Female Sterilization

Toxica

I've been trying to find a private hospital or clinic that offers female sterilization in Ireland, does anyone know of any? I've done a google search but can only find ones in England. I would go for it through the public health system via my GP but since I am young(ish) they wouldn't even consider it.

January

They won't even sterilise you if your youngish and have kids in public care in Ireland. Takes a lot of persuasion. Have you tried Clane Hospital?

Nevyn

IF you have no children you have to be over 40, if you have 2 kids you have to be 35 if you are younger then 35 and have no kids there isn't anywhere in this country which will do the operation for even going privately and paying for it.
The HSE health care policies on this are very catholic.

So unfortunately you will have to go do a different country if you do not meet the very narrow criteria laid down.

Toxica

I'll try to contact Clane Hospital, I had a look at their website, nothing about sterilization on there but worth contacting them I suppose. To be honest I'm not even sure if I will be able to talk a private hospital into doing it seeing as I'm 28 and have no children yet. I have never wanted to have kids, since I was a kid I knew I would never want to have them but when I tell other people that they just look at me like I am insane! I don't see why it's seen as strange that a woman doesn't want to have kids. I'll probably end up going to England to get it done, they might be a bit easier to talk into doing it for me! Thanks for your help anyway.

Toxica

Thaedydal wrote: »

IF you have no children you have to be over 40, if you have 2 kids you have to be 35 if you are younger then 35 and have no kids there isn't anywhere in this country which will do the operation for even going privately and paying for it.
The HSE health care policies on this are very catholic.

So unfortunately you will have to go do a different country if you do not meet the very narrow criteria laid down.

Oh well, looks like I have no chance then! My doctor said they wouldn't do it if I was under 30 but I thought that if I went private that I may be able to get it done. England it is then!

Thanks for your help anyways.

hayser

Can I ask what you mean ny sterilization? Do you mean a hysterectomy? I don't want kids either and I'm 30. I didn't even know sterilization was possible for people who don't want children.

Toxica

You can get your fallopian tubes tied. Check out this page : http://www.bpas.org/bpaswoman.php?page=80

It explains it all!

January

Thaedydal wrote: »

IF you have no children you have to be over 40, if you have 2 kids you have to be 35 if you are younger then 35 and have no kids there isn't anywhere in this country which will do the operation for even going privately and paying for it.
The HSE health care policies on this are very catholic.

So unfortunately you will have to go do a different country if you do not meet the very narrow criteria laid down.

Which is a bloody disgrace. I'm 22 and due my second child at the end of February. I know I'm finished having children after this one. This means that I'll have to pay for contraception for the next 13 years at least or go to England and give them my money to get my tubes tied. My OH has offered to get "the snip" but what if we're not together in 13 years and I have met someone else or it doesn't take?

Guess I'll be heading to England also!

Toxica

It is a bloody disgrace! I tried the implant but I got so depressed on it, like I had permanent PMS, I really don't want to try any more hormone contraceptives!

Zaph

adrieanne__x wrote: »

My OH has offered to get "the snip"

Tbh, it's likely that they'll refuse a vasectomy for your partner if he's under 30 or so as well. I know this from a family friend who requested one when he was about that age due to already being the father of 5. It was only when his 6th child was born a year later that the GP agreed to refer him.

LegacyUser

Hi, had to reply to this thread. I'm 37 and like you have always known I don't want kids. NO interest, yet you get treated like an idiot when you talk with friends and family - "ah sure you will when the right man comes along!" type sh1te is what they usually come out with and medical professionals are worse.

I've had problem periods since I was 9! yes 9! I've tried the pills (least 3 diferenent kinds), implanon and depo and none of them agree with me - I want Sterilization but none of the Doctors I've spoken to over the years have taken it seriously. Like you I got the "your too young" "not till you've had children will it be considered" etc.

Why?

Its my body and I want something done. I've asked for it to be done privately (forget waiting lists) & would rather it done here then added complications of going abroad. I've said to at least three of the GPs I've spoken too about it that they can refer me to a counselor of their choosing and I'll convince them of my desire to not be a mother but all I ever get is fobbed off. Argh. True I should of pushed harder earlier but life has a habit of getting in the way before its suggested I havn't done enough. I've tried when money, time and emotional strength allowed.

However there is light (I hope), my latest Doc after 4yrs of listening to me beg has finally agreed to at least send me for tests. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Don't give up. If your absolutely sure that this is what you want keep pushing. Good Luck

January

Zaph wrote: »

Tbh, it's likely that they'll refuse a vasectomy for your partner if he's under 30 or so as well. I know this from a family friend who requested one when he was about that age due to already being the father of 5. It was only when his 6th child was born a year later that the GP agreed to refer him.

