My Problem with sex

LegacyUser

Hi there,

I'm a virgin but I thought it would be good to share my rationale for remaining one. Basically, my issue is that I'm a not particularly attractive 21 year old male. Therefore I find attractive women attractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. However, I find unattractive women unattractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. The problem is that I am not particularly attractive and will never be able to have sex with someone I'm attracted to (Because they would not be attracted to me) ERGO: Logically, I should be having sex with unattractive people simply because I'm unattractive. But this doesn't work because I cannot get aroused by people I'm not attracted to.

I think beautiful people are in the enviable position of being able to take a moral position when it comes to having sex. Unattractive people are expected to settle for somebody they don't find attractive, basically in the interests of continuing the species. If I cannot get aroused by unnattractive women, and choose to remain a virgin until I'm forced to 'settle', does that make me a wierdo? Or logical?

beauty101

why should you settle for some1 who your not attracted to?

No it doesn't make u weird, I think its sad when guys have sex with ugly girls just for the sake of it.

Sex should be with some1 your attracted to.

And just cos u don't think you're attractive doesn't mean a girl you would consider "attractive" will agree with u

Overheal

Why dont you consider yourself attractive?

LegacyUser

beauty101 wrote: »

why should you settle for some1 who your not attracted to?

No it doesn't make u weird, I think its sad when guys have sex with ugly girls just for the sake of it.

Sex should be with some1 your attracted to.

And just cos u don't think you're attractive doesn't mean a girl you would consider "attractive" will agree with u

A kid can always dream

And to Overheal: How do I know? The mirror doesn't late mate.

LegacyUser

beauty101 wrote: »

No it doesn't make u weird, I think its sad when guys have sex with ugly girls just for the sake of it.

Also, you say right there that you think its sad when guys have sex with ugly girls just for the sake of it. In this scenario I'm the ugly girl finally getting some sexual release. I can only assume that you have no experience of being an ugly person, otherwise you would understand how humiliating that comment is!

Zaph

beauty101, we don't allow text speak in this forum so please refrain from using it in the future.

Thanks

beauty101

probel wrote: »

Also, you say right there that you think its sad when guys have sex with ugly girls just for the sake of it. In this scenario I'm the ugly girl finally getting some sexual release. I can only assume that you have no experience of being an ugly person, otherwise you would understand how humiliating that comment is!

I'm trying to help you not humiliate you.

Overheal

probel wrote: »

And to Overheal: How do I know? The mirror doesn't late mate.

Doesnt Lie?

Be Honest with yourself. What about you makes you unattractive? Is it something you can change? Is it a weight issue? Male pattern baldness? What?

Liam Byrne

Ugliness is not necessarily about looks.

Yes, they're a factor, but so is personality and mentality, and confidence is a factor too (the right amount - not too little, and definitely not too much).

Why do you think you're "ugly" OP ?

Liam Byrne

probel wrote: »

The mirror doesn't late lie mate.

If we were all attracted to what we saw in the mirror, we'd all be (a) gay and (b) completely unbearable assholes.....and (c) virgins as a result until cloning is legalised.

wylo

Op, work on your dress sense and your confidence. Its YOU whose making this unattractiveness an issue. If you worked on your confidence you wouldnt care about it, ERGO you would start pulling attractive women.

Women are more attracted to confidence than looks imo. Ive seen proof of it time and time again.
Its just a bit off putting when you see all great looking girls with great looking guys, but your forgetting its probably the confidence these guys have to offer which is the attractive part. Naturally it probably came easier to them growing up so they had a bit of a head start.

Ever see that ugly guy walking down the street with a cracker of a bird under his shoulders? Thats confidence for you. (could also be money admittedly )

robd55

Its probably your attitude that is holding you back. I would say confidence or lack of is your biggest enemy. Beauty is only skin deep I know cliche but some attractive girls you meet know it and are only up their own a**es. Nice for a one night stand maybe. I am not gods gift to women but we have all seen it out what in the name of God is that good looking girl doing with that Shrek look-a-like. No it isnt always because he is loaded. I have seen guys out not what you would call physically attractive pull the best looking women. It is all to do with confidence and charm. There is a guy at work he has been with loads of women yet he is a complete idiot but completely charming and thinks the sun shines out of his ass. Unfortunatley overnight charm and confidence dont come easily but but viewing the world as mr spock sees it i.e. logically dicounts the numerous exceptions to the rule out there. Dont be so negative and when it comes to women it is a numbers game for most guys and there are plenty of fish in the sea so chin up and get in the game.:)

LegacyUser

Sorry, I meant to say the mirror doesn't lie, not 'late'.

