New Irish driving license could become the European ID card by stealth

Run_to_da_hills

If it was announced in Brussels that the EU wide ID card was to be introduced in 2013 there would be uproar from civil Liberties groups just as there has been in the United States over the Real ID card. .

First of all I do not believe the Government has any choice on this matter as our current license is a joke. It is no longer recognizable by airline carriers, its can be easy to counterfeit and also that it has tendency to turn to pulp. It is only a matter of time that the EU will standardize driving licenses and according to the following Irish times article that deadline is set to be in 2013

The Irish Government is only trying to get this all in ahead of schedule.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1228/1224261301432.html


From reading the following report it seems quite convincing that this card could be taken a step further and eventually become the EU National ID card. I have highlighted the main points in bold.

A NEW credit card-style driving license containing a chip that holds information about the driver is to be introduced over the next year or so, according to Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey. He said the Road Safety Authority was examining how this could be achieved. “There is work ongoing on this, and I am looking at trying, within the next 12 to 18 months, to introduce the plastic credit card-type license with a microchip,” he told The Irish Times.

The cards will hold a photo; the driver’s name, address, date of birth, class of license, and details of the issuing authority. It will also carry a record of any penalty points on the driver’s record.
Mr Dempsey suggested the issuing of licenses might be centralized into one licensing authority in a further effort to improve security.

“If you want to tighten up security, do you maintain the system where licenses are issued by 33 or 34 local authorities around the country or do you move to a system that is centralized and has a very tight control on the cards that are issued and that all of the data is contained in one place?

“I strongly believe we need to introduce the card and streamline the system to make it more secure,” he said. The changes are part of a European project to introduce a credit card-style driving license by the start of 2013 to assist cross-border policing of motoring offenses. These will be mutually recognized by member states.Mr Dempsey said he wants to introduce the system “well before that deadline”.

The new cards will have the capacity to carry a thumbprint or an eyeprint if the EU decides to introduce biometric security features, Mr Dempsey added. The Republic and Northern Ireland aim to mutually recognize driving disqualifications for reckless or dangerous driving, hit-and-runs, drink-driving and speeding from early next year.

Ministers in both jurisdictions are also working on a way to apply penalty points to holders of a license issued outside the country where the offense took place, although this is a longer-term project. Mr Dempsey also said he would look at incorporating the new licenses with a social welfare card where appropriate. “I am also interested in whether or not we can include information about whether people want to be organ donors, although there are complications with that,” he said

PirateShampoo

What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?

thecommander

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?

or :eek:'s

Run_to_da_hills

PirateShampoo wrote: »

What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?

Naw, decided to leave it out in the OP.

This is a good one if you want it.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

espinolman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The cards will hold a photo; the driver’s name, address, date of birth, class of license, and details of the issuing authority.

The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'cliamate change ' . :eek:

thecommander

So its the same as what we have already, except its a card, and harder to counterfeit. OOoooOOOooo scary.

EvilMonkey

A driving licence that contains all the information that's on the current one but fits in your wallet, yes please. :eek:

Penn

espinolman wrote: »

The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'cliamate change ' . :eek:

Say what?

mmmmmmm.......

delighted if this comes in.the current licence is way to easy to forge and falls apart so easy.i remember i showed my drivers licence in a few clubs and pubs in australia and they simply laughed and said it couldnt be real!

So what's the problem with this?

Does it infringe on your right to go to other countries and commit traffic offences without penalty or something?

Run_to_da_hills

mmmmmmm....... wrote: »

delighted if this comes in.the current license is way to easy to forge and falls apart so easy.i remember i showed my drivers license in a few clubs and pubs in Australia and they simply laughed and said it couldn't be real!

I agree but as I mentioned in previous threads RFID can be targeted from several feet away so they are not entirely foolproof.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

A driving license that contains all the information that's on the current one but fits in your wallet, yes please. :eek:

Smart card have the ability to gain access to a lot more data than what we currently have on our paper license such as medical, social welfare, police records etc. and what else they wish to retain on your records.

thecommander wrote: »

So its the same as what we have already, except its a card, and harder to counterfeit. OOoooOOOooo scary.

Difference with thses and conventional cards is that these leave a digital streak everytime they are swiped with a scanner. EG you show a conventional license to a cop, more than likely he will just look at it and move you on. You produce a Smart Cart to a cop he will swipe it into the system. Your position is now logged on the database and will continually be updated each and every time the card is used.

espinolman wrote: »

The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'climate change ' . :eek:

Yes there is a foreseeable use for these cards to combat 'climate change', they are fully programmable and could be used to tot up your carbon credits every time you fill up your tank or board an aircraft with your identity card.

And speaking of Concentration camps since you brought up the subject, if they wanted to round you up it would be quite simple matter. Just trace your digital prints and nab you at one of the many portals. :eek:

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes there is a foreseeable use for these cards to combat 'climate change', they are fully programmable and could be used to tot up your carbon credits every time you fill up your tank or board an aircraft with your card. :eek:

There's a bit of a difference between that and rounding up people over 40 into a concentration camp.
But hey it's about as supported as the rest of the stuff you've posted.

And again you fail to actually explain why this technology is bad.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

And again you fail to actually explain why this technology is bad.

It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.

IrishKnight

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I agree but as I mentioned in previous threads RFID can be targetedfrom several feet away so they are not entirely foolproof.

rfid blocking wallet

You can also get ones for your passport, or even make them at home...

testicle

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.

Why? Do you have to be anally probed to apply for one of these cards?

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.

Not really.
You fail every single time to show a single person being wrongfully arrested because of thee technologies.

And this particular one has no more information than you already have on you drivers licence.

So what's the problem with this one?
What's your issue with being libel for traffic offences in other countries?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Not really.
You fail every single time to show a single person being wrongfully arrested because of thee technologies.

Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is only in its infancy?

I honestly don't think so as people would not want it. Already explained in another post. :rolleyes:

King Mob wrote: »

And this particular one has no more information than you already have on you drivers license

I gather you don't have a drivers license or ever saw one. Mine certainly has very little of what these have to offer.

King Mob wrote: »

So what's the problem with this one?
What's your issue with being libel for traffic offenses in other countries

OFF TOPIC, the subject is on the possible stealth introduction of the microchipped EU Identity card through the new Ieish driving license.

There is a thread in the Communications and Transport form discussing the new license.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is in its infancy?

So then no you cannot provide a single example.
You may as well be claiming the same stuff espanoilman is.
There is as much evidence.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I gather you don't have a drivers license or ever saw one. Mine certainly has very little of what these have to offer.

So what's on this one that's not on the normal one then?
Name? Address? Class of vehicle you're licensed to drive? Date of birth? Eyesight?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

OFF TOPIC, the subject is on the possible stealth introduction of the microchipped EU Identity card through the new Ieish driving license.

So then maybe instead of posting links to completely irrelevant articles maybe you can actually address some of the points we're bringing up?

litmus paper

these credit card style driving licenses are available in pakistan and india and in many other asian countries since last 5 years or even more. why not in ireland? its about time we get them. carrying these piece of paper is a nuisance. :cool:

Jumpy

litmus paper wrote: »

these credit card style driving licenses are available in pakistan and india and in many other asian countries since last 5 years or even more. why not in ireland? its about time we get them. carrying these piece of paper is a nuisance. :cool:

I have had my australian one for 13 years now. Its not new.

Run_to_da_hills

Jumpy wrote: »

I have had my australian one for 13 years now. Its not new.

I had a Westrern Australian licence where i did the test when I returned I had to exchange it for a crappy Irish one. :mad:

I must have gone through about 10 of these in the last 15 years. Riding a motorbike in the rain dosent help.

thecommander

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I must have gone through about 10 of these in the last 15 years. Riding a motorbike in the rain dosent help.

So you can see the benefit of having a plastic card then I take it.

Run_to_da_hills

thecommander wrote: »

So you can see the benefit of having a plastic card then I take it.

With out the chip.

thecommander

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

With out the chip.

So you're all for a plastic European ID/driving license card, once it doesn't have a chip in it?

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is only in its infancy?

I honestly don't think so as people would not want it. Already explained in another post. :rolleyes:

Well you have claimed before they would on other issues.The changes to the criminal justice stuff that came in durign the year to combat people and gangs were supposed to have us all rounded up in pens being processed into big factories for rendering according to you, but you went very quiet on the issue soon after and I'm still free to roam the streets.

Run_to_da_hills

thecommander wrote: »

So you're all for a plastic European ID/driving license card, once it doesn't have a chip in it?

Precisely but theres not a hope of it happening as this format is now becoming the standard right across the globe just like the embedded passport introduced in 2006.

In New York you have the option of having a driving license double as a "lite" form of passport although it cannot be used for air travel yet.

These driving licenses also use the 13.56MHZ passive chip which is common in all passports so I couldn't see a problem having them as ID as the hardware would be compatible.

tudlytops

I don't see the problem with ID cards.

I'm Portuguese have held an ID card since I was 10, it has information about my hight, colour of hair, colour of my eyes, my finger prints, etc.

In my opinion only people with something to hide mind these.

It makes life so much simpler, all you need is this card and that is it, here you have driving licences, passports, age cards, student cards, it's never ending.

Run_to_da_hills

tudlytops wrote: »

I don't see the problem with ID cards.

I'm Portuguese have held an ID card since I was 10, it has information about my hight, colour of hair, colour of my eyes, my finger prints, etc.

In my opinion only people with something to hide mind these.

It makes life so much simpler, all you need is this card and that is it, here you have driving licenses, passports, age cards, student cards, it's never ending.

The difference is that You didn't have embedded ID when you were 10. Conventional ID's do not leave "digital records" every time they are tagged.

The more departments that have interest in these "multipurpose" smartcards the more your personal information, medical history police records etc is at stake of being leaked or hacked to the wrong hands. RFID can be hacked at a distant from inside your wallet or pocket.