He's 31 so hopefully it'll be OK... Even so I know there's a private doc in Blanchardstown that does vasectomy's... Had a few recommendations!

fend

Hi -- Just a curious passer-byer...
Just wondering, why they won't perform these procedures if your under 40? Isn't it a personal choice? Just curious!

January

fend wrote: »

Hi -- Just a curious passer-byer...
Just wondering, why they won't perform these procedures if your under 40? Isn't it a personal choice? Just curious!

Simple and correct answer is that this is a backwards country. It should be your own choice but it's not!

foxinsox

Toxica wrote: »

I've been trying to find a private hospital or clinic that offers female sterilization in Ireland, does anyone know of any? I've done a google search but can only find ones in England. I would go for it through the public health system via my GP but since I am young(ish) they wouldn't even consider it.

I just happened to be talking to my doctor about contraception the other day. She was telling me about the Mirena coil, from what she said it seems that if you get your tubes tied there is 1/500 chance of getting pregnant whereas with the coil it is 1/1000 so this is often given to women who don't want more or any children. The coil can stay in place for up to five years.

I hope I've quoted my doctor correctly, but I'm sure you could google it and check facts. It might be an option for you.

opinion guy

fend wrote: »

Hi -- Just a curious passer-byer...
Just wondering, why they won't perform these procedures if your under 40? Isn't it a personal choice? Just curious!

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Simple and correct answer is that this is a backwards country. It should be your own choice but it's not!

No thats not the reason. The reason is that sometimes people do change there mind, and whilst tube tying procedures can be reversed - its not easy and doesn't always work. Hysterectomy obvisouly is not reversible, but surgeons would be reluctant to do it on someone so young because a ) who knows who your life and attitudes can change in ten years and b ) the are afraid of getting sued. Basically if the guideline says you shoudl not do this in someone under x years old and without y number of kids - and they do it anyway, and in 5 years time that person changes their mind, that patient coudl sue them for going against the guidlines.

January

Wouldn't all that be solved by simply signing a legal document stating that in the event of a mind change you cannot sue the doctor performing the procedure/the hospital/the HSE. Mentioning all three so that it's as airtight as possible?

I think hysterectomies are a bit radical unless there is a medical reason for them.

opinion guy

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Wouldn't all that be solved by simply signing a legal document stating that in the event of a mind change you cannot sue the doctor performing the procedure/the hospital/the HSE. Mentioning all three so that it's as airtight as possible?

No I don't think so. Id be interested what a legal opinion on this would be but i don't think such a waiver is binding.

I think hysterectomies are a bit radical unless there is a medical reason for them.

Thats another point. Hysterectomies are not small procedures and carry mobridity and mortality risks. Surgeons may not be willing to take such risks in the very young

dudara

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Wouldn't all that be solved by simply signing a legal document stating that in the event of a mind change you cannot sue the doctor performing the procedure/the hospital/the HSE. Mentioning all three so that it's as airtight as possible?

Such waivers can be overturned in court. They really have very little status.

These procedures are often refused to young people because of the fact that they could change their minds later in life. They could possibly claim that they were not informed of all the facts etc.

Svalbard

There are forms of contraception available that are more effective and safer than female sterilisation. Most of these alternatives are also easily reversible.

Complications of sterilisation procedures include regret, failure, ectopic pregnancy and death.

Some posters have decided that the reason they are having difficulty convincing Irish doctors to refer for or perform steriliation is because this country is backward or Catholic. The real reason is because it is not best medical practice to sterilise the young for the reasons outlined above, when safer, more affective and reversible alternatives are available.

As for the argument 'its my body I can do what I like' - that's all well and good, but you are not going to sterilise yourself, are you? You are looking to have someone else do it for you. You are forgetting that the surgeon must accept responsibility for your welfare. With such alternative methods available is it really surprising that many refuse to take the risk?

Piste

fend wrote: »

Hi -- Just a curious passer-byer...
Just wondering, why they won't perform these procedures if your under 40? Isn't it a personal choice? Just curious!

If something goes wrong in the procedure the surgeon could be hauled in front of the fitness to practice committee and his/her decision to carry out the operation will be scrutinised. If there was no medical reason for the tubal ligation to be carried out and there was a complication as a result of the procedure the surgeon could be struck off the medical register.

bronte

I've personally never understood this. It is disgusting to me that a woman cannot choose to eliminate the possibility of children from her life.
I have long strived for a hysterectomy and have been essentially laughed at thus far. One elderly doctor actually said "Sure why would a pretty girl like you not have children"
I live in England now and intend to have the tubal ligation performed, but in all honesty, if I'm going to have surgery I'd prefer it to be 100% effective.
I do feel there's some kind of underlying conspiracy behind it all.