I'm afraid I have no other choice but to behave like Mr. Spock. You talk about exceptions to the rule, but thats just what they are. And there are heaps of other variables in the mix, such as money, gravitas, power etc. The reason you see women going around with Shreks, most of the time is because he has money, huge personal gravitas, an aura of power (Or alternatively is a legend in bed along with being extremely charming etc.)

I have poor looks (I've been overweight all of my life -c. 17 stone at the moment- a messed up face, weird vision in one of my eyes which makes me look slightly retarded, bad hearing and a wax problem, poor balance due to a deformity in my leg -a medical issue- and a load of other **** most people don't have to contend with when in the free market that is love)

I have zero self confidence, but thats only because I'm realistic.

Out of ten, I am a 1 in the looks department, a 1 in the money department, a 1 in the gravitas department and a 1 in the power department. I might be around a 5 in the general personality department, but even there I'm probably being too generous.

I don't think I'm being negative whatsoever. I'm just being realistic about my chances. A cold, rational and logical look at the people I might be able to have sex with results in a group of people I am unattracted to (And vice versa, they are unattracted to me) The only reason we would enter a relationship would be because we've been forced to settle (A strictly Darwinian cause, with little or nothing to do with sexual energy or romantic love) Similarily, I don't expect anything otherwise. I'm not angry or bitter about the way the world is, this is just the society I live in, and I'm as guilty as anyone else for not wanting to have sex with unattractive people. Its basic human nature, and there's no point in waiting around hoping to be one of lifes exceptions.

LegacyUser

probel wrote: »

I think beautiful people are in the enviable position of being able to take a moral position when it comes to having sex. Unattractive people are expected to settle for somebody they don't find attractive, basically in the interests of continuing the species. If I cannot get aroused by unnattractive women, and choose to remain a virgin until I'm forced to 'settle', does that make me a wierdo? Or logical?

I disagree with what you're saying here. No matter how unattractive I am, I would expect that a guy likes me for my smile/my laugh/my nose/my ass (??) I've gone out with what some would consider mingers but they've been "sexy" mingers if that makes any sense? They've got fierce eyes or big hands. I think you're being a little shallow OP.

Maybe being 21 you haven't taken your eyes off the hot girl long enough to notice the sweet girl with the lovely long hair checking you out.

PK2008

Alcohol has an amazing ability to turn unattractive into attractive- which will help you with both aspects of your issue

LegacyUser

notanymore wrote: »

I disagree with what you're saying here. No matter how unattractive I am, I would expect that a guy likes me for my smile/my laugh/my nose/my ass (??) I've gone out with what some would consider mingers but they've been "sexy" mingers if that makes any sense? They've got fierce eyes or big hands. I think you're being a little shallow OP.

Maybe being 21 you haven't taken your eyes off the hot girl long enough to notice the sweet girl with the lovely long hair checking you out.

What if you have an ugly smile, an ugly laugh, an ugly nose, an ugly ass??? What if you have no saving features? You talk about pretty mingers, but what about out and out ones? You're all talking about 'iffy' cases, none of you are talking about the case that I am. I severely doubt anyone is interested in checking me out, perhaps other than to laugh at me.

And to the other poster; I drink regularly, maybe too much. If you know in your heart and soul that no-body has or will be attracted to you, no amount of Jameson will fix that. I'm basically saying that when you see two ugly people together, they are only together because they have decided to settle. This is something that even moderately good looking people have a hard time understanding. Its not because they find each other attractive.

southofnowhere

So far we all seem to be supposing that sex and attractiveness are almost completely dependent on looks. They are not.

I think you are fixated on this precisely because you have not had sex yet. Luckily, for you, not everyone is as shallow, or narrow minded if you prefer.

I feel for you though, you have a serious lack of self esteem and that's not because you are 'realistic', it's because you're young and inexperienced, and by the sound of it, immature.

You have made some kind of relevant points about the society we live in, but you would be surprised what happens if you challenge the so-called norms sometimes. Maybe that's the advantage these 'Shreks' have. You'd be amazed what a friendly guy with a sense of humour can achieve compared to a cocky eejit with 'gravitas'.

Instead you are writing yourself off at 21, thereby sealing your own fate. To be honest, I think you should just try connecting with a few girls, make friends even, there's no point in your current attitude. And if you do believe it then what have you got to lose anyway?

IMHO your biggest problem is that if you don't like who you are then it's going to be very hard for anyone else to either. Sounds trite I know, but it's the truth and I'm guessing you know that already.

kjl

probel wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm a virgin but I thought it would be good to share my rationale for remaining one. Basically, my issue is that I'm a not particularly attractive 21 year old male. Therefore I find attractive women attractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. However, I find unattractive women unattractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. The problem is that I am not particularly attractive and will never be able to have sex with someone I'm attracted to (Because they would not be attracted to me) ERGO: Logically, I should be having sex with unattractive people simply because I'm unattractive. But this doesn't work because I cannot get aroused by people I'm not attracted to.

I think beautiful people are in the enviable position of being able to take a moral position when it comes to having sex. Unattractive people are expected to settle for somebody they don't find attractive, basically in the interests of continuing the species. If I cannot get aroused by unnattractive women, and choose to remain a virgin until I'm forced to 'settle', does that make me a wierdo? Or logical?

What you are describing is ethnic cleansing, I get it your not attracted to unattractive girls, I have the oposite problem, I'm only attracted to increadibly hot girls, but they dont exist. I've set my standards so high that I never meet girls who meet them, but I have to say some of the forien influence in the counrty has not gone to waiste. Why not try to woow some asian or eastern european girls, they are a little less picky when it comes to guys looks.

Perhaps we both need to be a little less shallow and consider emotional attraction to someone also. The best sex I ever had was with someone I loved.

kjl

probel wrote: »

Sorry, I meant to say the mirror doesn't lie, not 'late'.

I'm afraid I have no other choice but to behave like Mr. Spock. You talk about exceptions to the rule, but thats just what they are. And there are heaps of other variables in the mix, such as money, gravitas, power etc. The reason you see women going around with Shreks, most of the time is because he has money, huge personal gravitas, an aura of power (Or alternatively is a legend in bed along with being extremely charming etc.)

I have poor looks (I've been overweight all of my life -c. 17 stone at the moment- a messed up face, weird vision in one of my eyes which makes me look slightly retarded, bad hearing and a wax problem, poor balance due to a deformity in my leg -a medical issue- and a load of other **** most people don't have to contend with when in the free market that is love)

I have zero self confidence, but thats only because I'm realistic.

Out of ten, I am a 1 in the looks department, a 1 in the money department, a 1 in the gravitas department and a 1 in the power department. I might be around a 5 in the general personality department, but even there I'm probably being too generous.

I don't think I'm being negative whatsoever. I'm just being realistic about my chances. A cold, rational and logical look at the people I might be able to have sex with results in a group of people I am unattracted to (And vice versa, they are unattracted to me) The only reason we would enter a relationship would be because we've been forced to settle (A strictly Darwinian cause, with little or nothing to do with sexual energy or romantic love) Similarily, I don't expect anything otherwise. I'm not angry or bitter about the way the world is, this is just the society I live in, and I'm as guilty as anyone else for not wanting to have sex with unattractive people. Its basic human nature, and there's no point in waiting around hoping to be one of lifes exceptions.

In fairness though, I would give you a 10 in the humour department.

Nevyn

Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

LegacyUser

PK2008 wrote: »

Alcohol has an amazing ability to turn unattractive into attractive- which will help you with both aspects of your issue

as a friend of mne said i never went to bed with a dog but i often woke up with one

batmanbaby

I have no idea how you look and if you are right that you have no redeemable features but I can see that you have quite an ugly attitue.

Logically? Please sex and attraction have nothing to do with logic I have gone out with people that to others would not seem the best looking people in the world but to me they either had a great personality or we had an amazing connection. It never had anything to do with money status and that's a very immature and shallow view of people.

"Unattractive people are expected to settle for somebody they don't find attractive, basically in the interests of continuing the species." Having sex with people is very rarely to continue the species.


I don't think I'm being negative whatsoever. Really? you only seen to see the negative in yourself. Do you have nothing at all to give?


The only reason we would enter a relationship would be because we've been forced to settle (A strictly Darwinian cause, with little or nothing to do with sexual energy or romantic love)

Again with the being forced to settle! Could you not look past the girls looks and fall for her personality? Her mind? your connection? when you love some one they are always beautiful to you. You love them because of there faults and uniqueness.

You seem to be railing against society's shallow ways and yet are just as shallow.

I severely doubt anyone is interested in checking me out, perhaps other than to laugh at me.
This is a horrible thing to think about yourself it shows an extreme lack of self confidence which I can tell you is prob the most unattractive thing in the world.


I'm basically saying that when you see two ugly people together, they are only together because they have decided to settle. do you know this for sure have to asked them or are you projecting your own feeling on these couples? Maybe their very happy and very much in love.

Also Darwin's theory was of survival of the fittest and if I was to take everything you said well that wouldn't be less attractive people at all now would it? Do weak sickly animals reproduce with other weak sick animals? (I'm not trying to compare unattractive people with animals no insult meant by this it's just a point I'm trying to make.)


You seem to have over thought this and analysed this way too much. You have left no room for emotions have you ever heard that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? What is beautiful to some can be ugly to others and vice versa?

And there's nothing uglier than someone who is conventionally good looking but arrogant and conceited.

Try not to be so hard on yourself and on girls who you think are unattractive they might be if you would get to know them.

Dragan

probel wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm a virgin but I thought it would be good to share my rationale for remaining one. Basically, my issue is that I'm a not particularly attractive 21 year old male. Therefore I find attractive women attractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. However, I find unattractive women unattractive, like any attractive or unattractive male. The problem is that I am not particularly attractive and will never be able to have sex with someone I'm attracted to (Because they would not be attracted to me) ERGO: Logically, I should be having sex with unattractive people simply because I'm unattractive. But this doesn't work because I cannot get aroused by people I'm not attracted to.

I think beautiful people are in the enviable position of being able to take a moral position when it comes to having sex. Unattractive people are expected to settle for somebody they don't find attractive, basically in the interests of continuing the species. If I cannot get aroused by unnattractive women, and choose to remain a virgin until I'm forced to 'settle', does that make me a wierdo? Or logical?

Mate, i'm kicked as a boot and my girlfriend is super hot. Attractiveness cuts a lot deeper than looks.

The magic word is "confidence" and right now you are coming across as being pretty low in it.

To be honest, you need to get confident with yourself and run to your strengths. You most likely have talents, have things you are good at, are capable of thoughts and words that inspire reactions.

Your clearly hung up on the physical, in both yourself and your prospective partners. What you need to realise is that having a set of standards for yourself is on thing, i understand that. I'm attracted to who i am attracted to...I won't settle. But, it would be wrong of me to assume who may or may not be attracted to me.

That's something you just gotta find out as the opportunities for interaction come up.

At the end of the day though, if you want to sit there and talk about how you look like an ugly ****er , and other ugly ****ers that happen to have "hot" women have things you don't......that's just a big streak of self pity to be honest....and your spot on, nobody finds that attractive dude.

wylo

OP, hit the gym and try and aim to have not just an ok body , but a fantastic body. Try getting the ears sorted as best you can. Wax can be dealt with.
Then start working on your confidence, read up about it. You could even consider counseling. Once you have the confidence issue nailed you will be ok. Its your own attitude to life thats denying you of women. This is obviously having an effect on your looks in a way that you wouldnt even imagine. Seriously if you work on your body, your clothes and personality, the rest will take care of itself.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get going.

Monkey61

Also OP, good looks are very subjective and people are into different things.

I have a friend who is an average looking guy and thinks he is the shallowest person ever when it comes to girls. Yet when I see the girls he points out to me as being "the hottest girl in the world" who he thinks he could never have a chance with - they look to me like very average looking girls and in most cases, less good looking than him. Some of them look a bit hideous to me to be honest. But he genuinely sees them as film star gorgeous.

I always thought I was very shallow too, but this year I have fancied two girls that my friends would objectively say are awful looking. Yet I think they are absolutely the hottest things in the world. One of them, even I would objectively say is not the best looking girl at all - but my god do I fancy her to a ridiculous extent. She's smart, very confident and incredibly funny. She is always the centre of any group she is in - and that is a very attractive feature. The other girl would be the same, apparently not good looking but I think she looks amazing, hell she even has a very noticeable physical disability - but she is super confident, in a band, very interesting and always the centre of attention at a party.

If you work on your personality, your confidence and just make yourself as interesting as possible - people will want to be around you. Be the guy that always has a smile on his face, or is laughing with his friends. Do fun things, learn to play an instrument, read loads, play sports and like has been said before, hit the gym and dress as well as you can. That is what it will all come down to in the end - you need to be interesting, fun, confident and there is nothing more attractive than being the kind of person that everyone wants to be around.

kittenkiller

Seriously, not everyone is as judgmental about looks as you are.

Honestly you sound like someone who would be very tedious to know in real life.
You need to brighten up and stop thinking about all the unattractive people around you!

People are more likely to like nice people and people who like themselves.
You never know what kind of relationship you might develop with someone and attraction isn't solely based on looks.
Have you tried befriending any of these minging girls that you're surrounded by?

LegacyUser

God this thread depresses me. I am a male who is very low in confidence also. I have quite a pretty face but am short (5 foot 6) and I have a very boring voice.
I don't know how to talk to girls either but I think people here are simplifying things a little too much. i.e Have confidence=every single woman on earth wants to bed you.
I believe good looks are a help, certainly starting off anyway. Come on, women are very bit as shallow as men when it comes down to it. They are more likely to want to be chatted up by the tall dark and handsome stranger in the night-club than the short overweight guy with the glasses (apologies and no offence to anyone reading this who is short, overweight and wears glasses).
Also, they have to have something in common with the guy. All the confidence in the world won't win you a girl's heart unless she "takes to you" for some reason. There has to be some chemistry, some shared mindset, if you know what I mean.
Girls go out with one guy and not another for the same reason they are friendly with this girl and not friendly with another. Because, duh, they get on better with her than the other one!.
I mean a hot girl might be chatted up by a zero-looks, confident male but she may not be attracted to him if they have nothing to talk about after two weeks.
Just a point I wanted to make that's all.
Btw for those who believe looks make no difference whatsoever, put together a list of all the women Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise and Johnny Depp have been with and come back to me.

Calibos

Give it time mate. At 21 you are still basically a kid which sounds very condescending but believe me when you are 30 and look back at yourself at 21, you too will realise that you were still basically a kid at that age. Your attitude to yourself and to the world around you can change a lot in that time.

At your age I was more self critical of myself and lacking in confidence. As I matured I realised I wasn't as bad as I thought and combined with a growing confidence and F@ck it attitude my perceived negatives didn't seem to matter as much.

I felt the same about attraction and had model standards. As I matured I found that looks weren't everything and that it didn't matter if the girl was a looker, if she wasn't a nice person or funny or intellectually stimulating, it didn't matter how good looking she was. I also started to find girls attractive that might be classed as uglo attractive. Girls that only a few years previoiusly I wouldn't have found attractive at all. But there was just something about them. I don't just mean they were ugo's and it was 100% their personality that made them attractive. I am not going to trot out that cliche, that its whats inside that counts. There is still a looks threshold I cannot cross no matter how great a persons personality is. Its not that your standards will drop its that as you mature your standards change. However, I found that I could overlook a certain threshold of unnattractive qualiteis if other qualities were in place. eg, She might have a bit of a ducky walk, big ears be, a bit overweight, but the personality, smooth milky skin and twinkling eyes counterbalanced those. This was not a forced change on my standards where I lowered them. This was a natural change that just happened.

This applies to both your attitudes to other people and their attitudes to you. You'll naturally become attracted to people you wouldn't think possible now, overlooking things about their appearance that you couldn't overlook now and conversely those of the opposite sex will go through the same attitude changes where they can overlook things about you. But like I said there still has to be a balance where the good outweighs the bad. If you stay being negative and depressed and lacking in confidence, it doesn't matter whether women start to overlook some of your perceived physical negatives because if you haven't got the personality to counterbalance those negatives the point is still moot if ya get me.

So you need to think of the long game. Are things going to change for you tomorrow? No. It might be a few years till things start to really turn around but you can start preparing for that day now. You need to prepare for that day now. Don't let the fact that nothing will change for a few years depress you and prevent you doing anything about it. You need to start now.

Heres an example of both elements of what I am trying to say.

There is a guy that comes into my place of work. About 3 years ago he was massively obese and had a fat girlfriend. She was fat but he genuinely had the shape and proportions of Fat Bastard from the Austin Powers films. Both were the stereotypical lovely, jolly, happy, nice....fat person.

Didn't see him for about a year and the next time he came in, I only recognised him when he spoke. He had dieted and shifted the weight by walking the 8 miles to and from his girlfriends house every other day. Once he dropped weight to a certain level he started to hit the gym to turn the weight that was left into muscle. The guy is built like a brick sh!thouse (or whatever the phrase is) now. The great thing is, is that he didn't change his personality like a lot of fat people do when they loose the weight. So many become cocky. He is still the genuinely lovely guy he always was. Really an inspirational fellow. Your attitudes to your own body will change like I said, but you can also change your own body somewhat too. But develope the confident nice personality to go along with it. Just accept it will take time and keep that confidence up for as long as it takes.

In the same time period, the guys girlfriend lost a bit of her weight but is still quite overweight. However, also in that time period, my attitudes to attractiveness matured and as I got to know her over these last 3 years, I found myself increasingly attracted to her. To re-iterate, there are still girls who I love to bits as people but still am not attracted to them, but there is enough about her physically combined with personality to tip her over the threshold into attractive territory. Like the aforementioned, smooth milky skin, twinkly eyes and a personality I really like. This wasn't forced by me, it just happened. If she wasn't still going out with the brick sh!thouse guy, I'd probably be asking her out.

Your own attitudes about yourself will naturally change.
Other peoples attitudes to you will naturally change.
You can change certain physical attributes of yourself.

Combined together, you might not necessarily be in a happy relationship tomorrow but your life could be unrecognisable by your mid twenties. But like everything you have to put some work in yourself and recognise that it might take a few years and is not going to happen all by itself tomorrow.

enry

<snip>
I agree with you, you should not have to sleep with unattractive women and don’t feel bad for them I know loads of guys who would sleep with anyone

Zaph

enry, please read the part of the charter dealing with unhelpful and off-topic posts before posting in PI again

Miss Fluff

probel wrote: »

I have poor looks (I've been overweight all of my life -c. 17 stone at the moment- a messed up face, weird vision in one of my eyes which makes me look slightly retarded, bad hearing and a wax problem, poor balance due to a deformity in my leg -a medical issue- and a load of other **** most people don't have to contend with when in the free market that is love)

I have zero self confidence, but thats only because I'm realistic.

