Disruption to Dublin Bus services

howiya

coyle wrote: »

i don't know if anyone has mentioned it but the dublin bus website was completely offline from about 12:45 to 1:15....why, just why?!

Apparently there were 8,000 people trying to access it and it couldn't manage. Why bother having a website at all

howiya

ian_m wrote: »

Whats the story with buses first thing in the morning??

They're hoping to restore services in the morning as local authorities have promised an extensive gritting program. Bizarrely though their customer service line doesn't open till 07:00 despite buses being scheduled to run before this

richardjjd

KC61 wrote: »

Please try and remember that the company has an obligation to provide a safe working environment for its drivers and for the passengers. If that is rendered impossible by local authority inaction, then what are they to do?

I agree absolutely.

However, the company also has an obligation to try and communicate with its passengers. Their website was out of date for a critical couple of hours (nothing to do with it crashing); they have never embraced alternative channels (a previous poster mentioned bebo, twitter, facebook, boards.ie).

Aditionally, DB seem to consider that their customers have access to the web during working hours. Some / most / many don't.

I walked from Camden St to Connolly to get a train (a new experience for me). There were dozens of buses parked at the side of the road, but drivers didn't know what was going on and inspectors were nowhere to be seen.

Safety, of course, comes first. But it was a bad day for DB customer care.

DDigital

howiya wrote: »

The roads were obviously gritted overnight. Otherwise there wouldn't have been Dublin Bus services to withdraw.

The main arteries were fine this morning on my travels. Housing estates were bad, but we already knew that from last week. What Im suggesting is that overnight gritting was futile and that given we knew this snow was hitting the city by lunchtime gritting should have been ongoing all morning to prepare for it on major routes. Not all freaky weather hits when we are asleep in bed. Right? I just think that gritting directly ahead of forecast snowfall makes a difference. Its just something I learned from living in "snowy" countries. Gritters treat roads based on forecasts.

shltter

coyle wrote: »

i don't know if anyone has mentioned it but the dublin bus website was completely offline from about 12:45 to 1:15....why, just why?!

More people trying to access it than it was able to handle basically. All websites will crash if more people try to access it than it is designed to handle.
Could the site be improved so it could handle more requests yes of course but with any site you design it for what you think will be normal usage with some spare capacity not for the one day when multiples of the normal usage try to access it.

howiya

DDigital wrote: »

The main arteries were fine this morning on my travels. Housing estates were bad, but we already knew that from last week. What Im suggesting is that overnight gritting was futile and that given we knew this snow was hitting the city by lunchtime gritting should have been ongoing all morning to prepare for it on major routes. Not all freaky weather hits when we are asleep in bed. Right? I just think that gritting directly ahead of forecast snowfall makes a difference. Its just something I learned from living in "snowy" countries. Gritters treat roads based on forecasts.

Gritters stuck in rush hour traffic. That'll fix it

ian_m

howiya wrote: »

They're hoping to restore services in the morning as local authorities have promised an extensive gritting program. Bizarrely though their customer service line doesn't open till 07:00 despite buses being scheduled to run before this

Cheers. I noticed that. Was hoping someone could shed some light on the potential of just being able to get to work or not.

shltter

howiya wrote: »

Apparently there were 8,000 people trying to access it and it couldn't manage. Why bother having a website at all

If normal usage is say 2000 requests at any one time then you allow for say 4000 requests that will cope 99.9% of the time you don't design and pay for capacity you will only use 0.1% of the time that is the same for any site or service.
That is why mobile phone services collapse after a disaster because everyone tries to use the service at the one time and the system is not designed for everyone to use it at the one time.

shltter

People need to remember that this is not normal weather for Dublin ( maybe it will become normal but that is a different discussion)
Systems, equipment and procedures are not designed to deal with freak conditions if this happened every year in Dublin then we would have the systems and equipment to deal with it as other cities do.

That said I agree that Dublin Bus was definitely deficient in getting information out to passengers and their own staff.

KC61

ian_m wrote: »

Cheers. I noticed that. Was hoping someone could shed some light on the potential of just being able to get to work or not.

Until inspectors and bus drivers get out in the morning and see what the state of the roads is, then we're unlikely to know.

I would however, expect a service on each of the major corridors, provided the roads are gritted.

howiya

shltter wrote: »

That said I agree that Dublin Bus was definitely deficient in getting information out to passengers and their own staff.

