Dunne vs Mcullogh

cppromotions

anybody interested in Bernard Dunne and Wayne Mcullogh getting it
on in the new year I think it would be a cracker I know Wayne has come
short at the higher level but Bernard coming off a bad loss I really believe
this would be a great fight to come back to and it would fill the O2 I would love to see Wayne getting another chance to fight here in Ireland Personally i think Bernard wins but it wouldnt be easy

T-K-O

that is a no win fight for Bernard as a huge fan of Wayne I did want to see him fight again but he should stay retired.

Vintagekits

cppromotions wrote: »

anybody interested in Bernard Dunne and Wayne Mcullogh getting it
on in the new year I think it would be a cracker I know Wayne has come
short at the higher level but Bernard coming off a bad loss I really believe
this would be a great fight to come back to and it would fill the O2 I would love to see Wayne getting another chance to fight here in Ireland Personally i think Bernard wins but it wouldnt be easy

straight up NO!

I love Wayne, travelled to see many of his fights home and abroad but NO!

If he wants a fight he knows where to contact Pa Hyland, he has three boys that would all jump in with him next year.

Big Ears

Vintagekits wrote: »

straight up NO!

I love Wayne, travelled to see many of his fights home and abroad but NO!

If he wants a fight he knows where to contact Pa Hyland, he has three boys that would all jump in with him next year.

Spot on, despite what Wayne has done in the past his form over the past few years(and he's barely fought over the last 5) is terrible and he doesn't deserve a big fight till he proves he can still operate at a reasonable level.

Till then he's behind Eugene Heagney and Carl Frampton as far as Irish Super-Bantamweights go because Wayne hasn't won in over 5 years and has lost 4 of his last 5.

Hopefully he stays retired though for his own sake.

dlofnep

We know it would sell out for sure. Maybe a few years ago I would, but not today.

walshb

I don't know what is worse, the fact that Wayne is still topical, or the fact that
the fight could sell:eek:

Vintagekits

dlofnep wrote: »

We know it would sell out for sure. Maybe a few years ago I would, but not today.

if Ali made a comeback versus the ghost of John L. Sullivan it would sell out - doesnt mean it should would or could happen.

Vintagekits

walshb wrote: »

I don't know what is worse, the fact that Wayne is still topical, or the fact that
the fight could sell:eek:

you'd tune in to watch it though you sick ould fúcker!! wouldnt ya!!

dlofnep

Vintagekits wrote: »

if Ali made a comeback versus the ghost of John L. Sullivan it would sell out - doesnt mean it should would or could happen.

You're preaching to the preached brother, relax.

walshb

Vintagekits wrote: »

you'd tune in to watch it though you sick ould fúcker!! wouldnt ya!!

Too right, but no way would I fork out money. Two distinctly different scenarios.

akindoc

Personally I'd love to see it. I think that McCullough deserves one last payday after all he's done for the country. This man won a silver medal. Won his world title in Japan. Fought all the best fighters from The Prince to Erik Morales.

However, the problem from Dunnes perspective is that McCullough would be the fan favourite. People would cheer for Wayne, not Bernard. Personally I would be willing McCullough on. Another problem for Dunne is McCulloughs pressure style which could cause problems. And with Dunnes chin, you never know.

Stupid fight for Dunne to take, unless he wants to make a serious amount of money for what he will percieve as little risk. If I was him, I'd be looking at the Munroe fight. I'm sure Dunne will have a tune up next year and then decide.

walshb

I've always admired Wayne, but wouldn't be rooting for him in this one.
Dunne has to win, if he did fight Wayne and lost, I'm sorry, it would be an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment. Nobody should be losing to Wayne at this stage, unless they are more shopworn

BDF

akindoc wrote: »

Personally I'd love to see it. I think that McCullough deserves one last payday after all he's done for the country. This man won a silver medal. Won his world title in Japan. Fought all the best fighters from The Prince to Erik Morales.

However, the problem from Dunnes perspective is that McCullough would be the fan favourite. People would cheer for Wayne, not Bernard. Personally I would be willing McCullough on. Another problem for Dunne is McCulloughs pressure style which could cause problems. And with Dunnes chin, you never know.