Nevyn

Svalbard wrote: »

There are forms of contraception available that are more effective and safer than female sterilisation. Most of these alternatives are also easily reversible.

There is only 1 type of contraception which is as effective as female sterilisation and that is the I.U.S. which is not suitable for ever woman.

C

Svalbard wrote: »

omplications of sterilisation procedures include regret, failure, ectopic pregnancy and death.

Scare mongering will not be tolerated on this forum.

All surgical proceedures call risks all of them.

Svalbard wrote: »

Some posters have decided that the reason they are having difficulty convincing Irish doctors to refer for or perform steriliation is because this country is backward or Catholic. The real reason is because it is not best medical practice to sterilise the young for the reasons outlined above, when safer, more affective and reversible alternatives are available.

The health policies arround female reproduction in the country are catholic attitude based and this reflects on the lack of choice women have.

Svalbard wrote: »

As for the argument 'its my body I can do what I like' - that's all well and good, but you are not going to sterilise yourself, are you? You are looking to have someone else do it for you. You are forgetting that the surgeon must accept responsibility for your welfare. With such alternative methods available is it really surprising that many refuse to take the risk?

Many more women would avail of female sterilisation if there were not as many hoops to jump through, every year I know of at least 5 women who want to get it done and can not due to the policies in the country and the prohibitive cost to have it done abroad.

flynnser19

Toxica wrote: »

I'll try to contact Clane Hospital, I had a look at their website, nothing about sterilization on there but worth contacting them I suppose. To be honest I'm not even sure if I will be able to talk a private hospital into doing it seeing as I'm 28 and have no children yet. I have never wanted to have kids, since I was a kid I knew I would never want to have them but when I tell other people that they just look at me like I am insane! I don't see why it's seen as strange that a woman doesn't want to have kids. I'll probably end up going to England to get it done, they might be a bit easier to talk into doing it for me! Thanks for your help anyway.

ive always felt like this myself and i hate the way people lok at you when you say you dont want kids. i always get the reaction of "dont say that" as if its the worst thing on earth!!!granted i am only 22 but i know deep in my heart i dont want children ever!!!im too selfish and i just have never been maternal!!!!!let me know what you find out because one day i might do it when im older!!

Barracudaincork

flynnser19 wrote: »

ive always felt like this myself and i hate the way people lok at you when you say you dont want kids. i always get the reaction of "dont say that" as if its the worst thing on earth!!!granted i am only 22 but i know deep in my heart i dont want children ever!!!im too selfish and i just have never been maternal!!!!!let me know what you find out because one day i might do it when im older!!

5 Years ago, myself and both male and female friends went out for dinner where this topic came up and 3 women said they did want to have kids without a shadow of a doubt, the other 3 said no way, never ever, not a chance etc etc I have bought 3 baby presents since then, and each one was for the "never ever" women. All of whom who are delighted with their babies.

I have another friend who said no way, no babies and i knew in my heart and soul she meant it, herself and her husband have been married a few years now and love their lifestyle too much etc She is now 40 and doesnt regret not having kids.

I guess my point is, that we all know people who say it, its just hard to pick out the ones who really mean it against the ones who dont. Also dont take it to heart when people say "dont say that", maybe they dont think you mean it or maybe they genuinely cant imagine you not being a Mum as they think you would be a great one etc etc

LegacyUser

I dont mean to scare monger anyone but anyone considering this operation should really really THINK TWICE

My sister had this done after her fourth child and passed away as a result.

She was in perfect health non smoker non drinker.

So think twice ladies

Nevyn

Every major surgery has risks, it's not a minor one like a vasectomy but it's not the risks which dictated the policy on at what age a woman can have one but catholic dogma which should not happen in this day and age.

Svalbard

bronte wrote: »

I've personally never understood this. It is disgusting to me that a woman cannot choose to eliminate the possibility of children from her life.
I have long strived for a hysterectomy and have been essentially laughed at thus far. One elderly doctor actually said "Sure why would a pretty girl like you not have children"
I live in England now and intend to have the tubal ligation performed, but in all honesty, if I'm going to have surgery I'd prefer it to be 100% effective.
I do feel there's some kind of underlying conspiracy behind it all.

Er, really..... Disgusting? Conspiracy theory? Is that not a tad OTT?

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is only 1 type of contraception which is as effective as female sterilisation and that is the I.U.S. which is not suitable for ever woman.

Mirena, Implanon and Vasectomy are more effective than sterilisation.

Thaedydal wrote: »

Scare mongering will not be tolerated on this forum.

All surgical proceedures call risks all of them.

Thaedydal wrote: »

Every major surgery has risks, it's not a minor one like a vasectomy but it's not the risks which dictated the policy on at what age a woman can have one but catholic dogma which should not happen in this day and age.