That's all people are saying here. Don't think you'll find too many disagreeing with their safety first approach but it does need to be communicated better

shltter

one2one wrote: »

Im not a friend and I get on fine?

Someone copped it at DB presumably when the link went up first you needed a bebo account to view it.

shltter

KC61 wrote: »

Until inspectors and bus drivers get out in the morning and see what the state of the roads is, then we're unlikely to know.

I would however, expect a service on each of the major corridors, provided the roads are gritted.

Agreed no one knows at this stage what conditions will be like in the morning. It may be a case of playing it by ear and curtailing services as the first drivers report the conditions they meet. If the services go out at all !!

MiniD

There is no doubt that it was unsafe to operate buses this evening and I think the majority of posters here would agree the right decision was made.

As others pointed out, it's the poor customer service from Dublin Bus which really lets itself down. Even tonight, when thousands of bus passengers are wondering how they'll get to work tomorrow, Dublin Bus say they'll have an update and phone line operating from 7am. Personally, I was expecting a bit more. Considering bus services start in the city from 5.30, many people will already have started their journey by 7am.

I'm not sure how many people work in the Dublin Bus customer service team, but this is a time when every staff member should be working, overtime if necessary, with a proper plan of action. At a time when your customers want to know how you plan to do business, you really should make sure you have every area covered. Considering their website collapsed today, this would suggest a large number of passengers are turning to the web for information. Have any moves been made to create a Twitter account to update passengers on the move?

As I said, nobody blames Dublin Bus for canceling their service. Their operations manager gave a great overview of the situation on Radio 1 this evening. Passengers just get frustrated when information is patchy, misleading or non existent.

spongeman

ian_m wrote: »

Whats the story with buses first thing in the morning??

God knows. Probably too cold for them.

Public will be thrown to the wolves. Again.

shltter

howiya wrote: »

That's all people are saying here. Don't think you'll find too many disagreeing with their safety first approach but it does need to be communicated better

I agree and I understand why the website went down and in fairness I would not criticise DB for that really if every member of this site all went for the same page at the same time the site would more than likely crash as well.
But there are other options like twitter, bebo etc etc to get information out, I think part of the problem is that DB did not know what was happening never mind passing the information on.

KC61

howiya wrote: »

That's all people are saying here. Don't think you'll find too many disagreeing with their safety first approach but it does need to be communicated better

No one will argue with that.

However one poster in particular did not think that the safety first approach was correct. THAT is what I have a serious problem with.

howiya

spongeman wrote: »

God knows. Probably too cold for them.

Public will be thrown to the wolves. Again.

I'd rather be thrown to the wolves than be a victim in an accident that could have been avoided

stop

Safety first, of course.

No updates between 12:45 and 15:45 (and claiming the 15:45 was posted at 15:00) is atrocious. I think that's what sensible people are annoyed about, rather than the cancellations itself.

spongeman

stop wrote: »

Safety first, of course.

No updates between 12:45 and 15:45 (and claiming the 15:45 was posted at 15:00) is atrocious. I think that's what sensible people are annoyed about, rather than the cancellations itself.

Good ould Dublin Bus and the Council.

Making a balls out of everything. Getting stuck in a few cms of snow.

DDigital

howiya wrote: »

Gritters stuck in rush hour traffic. That'll fix it

10am to 1pm? Hardly rush hour. Met Eireann had the arrival of snow down to a particular time frame. Whats the point in all this met science if it isn't used effectively.

Too many excuses in this country and too many prepared to accept it while they complain about stupid things like why DB couldn't get a bus moving along an iced up road.

howiya

DDigital wrote: »

10am to 1pm? Hardly rush hour. Met Eireann had the arrival of snow down to a particular time frame. Whats the point in all this met science if it isn't used effectively.

Too many excuses in this country and too many prepared to accept it while they complain about stupid things like why DB couldn't get a bus moving along an iced up road.

My point being that the City Council say they will have 7 gritters out between half 3 and 6am. In this two and a half hour window they will grit 300km of roadway. I don't think this would be feasible within the hours of 10am to 1pm when traffic is taken into consideration.

Also if guys are out from 3.30 in the morning, their shifts will likely be over around 10 or 11 in the morning. Who grits the roads then?