Stupid fight for Dunne to take, unless he wants to make a serious amount of money for what he will percieve as little risk. If I was him, I'd be looking at the Munroe fight. I'm sure Dunne will have a tune up next year and then decide.

No way would McCullough be the fan favourite, not even close, unless the fight was held up North that is. As popular as McCullough was in his day, his day has been and gone now. He hasn't won a meaningful fight in years and the last time I checked the only publicity he's getting is from bad mouthing every fighter out there accusing them of running scared from him! That's not a very good way to endear himself to the fans.

Dunne would be the favourite with the bookies and the fans make no mistake.

akindoc

BDF wrote: »

No way would McCullough be the fan favourite, not even close, unless the fight was held up North that is. As popular as McCullough was in his day, his day has been and gone now. He hasn't won a meaningful fight in years and the last time I checked the only publicity he's getting is from bad mouthing every fighter out there accusing them of running scared from him! That's not a very good way to endear himself to the fans.

Dunne would be the favourite with the bookies and the fans make no mistake.

I disagree. McCullough is an absolute legend in Irish boxing and has been around for way longer. He'll also be the underdog and the Irish love an underdog. There would be support for Dunne, but Wayne would get massive support too.

walshb

akindoc wrote: »

I disagree. McCullough is an absolute legend in Irish boxing and has been around for way longer. He'll also be the underdog and the Irish love an underdog. There would be support for Dunne, but Wayne would get massive support too.

Yes, I tend to agree, the underdog tag will help, and anyone not from Neilstown or Clondalkin;) or anyone not related to Bernard, may just switch allegiance here.

Anyway, it is a no win fight for Dunne. He takes it and wins, he gets little or any credit, he takes it and loses, by god!

God, we're talking as if this fight is real

cppromotions

I agree this fight isnt a reality and will probably never happen
Mcullogh needs it more than Bernard

The Davestator

I dunne loses another fight or two, he might need this fight for a decent payday. Saying that, I'd hate to see it

Big Ears

cppromotions wrote: »

I agree this fight isnt a reality and will probably never happen
Mcullogh needs it more than Bernard

Bernard doesn't need it at all, McCullough is seemingly just looking for a payday.
He's accused Dunne of ducking him now, but you have to take that with a pinch of salt when you consider McCullough accused Dunne of ducking him when he signed the contract to fight Cordoba for the WBA title.

Yes Wayne, Bernard was so afraid of you he signed to fight for a version of a World title to get away from you :rolleyes:

McCullough was one of my favourite fighters, but nowdays he just pisses me off.
he expects to be able to go straight into a big fight, even though he hasn't won in 5 years and the fact he can't go more than 6 rounds against a reasonable opponent anymore(as shown in the Ruiz fight, where he quit while ahead on the cards).

He's more interested in working with the UFC now than he is fighting, and he gave up a very promising career as a trainer to do that. McCullough previously trained Alex Arthur(when he defended the European title v Ricky Burns) and Enrique Ornelas(who has just fought Hopkins and was imo unlucky not to beat Rubio and become Pavlik's mandatory), aswell as a few others.

very few trainers get the opportunity to jump in near the top like that, and work with quality fighters. McCullough did and then shied away from it.
He says he'll fight anyway if the money's right, which sums it all up really.
Wayne and his manager want cash.

Vintagekits

The Davestator wrote: »

I dunne loses another fight or two, he might need this fight for a decent payday. Saying that, I'd hate to see it

absolute nonsense!

Andrew Flexing

Dunne is done...everyone knows how to beat him (get in close and rough him up...) he has a dodgy chin anyway. Pity. I liked him but he has a good heart and i wish him well.

The Davestator

Vintagekits wrote: »

absolute nonsense!

A good point, well made. :rolleyes:

I'm a massive dunne fan, but his options are limited and another loss or two, and he might need it. I stand my my point.

alanceltic

akindoc wrote: »

However, the problem from Dunnes perspective is that McCullough would be the fan favourite.

Not true, fairly wide of the mark i would imagine, at the height of McCulloughs career he couldnt sell out the point (when it was a much smaller venue!) Dunne on the other hand, like him or not is a ticket selling machine. Dunne has single handidly (sp?? lol) sold out the point on numerous occassions even when the rest of the card has been p_iss poor. Unfortunately I would imagine that it will be a while before we see the sold out sign go up outside the point for a fight night and even then the whole card will have to be special. So to answer your comment, the proof in being a draw is putting bums on seats and McCullough struggled here.

Andrew Flexing

true...

walshb

Vintagekits wrote: »

absolute nonsense!

Wanna' maybe push the boat out a little on that one

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

Not true, fairly wide of the mark i would imagine, at the height of McCulloughs career he couldnt sell out the point (when it was a much smaller venue!) Dunne on the other hand, like him or not is a ticket selling machine. Dunne has single handidly (sp?? lol) sold out the point on numerous occassions even when the rest of the card has been p_iss poor. Unfortunately I would imagine that it will be a while before we see the sold out sign go up outside the point for a fight night and even then the whole card will have to be special. So to answer your comment, the proof in being a draw is putting bums on seats and McCullough struggled here.

alan, I think akindoc is more saying that those who attend may well be cheering for Wayne more than Bernard, if you know what I mean. Many who attend the Dunne scraps are band wagon supporters, caught up in the hype and publicity from Peters. I seen it myself. They aren't boxing fans. Now, of course, many are. It's a good night out, the atmosphere, the build up etc etc. That's the real ticket seller.

Vintagekits

walshb wrote: »

Wanna' maybe push the boat out a little on that one

why not eh!

The poster made the point that another loss for Dunne and he could be left scratching around for a fight and payday like McCullough.

I think that is nonsense. Dunne's career is at a different stage to Waynes - I would say about 10 years behind the timeline.

I would compare Dunnes career to being in a similar position to where McCulloughs was after the Zaragoza fight. That was almost 13 years ago and in truth Wayne hasnt won a meaningful fight since.

If Bernard lost another 6 fights then the poster would have a valid point but not one or two.

walshb

Vintagekits wrote: »

why not eh!

The poster made the point that another loss for Dunne and he could be left scratching around for a fight and payday like McCullough.

I think that is nonsense. Dunne's career is at a different stage to Waynes - I would say about 10 years behind the timeline.

I would compare Dunnes career to being in a similar position to where McCulloughs was after the Zaragoza fight. That was almost 13 years ago and in truth Wayne hasnt won a meaningful fight since.

If Bernard lost another 6 fights then the poster would have a valid point but not one or two.

Yeah, but the point was that another loss or two, and really, Dunne has nowhere to go.
That's obvious. Hey, would Bernard keep going, only to keep getting beaten?

When Dunne loses, it's brutal, KO loss, not a hard fought loss. This is a wee bit different.

Wayne had the chin to keep going. If it was a case of Wayne getting brutally knocked out three or four times, then it would be a whole different story.

Dunne will keep selling, like others, because there will always be a core band of
supporters who will buy into him.

Vintagekits

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, but the point was that another loss or two, and really, Dunne has nowhere to go.
That's obvious. Hey, would Bernard keep going, only to keep getting beaten?

When Dunne loses, it's brutal, KO loss, not a hard fought loss. This is a wee bit different.

Wayne had the chin to keep going. If it was a case of Wayne getting brutally knocked out three or four times, then it would be a whole different story.

Dunne will keep selling, like others, because there will always be a core band of
supporters who will buy into him.

I think I would prefer to get knocked out in the first round against Kiko than get battered around the ring for 12 rounds like Wayne was against Scott Harrison.

If Bernard was dominated (twice) by Oscar Larios you'd have a point - Wayne has lost half his last 14 fights.

walshb

Vintagekits wrote: »

I think I would prefer to get knocked out in the first round against Kiko than get battered around the ring for 12 rounds like Wayne was against Scott Harrison.

If Bernard was dominated (twice) by Oscar Larios you'd have a point - Wayne has lost half his last 14 fights.

But inherently there is something noble about a man who takes a beating. I hate to see it, but a man who slogs it out getting pummeled is seen as a survivor, a hero, a true warrior, whereas the man who gets dropped so easily isn't all that appealing to folks. Check out Cool Hand Luke!

Wayne takes a punch and keeps going and hanging in, when Dunne takes a heavy shot, it's lights out, folks go home, cry, moan and slate. That's reality.

I heard this when PK knocked Dunne out. On the way home, it was the usual, "waster, glass chin Dunne." From the mob.

Bernard doesn't get beaten up and dominated for 12 rds, if he loses, he gets ko'd.

I too would rather suffer a quick KO loss than a sustained beating, but to the masses, the man who
is still standing vs the man who is flat on his back, he is the hero.

Vintagekits

walshb wrote: »

But inherently there is something noble about a man who takes a beating. I hate to see it, but a man who slogs it out getting pummeled is seen as a survivor, a hero, a true warrior, whereas the man who gets dropped so easily isn't all that appealing to folks. Check out Cool Hand Luke!

Wayne takes a punch and keeps going and hanging in, when Dunne takes a heavy shot, it's lights out, folks go home, cry, moan and slate. That's reality.

I heard this when PK knocked Dunne out. On the way home, it was the usual, "waster, glass chin Dunne." From the mob.

Bernard doesn't get beaten up and dominated for 12 rds, if he loses, he gets ko'd.

I too would rather suffer a quick KO loss than a sustained beating, but to the masses, the man who
is still standing vs the man who is flat on his back, he is the hero.

wonder how the mob would feel if Dunne quit sitting on his stole whilst ahead!?

walshb

Vintagekits wrote: »

wonder how the mob would feel if Dunne quit sitting on his stole whilst ahead!?

I am sure the word quitter would echo around.

Anyway, my point is that a tough son of a bitch is always admired, even by those who may
not like him.

BDF

walshb wrote: »

But inherently there is something noble about a man who takes a beating. I hate to see it, but a man who slogs it out getting pummeled is seen as a survivor, a hero, a true warrior, whereas the man who gets dropped so easily isn't all that appealing to folks. Check out Cool Hand Luke!

Wayne takes a punch and keeps going and hanging in, when Dunne takes a heavy shot, it's lights out, folks go home, cry, moan and slate. That's reality.

I heard this when PK knocked Dunne out. On the way home, it was the usual, "waster, glass chin Dunne." From the mob.

Bernard doesn't get beaten up and dominated for 12 rds, if he loses, he gets ko'd.

I too would rather suffer a quick KO loss than a sustained beating, but to the masses, the man who
is still standing vs the man who is flat on his back, he is the hero.

Noble my ass! It's not as if you can decide how much punishment you can take. You are either blessed with a good chin or you are not so saying that a man who is able to take a beating is somehow more noble than the man who goes down from a good shot is nonsense. Dunne getting up from the first Poonsawat knockdown and trying to fight on was a more noble and heroic act than a fighter who is able to stay standing while getting beat up for 12 rounds.I get that you are saying this is how most people would percieve either situation but it is illogical when you think about it.

walshb

Hey, a man getting up, like Dunne did, is also noble, brave and all that.

Just look at Trevor Berbick in his bout vs. Tyson in 1986. You don't get any braver or as determined than that. Amazing, as was Dunne trying to fight on against PK.

My wider point is that in general, folks thrive on the hard and tough man who can take it and keep coming.

Vintagekits

walshb wrote: »

Hey, a man getting up, like Dunne did, is also noble, brave and all that.

Just look at Trevor Berbick in his bout vs. Tyson in 1986. You don't get any braver or as determined than that. Amazing, as was Dunne trying to fight on against PK.