How on earth is this scare mongering? Its the truth.
I could accuse you of downplaying the risks of surgery. Just saying 'Oh sure all surgery carries risk' in a dismissive tone doesnt change the facts.

opinion guy

Svalbard wrote: »

Er, really..... Disgusting? Conspiracy theory? Is that not a tad OTT?

+1

Mirena, Implanon and Vasectomy are more effective than sterilisation.

Hmmm. Partially correct. From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods
Method Typical use failure rate % Perfect use failure rate %
Mirena 0.2 0.2
Implanon 0.05 0.05
Vasectomy 0.15 0.15
Tubal Ligation 0.5 0.5

They don't have a figure for hysterectomy but it is the most effective - but also he most drastic. But Mirena, Implanon and Vasectomy are all more effective than a woman having her tubes tied.

How on earth is this scare mongering? Its the truth.
I could accuse you of downplaying the risks of surgery. Just saying 'Oh sure all surgery carries risk' in a dismissive tone doesnt change the facts.

+1

Thaeydal I'm inclined to agree here. I have respect for your responses always so I mean no offence here but you are off the mark on this one I feel. I am the first to bash Catholic indoctrined attitudes in this country especially guilt ridden judgemental ones like you are suggesting. But thats not the case here. Hysterectomy is a big deal with various surgical and medical complications. I guarantee you very few surgeons would be prepared to do it in a 22 year old for example. Now to the 22 year old who posted I know you are full sure of what you want now. But at 32 you will have changed in a billion ways you can't imagine now. and at 42 you will have changed in a billion more. Doctors know this. And quite frequently they will see patients at 22 adamantly demanding they don't want kids and many many times they will see them change their minds by 32, or else by 42. Now I know you will say you are not one of those. But how is a doctor to know whether you are or you aren't? He isn't. So they play it according to the law of causing least harm. And also according to what will get them sued the least. And its just that simple. Yes, you might find surgeons in the UK for example who will do this operation. Its a bigger country. But I must say I'd wonder what percentage of surgeons in the uk would be prepared to do this in a young woman and how they are viewed by their peers. You should be very careful about seeing a surgeon who will do this. DO ask him about his success rates and complication rates for the procedure - then compare them to typical rates which I'm sure you can find online somewhere. Do google the surgeon and find out if he/she is in good standing. Ask him/her if he has any previous patients who might be willing to speak to you about their experiences.

Also if someone is 22 and considering this you should know - they almost certainly WON'T remove your ovaries at this age (unless for example there is a very strong likelihood of developing ovarian cancer). You would be far too young and the lifetime risk of developing osteoporosis would be huge for such a person. If you did have your ovaries removed you would have to be on long term meds to prevent osteoporosis. So having your womb removed should put a stop to monthly bleeding, but you would still suffer the same hormonal surges every month you would normally along with whatever other symptoms you get from that.

sam34

i wonder really is it a catholic thing at all?

i mean, isnt the catholic church's stance on contraception that it is only natural methods that are allowed?

hysterectomy certainly isnt natural!

i cant imagine the catholic ethos being "ok, once you have x number of kids then you can get a hysterectomy", it's more likely to be "no you cant have a hysterectomy, take your chances with the rhythm method and "accept with love the children god may give you""

from what i remember reading at the time, didnt michael neary use teh defence that some of the women wanted hysterectomies as means of contraception, but because he couldnt be seen to be doing that in a catholic hospital, he did the hysterectomy but claimed it was for medical reasons


***nb, i am NOT condoning what michael neary did, i'm merely illustrating my point**

i really think the current guidelines are there, not as a hangover of catholic control, but as an attempt to prevent major regrets later in life for women.

it may seem patronising and paternalistic, but the inherent intention is good, imo.

and, FWIW, i'm one of those women who does not want kids and will never have kids, and would potentialy be in teh market for tubal ligation if it were more readily available.

edit: now, i could be wrong, i'm no fan of the church and not 100% au fait with all their teaching, but that would ne my take on it. i know they have been and continue to be a blight on sexual and reproductive health, but lets not assume it all begins and ends with tehm!

mise23

I apologise in advance but I don't get the point of this thread.
I accept that some women say they never want to have children. I'm all for personal autonomy and freedom of choice.

Aren't there a whole variety of contraceptive methods out there a lot less drastic than having a hysterectomy or tubal ligation? If you're really phobic about getting pregnant you can use more than one method or not have sex in the first place. If these methods fail there's the morning after pill and abortion. If you have moral qualms about abortion you can give the child up for adoption.

Other posters have pointed out that people can change their mind and suddenly decide they want children after all, which you can't if you've had a hysterectomy or other potentially irreversible procedure.

As you can tell I'm fairly pragmatic. Don't let me air my views on IVF or I'll be crucified by every woman on boards.ie:eek: