Harry Potter - christian or not

pprendeville

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and the subject of Harry Potter came up. This particular fella up until last year was a bit of a rogue as they say. He was out in San Giovanni in September 2008 and saw some mighty strange things that completely reignited his faith.

Anyway, when Harry Potter cropped up yesterday he advised me to get rid of it straight away as it isn't a very Chrisitan book. It's very dark and reading it can attract negative spiritual energy which I suppose when you think about it, could be fairly true. I remember one part of the 1st book where Voldemort had been living in one the teachers bodies (the back of his head to be precise) and was seen drinking the blood of a unicorn o gain strength. This in itself is a bit scary and dark so I guess he has a point. He also advised me to get rid of the Lord of the Rings. I'm a bit skeptical about this though. I thought JRR Tolkien was an avid Christian and the theme of this book seems to be fairly Christian.

So could I get some opinions from some honest Christians.

On another note, has anyone read a book called The Fuzz Factor?

PDN

It's not Christian - but neither is most literature.

I don't think it's anti-Christian either.

Antbert

Um... You do know it's fiction yeah?

Sorry, I'm not a Christian. I just don't at all see the problem with fiction.

Klingon Hamlet

Wouldn't Harry Potter follow the same path as a saviour? I mean he's an unassuming human blessed with a special gift who slowly comes to realise the breadth and scale of evil around him, and is sometimes betrayed by people close to him. All the while the dark powers tempt him, he has a weakness in him just as any other human does, but he persevers despite any physical or spcial cruelty elivered upon him. He is the one destined to rid humanity of a dark and dangerous overlord, his destiny is intertwined with the dark lord's.

Why is it that to be Christian is to insist that all fantasymust first fit the rules of Christian life? I mean, was Aragron Christian? What about Kirk? Jack Sparrow?

Fantasy is fantasy because it's not real, and cannot be seen as influencing minds or souls because it's designed to counter-act one's own common sense for the sake of entertainment. It is not a harbinger of dakr thoughts or a magnet for evl spirits. their very existence is used as plot devices and nothing more.

PS I'm agnostic, I repsect people's faith, but I hate when people get so caught up in things like this. It's art, entertianment, not a competitor to the Bible.

PPS Lord of the Rings is inherently Christian. Read The Silmarillion for proof. Your firend sees the gods as pagan gods. The stories however represent them as angels, servants of God / Aulwe / Zeus / Jehova

pprendeville

I just went on a really good website http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/harrypotter.html

Gives a great insight into the book and it's Christian values or lack of them. I'd have to agree with the writer of this article in that while it is not very obvious on the surface, but the whole theme of the book desensitises children (the specific age group to whom it this book is aimed) to the dangers of magic practices and the occult (something I know little about and would like to remain so). Magic

"most Christians recognize the good vs. evil element as being clearly delineated. Evil is evil, and good is good, and good is promoted while evil is not.

But in the Potter series, the line is not so clear. The “good” guys practice “white magic”, while the bad guys practice the “Dark Arts”. Readers become fascinated with the magic used (explained in remarkable detail). Yet God is clear in Scripture that any practice of magic is an “abomination” to him. God doesn't distinguish between “white” and “dark” magic since they both originate from the same source.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who …practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you."

Deut. 18:10-14

Now I'm not a Bible basher myself but this certainly seems to hit the nail on the head. I gave these books on audio as Christmas presents. How will I convince the person they're not good. Haha.

pprendeville

Has anyone read Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged?

Turtwig

pprendeville wrote: »

I just went on a really good website http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/harrypotter.html

Gives a great insight into the book and it's Christian values or lack of them. I'd have to agree with the writer of this article in that while it is not very obvious on the surface, but the whole theme of the book desensitises children (the specific age group to whom it this book is aimed) to the dangers of magic practices and the occult (something I know little about and would like to remain so). Magic

"most Christians recognize the good vs. evil element as being clearly delineated. Evil is evil, and good is good, and good is promoted while evil is not.

But in the Potter series, the line is not so clear. The “good” guys practice “white magic”, while the bad guys practice the “Dark Arts”. Readers become fascinated with the magic used (explained in remarkable detail). Yet God is clear in Scripture that any practice of magic is an “abomination” to him. God doesn't distinguish between “white” and “dark” magic since they both originate from the same source.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who …practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you."

