Amsterdam-Detroit Plane Attack - Conspiracy?

steo87

I am by no means a conspiracy nut, but something just strikes me about this incident.

First of all, when there were talks of the full body scanners being installed in Amsterdam Schiphol airport there was criticism from many organisations and individuals in general, due to privacy concerns etc.

So I'm thinking this is what could have happened:

In order to force through the introduction of the full body scanners, the authorities 'staged'/allowed the incident to happen. This prevents anyone complaining anymore about the scanners' introduction, because the governments have a reason to introduce them. It can be argued also that because the bomb didn't actually go off, and thus the plane wasn't blown out of the sky, they had a part in it.

What are your thoughts?

I know it's obviously a far fetched idea, but sure just putting it out there.



[FBI Interception] ignore this message as the person writing it is a terrorist and wants to take away your freedom....YOUR FREEDOM [/FBI Interception]

steo87

steo87 wrote: »

I am by no means a conspiracy nut, but something just strikes me about this incident.

First of all, when there were talks of the full body scanners being installed in Amsterdam Schiphol airport there was criticism from many organisations and individuals in general, due to privacy concerns etc.

So I'm thinking this is what could have happened:

In order to force through the introduction of the full body scanners, the authorities 'staged'/allowed the incident to happen. This prevents anyone complaining anymore about the scanners' introduction, because the governments have a reason to introduce them. It can be argued also that because the bomb didn't actually go off, and thus the plane wasn't blown out of the sky, they had a part in it.

What are your thoughts?

I know it's obviously a far fetched idea, but sure just putting it out there.



[FBI Interception] ignore this message as the person writing it is a terrorist and wants to take away your freedom....YOUR FREEDOM [/FBI Interception]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the bomb to actually go off thus giving more of an impact and therefore more of a reason to install these scanners?

And I don't think any of the complaining was slowing down the introduction of the full body scanners anyway. Why do they need more public support?

I think this is a good example of how CTs work.
You start with the conclusion: the government are up to something.
You then find a motive: introduction of the scanners.

All it needs now is "evidence" to fit the preconceived conclusion.

steo87

King Mob wrote: »

Wouldn't it make more sense for the bomb to actually go off thus giving more of an impact and therefore more of a reason to install these scanners?

Why kill innonent citizens/people when the bomb not going off will suffice?

Yitzhak Rabin

I will agree with you that the facts of this case are, at least for the moment, very obscure, and don't seem to fit within your normal terrorist scenario.

That said, I have to agree with King Mob, that you can't just then decide your conclusion and work backwards.

steo87

steo87 wrote: »

Why kill innonent citizens/people when the bomb not going off will suffice?

Bigger impact.

No one seems nearly as fussed about the failed attack as they do about increased delays at airports.

This would seem to be counter productive to the imagined motive wouldn't it?
Making people more pissed off with security?

Nick_oliveri

I find this funny because this man should have been stopped going into America anyways. Due to the failings of the heavily funded security he made his way through.
I also find it funny that "Al Queda" was mentioned immediately. And now airports will get worse and worse until we have to go through something that resembles an MRI machine or full X ray body scanner because some idiot terrorist / "Al Queda" swallowed plastic explosive or had it surgically implanted. Security is like encryption, no encryption is unbreakable, if you have the will. And "they" do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8434805.stm

She said the airport would be able to use body scanners on all flights to the US from the airport in three weeks. Nigerian authorities also said they would start using the machines next year.

Ms Ter Horst said that though the US had previously not wanted the scanners to be used because of privacy concerns, Washington had now agreed that "all possible measures will be used on flights to the US".

US President Barack Obama has acknowledged unacceptable security failures.

Lol, what?

Mr Obama said he wanted to know why a warning weeks ago from Mr Abdulmutallab's father did not lead to the accused being placed on a no-fly list.

http://cnn.mv/2008/US/07/17/watchlist.chertoff/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#False_positives_and_other_controversial_cases
A ****ing joke, an illusion.

"We need to learn from this episode and act quickly to fix flaws in the system," Mr Obama said.

Mr Abdulmutallab has reportedly told investigators that he trained in Yemen with al-Qaeda.

Run_to_da_hills

I have my serious doubts about this whole incident jut like I have with 9/11.

I am convinced that this is a "Hollywood job" staged in front of the global media and didn't happen at all. It was set up as an excuse for the Global powers to inflict more draconian control. The Israel Manufactured porno X ray scanner were condemned by countries and I believe the EU Parliament yet they are rolling them out now despite privacy issue.

I can also see this as another 9/11 used to speed up the phasing out of onventional passports. YOu can be damn sure that a deadline will be put foreward soon bnnin their use.

The attached photo is supposedly the Kacks worn by the would-be Northwest bomber all over the news.



Supposedly, there was smoke and fire. (Up to the ceiling of the cabin according to one eyewitness - ed). The bomber was burned enough to have to go to the hospital. The explosive he supposedly mixed in his drawers and then set ablaze would bring down that huge airliner.

Time to ramp up more nonsense from TSA: No potty trips and get ready to stand naked in front of their body scanners or you don't fly. Will you put your 13 year old daughter or 10 year old son in front of one of those scanners for some stranger to look at? How do you think that will affect your children even if you don't mind being stripped naked?

So, how come his undies are so clean looking? There is no skid marks on these jocks, you could imagine that the guy would have s*it himself when arrested.

One would also think there would be burning, tearing, ripping and black soot. That photo shows a neatly cut up pair of under wear that almost look washed and fairly clean. I don't know what the "sewn in" part is supposed to really look like or what men's underwear in third world countries look like either. To me, it looks like a reinforced crotch area in some kind of boxer shorts.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

.

All it needs now is "evidence" to fit the preconceived conclusion.

Case in point.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

So, how come his undies are so clean looking? There is no skid marks on these jocks, you could imagine that the guy would have s*it himself when arrested.

One would also think there would be burning, tearing, ripping and black soot. That photo shows a neatly cut up pair of under wear that almost look washed and fairly clean. I don't know what the "sewn in" part is supposed to really look like or what men's underwear in third world countries look like either. To me, it looks like a reinforced crotch area in some kind of boxer shorts.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Time to ramp up more nonsense from TSA: No potty trips and get ready to stand naked in front of their body scanners or you don't fly. Will you put your 13 year old daughter or 10 year old son in front of one of those scanners for some stranger to look at? How do you think that will affect your children even if you don't mind being stripped naked?

So we shouldn't fear the terrorists but we should fear the paedophiles?

Who's scaremongering do we listen to?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Case in point.






So we shouldn't fear the terrorists but we should fear the paedophiles?

Who's scaremongering do we listen to?

If they did their homework right from the beginning it wouldn't have happened. Your man was supposed to have been on the UK wanted list :rolleyes:

I thought they had a foolproof system that was capable of knowing what you had for breakfast.

No doub't in a few years time "terrorists" will find away around this by developing a non toxic stealth explosive that they can eat and gradually let build up in their bodies. :eek:

Then this will be the correct time to enforce the biometric implant. :eek:

thecheese

The name "Ms Ter Horst" brings a completely different conspiracy to mind..

:eek:

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If they did their homework right from the beginning it wouldn't have happened. Your man was supposed to have been on the UK wanted list :rolleyes:

I thought they had a foolproof system that was capable of knowing what you had for breakfast.

No doub't in a few years time "terrorists" will find away around this by developing a non toxic stealth explosive that they can eat and gradually let build up in their bodies. :eek:

Then this will be the correct time to enforce the biometric implant. :eek:

RtdH, which came first? The conclusion or the "evidence"?

Cause I don't see how "his underpants were clean" can lead to "it's a hoax".
Unless of course you've already come to that conclusion before hand.

I also like how to get to your nightmare scenario you have to rely on a completely fictional type of explosive.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

I also like how to get to your nightmare scenario you have to rely on a completely fictional type of explosive.

Semtex at one time would have been considered fictional, it is now old hat.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Semtex at one time would have been considered fictional it is now old hat.

So then can you show this explosive that you can eat and turn yourself into a bomb?

And I can name a hundred other things that at one time were fictional, and still are.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

So then can you show this explosive that you can eat and turn yourself into a bomb?

Capsuals have been used for smuggling drugs for years, no reason why the same principal could be used for smuggling explosives. A Kilo would be plenty of explosives to swallow.

I am also sure scientists could easily develop a detonator designed to disolve a capsual and ignite the explosives from the gastric acids in the stomach. :eek:

Yitzhak Rabin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am also sure scientists could easily develop a

...smart card that would allow for data to become more streamlined, make administrative processes easier, reduce crime and terrorism, fit in your wallet, have sufficient encryption to protect the user, and generally enhance our lives like most technological advances....

...but that would be just plain evil.:D

Run_to_da_hills

yekahs wrote: »

...smart card that would allow for data to become more streamlined, make administrative processes easier, reduce crime and terrorism, fit in your wallet, have sufficient encryption to protect the user, and generally enhance our lives like most technological advances....

...but that would be just plain evil.:D

Smart cards can get lost, stolen, cloned, and also the elderly would have difficulty using them.

King Mob wrote: »

And I can name a hundred other things that at one time were fictional, and still are.

BTW heres a press article on "stomach bombs".

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Capsuals have been used for smuggling drugs for years, no reason why the same principal could be used for smuggling explosives. A Kilo would be plenty of explosives to swallow.

I am also sure scientists could easily develop a detonator designed to disolve a capsual and ignite the explosives from the gastric acids in the stomach. :eek:

So then, no none exist.
Thus it's fictional and hypothetical.

And as always your theory depends on the fictional and non existent.

But it seem you've again ignored the important part of the posts.
So I assume that your conclusion came before you had evidence, and it's apparent the "evidence" you do have is laughably flimsy.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

BTW heres a press article on "stomach bombs".

Do you actually even read these articles or just the headlines?

Since it's obvious you just googled stomach and bomb: The article is dscribing a bomb implanted in someone's body, not an explosive you eat and it gradually turns you into a bomb.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

So then, no none exist.
Thus it's fictional and hypothetical.

And as always your theory depends on the fictional and non existent.

But it seem you've again ignored the important part of the posts.
So I assume that your conclusion came before you had evidence, and it's apparent the "evidence" you do have is laughably flimsy.

Again.

New al-Qaeda 'body bombs' that can beat airport security are alarming terror experts

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Again.

New al-Qaeda 'body bombs' that can beat airport security are alarming terror experts

Anti-terrorism experts held an emergency meeting last month after an al-Qaeda militant passed through several airline security checks with a bomb hidden in his intestine.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

No doub't in a few years time "terrorists" will find away around this by developing a non toxic stealth explosive that they can eat and gradually let build up in their bodies. :eek:

Not the same thing you are claiming at all.
But feel free to move the goalposts if it helps you ignore the important point I made earlier.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Not the same thing you are claiming at all.
But feel free to move the goalposts if it helps you ignore the important point I made earlier.

Whats the difference between a duck?

Two of its legs are both the same.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Whats the difference between a duck?

Two of its legs are both the same.

The fact that you're claiming one thing is the same as the other.
It's not.
You're moving the goalposts, and ignoring my more important points.

So going to actually address that point or are you going to continue to argue about the ridiculous claim you made about edible explosives?

Run_to_da_hills

Tarpley:"Detroit jet terrorist attack was staged" -

Unusual to see something like this on US news media.

namloc1980

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tarpley:"Detroit jet terrorist attack was staged" -

Unusual to see something like this on US news media.

That's because it's not US media....it's Russia Today.

Torakx

i tend to think these new scanners wont prevent the cia planting more bombs but its still going to happen regardless with both "terrorists" and scanners of all kinds

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

The fact that you're claiming one thing is the same as the other.
It's not.
You're moving the goalposts, and ignoring my more important points.

So going to actually address that point or are you going to continue to argue about the ridiculous claim you made about edible explosives?

Yes, my first claim was about explosive devices that could be ingested and exploded by a timed chemical reaction inside the stomach.

The press article claims that mobile phones could detonate similar ingested devices. Big deal and quit trolling. Both are a frightening "possibility" and more than likely the first would be used as an excuse to ban mobile phones and all other electronic devices outright from inside the cabin.

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's because it's not US media....it's Russia Today.

My mistake.

It also goes to show how much b****** and censorship that goes on in the US media and that how gullible these people are.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes, my first claim was about explosive devices that could be ingested and exploded by a timed chemical reaction inside the stomach.

No it wasn't.
You realise we can see exactly what you wrote.
That wasn't it.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The press article claims that mobile phones could detonate similar ingested explosive devices. Big deal and quit trolling. Both are a "possibility" and more than likely the first would be used as an excuse to ban mobile phones and other electronic devices outright from inside the cabin.

And that's not what you where claiming at the start either.
You where claiming that the edible explosive would lead to smart chips.
Now you're saying they'll ban all electronic devices?
Does that include these chips?
I bet they can be used to set off these fictional bombs.

And you're one for accusing me of trolling considering you're the one ignoring my more important point.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

My mistake.

It also goes to show how much b****** and censorship that goes on in the US media and that how gullible these people are.

Or it could be Russia Today might be corrupt and controlled by a corrupt government?

So any actual evidence this attack was staged or are you going to stop at "his pants where clean"?

Peist2007

Guys this is a very interesting thread that seems, as usual on this site, to have been hijacked by bickering over side issues.

I generally wondered when i first saw this story why did the Nigerian would-be bomber only decide to detonate on the plane's descent into the Detroit airport. A friend sitting beside me sagely pointed out that Al Qui'ada would want the bomb to detonate "on American soil" for more effect. However that point of view doesnt sit well with me as i feel the greatest effect would be to have the plane detonate over the Atlantic and i think so for the following reasons:

1. Not being able to recover survivors would create more outrage.

2. Having a plane go missing on radar at xmas followed by an announcement declaring responsibility from a terrorist organisation would be far more dramatic than a bomb going off on a plane sitting on a runway (my opinion anyways)

3. There would be no trace of who carried the bombing out on board meaning we would not know that it was the Nigerian man leaving the now-reported training camps in Nigeria to be kept out of the mainstream media.

That is what leads me to think that there is more to this than meets the eye. The fact that it is now purported that this Nigerian kid was put on the plane by a well-dressed Indian gentleman who managed to get him on the plane without the kid having a passport makes it all the stranger.
This Nigerian is reportedly a student at London University. Should he not have a passport to be in London attending university? If he was going to blow up the plane and kill himself and others why wouldnt he use his real passport? What difference would it make? It would guarantee himself getting on wouldnt it? Rather than hoping Schipol security would let him through without a transport?

Its a puzzler. Taking the above into account i believe that this probably was a planned event for the world to see that could enable a number of proposed actions to be put in motion such as the aforementioned scanners in Schipol or the relatively understated US attacks in Yemen immediately after this story broke.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I find much of the stuff i see on this site and others to be complete paranoid rubbish. But i maintain an open mind as i believe that if the World's Superpowers werent using these techniques to dupe us into following their policies then i would feel they would be missing a trick. The way the world is set up we are there to be manipulated. When your local Val Falvey TD canvasses you at election time he is manipulating you only on a less grander scale. I manipulate people at my job every day to get things done. It sadly is the way the world works. If people are afraid they will do what they are told (not that i am into scaring people!).
I would conclude that the latest "terror incident" was just a means of pushing us in a certain way and maintaining control.

dvpower

Peist2007 wrote: »

1. Not being able to recover survivors would create more outrage.

Being able to recover pieces of survivors and wreckage, in view of TV cameras would create much more outrage.

Peist2007 wrote: »

2. Having a plane go missing on radar at xmas followed by an announcement declaring responsibility from a terrorist organisation would be far more dramatic than a bomb going off on a plane sitting on a runway (my opinion anyways)

I'd presume that news of a plane going missing on radar wouldn't have been made public. The first we would have heard of it is would have been hours later when the facts were confirmed. You'd have to wait for the Discovery Channel documentary for the play by play.

Peist2007 wrote: »

3. There would be no trace of who carried the bombing out on board meaning we would not know that it was the Nigerian man leaving the now-reported training camps in Nigeria to be kept out of the mainstream media.

Isn't it the usual modus operandi of al qaeda and the like that they would issue the name of the successful bomber along with the usual gloating videotape? Wouldn't the authorities match the passenger list with a name on a watch list?

Peist2007 wrote: »

Its a puzzler. Taking the above into account i believe that this probably was a planned event for the world to see that could enable a number of proposed actions to be put in motion such as the aforementioned scanners in Schipol or the relatively understated US attacks in Yemen immediately after this story broke.

...

Peist2007 wrote: »

I am not a conspiracy theorist.

I think you'll find that you are:rolleyes:

Peist2007

Excuse me DV i left an important word out of that sentence. I am not "generally" a conspiracy theorist. I acknowledge that i am in this instance because i feel there may actually be a conspiracy at play.

gerrycollins

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Capsuals have been used for smuggling drugs for years, no reason why the same principal could be used for smuggling explosives. A Kilo would be plenty of explosives to swallow.

I am also sure scientists could easily develop a detonator designed to disolve a capsual and ignite the explosives from the gastric acids in the stomach. :eek:

this part actually scares me that a bomber could swallow something and allow his stomach acids to burn away at a pill coating some two hours later then "boom" I dont think the body scanners will be any use in this instance.

Run_to_da_hills

gerrycollins wrote: »

this part actually scares me that a bomber could swallow something and allow his stomach acids to burn away at a pill coating some two hours later then "boom" I dont think the body scanners will be any use in this instance.

That is exactly what I am trying to explain to this guy but he doesn't seem to be able to figure it out.

Even if it is "fiction" and never materializes in real life it is enough to be used by the powers that be in another "stage" set up to scaremonger the populations into accepting further restrictions on freedom.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That is exactly what I am trying to explain to this guy but he doesn't seem to be able to figure it out.

Even if it is "fiction" and never materializes in real life it is enough to be used by the powers that be in another "stage" set up to scaremonger the populations into accepting further restrictions on freedom.

So using fears that may never be realised to influence people is a bad thing?

Isn't this exactly what you do?

uprising

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html
Haskell

Akron, OH
A copy and paste, just incase it disappears
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/akron-oh/TUPJ9IE1R5K5552F0

33 min ago


METRO DETROIT [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]LOCAL [COLOR=#739912! important]NEWS[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] & TALK
The Latest Community, Education, Crime & Government News
Flight 253 passenger Kurt Haskell:'I was visited by the FBI'
By Aaron Foley | MLive.com
December 31, 2009, 9:41AM
Courtesy photoLori and Kurt Haskell
Following up on a visit from FBI officials about an eyewitness account first described to MLive.com , Michigan attorney Kurt Haskell described the visit in comment sections across MLive on Wednesday.
Haskell and his wife, Lori, were aboard [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]Flight[/COLOR][/COLOR] 253 when Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab allegedly tried to destroy the plane. They say another man tried to help Abdulmutallab board the plane in Amsterdam.
Haskell had two detailed posts in two different stories. Here is Part One, originally posted here:
"Today is the second worst day of my life after 12-25-09. Today is the day that I realized that my own country is lying to me and all of my fellow Americans. Let me explain.
Ever since I got off of Flight 253 I have been repeating what I saw in US Customs. Specifically, 1 hour after we left the plane, bomb sniffing [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]dogs[/COLOR][/COLOR] arrived. Up to this point, all of the passengers on Flight 253 stood in a small area in an evacuated luggage claim area of an airport terminal. During this time period, all of the passengers had their carry on bags with them. When the bomb sniffing dogs arrived, 1 dog found something in a carry on bag of a 30 ish Indian man. This is not the so called "Sharp Dressed" man. I will refer to this man as "The man in [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]orange[/COLOR][/COLOR]". The man in orange, who stood some 20ft away from me the entire time until he was taken away, was immediately taken away to be searched and interrogated in a nearby room. At this time he was not handcuffed. When he emerged from the room, he was then handcuffed and taken away. At this time an FBI agent came up to the rest of the passengers and said the following (approximate quote) "You all are being moved to another area because this area is not safe. I am sure many of you saw what just happened (Referring to the man in orange) and are smart enough to read between the lines and figure it out." We were then marched out of the baggage claim area and into a long hallway. This entire time period and until we left customs, no person that wasn't a law enforcement personnel or a passenger on our flight was allowed anywhere on our floor of the terminal (or possibly the entire terminal) The FBI was so concerned during this time, that we were not allowed to use the [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]bathroom[/COLOR][/COLOR] unless we went alone with an FBI agent, we were not allowed to eat or drink, or text or call anyone. I have been repeating this same story over the last 5 days. The FBI has, since we landed, insisted that only one man was arrested for the airliner attack (contradicting my account). However, several of my fellow passengers have come over the past few days, backed up my claim, and put pressure on FBI/Customs to tell the truth. Early today, I heard from two different reporters that a federal agency (FBI or Customs) was now admitting that another man has been held (and will be held indefinitely) since our flight landed for "immigration reasons." Notice that this man was "being held" and not "arrested", which was a cute semantic ploy by the FBI to stretch the truth and not lie.
Just a question, could that mean that the man in orange had no passport?

