accounting

m19

Hi, i;m filling out my cao form soon
and considering doing a BA(HONS) in accounting,
although i did not take accounting for leaving cert
took business instead, do you think this is a disadvantage?
also looking for feedback on the course what it's like in terms of hours etc
thank you

unknown13

Depends where you go,DIT have an attitude of everyone starts on same playing field

m19

unknown13 wrote: »

Depends where you go,DIT have an attitude of everyone starts on same playing field

thinking of either athlone or carlow, have you done the course?

smcgiff

Would recommend you go to the relevant college under EDU (see above) and ask any course related questions you have there.

In one way it is a disadvantage - because you'll be starting from scratch. However, have heard that having done accounting in the Leaving Cert was a disadvantage to some students as they relied on their Leaving Cert accounting and didn't do well in the college exam.

Also, the course will assume no prior accounting knowledge.

When you get along in your accounting studies you can post questions in the accounting forum under BIZ (also above) - see you then and good luck!

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

Would recommend you go to the relevant college under EDU (see above) and ask any course related questions you have there.

In one way it is a disadvantage - because you'll be starting from scratch. However, have heard that having done accounting in the Leaving Cert was a disadvantage to some students as they relied on their Leaving Cert accounting and didn't do well in the college exam.

Also, the course will assume no prior accounting knowledge.

When you get along in your accounting studies you can post questions in the accounting forum under BIZ (also above) - see you then and good luck!

thanks, how did you find it?

smcgiff

I did AAT in LIT and then went on to complete ACCA. Don't think you can do AAT through the CAO any more though.

If it is your intention to go on to do professional exams find out if the course you are doing will give you good exemptions.

It's a toughish course but employment prospects are relatively good.

m19

How many hours of study did it involve weekly?
I got an A1 in hons maths do you think that would help?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

How many hours of study did it involve weekly?
I got an A1 in hons maths do you think that would help?

M19 - If you can get an A1 in honours maths you will have NO PROBLEM with accountancy.

In accountancy there's mathematical, theory and problem type questions which your evident math skills will be a definite help.

Now enjoy the rest of your Christmas holidays!

Actually one other question - probably for my interest more than anything else - what other option(s) besides accountancy have you considered?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

M19 - If you can get an A1 in honours maths you will have NO PROBLEM with accountancy.

In accountancy there's mathematical, theory and problem type questions which your evident math skills will be a definite help.

Now enjoy the rest of your Christmas holidays!

Actually one other question - probably for my interest more than anything else - what other option(s) besides accountancy have you considered?

actually had intended to join the guards with the recruitment freeze
decieded to complete a degree, theres no definite career path i'm
interested in, accounting was suggested by my teachers, aside from that
my other options are business related.

ronbyrne2005

Maths will only help a little in certain topics like quantitative methods. Numerical ability is a plus but accountancy is more about standards and laws and more similar to law than mathematics. Obviously some areas of accountancy will require more maths than others but the degrees are more like law degrees than maths degrees these days.

m19

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Maths will only help a little in certain topics like quantitative methods. Numerical ability is a plus but accountancy is more about standards and laws and more similar to law than mathematics. Obviously some areas of accountancy will require more maths than others but the degrees are more like law degrees than maths degrees these days.

thank you, is a large portion of the course dedicated to business law etc?

smcgiff

Mmm - tough one. I know the guards were screaming for good new recruits not so long ago, so not too sure how long the embargo will last.

Am I correct in thinking you're repeating the leaving cert or are already on a break from the leaving cert as you already have your Math result...

How about taking on a legal type course, whether a full law degree or other two to three year law course. This would help with your legal knowledge and allow you to bide your time until the embargo is over ... if you really want to be a guard?!?

smcgiff

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Maths will only help a little in certain topics like quantitative methods. Numerical ability is a plus but accountancy is more about standards and laws and more similar to law than mathematics. Obviously some areas of accountancy will require more maths than others but the degrees are more like law degrees than maths degrees these days.