Deut. 18:10-14

Now I'm not a Bible basher myself but this certainly seems to hit the nail on the head. I gave these books on audio as Christmas presents. How will I convince the person they're not good. Haha.

I'm not a Christian, but I just thought I'd warn you that Christiananswersnet is a rubbish website for providing answers to Christian dilemnas. It's so bad it's actually quite fun to read sometimes.

pprendeville

cheers but it made sense to me.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Fanny Cradock

pprendeville wrote: »

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and the subject of Harry Potter came up. This particular fella up until last year was a bit of a rogue as they say. He was out in San Giovanni in September 2008 and saw some mighty strange things that completely reignited his faith.

Anyway, when Harry Potter cropped up yesterday he advised me to get rid of it straight away as it isn't a very Chrisitan book. It's very dark and reading it can attract negative spiritual energy which I suppose when you think about it, could be fairly true. I remember one part of the 1st book where Voldemort had been living in one the teachers bodies (the back of his head to be precise) and was seen drinking the blood of a unicorn o gain strength. This in itself is a bit scary and dark so I guess he has a point. He also advised me to get rid of the Lord of the Rings. I'm a bit skeptical about this though. I thought JRR Tolkien was an avid Christian and the theme of this book seems to be fairly Christian.

So could I get some opinions from some honest Christians.

On another note, has anyone read a book called The Fuzz Factor?

Be careful who you listen to! If your friend is being true to his own reasoning, he would probably have to start burning The Chronicles of Narnia because they contain dark elements and magic.

PDN

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Tolkien was one of the translators of the Jerusalem Bible - the Book of Jonah was his work if I remember corrrectly.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Antbert

I don't see how any of the actual themes in Harry Potter are relevant to your religion if you realise it's fiction. Your friend must not own a television. I've seen adverts with... TALKING ANIMALS.

As for desensitising children to magic well... Children get that it's fiction, even if you don't.

Antbert

pprendeville wrote: »

It's very dark and reading it can attract negative spiritual energy which I suppose when you think about it, could be fairly true.

OK right I only just noticed that bit. I must've skimmed the first time.

What?!

It's a story book! I'm trying to look at this from the point of view of someone who believes there's such a thing as spiritual energy and I still don't get how you reached that conclusion.

Iompair

I'd have to agree with most of the above re Harry Potter, not a danger to anybodys spiritual well being.

About Tolkien, I read an interesting book a few years ago by a guy called Joseph Pearce called Tolkien Man and Myth. He really brought forward the underlying christian myths that run through the Lord of The Rings and The Simarillion, more worthy of a read then Christian Answers.

Stephentlig

pprendeville wrote: »

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and the subject of Harry Potter came up. This particular fella up until last year was a bit of a rogue as they say. He was out in San Giovanni in September 2008 and saw some mighty strange things that completely reignited his faith.

Anyway, when Harry Potter cropped up yesterday he advised me to get rid of it straight away as it isn't a very Chrisitan book. It's very dark and reading it can attract negative spiritual energy which I suppose when you think about it, could be fairly true. I remember one part of the 1st book where Voldemort had been living in one the teachers bodies (the back of his head to be precise) and was seen drinking the blood of a unicorn o gain strength. This in itself is a bit scary and dark so I guess he has a point. He also advised me to get rid of the Lord of the Rings. I'm a bit skeptical about this though. I thought JRR Tolkien was an avid Christian and the theme of this book seems to be fairly Christian.

So could I get some opinions from some honest Christians.

On another note, has anyone read a book called The Fuzz Factor?

Jesus Christ is truth, and any twist on truth is a lie.

Reading them wont do you any harm, but if it isnt true whats the point really? I'd rather read the Bible and get the real supernatural story, knowing that its true as opposed to reading someone elses imagination that leads me down the path of fantasy and gradually away from my relationship with Jesus. an hour spent reading a book of fairy tales could be an hour reading the Bible and giving glory to God by praying his scriptures and offering it up to him for the souls in purgatory.

thats my 2 cents.

and before I finish, be careful of some friends, I had this woman in my house and she kept me up all night talking nonsense about the devil being in dogs, that she had healing bumps on her hands etc etc, I just stayed silent, lol at the end of the longggggg conversation she said, ''well I tell you one thing stephen your a good listener'' lol

God bless

Stephen

Coriolanus

Stephentlig wrote: »

Reading them wont do you any harm, but if it isnt true whats the point really?