There has been lots of speculation regarding whether or not the councils have the resources to undertake the gritting programmes that are required but that's for another thread

spongeman

howiya wrote: »

My point being that the City Council say they will have 7 gritters out between half 3 and 6am. In this two and a half hour window they will grit 300km of roadway. I don't think this would be feasible within the hours of 10am to 1pm when traffic is taken into consideration.

Also if guys are out from 3.30 in the morning, their shifts will likely be over around 10 or 11 in the morning. Who grits the roads then?

There has been lots of speculation regarding whether or not the councils have the resources to undertake the gritting programmes that are required but that's for another thread

Nobody grits the road then my friend. because at that point they will have run out of grit.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Ham'nd'egger

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Any that braved it, that is. I dropped a woman off at Heuston and could have had my pick of fares except I was off to another pick up which I had to call off as the traffic was too congested to even guess a time on. I didn't see as many cabs out as I would have expected; perhaps they too were stuck out in the suburbs (I live close enough to town so am handier for town)

AlekSmart

I think part of the problem is that DB did not know what was happening never mind passing the information on.

Today would have to count as one of the worst days ever for Dublin`s status as a European Capital City.

However I`m heartened that most posters do appear to differentiate between a total collapse of the City`s Infrastructure and a collapse of Dublin Bus per se.

There was a rapid deterioration in driving conditions which has specific effects on a City BUS operation which is by nature a Stop/Go affair.

Interestingly the modern fixation with accessibility now ensures that Busdrivers MUST pull in to the kerb or face discipline.

This process however,in the current conditions aften proves the undoing of the Driver as he/she is then unable to regain traction to re-enter the traffic flow,not helped by motorists who will burst a blood vessel to actively prevent a bus getting in front of THEIR car.

Todays conditions also led to buses (mine included) simply losing ALL adhesion and sliding backwards,forwards AND sideways irrespective of whatever control inputs come from the driver.

This was a particularly stressful at many points in the City as buses (mine included) slid towards some of the doziest pedestrians and cyclists I have ever encountered....Mrs..if you see a large blue and yellow double deck sliding crabways towards you,with the driver flashing headlights and waving at YOU,then run as fast as you can...DON`T stand there waiting for the thing to stop..cos it CAN`T.

That element was of huge relevance today as many drivers simply could not guarantee the full and safe control of their Bus under the conditions as presented.

The dangers,and they were VERY real dangers,that were increasingly occurring came at very slow speed indeed.
The speed issue was irrelevant,as if some 11 tonnes of Double Deck Bus presses into the human frame at even .5Kmh it WILL kill it.

The increasing possibility of that occurring in the City Centre played no small part in the somewhat protracted decision to withdraw services.

Its all about Risk Management or in this case Risk Elimination.


The entire communication issue is worth comment too.
The Customer Service aspect does indeed require close review and IMMEDIATE improvement.

However of far greater safety relevance was the failure of the Central Control system to adequately control or issue up to date information to Drivers,who could then pass that on to their passengers on board.

Dublin Bus has been badly caught offside here as the introduction of the Central Control in advance of full implimentation of the Automatic Vehicle Location facility must be seen as a mistake.

I understand that at least one EU City visited by Dublin Bus management in a fact-finding capacity subsequently decided to revert to Local Control due to it being dissatisfied with the actual gains from the Centralization process.

In Dublins Case,I feel that a return to a more Local form of control would be of greater benefit to customers.
In the old days,each garage had a Mobile Inspector,one of whose duties in conditions like todays,was to travel about the Garage Routes and assess the conditions and to provide support as required.

There was a constant liason between the Depot Mobile and the Garage itself which allowed the Garage Inspectorate to usually give accurate answers to telephone queries.

That is no longer the case and it`s fair to say that communication between Control and Drivers today was at best patchy,and at worst non-existent.

What was noticable today was the sad example of just how bad things are in terms of our self-respect and ability to do stuff for ourselves.

Why I wonder,was it only the Middle-Aged,Elderly or Women that I saw attempting to clear snow from footpaths and premises.

What prompted two twenty-something half-wits to throw some very hard-packed snowballs at close-range at the side windows of my Bus in Dorset St,frightening the life out of the elderly women sitting the othe other side of the glass?