No, you are being fatalistic rather than realistic. For me personally, brains are a massive turn on and you write with obvious intelligence and eloquence.

Rather than bemoaning the fact you are fat, have bad skin, a wax problem.....each one of these things can be worked on.

I'd honestly advise you go and join the gym my friend. It will do wonders for your body, your energy levels and your self confidence. I can actually put money on it right here and right now that it will contribute drastically to changing your life if you commit to doing it.

Tbh, ask most women, and they will agree with me that a funny, kind and intelligent man is far more attractive than a vacuous prettyboy.

Give yourself a break OP and Happy New Year! x

cheekyass

Miss Fluff wrote: »

No, you are being fatalistic rather than realistic. For me personally, brains are a massive turn on and you write with obvious intelligence and eloquence.

Rather than bemoaning the fact you are fat, have bad skin, a wax problem.....each one of these things can be worked on.

I'd honestly advise you go and join the gym my friend. It will do wonders for your body, your energy levels and your self confidence. I can actually put money on it right here and right now that it will contribute drastically to changing your life if you commit to doing it.

Tbh, ask most women, and they will agree with me that a funny, kind and intelligent man is far more attractive than a vacuous prettyboy.

Give yourself a break OP and Happy New Year! x

I second that! Well said Miss Fluff......I think joining a gym would do wonders for your self esteem, also keeping yourself busy. Theres no point in being down in the dumps about it. Best of luck and have a happy new year op!

irish_bob

Miss Fluff wrote: »

No, you are being fatalistic rather than realistic. For me personally, brains are a massive turn on and you write with obvious intelligence and eloquence.

Rather than bemoaning the fact you are fat, have bad skin, a wax problem.....each one of these things can be worked on.

I'd honestly advise you go and join the gym my friend. It will do wonders for your body, your energy levels and your self confidence. I can actually put money on it right here and right now that it will contribute drastically to changing your life if you commit to doing it.

Tbh, ask most women, and they will agree with me that a funny, kind and intelligent man is far more attractive than a vacuous prettyboy.

Give yourself a break OP and Happy New Year! x

how many beautifull models or actresses do you know who are married or with ( shall we say ) plain looking guys who just happend to have beautifull minds , women go for looks as much as men and anyone who says otherwise is fibbing

Darthhoob

steve buscemi...never seems short of women who fancy him...i dont think that is based on purely hsi looks do you. (and yes i am one of those women lol)

you are only ever as ugly as you allow yourself to be....coming from someone who used to (and tbh still does) think they are really ugly..but has been proved wrong again and again by OTHER people.

just cos you feel you are unattractive, doesn't mean others will think the same. you are not to be attracted to yourself i dont think

Misty Chaos

To be quite honest, OP, with that sort of attitude, your dooming yourself to failure before you even try. Now THAT, above anything else, is not going to help your self - confidence at all!

That is what you need to work on above all right now, your self - confidence as it sounds like you don't have much of it. There are plenty of ways to help build that, such as counselling, for example.

Also, its OK to have standards in the looks department. Sure, personality makes up an important part as well but like someone else mentioned, once a the line in the looks department is crossed, there can't be any attraction, regardless of how good the personality is. ( Take my advice, if one of your friends is keen to set you up with someone, ALWAYS ask for photos beforehand. I had to learn that the hard way. )

Don't beat yourself up over it, I know it sucks that you haven't found anyone yet ( me neither! ) but who knows when things could suddenly change. Just saying.

Good Luck regardless in whatever you decide to do.

colly10

@ OP - Your looking at things too simply, attraction is not always obvious, just because you can't see how someone attractive could be attracted to you doesn't mean that thats the case.
My ex could have had any fella she wanted and she knew it, was stunning and also had a great personality, I could look at myself in the mirror and ask myself what I had that some other lad doesn't, I don't know but attraction is something not easy to explain.
I know another lad and every girl I know says he's not attractive, he's desperate, can be a headwrecker, has no money, drinks too much and has zero confidence, that lad is going out with a great looking girl at the moment and I heard she's a really nice girl as well. Just because me or a few of the girls he hangs around with can't see what attracts her doesn't mean that she doesn't find him attractive.
Most people have different ideas on what they find attractive and they can't help what they find attractive.
Work on your confidence, also if you think your fat then diet and excersise, maybe lift weights, if you think your skins bad get tablets for it

A mate said to me a few years ago and I didn't forget - "If you can't love yourself you can't expect others to love ye"
Its hard to let your personality shine through when ye've got no confidence in yourself

booksale

OP, you have a sense of humor. I don't feel you are self pity by your writing. And had a bit of fun to read it. THANKS.

This is one of your goods, and humourous people are attractive. Work on it.

If you are also not too short, that's better.

If you are good at sports, or music or movies..., something you know a lot, that's better.

Question is: do you want to put effort?

A quiet one

colly10 wrote: »

@ OP - Your looking at things too simply, attraction is not always obvious, ...

Great post there colly.
I once knew a lad who was an astonishing girl-magnet. It was simply a howl to see what happened and totally inexplicable because he had no "gravitas", no money, no even half decent dress sense, a slightly unsettling ugliness to his personality and not only was he quite short, but he had wispy blond hair combed in a way that made it look just false, a crabby looking face and for a barely 20 year old, he had a moustache that would look out of date on a 4O year old.
And yet you couldn't go anywhere without girls, complete stranger to any of us, physically grabbing for him. And it wasn't his "confidence" because he could be as confused about it as we were. But he was a bit cold as far as taking advantage of people was concerned.
In contrast, some years before I met him I had one evening headed off for my first big night out. (I had had a fairly restrictive upbringing in the sense that there wasn't much social experience to it, other then meeting up once a year for the annual clan get together.)
Before leaving I was quite pleased with myself. I had always thought of myself as well blessed in the looks department and with some nice, decent, fresh clothes, I just really looked the business before setting off.
And yet, I had no expectation or agenda to get off with anyone. Nor did I want too. That would be ridiculous because it would be like thinking I could run before I had figured out how to walk.
On arrival at the venue I was even more upbeat when I saw the scene. Virtually every bloke looked like he had just stepped of the tractor and were, like, they were afraid of the women or something. Standing as far a way as they could, trying to get drunk to pick up some courage, they just blocked off the entire bar area holding sloppy pints whilst glaring and gawping at the girls and not a smile between the lot of them. No one was dancing. Not even girls together.
I had nothing in common with those knuckle draggers and lord knows I knew enough like that so didn't need to make friends with even more. The behaviour of the girls on the other hand suggested they were more my sort of people. So, I just started, or should I say, just tried to get some casual conversation going with what ever girls were nearest. I didn't pick according to looks, except for choosing those who looked like I could make a connection with. Their reaction was not pretty. They reacted as if I had somehow dealt them a serious insult. They were openly offended by the very idea of me coming any way near them.
No matter how good looking, well behaved, interesting and self confident I was, what I did not know was that to them I looked about 12, which should have explained why the only girls interested in me were annoying little 10 to 12 years olds. And there I was wondering who the hell had left them in


The thing is, as you point out, the OP is being simplistic. There can be a kernel of truth to what he says, but contrary to his assertions, it is not realistic.
A person can "fall" for someone from no more than a glance and it might not even be the other person's "good side". It'll have more to do with something about their smile, the way they gaze at something, their giggle, their little movements, how they hold their head, perhaps nothing more than an age group, ... the list is not only endless, but unique to each individual and the OP s focus of logic is far too limited.

Massive Muscles

Your analysis is correct in every way OP except for the bit about unattractive women not sleeping with you. Whilst it might not be likely you can always increase your chances by being as rich and successful as possible.

Bonito

PK2008 wrote: »

Alcohol has an amazing ability to turn unattractive into attractive- which will help you with both aspects of your issue

Not very helpful advice, the Op shouldn't have to resort to alcohol. Besides, alcohol sometimes creates more problems than it solves, and will not solve the Op's problem.

Op try increasing your confidence, don't be afraid to ask a girl out etc, you'd be surprised at how caring a lot of people can be! Also law of averages: Each no brings you closer to a yes. Just don't let the knock backs affect you and be determined and get what you want rather than settle, this will shine through and girls you talk to will pick up on this confidence and drive.Join a club or something where you can meet people of same interests etc.

All the best.

A quiet one

Bonito wrote: »

Op try increasing your confidence, don't be afraid to ask a girl out etc, you'd be surprised at how charitable a lot of people can be!

There, I've just changed that to point out that is how your original actually translates as

Whereas what you probably meant was:
Op try increasing your confidence, don't be afraid to ask a girl out etc, you'd be surprised at how open minded a lot of people can be!

metamorphosis

I have not read all the replies but from you OP it seems that you might have low self esteem issues. I used to feel like that. All i can say is put yourself out there more (i know it's easier said than done!) : you will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about once ya get that experience you want. The last thing you should do is go settling for something you do not want.

scanlas

Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because men are primarily attracted to a woman's looks that women are primarily attracted to men's looks. A man's personality attracts women mostly. Look at the likes of Simon Cowell, Gordon Ramsay or Robbie Williams. They have a personality that attracts women.

LegacyUser

Would you people listen to yourselves??