My wider point is that in general, folks thrive on the hard and tough man who can take it and keep coming.

lets remember that Dunne lost on the 3KD rule!!

cppromotions

Bernard Dunne has a weak chin bottom line he has been exposed on a number of occasions but that doesnt make him any less tough than mcullogh or gatti or ward he has a big heart he has tons of tallent but unfortunately in the fight game you need an iron chin its a pity because there is no fighter more deserving than a few good pay days than Bernard
but if he is guided right he can come back but only if his heart is in it
I also believe he should go spend some time back at the widcard gym, look at the difference it has made to Amir Khan and i believe Harry Hawkins should travel with him that way they can both come away with learning something and Bernard is still staying loyal to Harry, dont get me wrong i am not knocking Harry i think he is a great trainer and person i just feel they can both take something out of spending some time with Freddie and i know Bernard trained there before but that was a long time ago and Freddie Roach has also improved since then.I think Bernard will be back in 2010 and i hope he fights Munroe and puts an end to the bickering between Maloney and Peters any one would think it was them two stepping between the ropes.

walshb

Seeing as Wayne has been so inactive; how does one think a peak Wayne would fare against a peak Dunne?

Okay, can Dunne take the pace that Wayne brings. One thing is certain, Dunne's punches will feel a lot "nicer" than what Wayne was used to, Morales, Rabanales, Harrisson etc.

Wayne didn't have great pop, but enough to hurt Dunne. I say it would be a good fight, but would have to back a peak Wayne to wear Bernard down mid rds. His ridiculous pace and volume would be too much.

Anyone?

akindoc

walshb wrote: »

Seeing as Wayne has been so inactive; how does one think a peak Wayne would fare against a peak Dunne?

Okay, can Dunne take the pace that Wayne brings. One thing is certain, Dunne's punches will feel a lot "nicer" than what Wayne was used to, Morales, Rabanales, Harrisson etc.

Wayne didn't have great pop, but enough to hurt Dunne. I say it would be a good fight, but would have to back a peak Wayne to wear Bernard down mid rds.

Anyone?

Oh yeah, peak McCullough would have little trouble with Dunne. He took flush punches from the likes of Naz and smiled. Dunne wouldn't worry him at all. He would be all over Dunne and Dunne would have to go to war. Dunne would get lured into a war and find himself on the canvas again.

cppromotions

Mcullogh at his peak i believe wins a tough fought contest but i think it would go to a decision Wayne doesnt have any power and i think Dunne would hang in their through sheer guts alone but that would be fight of the year, Paulie Hyland has been mentioned a few times as possibly being Bernards next fight if he comes back ? how would you see that one going.

walshb

cppromotions wrote: »

Mcullogh at his peak i believe wins a tough fought contest but i think it would go to a decision Wayne doesnt have any power and i think Dunne would hang in their through sheer guts alone but that would be fight of the year, Paulie Hyland has been mentioned a few times as possibly being Bernards next fight if he comes back ? how would you see that one going.

I was slated a while back for giving Paulie a chance. If it comes off, I have to root for Paulie, as I'd hate to be proven wrong, plus, both are Dubs, so nobody can say I am biased:)

BDF

Who says Dunne has hit his peak yet? I'll buck the trend and say Dunne wins a UD against a prime McCullough. I know it's the fashionable thing these days to say that Dunne would crumble under any kind of pressure but let's not forget he has never been hurt by a light puncher so with that in mind I think he would use his superior skill to outbox Wayne.

walshb

BDF wrote: »

Who says Dunne has hit his peak yet? I'll buck the trend and say Dunne wins a UD against a prime McCullough. I know it's the fashionable thing these days to say that Dunne would crumble under any kind of pressure but let's not forget he has never been hurt by a light puncher so with that in mind I think Dunne would use his superior skill to outbox Wayne.

It's an intriguing fight with Dunne having his moments and peppering Wayne, but I see Wayne smiling and walking forward and forward and Dunne's lack of real elusiveness will be his downfall. Wayne will be throwing 100 + shots per rd. One just has to look at the Morales bout to see how even Eric had issues. If Dunne had serious consistent stamina, yes, he could do it. I mean, where he has to fight non stop for three minutes each rd. He will need this to hold Wayne.

BTW, Dunne was hurt by Voronin and Cordoba, and Cordoba is definitely not heavy handed.

cppromotions

I have only seen Paulie fight once against Mark Callaghan at the National basketball Arena for the Irish Title and i was very impressed, I think Paulie has a big future in Boxing but It would be a major step up in class from what he has been in with so far, Bernard has been fighting top level fighters for the Past couple of years it would also be a big risk for Bernard a loss to Paulie would finish his career, I believe Paulies team will avoid that fight for the moment but i also know Paulie is a confident young man and if he gets offered the fight he will jump at it. I will be on the fence if it ever happens as i know and like them both.

walshb

cppromotions wrote: »

I have only seen Paulie fight once against Mark Callaghan at the National basketball Arena for the Irish Title and i was very impressed, I think Paulie has a big future in Boxing but It would be a major step up in class from what he has been in with so far, Bernard has been fighting top level fighters for the Past couple of years it would also be a big risk for Bernard a loss to Paulie would finish his career, I believe Paulies team will avoid that fight for the moment but i also know Paulie is a confident young man and if he gets offered the fight he will jump at it. I will be on the fence if it ever happens as i know and like them both.

Who are these? One was Cordoba, one was PK, who else? 50 percent win record with those two.

I wouldn't consider Machado or Marchiano or Faccio near top level, sorry!

Top level to me is top 5 or top 10 in the world.

Glad to see I am not alone in giving Paul Hyland a chance

BDF

walshb wrote: »

It's an intriguing fight with Dunne having his moments and peppering Wayne, but I see Wayne smiling and walking forward and forward and Dunne's lack of real elusiveness will be his downfall. Wayne will be throwing 100 + shots per rd. One just has to look at the Morales bout to see how even Eric had issues. If Dunne had serious consistent stamina, yes, he could do it. I mean, where he has to fight non stop for three minutes each rd. He will need this to hold Wayne.

BTW, Dunne was hurt by Voronin and Cordoba, and Cordoba is definitely not heavy handed.

Both have more power than Wayne though.Veronin was naturally bigger than Dunne aswell, Wayne would not have either the size or strength advantage over Dunne so this would be a factor in Bernard's favour.

walshb

BDF wrote: »

Both have more power than Wayne though.Veronin was naturally bigger than Dunne aswell, Wayne would not have either the size or strength advantage over Dunne so this would be a factor in Bernard's favour.

Yes, he has a slight height advantage.

Like I said, intriguing fight, but I couldn't back against Wayne's far superior work rate and
stamina. I watch Dunne in hard fights with Marchiano and Faccio and something tells me that if that was Wayne in there, then the pace and work rate would break Bernard.

Dunne seemed better prepared for Cordoba, but again, he was on the brink in that fight and Wayne brings more pressure than Cordoba. More punches too.

BDF

walshb wrote: »

Yes, he has a slight height advantage.

Like I said, intriguing fight, but I couldn't back against Wayne's far superior work rate and
stamina. I watch Dunne in hard fights with Marchiano and Faccio and something tells me that if that was Wayne in there, then the pace and work rate would break Bernard.

Dunne seemed better prepared for Cordoba, but again, he was on the brink in that fight and Wayne brings more pressure than Cordoba. More punches too.

Hard fights?

cppromotions

He also had 4 European Title fights which is pretty impressive whether they are ranked in the top 10 or not Bernard has fought at a higher level i am not knocking Paulie I think he is good enough to go along way just dont feel he is ready to step up to fight Bernard thats just my opinion but i could be proved wrong.

walshb

BDF wrote: »

Hard fights?

Well, they were far from easy. He did make hard work of them, that's a fact.

Hey, he won and deservingly so, but they were tough scraps for him.

Wayne is leagues ahead of them lads.

walshb

cppromotions wrote: »

He also had 4 European Title fights which is pretty impressive whether they are ranked in the top 10 or not Bernard has fought at a higher level i am not knocking Paulie I think he is good enough to go along way just dont feel he is ready to step up to fight Bernard thats just my opinion but i could be proved wrong.

Ok, in comparison to Hyland, yes, his level is higher. I was going to say this

cppromotions

I would honestly hate to see them both in the ring together because they are almost neighbours and if Paulie did win then he would probably be the man to retire Bernard and that wouldnt be good.The best scenario would be Bernard Beating munroe and defending the European Title against Paulie here in Dublin then it would be a meaningful fight.

walshb

Do you, like me, think that Munroe is a tougher prospect to Dunne than Hyland?