoo

What actually benefits a child as seen by their parents vs other people is often very subjective.

We do a bit of the Santa thing because the alternative is to actively insist that there is no Santa - and I'm no more comfortable doing that than I am promoting him. So we end up with a kind of watered down version which doesn't really push the point but isn't making a statement in the negative either.

cranks

Santa, the tooth fairy, jack frost, the sandman, the boogy man, the banshee, leprechauns, mythology, parables, spirituality, mysticism, religion - all part of the same spectrum IMO. Take your pick when trying to instill some fundamental messages on the mysteries of human nature or even 'what it's all about'. I'm not so sure that running with the notion of a man who personifies benignity, generosity of spirit, forgiveness, etc is necessarily a bad thing for kids. The notion of Santa has become such a vehicle.

In my experience, the kids will lead the way, ask the questions, lap it up as long as is their inclination, and ultimately have their epiphany whereby they turn to you one day with words to the effect 'Santa's a load of bollix'. (Many people go through the same process with respect to religion and God). However, the deeper meanings do stick methinks and most kids will simultaneously understand that the deceit was in some way purposeful and tend to be only too happy to run with it themselves for younger siblings.

PS. Please answer a 4 year olds question: Who'd win in a race, Santa or Holy God? (Personally, I felt that it was important to touch on notions of obesity, lightweight clothing, running on clouds or snow, and wind direction)

Dudess

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

We do a bit of the Santa thing because the alternative is to actively insist that there is no Santa - and I'm no more comfortable doing that than I am promoting him. So we end up with a kind of watered down version which doesn't really push the point but isn't making a statement in the negative either.

Seems like an ideal compromise really.

Hotblack Desiato

Dudess wrote: »

It's hardly conformity for the sake of "it" - more for the sake of the child.

That's your opinion, quite a few people do not share that opinion, I'd be of similar opinion to Ickle Magoo myself, the crass commercialism and materialism that comes along with Christmas gets on my nerves...

Call me unenlightened but I don't think imposing a principle or set of principles on a 3 to 9-year-old is reasonable.

If you don't start then (before then, really) you'll have no hope when they're teenagers... I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking that pester power can get them anything, or what other kids parents (supposedly) let their kids do should dictate what they're allowed to do.

spfeno

Christmas is all about children (from a family point of view)

We will be coming out of the other end of it having three kids pass through the 'myth'. Myself and other half have discussed it this year and we will miss it when we start to have to go through the Yultide Heretic phase of family life.

Its a hard one to call especially since you haven't really started yet but I would say your attitude may change when junior hits the two plus mark.

stovelid

ninja900 wrote: »

If you don't start then (before then, really) you'll have no hope when they're teenagers... I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking that pester power can get them anything, or what other kids parents (supposedly) let their kids do should dictate what they're allowed to do.

In the next few few years, I'll have no problem with going along with Santa. That in no way means that I'll automatically be a soft touch for "pester power" down the line.