You say all of this crap expecting me to buy it. That its just a matter of self confidence. Or that its just about loosing a little weight. Or making a little money. Or being a 'nice guy'. What crap! I can tell you from experience that that is a load of crap! Never hear of 'nice guy always finishes last'? Honestly, you'd swear none of you have experienced living in this cruel world as an ugly person.

The reality is that there is more to attraction than mere looks, but 99% of the time thats how people start off. THe rest falls together later. All relationships are built off an initial attraction which developed into love. I'm sorry for being realistic (It is the fate of the cynic to be called 'fatalistic' when he sees the truth for what it is) but women and men are equally shallow; I know, thats why I don't resort to having sex with people I don't find attractive. I know I'm a hypocrite.

The only reason I am posting this is to let society know why people like me aren't bothered in sex. Often times friends and family might murmer 'are they gay?' or something, but it couldn't be further from the truth. We're so disgusting that nobody wants to have sex with us other than people of the same looks; so we keep that horrible scene away from society at large until we get so old we're forced to settle with each other. THis is the reality and these couples exist in every city, town and village in the country if you look hard enough.

I remember being a young man at clubs with my friends and suffering random girls laughing among themselves at the thought of 'going with me'. I remember girls at school constantly making me the butt of their jokes - pretending to set me up with girls and then taking the piss if I respond even in someway positive. My entire life has been one of sexual humiliation, this is the way the world works. If you think otherwise then you're just willfully deluded. I've had enough humiliation to last a lifetime, I just don't want to put myself out there anymore.

This is the real world. You'll never understand it unless you have low self esteem.

LegacyUser

scanlas wrote: »

Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because men are primarily attracted to a woman's looks that women are primarily attracted to men's looks. A man's personality attracts women mostly. Look at the likes of Simon Cowell, Gordon Ramsay or Robbie Williams. They have a personality that attracts women.

and money

LegacyUser

I don't have time right now to give a proper reply to this thread, but I just wanted to say OP not every woman is as shallow as you seem to think!!
I am in my early twenties, and there is NOTHING more unattractive to me than a gorgeous guy who is arrogant and big-headed. I've been told my taste in men in 'quirky' to say the least. I'll take my last boyfriend as an example. He was older than me, a little odd looking tbh, very skinny and tall. But I thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread - the thing that grabbed my attention was his lovely personality and he was really kind and creative. You need to realise that intelligence and humour and just the simple act of being able to have an interesting conversation with someone can be so attractive!
Regarding advice, why not put in more effort in clothes, hair etc. That may seem shallow but it's just a starting point. Be well-dressed and well-groomed, it's half the impression you'll give out.
If your strength is more your intelligence and/or personality, have you tried internet dating? Just a thought.

Op,

Get counselling

ASAP!

If you didn't want help, you shouldn't have posted. If you think you've no chance with women, then yes, you have no chance. But only because you're not open to the chance of being wrong. If you don't play lotto, you can't win.

scanlas

unregistered wrote: »

and money

It's not the money that makes Simon Cowell, Gordon Ramsay and Robbie Williams so widespreadly attractive.

Ryan Tubridy has lots of money as do many in the media but you don't hear many women saying how sexy he is.

I know loads of ugly men with similar personalities to the above three who get lots of attention from women and I'm sure most people do with a big enough social cirlce.

Sanjuro

OP, if you're so set in your ways, what exactly is it you want from the people who respond to you?

Look, I'm not mad on my own looks. But I've had a few pretty decent relationships. With girls who told me they weren't initially attracted to me. Which is fine. Well, it's not fine, it does cut a little, but hey, it's nice to know that my personality is worth something!

Honestly, if you keep up the attitude you have now, you will never find somebody. Attitude is everything. I once went out with a stunner. She could definately have been considered out of my league. But she had a terrible personality. She was selfish, had a bad attitude to other people, constantly bitched about my friends and what not. So I broke it off with her. Didn't matter if she was gorgeous. I didn't want to be with someone like that.

And nobody is going to want to be with you if your attitude stinks. Change that, and things will change for you. Despite how adamant you are that this isn't the case.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

When you are out shopping, or at the cinema or in a pub or club, take a look around at all the couples, you notice that there are a lot of hot women with men that I would consider quite ugly. Build some confidence in yourself, that's more attractive than most physical features.

A quiet one

probel wrote: »

The reality is that there is more to attraction than mere looks, but 99% of the time thats how people start off.

A pedantic response perhaps, but what about blind people? Do they represent just 1%.

If your stats on that are so wrong, in all likelihood so are your other measurements to justify what is coming across as self-loathing. You are here, publicly beating yourself up. Are you in mourning for the lost years when you were been mocked by those other children? They hurt you. They abused you. But they've grown up now and their priorities have changed, just as their allegiances have;
BUT. You seem to be carrying on where they left off.

Get over yourself, or Get counselling.