You don't read any fiction, Stephen?

Antbert

Stephentlig wrote: »

Reading them wont do you any harm, but if it isnt true whats the point really? I'd rather read the Bible and get the real supernatural story, knowing that its true as opposed to reading someone elses imagination that leads me down the path of fantasy and gradually away from my relationship with Jesus.

Your relationship with Jesus must be pretty weak.

Stephentlig

Nevore wrote: »

You don't read any fiction, Stephen?

None whatsoever. I just like the plain aul truth. that said I probably do read fiction in my daily life without noticing it like fables in newspapers but I do try my best to avoid it on a daily basis, sometimes I'll sit through a fantasy film to please the wife. because we can never stop fiction as it is created by the evil one to lead people down the land of lies one could also say that you could use it against him and pick out how the truths have been twisted in it and reveal this to people, because the Holt Spirit is at work in us all christian and non christian alike but because of our conditioned state it comes out blurry and distorted in these films but most people hate it when you dog fiction because your smashing their illusion and they react according to their conditioned state of mind.

for example take a film like the matrix, we see in it that there is a conditioned world and there is another world, one of truth, and there is a world made up and all the people are programmed.

its the same with christianity, we have been conditioned by the world to react according to our conditioned state, such as standing out in the rain all day queing for your fav bands concert tickets and then your told there is none left, you get pissed off, another person in the same situation reacts differently and with kindness and compassion and couldnt care less even after all the suffering he has been through. why the difference in reaction? one has been conditioned in the right state, but the former was conditioned in the wrong, and there is a lot of the former.

the agents in the film are the enemy ( devil ) and the other people are the good guys, the people who chose that narrow path that very few do, and these people in christianity are whats known as the mystics, very few people actually go down this road, there are a lot of Christians out there who are going to mass and doing their thing, this is ok, but the Gospel offers us a way out of this world, it gives us a cure, and when we take that path we are chased down by the agents and hated and booed for it.

which is why Jesus is the ultimate rebel against the world, young teenagers think they are being rebellious, when they are just going along with the norm unknownst to themselves, but to go against the norm one has to be like Jesus, who was content with what he had, was chaste and denied the sin of the flesh and was in complete obedience to love ( his father ).

the weapons we use are different than that of the matrix, our weapon is humility, prayer and above all Love and its this that disables the enemy.

Stephentlig

Antbert wrote: »

Your relationship with Jesus must be pretty weak.

Yes your right, it is pretty weak and could be a lot stronger.

Antbert

Stephentlig wrote: »

for example take a film like the matrix, we see in it that there is a conditioned world and there is another world, one of truth, and there is a world made up and all the people are programmed.

I'm just surprised you watched The Matrix.

its the same with christianity, we have been conditioned by the world to react according to our conditioned state, such as standing out in the rain all day queing for your fav bands concert tickets and then your told there is none left, you get pissed off, another person in the same situation reacts differently and with kindness and compassion and couldnt care less even after all the suffering he has been through. why the difference in reaction? one has been conditioned in the right state, but the former was conditioned in the wrong, and there is a lot of the former.

How exactly do you act with kindness and compassion to being told that they're out of tickets?

krudler

because we can never stop fiction as it is created by the evil one to lead people down the land of lies one could also say that you could use it against him and pick out how the truths have been twisted in it and reveal this to people, because the Holt Spirit is at work in us all christian and non christian alike but because of our conditioned state it comes out blurry and distorted in these films but most people hate it when you dog fiction because your smashing their illusion and they react according to their conditioned state of mind.

Wow.....just WOW, so every story, movie, and tale every created is evil? so all the millions of people who have read Peter Pan, or Harry Potter, or watched Star Wars, and been happy to be taken out of the miserable existence of real life for a few hours to be entertained was just being led down an evil path?

Stephentlig

krudler wrote: »

Wow.....just WOW, so every story, movie, and tale every created is evil? so all the millions of people who have read Peter Pan, or Harry Potter, or watched Star Wars, and been happy to be taken out of the miserable existence of real life for a few hours to be entertained was just being led down an evil path?

thats it, see, miserable existence you call it, these films take you away and they give you the thrill, just like alcohol does, whats ironic is people get drunk to combat stress but its exactly the thing that creates it.

if we cant be happy now and always in a state of happiness, then we are sick and belong to the world, the Gospel teaches you how to be happy in every -as you call it- miserable situation and to live a life of spiritual perfection and live out your heaven on earth before returning home.

if we need things to be ( what you call ) ''happy'' then there is something wrong with us. thhat is not a state of happiness they are just thrills, but after the thrill we come down and are soon bored or depressed again.

I understand this conversation could go on forever, but I shall leave it at this point as its quite a lengthy discussion that I dont have time for.

God bless
Stephen.

philologos

Stephenlig: Some fiction has managed to provoke some of the most important thought in history. I've yet to read this, but it is one that is certainly on my reading list, but The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky is critically acclaimed by the current Pope, the current Archbishop of Canterbury, Albert Einstein, and Sigmund Freud amongst other thinkers for it's dealing with the great questions about God and free will.

We can't rule out the value of fiction in demonstrating points of substance. Often although fiction isn't true, it reflects truth about our lives and our existence.

krudler

Stephentlig wrote: »

thats it, see, miserable existence you call it, these films take you away and they give you the thrill, just like alcohol does, whats ironic is people get drunk to combat stress but its exactly the thing that creates it.

if we cant be happy now and always in a state of happiness, then we are sick and belong to the world, the Gospel teaches you how to be happy in every -as you call it- miserable situation and to live a life of spiritual perfection and live out your heaven on earth before returning home.

if we need things to be ( what you call ) ''happy'' then there is something wrong with us. thhat is not a state of happiness they are just thrills, but after the thrill we come down and are soon bored or depressed again.

I understand this conversation could go on forever, but I shall leave it at this point as its quite a lengthy discussion that I dont have time for.

God bless
Stephen.

Would you like some sugar lumps for that high horse of yours?

The Mad Hatter

Stephentlig wrote: »

None whatsoever. I just like the plain aul truth. that said I probably do read fiction in my daily life without noticing it like fables in newspapers but I do try my best to avoid it on a daily basis, sometimes I'll sit through a fantasy film to please the wife. because we can never stop fiction as it is created by the evil one to lead people down the land of lies one could also say that you could use it against him and pick out how the truths have been twisted in it and reveal this to people, because the Holt Spirit is at work in us all christian and non christian alike but because of our conditioned state it comes out blurry and distorted in these films but most people hate it when you dog fiction because your smashing their illusion and they react according to their conditioned state of mind.

for example take a film like the matrix, we see in it that there is a conditioned world and there is another world, one of truth, and there is a world made up and all the people are programmed.

its the same with christianity, we have been conditioned by the world to react according to our conditioned state, such as standing out in the rain all day queing for your fav bands concert tickets and then your told there is none left, you get pissed off, another person in the same situation reacts differently and with kindness and compassion and couldnt care less even after all the suffering he has been through. why the difference in reaction? one has been conditioned in the right state, but the former was conditioned in the wrong, and there is a lot of the former.

the agents in the film are the enemy ( devil ) and the other people are the good guys, the people who chose that narrow path that very few do, and these people in christianity are whats known as the mystics, very few people actually go down this road, there are a lot of Christians out there who are going to mass and doing their thing, this is ok, but the Gospel offers us a way out of this world, it gives us a cure, and when we take that path we are chased down by the agents and hated and booed for it.

which is why Jesus is the ultimate rebel against the world, young teenagers think they are being rebellious, when they are just going along with the norm unknownst to themselves, but to go against the norm one has to be like Jesus, who was content with what he had, was chaste and denied the sin of the flesh and was in complete obedience to love ( his father ).

the weapons we use are different than that of the matrix, our weapon is humility, prayer and above all Love and its this that disables the enemy.

You see, this is the problem with Hollywood - it supports infantile notions of good and evil.