Haskell

Akron, OH
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#2 32 min ago


However, a few hours later, Customs changed its story again. This time, Mr. Ron Smith of Customs, says the man that was detained "had been taken into custody, but today tells the news the person was a passenger on a different flight." Mr. Ron Smith, you are playing the American public for a fool. Lets take a look at how plausible this story is (After you've already changed it twice). For the story to be true, you have to believe, that:
1. FBI/Customs let passengers from another flight co-mingle with the passengers of flight 253 while the most important investigation in 8 years was pending. I have already stated that not one person who wasn't a passenger or law enforcement personnal was in our area the entire time we were detained by Customs.
2. FBI/Customs while detaining the flight 253 passengers in perhaps the most important investigation since the last terrorist attack, and despite not letting any flight 253 passenger drink, eat, make a call, or use the bathroom, let those of other flights trample through the area and possibly contaminate evidence.
3. You have to believe the above (1 and 2) despite the fact that no flights during this time allowed passengers to exit off of the planes at all and were detained on the runway during at least the first hour of our detention period.
4. You have to believe that the man that stood 20 feet from me since we entered customs came from a mysterious plane that never landed, let its passengers off the plane and let this man sneak into our passenger group despite having extremely tight security at this time (i.e. no drinking even).
5. FBI/Customs was hauling mysterious passengers from other flights through the area we were being held to possibly comtaminate evidence and allow discussions with suspects on Flight 253 or to possibly allow the exchange of bombs, weapons or other devices between the mysterious passengers from other flights and those on flight 253.
Seriously Mr. Ron Smith, how stupid do you think the American public is?
Mr. Ron Smith's third version of the story is an absolute inplausible joke. I encourage you, Mr. Ron Smith, to debate me anytime, anywhere, and anyplace in public to let the American people see who is credible and who is not.
I ask, isn't this the more plausible story:
1. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers on a flight with a live bomb on the runway for 20 minutes.
2. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers in customs for 1 hour with a live bomb in a carry on bag.
3. Customs/FBI realize that the man in orange points to a greater involvement then the lone [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]wolf[/COLOR][/COLOR] theory that they have been promoting.
Mr. Ron Smith I encourage you to come out of your cubicle and come up with a more plausible version number 4 of your story."
Haskell continued his comment in a different post on MLive.

Haskell

Akron, OH
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#3 29 min ago


"For the last five days I have been reporting my story of the so called "sharp dressed man." For those of you who haven't read my account, it involves a sharp dressed "Indian man" attempting to talk a [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]ticket[/COLOR][/COLOR] agent into letting a supposed "Sudanese refugee" (The terrorist) onto flight 253 without a passport. I have never had any idea how it played out except to note that the so called "Sudanese reefugee" later boarded my flight and attempted to blow it up and kill me. At no time did my story involve, or even find important whether the terrorist actually had a passport. The importance of my story was and always will be, the attempt with an accomplice (apparently succesful) of a terrorist with all sorts of prior terrorist warning signs to skirt the normal passport boarding procedures in Amsterdam. By the way, Amsterdam security did come out the other day and admit that the terrorist did not have to "Go through normal passport checking procedures".
Amsterdam security, please define to the American public "Normal passport boarding procedures".
You see the FBI would have the American public believe that what was important was whether the terrorist in fact had a passport.
Seriously think about this people. You have a suicide bomber who had recently been to Yemen to but a bomb, whose father had reported him as a terrorist, who supposedly was on some kind of U.S. terror watchlist, and most likely knew the U.S. was aware of these red flags. Yet, he didn't go through "Normal passport checking procedures." What does that mean? Maybe that he flashed a passport to some sort of sympathetic security manager in a backroom to avoid a closer look at the terrorist's "red flags"? What is important is that the terrorist avoided using normal passport checking procedures (apparently successfully) in order to avoid a closer look into his red flags. Who cares if he had a passport. The important thing is that he didn't want to show it and somehow avoided a closer inspection and "normal passport checking procedures." Each passport comes with a [COLOR=#739912! important][COLOR=#739912! important]bar [COLOR=#739912! important]code[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] on it that can be scanned to provide a wealth of information about the individual. I would bet that the passport checking procedures for the terrorist did not include a bar code scan of his passport (which could have revealed damning information about the terrorist).
Please note that there is a very easy way to verify the veracity of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. Dutch police have admitted that they have reviewed the video of the "sharp dressed man" that I referenced. Note that it has not been released anywhere, You see, if my eye witness account is false, it could easily be proven by releasing the video. However, the proof of my eyewitness account would also be verified if I am telling the truth and I am. There is a reason we have only heard of the video and not seen it. dutch authorities, "RELEASE THE VIDEO!" This is the most important video in 8 years and may be all of two minutes long. Show the entire video and "DO NOT EDIT IT"! The American public deserves its own chance to attempt to identify the "sharp dressed man". I have no doubt that if the video indicated that my account was wrong, that the video would have already swept over the entire world wide web.
Instead of the video, we get a statment that the video has been viewed and that the terrorist had a passport. Each of these statements made by the FBI is a self serving play on semantics and each misses the importance of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. The importance being that the man "Tried to board the plane with an accomplice and without a passort". The other significance is that only the airport security video can verify my eyewitness account and that it is not being released.
Who has the agenda here and who doesn't? Think about that for a minute."

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

uprising

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_gfyd96

http://biggovernment.com/tag/kurt-haskell/

http://www.examiner.com/x-16500-Lake-County-Independent-Examiner~y2009m12d30-Sharp-dressed-man-and-flight-253-what-was-left-out-of-the-story

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19299

Some links, so all is not ok with this story, for the record I was handcuffed, legcuffed and thrown into a group4 cell in schipol a few years ago for not confirming to 2 suits demands, security is TIGHT.

And trying to get through US immigration at shannon in 2000 was a nightmare, and it got tighter after 9/11, so how this man (Jox Bomber), as himself or a sudanese refugee got on any flight to the US is beyond me.

uprising

"All is quiet on new years day", old u2 song, seems fitting here.
There has been a couple of hundred views since my last post and not one reply, where are all the skeptic's hiding?, where are the rebuttals, refutes, etc?.

Or maybe there is actually a conspiracy here, the silence is deafening, anybody?, for or against.

digme

I think it is a case of a poorly presented post, where you forgot to format it into something people would be inclined to read.I skipped it for that reason alone, maybe others have too--just a suggestion.

uprising

digme wrote: »

I think it is a case of a poorly presented post, where you forgot to format it into something people would be inclined to read.I skipped it for that reason alone, maybe others have too--just a suggestion.

Click the first link, was a copy and paste just incase it vanished from the interweb, but if you click the blue writing (links) the story is there to see

EDIT:
Here's all the links, just click on anyone of them,

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/akron-oh/TUPJ9IE1R5K5552F0

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_gfyd96

http://biggovernment.com/tag/kurt-haskell/

http://www.examiner.com/x-16500-Lake-County-Independent-Examiner~y2009m12d30-Sharp-dressed-man-and-flight-253-what-was-left-out-of-the-story

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19299

EDIT EDIT:
Haskell, Lori A (Kurt Haskell*, Haskell Law Firm*)
14716 Allen Rd # 102
Taylor, MI 48180-5400
(Detroit, MI Metro Area)
Phone: (734) 285-5625

Just incase somebody wants to contact him.

digme

uprising wrote: »

Click the first link, was a copy and paste just incase it vanished from the interweb, but if you click the blue writing (links) the story is there for intelligent people to see.
Poorly presented?, from the paddy power man, I didn't reply to your conspiracy........well just because.

I usually enjoy your posts,but in this instance your standards have dropped.You attribute the lack of replies by insinuating that your story is really that dam good, so good in fact, that you have no replies.

uprising

digme wrote: »

I usually enjoy your posts,but in this instance your standards have dropped.You attribute the lack of replies by insinuating that your story is really that dam good, so good in fact, that you have no replies.

Ohh cheer up digme, I was just saying it was a raw copy and paste, thats the way it came out on the paste, it does look sh1t I agree, but the following post had clear links, and the sh1t looking one had links also, just a click would have made it all much clearer, but you shouldn't let formatting distract you from the first real credible links on this thread that there is a conspiracy here.
Anyway sorry for having a dig at you, but your name is dig-me:eek:, PEACE?:rolleyes:

digme

Here's what happened and this is my opinion on why that is.The Americans got that man onto the plane, with or without a passport,it doesn't matter.He was the first clown they found to want to do such a thing in awhile.
He had orders to detonate the bomb at the time he did, for the simple reason, it would be on American soil.
Now, what the man obviously didn't know is, one of the chemicals was switched on him by someone.So the man tries to BLOW up the plane on approach, but nothing happens, only a puff of smoke, and a little flame.Now, everyone is talking about a passport, and an Indian in a orange suit.There are loads of decoys in this story.Indian guy irrelevant;passport irrelevant;lawyer irrelevant;video of sharply dressed man that stands out ... irrelevant.
Don't be taken for a ride.The lawyer is telling the truth, of course he is.The story plays itself out quite well,and with a little help from you and the public it's gold.

uprising

digme wrote: »

Here's what happened and this is my opinion on why that is.The Americans got that man onto the plane, with or without a passport,it doesn't matter.He was the first clown they found to want to do such a thing in awhile.
He had orders to detonate the bomb at the time he did, for the simple reason, it would be on American soil.
Now, what the man obviously didn't know is, one of the chemicals was switched on him by someone.So the man tries to BLOW up the plane on approach, but nothing happens, only a puff of smoke, and a little flame.Now, everyone is talking about a passport, and an Indian in a orange suit.There are loads of decoys in this story.Indian guy irrelevant;passport irrelevant;lawyer irrelevant;video of sharply dressed man that stands out ... irrelevant.
Don't be taken for a ride.The lawyer is telling the truth, of course he is.The story plays itself out quite well,and with a little help from you and the public it's gold.

I agree he was a patsy, I agree the lawyer is telling the truth, but I also believe the other things are also relevent, if only that they show up a pack of lies and bullsh1t that can't be easily explained and fobbed off, actually all that's really relevent is that people cop on to the lies and deciet.
All the "news" is going with is the introduction and "need" for the porno scanners.
Anyway fukk the baastards, Happy New Year;)

Nick_oliveri

I find it hard to agree with either of you, but digme does make the point that the incendiary did not produce the results for such "a professional device". Can anyone clarify the effects of an underpants bomb on a landed plane? Would the plane have had the high oxygen content in the compartments still? If you look at the picture the elastic is black from the supposed combustion. Its hard to spot.

Edit 2: yeah im thinking at this stage that he lit it and it didn't get down to his underneaths. That would have been a **** way to go out. He was dedicated, dedicated enough to suffer the pain of fireball.

uprising

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Can anyone clarify the effects of an underpants bomb on a landed plane?
He was dedicated, dedicated enough to suffer the pain of fireball.

I think this is the first time an underpants bomb has tried to be used, and actually the plane was decending not landed, and yes he was dedicated or stupid/brainwashed/mk-ultra'd, I only know as much as you about underpants bombs, actually its the type of explosive not the underpants that should be studied.

EDIT:
Underpants bomb explosive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentaerythritol_tetranitrate

Bottle_of_Smoke

Peist2007 wrote: »

Guys this is a very interesting thread that seems, as usual on this site, to have been hijacked by bickering over side issues.

I generally wondered when i first saw this story why did the Nigerian would-be bomber only decide to detonate on the plane's descent into the Detroit airport. A friend sitting beside me sagely pointed out that Al Qui'ada would want the bomb to detonate "on American soil" for more effect. However that point of view doesnt sit well with me as i feel the greatest effect would be to have the plane detonate over the Atlantic and i think so for the following reasons:

Another big reason is that when a plane crashes the fireball and explosion would be huge and kill many people on the ground. 11 people on the ground died at lockerbie and thats a tiny scottish town, could be hundreds in a built up area

Black Uhlan

Never before have I been so sure that Al-Ciada is a fabricated crock of **** and the most useful weapon in the Anglo/US/Israeli (and all their underlings in the axis of evil: India, S. Arabia, EU, etc) terrorist arsenal.

Here are two must reads on the bombing and they tie in nicely together:

1. From the editor of Veterans Today

[JUST THE FACTS:

Let's review what we know thus far:

Our terrorist traveled to Yemen to meet with terrorist there
The terrorists in Yemen had been in Guantanamo but had been ordered released by the Bush Administration though they were, perhaps the most dangerous detainees held
The government of Yemen tells us that Islamic terrorists there have been arrested who have proven ties to Israeli intelligence
Our terrorists father, though we are told is a retired "Nigerian banker" actually ran their defense industry in close cooperation with Israeli Intelligence (Mossad)
Our terrorist's visa to the US was never with withdrawn, though he was on a "terrorist watchlist"
Our terrorist, though flying from Nigeria, entered the Netherlands without passing thru customs, something impossible to do without assistance from an intelligence agency
Our terrorist, while at the Amsterdam airport, was being assisted by a man appearing to be Indian, who claimed our Nigerian terrorist was a Sudanese refugee with no passport (no passport was used entering the EU, something technically impossible)
However, Dutch authorities, the same ones who confirmed he entered the country with no passport also confirmed he had a valid US visa, though on a terrorist watch list that is shared with Dutch authorities.
Airport security in Amsterdam is contracted to an Israeli controlled company with, not only the most sophisticated technologies, but, in fact, the company that had developed the concept of security profiling.
The parallels between this case and the Richard Reid "shoe bomber" case are much more than admitted.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9951
[/LIST]
2. Follows the money trail from Yemen to Detroit:

Now, here is what we have learned;

• Yemen increased its national debt to the tune of 5 billion dollars from July to September of this year (they may have borrowed more since Sept). The IMF, World Bank, and Paris Club members are on the hook for that money if the revolution in Yemen is successful.
• A World Bank and IMF indebted super wealthy “free-market” reformer in Nigeria goes to the State Department and then to the CIA in Nigeria to talk about his son.
• That same son, for reasons unknown decides “out of the blue” to sit on a small amount of explosives in a plane in Detroit. The CIA somehow misses the warning signs.
• The FBI announces immediately that the son “confessed’ that it was all Yemen’s fault.
• After the attack, all the banking controlled congressmen and the Obama administration announce we will attack “the terrorists” in Yemen and thus help “stabilize” the current corrupt government of that nation.
• http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/billions-in-recent-yememi-investments-and-the-underwear-bombers-daddy-its-a-small-world-aint-it/

And further reading:

Intelligence Sources - Plane Bomb Attempt A False Flag
Involving Trinity Of The CIA, Mossad, and RAW.[SIZE=+1]
By Wayne Madsen
[/SIZE]http://www.rense.com/general89/raw.htm
U.S. Complicit in Terror Plot, FBI, Media Cover-Up Flight 253 Assistance
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=622472

Black Uhlan

and another thing. Whats the deal with the bomber being filmed the whole time on the plane? Its all very reminisent of the twin towers getting hit and the dancing Israelis from Mossad "documenting the event". Firstly, why are the videos never released? and what is done with them? Are they used in false-flag training excercises? Or just to gloat in their private screenings at Skull & Bones or something?