The pair of slack-jawed morons could only roar with laughter and jump about like the apes they are most closely related to in preference to actually attempting to do something positive with their energy.

Picking up a fricking shovel or brush would have been doubtless beneath their dignity as young hip Irish "Lads".

Probably ferarful of staining their tracksuits or ruining a burgeoning criminal career due to exertion,all this pair of Celtic Bud`s could manage was a good attempt at smashing something,all the better if it`s publically owned like a Bus.

The Health and Safety culture has essentially castrated us as an effective force nationally.
We sit transfixed and immobile like a rabbit caught in the headlamps glare,all the while waiting for somebody to come along and get us out of the mess.....some day very soon,we`ll be left waiting and the only light we`ll see is the fast disappearing tail-light of the last train from Deadsville. :mad:

AlekSmart

Surely not every single road in Dublin was unusable? Would it not have been better off left up to each driver to decide if it was safe to run or not. Seen several people waiting at bus stops not knowing what was going on, several elderly people too.

Must say though taxi drivers must have made a killing the ones that were out because every single rank in town was empty with huge ques.

I would suggest to Cap`n Morgan that for a significant period of time today that yes indeed every single road over which Dublin Bus operates WAS unusable.

It was unheard of for Controllers to INSTRUCT Drivers to cease operations.

The initial message was directed to Drivers already at a terminus,and instructed them to remain there.
Approx 15 mins later ALL drivers were INSTRUCTED to pull in at the next safe location and await instructions.
A Third instruction followed to those Drivers who had disregarded the initial one....THAT left Drivers under no illusion that the Company was in the mood for operations in the conditions.

If,as we now hear the City Council can only muster 7 Gritting trucks to operate on the morrow,then we appear to have a major problem with the status of the City itself...7 is Nowhere sufficient to comprehensively cover the Capitals roads and streets network.

shltter

AlekSmart wrote: »

Today would have to count as one of the worst days ever for Dublin`s status as a European Capital City.

However I`m heartened that most posters do appear to differentiate between a total collapse of the City`s Infrastructure and a collapse of Dublin Bus per se.

There was a rapid deterioration in driving conditions which has specific effects on a City BUS operation which is by nature a Stop/Go affair.

Interestingly the modern fixation with accessibility now ensures that Busdrivers MUST pull in to the kerb or face discipline.

This process however,in the current conditions aften proves the undoing of the Driver as he/she is then unable to regain traction to re-enter the traffic flow,not helped by motorists who will burst a blood vessel to actively prevent a bus getting in front of THEIR car.

Todays conditions also led to buses (mine included) simply losing ALL adhesion and sliding backwards,forwards AND sideways irrespective of whatever control inputs come from the driver.

This was a particularly stressful at many points in the City as buses (mine included) slid towards some of the doziest pedestrians and cyclists I have ever encountered....Mrs..if you see a large blue and yellow double deck sliding crabways towards you,with the driver flashing headlights and waving at YOU,then run as fast as you can...DON`T stand there waiting for the thing to stop..cos it CAN`T.

That element was of huge relevance today as many drivers simply could not guarantee the full and safe control of their Bus under the conditions as presented.

The dangers,and they were VERY real dangers,that were increasingly occurring came at very slow speed indeed.
The speed issue was irrelevant,as if some 11 tonnes of Double Deck Bus presses into the human frame at even .5Kmh it WILL kill it.

The increasing possibility of that occurring in the City Centre played no small part in the somewhat protracted decision to withdraw services.

Its all about Risk Management or in this case Risk Elimination.


The entire communication issue is worth comment too.
The Customer Service aspect does indeed require close review and IMMEDIATE improvement.

However of far greater safety relevance was the failure of the Central Control system to adequately control or issue up to date information to Drivers,who could then pass that on to their passengers on board.

Dublin Bus has been badly caught offside here as the introduction of the Central Control in advance of full implimentation of the Automatic Vehicle Location facility must be seen as a mistake.

I understand that at least one EU City visited by Dublin Bus management in a fact-finding capacity subsequently decided to revert to Local Control due to it being dissatisfied with the actual gains from the Centralization process.

In Dublins Case,I feel that a return to a more Local form of control would be of greater benefit to customers.
In the old days,each garage had a Mobile Inspector,one of whose duties in conditions like todays,was to travel about the Garage Routes and assess the conditions and to provide support as required.