Don't get me wrong, The Matrix is a very entertaining blockbuster, and does (unusually for science fiction thrillers) raise questions about consciousness, freedom and the nature of reality. Remember, Stephen, when you're cheering on the "good guys" in that film, they're working to free themselves from subjugation to a greater, invisible force which controls their lives from birth to death. These people choose a potentially miserable existence in the real world over a fantastical one in the world that's been created for them. There's also the character Cypher, who is quite obviously an allegory for the religious mind, choosing to be input back into the fantasy world, and killing for it.

But real morality is more complex than black-and-white, good-and-evil nonsense. The Harry Potter series is flawed in many ways, but it does draw characters extremely carefully, and shows (and allows us to follow) an adolescent growing up to see the illusions of simple reality decay. Yes, there is a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in the story, but between these two there are so many shades of grey. Even the noblest characters within it are shown to have done things they are ashamed of, and many of the darkest characters are redeemed in small or large ways.

Fiction is not a lie, it is a distorted mirror. It allows us to see the world from a different perspective, and thus to understand ourselves better.

Stephentlig

Jakkass wrote: »

Stephenlig: Some fiction has managed to provoke some of the most important thought in history. I've yet to read this, but it is one that is certainly on my reading list, but The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky is critically acclaimed by the current Pope, the current Archbishop of Canterbury, Albert Einstein, and Sigmund Freud amongst other thinkers for it's dealing with the great questions about God and free will.

We can't rule out the value of fiction in demonstrating points of substance. Often although fiction isn't true, it reflects truth about our lives and our existence.

I know I said I wouldnt continue it, but here it is....

the pope is not infallible in his thoughts but with respect can be challenged.

if you read St.Pauls letters to timothy you'll see that he tells him to avoid myths and fables that lead away from truth.

philologos

If a story can get us thinking about the truth, surely it isn't a bad thing?

I'd agree with you that a lot of fiction isn't worth our time, but there is some that is certainly.

Stephentlig

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

You see, this is the problem with Hollywood - it supports infantile notions of good and evil.

Don't get me wrong, The Matrix is a very entertaining blockbuster, and does (unusually for science fiction thrillers) raise questions about consciousness, freedom and the nature of reality. Remember, Stephen, when you're cheering on the "good guys" in that film, they're working to free themselves from subjugation to a greater, invisible force which controls their lives from birth to death. These people choose a potentially miserable existence in the real world over a fantastical one in the world that's been created for them. There's also the character Cypher, who is quite obviously an allegory for the religious mind, choosing to be input back into the fantasy world, and killing for it.

But real morality is more complex than black-and-white, good-and-evil nonsense. The Harry Potter series is flawed in many ways, but it does draw characters extremely carefully, and shows (and allows us to follow) an adolescent growing up to see the illusions of simple reality decay. Yes, there is a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in the story, but between these two there are so many shades of grey. Even the noblest characters within it are shown to have done things they are ashamed of, and many of the darkest characters are redeemed in small or large ways.

Fiction is not a lie, it is a distorted mirror. It allows us to see the world from a different perspective, and thus to understand ourselves better.

very interesting post mad hatter, Yes they chose a miserable existence, just like Christians who choose a life of poverty, the only difference is they are happy in this poverty or at least should be.

but I'm afraid you have not convinced me of your position that it isnt a lie, the devil in scripture would use scripture and put a twist on it, thus it was presented as a lie and was not presented as in its true exegesis. fiction ( although distorted truths as we say lie in it ) they are non the less distorted and these truths are not presented in a Christian way and are therefore a lie.

Antbert

Stephentlig wrote: »

thats it, see, miserable existence you call it, these films take you away and they give you the thrill, just like alcohol does, whats ironic is people get drunk to combat stress but its exactly the thing that creates it.

Do you never feel miserable?

if we need things to be ( what you call ) ''happy'' then there is something wrong with us. thhat is not a state of happiness they are just thrills, but after the thrill we come down and are soon bored or depressed again.

You're still talking about watching a movie yeah...?

The Mad Hatter

Stephentlig wrote: »

very interesting post mad hatter

I'm glad you think so, but you seem to have missed the substance of it.