Undergod

Black Uhlan wrote: »

The terrorists in Yemen had been in Guantanamo but had been ordered released by the Bush Administration though they were, perhaps the most dangerous detainees held
The government of Yemen tells us that Islamic terrorists there have been arrested who have proven ties to Israeli intelligence

Have you got some links for this?
I don't think that some Yemeni Islamic terrorists being connected to Israeli intelligence means that all are of them are. I'm sure they're as fractured a lot as terrorists anywhere.

Black Uhlan wrote: »

Our terrorists father, though we are told is a retired "Nigerian banker" actually ran their defense industry in close cooperation with Israeli Intelligence (Mossad)

That's to be expected really, bankers are often engaged in other businesses.

Black Uhlan wrote: »

Our terrorist's visa to the US was never with withdrawn, though he was on a "terrorist watchlist"

And is that the usual procedure? Can they revoke visas on the basis of suspicion?

Black Uhlan wrote: »

Our terrorist, though flying from Nigeria, entered the Netherlands without passing thru customs, something impossible to do without assistance from an intelligence agency

Was he getting a connecting flight? I'm pretty sure I've gotten connecting flights without passing through customs, though obviously it can vary from airport to airport.

Black Uhlan wrote: »

However, Dutch authorities, the same ones who confirmed he entered the country with no passport also confirmed he had a valid US visa, though on a terrorist watch list that is shared with Dutch authorities.

That is odd.

Black Uhlan wrote: »

Airport security in Amsterdam is contracted to an Israeli controlled company with, not only the most sophisticated technologies, but, in fact, the company that had developed the concept of security profiling.

I don't think you can reasonably say Israeli therefore Mossad.

I'm asking these as "I am interested and want to know more." rather than "PROOF PROOF PROOF OR NOTHING!"

Undergod

Also, many of the sites are saying that the US authorities had advance warning that he might try something. I remember hearing dozens of death threats are made against Obama each day, so perhaps they don't take every tip-off they're given seriously?

Volvagia

I don't buy into conspiracy theories at all, but I am very surprised and the reaction to this incident.

I hate the idea of increased airport security, as a frequent flyer I find the experience tedious and painful enough as it is. As far as I have read the full body scans are only for a select 14 countries, but just the idea of more security checks in the future is not something I'm looking forward to.

I don't really understand it though. So if these new measures taken will stop bombers getting on planes for sure then great, now airports will be even safer. If I were a terrorist in todays age i'd just stay as far away from airports as i could. If I wanted to take as many lives as possible and cause mayhem there are so many other places that you can do this without the trouble of metal detectors, and full body scans.

I just the that this knee jerk reaction to the problem is not going to solve anything in the long run and become a greater pain in the ass for everyone in the short term.

Thank you very much Mr Crotch Bomber.

Black Uhlan

Undergod wrote: »

Have you got some links for this?
I don't think that some Yemeni Islamic terrorists being connected to Israeli intelligence means that all are of them are. I'm sure they're as fractured a lot as terrorists anywhere.

OK Mr Undergod, ask and you shall recieve:- but gonna take these on at a time:D

President Saleh revealed on Monday that security forces in Yemen caught an espionage network for Israel made up of Arab nationals. This announcement came during his speech in front of MP's, Shura Council members, local council members, scholars and military and security leaders at Hadhramout University.



According to the president the suspected spies will be brought before the courts shortly in a public trial after investigations are complete.


The network was comprised of 40 people from different Arab nationalities spying for Mossad, the Israeli international intelligence said sources from National and Political Security Units. The members of the espionage network entered Yemen on the premise of conducting business, tourism and even for preaching in mosques. Art Students anyone?



Saleh said that the suspected spies form a terrorism cell that uses also Islam to reach their targets.Members were arrested individually and found to be in possession of detailed maps for sensitive security sites, intelligence telecommunication units and advanced tracking devices.

http://www.yobserver.com/front-page/10014983.html

The report, quoting an unnamed source, said investigations and data retrieved from a computer seized from the cell, showed there was correspondence between the Islamic Jihad grouSaba quoted the source as saying that the correspondence between the two sides included a request from the Israeli side to implement terrorist attacks inside Yemen

Read more: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/uncategorized/terrorist-cell-busted-in-yemen-had-links-with-israel_100104774.html#ixzz0blW4zJWF

Initial investigations confirmed that the Israeli intelligence system provided support to the cell to carry out terrorist acts in the country.

A security source noted that during the raid on the cell hide-out, the security forces found some of its equipments among them a laptop with which the security forces found out the deputy head of the cell Basam Abdullah Fadhl al-Haidari was corresponding with an Israeli intelligence authority asking support to carry out terrorist attacks in Yemen.

http://www.sabanews.net/en/news165611.htm

If true this is big...

President Ali Abdullah Saleh has revealed that the arrested terrorist cell approved to be linked to Israeli inelegance contacted with the Israeli former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office.

http://www.sabanews.net/en/news166688.htm


Where does Nigeria fit into all this then?

However, the Chairman of the Senate Committee on National Security and Intelligence, Senator Nuhu Aliyu, said he supports the alleged security pact with Israeli. He said "They (Mossad) are professionals and they are here to help train our own intelligence agents. I don't see anyway by which their presence in the country pose any threat to our National Security."

http://allafrica.com/stories/200809050478.html