How the standards are applied is more like problem solving and having the ability to get an A in Honours maths is a good indicator he will be able to apply the standards within the given scenario, imo.

m19

no luckily was quite pleased with the results, travelling for this year,
hadn't considered other options until recently. Considered doing a criminology
degree but was advised to do something different as it wouldn't be
practical in terms of employment other than the guards.
thanks for all your advice by the way.

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

How the standards are applied is more like problem solving and having the ability to get an A in Honours maths is a good indicator he will be able to apply the standards within the given scenario, imo.

thanks im a girl though lol
did you find mathematical ability was helpful to you

ronbyrne2005

the leaving cert accounting was very basic. i got an A in it with little study. Got a B at hons maths and found some of the calculus and probability etc helped witth accountancy and finance degree i did at dcu. Decided not to work in accountancy in the end, too boring.

m19

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

the leaving cert accounting was very basic. i got an A in it with little study. Got a B at hons maths and found some of the calculus and probability etc helped witth accountancy and finance degree i did at dcu. Decided not to work in accountancy in the end, too boring.

how so? does it differ to other jobs in the finance/business
field?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

thanks im a girl though lol
did you find mathematical ability was helpful to you

Sorry - My bad.

I've more experience with the professional exams and while most of the maths are basic you need to be very comfortable with them as you will need to get through quite an amount of them within the time limits of a number of the exams, especially the management accounting and Financial Management type exams.

As you progress (not likely within college undergraduate accountancy exams I imagine, but open to correction) you'll come across the likes of the Black Scholes model, but with practice this will not phase you either.

It all depends on how bad you want to become a guard... If you really want it then criminology would not be a bad choice. Of course half ways through criminology if you change your mind you may be limited to within the criminal justice system at least.

smcgiff

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Decided not to work in accountancy in the end, too boring.

And you went on to become...

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

Sorry - My bad.

I've more experience with the professional exams and while most of the maths are basic you need to be very comfortable with them as you will need to get through quite an amount of them within the time limits of a number of the exams, especially the management accounting and Financial Management type exams.

As you progress (not likely within college undergraduate accountancy exams I imagine, but open to correction) you'll come across the likes of the Black Scholes model, but with practice this will not phase you either.

It all depends on how bad you want to become a guard... If you really want it then criminology would not be a bad choice. Of course half ways through criminology if you change your mind you may be limited to within the criminal justice system at least.

thank you, i've been generally advised to try a completely different route,
which would be more "suitable" for a girl lol
In school my best subjects were maths/business,
did you enjoy the course?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

how so? does it differ to other jobs in the finance/business
field?

Can't speak for Ron, but since working in Accountancy I've worked in...

an Accounting Practice
General Electric - helping them to introduce Barclays into Ireland.
Dell - Helping to transfer their accounting function from London to Ireland
Financial Controller of a software company
Commercial Accountant working on a major airport's 10 year business plan.
Financial controller of a Food processing company.

Apart from practice a lot of my jobs entailed much more than accountancy. It involved helping the strategic development of a company, which I personally wouldn't consider boring. But then again I am an accountant - I'm biased.

But I'm in my Mid-Thirties and my life is half over!

m19

That sounds really interesting,
Do accountants generally find varied employment like that
or are you just very good at your job!!!!!
Have you ever found it boring?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

did you enjoy the course?

I did, although after AAT (two years in LIT) I studied in the evenings for ACCA, so probably not the best person to ask.

m19 wrote: »

i've been generally advised to try a completely different route,
which would be more "suitable" for a girl lol

:eek: Surprised such advice is given these days. I've noticed quite a number of female gardai of late.

Can I ask the question - why do you want to be a guard. And... why do you think you wouldn't mind being an accountant?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

I did, although after AAT (two years in LIT) I studied in the evenings for ACCA, so probably not the best person to ask.



:eek: Surprised such advice is given these days. I've noticed quite a number of female gardai of late.

Can I ask the question - why do you want to be a guard. And... why do you think you wouldn't mind being an accountant?

Good questions! Basically i'd enjoy doing different things where each day is different.
and being active, obviously it's productive because it's such a neccessary
profession
Why an accountant? Well working with numbers etc would be my next preference
i've weighed it up with other options and i've shown the most interest in this.

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

That sounds really interesting,
Do accountants generally find varied employment like that
or are you just very good at your job!!!!!
Have you ever found it boring?

There are two types of accountant. Those that stay in practice and those that start out or transition into industry. I enjoyed my approx two years in practice (left for monetary reasons!) - but would imagine it would get very repetitive after a time. And it wasn't for me.

Even within industry you'll find accountants happy to plod along doing month end duties etc, but really, accountancy is an excellent basis to move into senior management in a company. I would go further by saying that if you are still an accountant by the time you are 40 you've done something radically wrong.

So, while accountancy can give you the skills and opportunities, it will be up to you to go after them. Times are changing within accountancy and more women than men are now entering. However, there seems to be a glass ceiling still remaining (although the best accountant's I've worked with (self excluded of course ) were women) - but that's a whole different discussion.

Yes - I have found it boring at times, but this acted as a spur... especially my time at the airport. I'd still be the FC of the software company except for financial reasons (beyond my control!!! ) and down sizing of the company.

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

Good questions! Basically i'd enjoy doing different things where each day is different.
and being active, obviously it's productive because it's such a neccessary
profession
Why an accountant? Well working with numbers etc would be my next preference
i've weighed it up with other options and i've shown the most interest in this.

You might also want to look into studying to become an actuary. Really Really tough, but if you are very good at maths it might be for you. It's very well paid, and employment prospects are good. However, I don't think it would fulfil your other criteria of wanting each day to be different I'm afraid.:(

Blackbetty68

yes i hope to be an accountant someday also

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

There are two types of accountant. Those that stay in practice and those that start out or transition into industry. I enjoyed my approx two years in practice (left for monetary reasons!) - but would imagine it would get very repetitive after a time. And it wasn't for me.

Even within industry you'll find accountants happy to plod along doing month end duties etc, but really, accountancy is an excellent basis to move into senior management in a company. I would go further by saying that if you are still an accountant by the time you are 40 you've done something radically wrong.

So, while accountancy can give you the skills and opportunities, it will be up to you to go after them. Times are changing within accountancy and more women than men are now entering. However, there seems to be a glass ceiling still remaining (although the best accountant's I've worked with (self excluded of course ) were women) - but that's a whole different discussion.

Yes - I have found it boring at times, but this acted as a spur... especially my time at the airport. I'd still be the FC of the software company except for financial reasons (beyond my control!!! ) and down sizing of the company.

Absolutely agree, there is still gender discrimination in senior positions.
Once one progresses in accountancy and finds challenging projects, from
what you've said it seems very interesting. Did you know that's what
you wanted to do at a young age?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

You might also want to look into studying to become an actuary. Really Really tough, but if you are very good at maths it might be for you. It's very well paid, and employment prospects are good. However, I don't think it would fulfil your other criteria of wanting each day to be different I'm afraid.:(

There seems to be a vast amount of options within accounting,
Do you know what the progression for college graduates is?
What type of work do they begin in?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

Did you know that's what you wanted to do at a young age?

YES - I remember thinking when I was six years of age... Actually, no. I don't think anyone looks up at their mum and dad or winks at the girl/boy at the back of the bike shed and says - "When I grow up I want to become an accountant". Doesn't have the same coolness factor to it as truck driver or Frogman which I think I wanted to be when a kid.

But, no, I know what you mean. Nope, it's only when I was pretty much at the stage you are at that I thought business studies or such like would be interesting.

smcgiff

Blackbetty68 wrote: »

yes i hope to be an accountant someday also

Hi Blackbetty68 - welcome to our insanely late holiday season accounting discussion. Are you filling out your CAO form any time soon?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

YES - I remember thinking when I was six years of age... Actually, no. I don't think anyone looks up at their mum and dad or winks at the girl/boy at the back of the bike shed and says - "When I grow up I want to become an accountant". Doesn't have the same coolness factor to it as truck driver or Frogman which I think I wanted to be when a kid.

But, no, I know what you mean. Nope, it's only when I was pretty much at the stage you are at that I thought business studies or such like would be interesting.

Truck driver and frogman are sensible career choices at 6!
How long did it take you to adapt to the course?, when everything
stops being alien

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

There seems to be a vast amount of options within accounting,
Do you know what the progression for college graduates is?
What type of work do they begin in?

The most traditional route for an accounting graduate is to try to get into a top 4 accountancy practice (Deloitte, KPMG, PWC or E&Y) if you get a 1.1 or 2.1. However, there are a number of other accountancy firms that will take on accountancy (or other) graduates. Some like graduates to have done marketing for instance.

Within a practice you can do down a tax or accountancy route and from there you will gain experience and other options will open up. Within a big firm you're likely to be contracted for approx 3 to 4 years.

You'll have to weigh up the perceived benefits of working for a large practice (big four prestige) to working for a smaller company and getting a more rounded job experience.

After qualifying (or possibly before hand if you join a smaller firm) you will need to consider staying on in practice or heading off into industry.

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

The most traditional route for an accounting graduate is to try to get into a top 4 accountancy practice (Deloitte, KPMG, PWC or E&Y) if you get a 1.1 or 2.1. However, there are a number of other accountancy firms that will take on accountancy (or other) graduates. Some like graduates to have done marketing for instance.

Within a practice you can do down a tax or accountancy route and from there you will gain experience and other options will open up. Within a big firm you're likely to be contracted for approx 3 to 4 years.

You'll have to weigh up the perceived benefits of working for a large practice (big four prestige) to working for a smaller company and getting a more rounded job experience.

After qualifying (or possibly before hand if you join a smaller firm) you will need to consider staying on in practice or heading off into industry.

Did you find that stage interesting/tough work?
Is there any of your jobs that you'd class as the most challenging?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

Truck driver and frogman are sensible career choices at 6!

I thought so

m19 wrote: »

How long did it take you to adapt to the course?, when everything
stops being alien

No matter what course you take on will be alien, but what you start to study should stop being alien as you digest and get to understand it.

But remember, you've just successfully passed the hardest set of exams you will ever face - the diverse and manic Irish Leaving Certificate

m19

I agree nothing could be more nerve wrecking!
also we were led to believe it would be so much worse than it was
some very over dramatic teachers! Then waiting for Aug 12 seemed
like an eternity, just thinking about it............................

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

Did you find that stage interesting/tough work?
Is there any of your jobs that you'd class as the most challenging?

It was certainly challenging at the time. Especially if you're ambitious. The practice I joined really let you progress as quickly as you wanted. By the time I left there were some trainees doing pretty much what they were doing when they first joined.

Each job will have it's own challenges. From the time early in my time in industry when a person (a girl* actually) would take my ideas and present them as their own. Once right in front of me! I can laugh now, but at the time I felt like pulling my hair out. Then there was the time when I was working for a company strapped for cash and had to get it in ASAP.

* I can mention this as I've praised female accountants earlier!!!

You also have to have the confidence of speaking in front of others, but you'd need this in the guards too I imagine giving evidence.

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

also we were led to believe it would be so much worse than it was
some very over dramatic teachers!

Ah, but in their defence they were trying to motivate ye. Rather over prepared than under prepared...

Actually, forgot to mention I've also lectured accounting part time in the evenings!

So, any closer to deciding on accountancy or something else until the Public Sector embargo is over?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

It was certainly challenging at the time. Especially if you're ambitious. The practice I joined really let you progress as quickly as you wanted. By the time I left there were some trainees doing pretty much what they were doing when they first joined.

Each job will have it's own challenges. From the time early in my time in industry when a person (a girl* actually) would take my ideas and present them as their own. Once right in front of me! I can laugh now, but at the time I felt like pulling my hair out. Then there was the time when I was working for a company strapped for cash and had to get it in ASAP.

* I can mention this as I've praised female accountants earlier!!!

You also have to have the confidence of speaking in front of others, but you'd need this in the guards too I imagine giving evidence.

OMG i would have definitely giving her a telling off!
That must have been uncomfortable working with her after that.
Do you think theres any gender preference in those stages
or it's equal opportunities?

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

Ah, but in their defence they were trying to motivate ye. Rather over prepared than under prepared...

Actually, forgot to mention I've also lectured accounting part time in the evenings!

So, any closer to deciding on accountancy or something else until the Public Sector embargo is over?

You've given me the best advice so thank you,
It seems very interesting, the probability is i'll
finish the degree then join the guards unless i
really like it.

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

Ah, but in their defence they were trying to motivate ye. Rather over prepared than under prepared...

Actually, forgot to mention I've also lectured accounting part time in the evenings!

So, any closer to deciding on accountancy or something else until the Public Sector embargo is over?

You really have had a varied career!
Do you enjoy lecturing?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

OMG i would have definitely giving her a telling off!
That must have been uncomfortable working with her after that.
Do you think theres any gender preference in those stages
or it's equal opportunities?

It was definitely an eye opener and good experience. Never told her off though.

Pretty much equal opportunities I'd say. Hopefully if you progress further by then things will have changed. With that said I'd say it's at least as bad within the guards. :eek:

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

You've given me the best advice so thank you,
It seems very interesting, the probability is i'll
finish the degree then join the guards unless i
really like it.

That's probably the best thing to do. Give something like an accountancy under grad degree a go and at least you will have kept your options open. And it really is the best place to be during a recession!

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

You really have had a varied career!
Do you enjoy lecturing?

I only did it for one 6 month's session teaching ACCA's F2 paper. It was enjoyable enough to know that I'd like to get into it full time in an LIT or Uni. But that's very hard to get into at the moment.

However, I couldn't keep it going part time as it took more time than I realised and would have affected the day job.

Yip - accountancy will open lots of careers. Although, it could be said that any degree course will open lecturing degree opportunities. Tired now, so not sure if I'm making sense!

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

It was definitely an eye opener and good experience. Never told her off though.

Pretty much equal opportunities I'd say. Hopefully if you progress further by then things will have changed. With that said I'd say it's at least as bad within the guards. :eek:

Absolutely, especially within my own group of family/friends,
It was stereotypically male fifty years ago but not nowadays,
things have significintly progressed when they were introduced
it was said in the dail the should be unattractive or something equally
ridiculous.

Blackbetty68

smcgiff wrote: »

Hi Blackbetty68 - welcome to our insanely late holiday season accounting discussion. Are you filling out your CAO form any time soon?

yes i am as a matter of fact.. still dont know what to put down first tho

m19

Blackbetty68 wrote: »

yes i am as a matter of fact.. still dont know what to put down first tho

Is accounting your first preference?

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

Absolutely, especially within my own group of family/friends,

Ahh - so you've a good bit of knowledge about the guards so, that's great.

If you could just tell them not to put up speed traps on dual carriage ways that would be great. That's pretty much my only interaction with them I'm afraid!

smcgiff

m19 wrote: »

It's almost 4, sorry for keeping you up so late.

You're at an important stage, so I'm duty bound. It's in the accounting oath they make you take!

m19

smcgiff wrote: »

Ahh - so you've a good bit of knowledge about the guards so, that's great.

If you could just tell them not to put up speed traps on dual carriage ways that would be great. That's pretty much my only interaction with them I'm afraid!

good observation lol
Do you think i should try accounting?

smcgiff

Blackbetty68 wrote: »

yes i am as a matter of fact.. still dont know what to put down first tho

What are your other options/thoughts?