There was a constant liason between the Depot Mobile and the Garage itself which allowed the Garage Inspectorate to usually give accurate answers to telephone queries.

That is no longer the case and it`s fair to say that communication between Control and Drivers today was at best patchy,and at worst non-existent.

What was noticable today was the sad example of just how bad things are in terms of our self-respect and ability to do stuff for ourselves.

Why I wonder,was it only the Middle-Aged,Elderly or Women that I saw attempting to clear snow from footpaths and premises.

What prompted two twenty-something half-wits to throw some very hard-packed snowballs at close-range at the side windows of my Bus in Dorset St,frightening the life out of the elderly women sitting the othe other side of the glass?

The pair of slack-jawed morons could only roar with laughter and jump about like the apes they are most closely related to in preference to actually attempting to do something positive with their energy.

Picking up a fricking shovel or brush would have been doubtless beneath their dignity as young hip Irish "Lads".

Probably ferarful of staining their tracksuits or ruining a burgeoning criminal career due to exertion,all this pair of Celtic Bud`s could manage was a good attempt at smashing something,all the better if it`s publically owned like a Bus.

The Health and Safety culture has essentially castrated us as an effective force nationally.
We sit transfixed and immobile like a rabbit caught in the headlamps glare,all the while waiting for somebody to come along and get us out of the mess.....some day very soon,we`ll be left waiting and the only light we`ll see is the fast disappearing tail-light of the last train from Deadsville. :mad:

I agree completely on the central control of course all this was said when it was being suggested but nobody listens.
Also I can't see how this is even saving money same number of inspectors in the depot and the same number doing radio just doing it from a place where they have no face to face contact with the drivers.
Today is a prime example of how central control does not work, before the controllers would have seen the drivers starting, finishing and breaking much easier to get a handle on what is happening. Now it is not unusual to be talking to someone on the radio who does not even know where your bus goes never mind your name.

Ham'nd'egger

Alek, one thing you have picked up that few posts have talked about is the shocking driver and pedestrian behavior in and around the snowy and icy roads that we experienced today.

Cars creeping up an extra 2 foot and hence blocking junctions etc are bad enough but today they really showed up to cause havoc while the amount of jaywalking/jayskidding people as motorists try to safely move off already skidding cars has made many of us skip more than a few heart beats.

And as for the 6,000 rev in first gear merchants:rolleyes: I am shocked that nobody yet has been killed on the roads tonight though I may yet not know of it.

nullzero

AlekSmart wrote: »

What was noticable today was the sad example of just how bad things are in terms of our self-respect and ability to do stuff for ourselves.

Why I wonder,was it only the Middle-Aged,Elderly or Women that I saw attempting to clear snow from footpaths and premises.

What prompted two twenty-something half-wits to throw some very hard-packed snowballs at close-range at the side windows of my Bus in Dorset St,frightening the life out of the elderly women sitting the othe other side of the glass?

The pair of slack-jawed morons could only roar with laughter and jump about like the apes they are most closely related to in preference to actually attempting to do something positive with their energy.

Picking up a fricking shovel or brush would have been doubtless beneath their dignity as young hip Irish "Lads".

Very good point.
I'm the only person on my road of 16 houses who made any sort of effort to clear the snow off the road.
I cleared my driveway, the section of road out side my house, I gritted the surface with the sand I bought before xmas in anticipation of the bad weather which cost a megre €2.99 per bag from Homebase.
I live in a housing estate in Dublin, and our cul de sac in north facing, resulting in fvck all sunlight in the winter which means we have ice on our street long after the thaw has taken effect.
One of my neighbours drove past me and though his opened car window remarked that it would be great if I would do the same outside his house. I told him I had enough sand for him to use if he wanted to clear his patch, surprise surprise, it hasn't been touched.
As a society, Irish people always want somebody else to do something about whatever problem we're facing at the time.
If everyone on my street had gotten off their arse's for one hour we'd have a safe gritted street and we could feel some collective pride in ourselves. Instead my neighbours chose to stay inside and ignore each other as normal, what a country.
I don't fall into any of the age groups you mentioned, I'm 26 myself, I think you either have a "can do" attitude or you wallow in your mess waiting for someone else to come and save you, which unfortunately seems to be the attitude most people take these days.