Stekelly wrote: »

Well you have claimed before they would on other issues.The changes to the criminal justice stuff that came in during the year to combat people and gangs were supposed to have us all rounded up in pens being processed into big factories for rendering according to you, but you went very quiet on the issue soon after and I'm still free to roam the streets.

Its like the "frog in a boiling water" story, when legislation slowly accumulates over the years you don't seem to notice it that much until its too late. Next thing you realise that you are living in a police state. The UK is rapidly going down that road.

Rowley Birkin QC

What is it exactly that you did RTDH??

If it really was that bad they would have caught you by now!

tudlytops

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The difference is that You didn't have embedded ID when you were 10. Conventional ID's do not leave "digital records" every time they are examined.

The more departments that have interest in these "multipurpose" smartcards the more your personal information, medical history police records etc is at stake of being exposed to the wrong hands and possibly leaked or hacked into.

No but our card is renewed first every 5 years then later every 10 years, they are now made through PC with digital finger prints, etc.

That information is already out there and in used by many departments, its in every PC of every office, shop, Guarda station, bank, etc that you have dealt with, as it is it's almost impossible to keep it save, so i can't see how would ID cards make it any worse.

but I can see how they would simplify things and stop diferent places only accepting this kind of ID and another only takes this kind, etc.

Torakx

ah this is the load of b4lls i knew was incoming anyway.
i am a little annoyed they will be targeting social welfare cards.
some people are forced due to financial situations to use the social welfare.
this financial situation may have come because of the governments corrupt and ignorant or not dealings.
once again looking from the freeman perspective or lawfull rebellion,i feel this is nearly a direct blow to these people.part of lawfull rebellion is claiming your rights as a human.
when we all are FORCED to carry identification we are prone to abuse by those in higher power.once they manage to get these chips into passports drivers licience and worst of all social security cards you may find in a few years it will be illegal to not carry one of these items.
now say the old hitler situation pops up again,dont worry it wont remember everyone said "never again"...
but anyway say it does happen again and everyone in europe is on a database.
also everyone may be forced to carry these rfid chips on them.
so now that everyone in europe of a fighting age is accounted for by location on satelite and on location via other devices how do you stop "hitler" then?
i know people who have spent time in prison because they refused to be drafted during ww2 in england.i know times have changed but nobody can safely say that is never going to happen again or that it will or wont be worse the next time around.

if the government and army turn bad like has happened so many many times in history,the more control they have over the public the more damage they can inflict should somebody choose to.

to clarify for future posters i understand this post will be seen as debunked i only ask people to look at it from other peoples perspectives.
i see the good in it also.a nice shiny card compared to some paper wrapped in plastic.unfortunatly not many people realise that to drive a vehicle in legal speak is a comercial act.you only need a licence if you are conducting comercial business according to maritime law which we still live under foremost to national and/or state laws.
i didnt realise how powerful this information was until i remembered i used it in court by mistake not long before i found out all this stuff.
i had alot of tax and insurance claims against me in a very short time.basically a garda ticketed my safely parked car and then proceeded to do so for a few days until i got one in the post a week or so later.leaving me with about 6-8 offences for a delighted garda im sure.
anyway i got off ilegally driving without insurance because i simply told the judge i had not driven my car to that location.i told the judge i pushed it instead(why not i dont have a licence after all lol).
despite the garda pleading in court to have the insurance stick also,she was a fair judge at least and told him in a brisk tone "that doesnt strick remember?he wasnt driving".
i dont share my experience to help people get off there driving tickets but i hope it will show even one person more that life is actually not what you thought it was.
read your rights learn a little about maritime law and common law and the differences between legal laws and common laws.
once you realise who these laws apply to and why,you may find you look at life in a very different way like myself the last 2 years or so.

moral of my story. "The Man" sucks.he will dominate you with confusing words and promises because you dont speak his language.
giving europeans a new licence is a small step in the larger process of controlling more people easier.
so while there may not be good enough reason to stop them right now i have a very strong feeling there will be a damn good reason in the future.

spideog7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In New York you have the option of having a driving license double as a "lite" form of passport although it cannot be used for air travel yet.

In the US everyone uses their drivers licence to fly, unless they leave the country most people don't even have a passport, so I don't know what you mean by that. Personally I'd love to have all this stuff, I'm sick of carrying all these different things around.

My bank card has an RFID chip now too, all I have to do is scan my wallet no need for swiping it (although I haven't seen any shop that has it yet).

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These driving licenses also use the 13.56MHZ passive chip which is common in all passports so I couldn't see a problem having them as ID as the hardware would be compatible.

'Passive' chip means that it gets it's power from the reader, this works by induction which has a very short effective range a couple of inches at most, no fear of satellites being able to read it.

I don't know why all this paranoia. Every government agency that's looking has too much data as it is, they cant handle it all. They have enough trouble keeping track of people who are causing trouble let alone keeping track of your every move.

Torakx wrote:

i got off ilegally driving without insurance because i simply told the judge i had not driven my car to that location.i told the judge i pushed it instead

I don't even know what this story is about but if this new licence can stop people like you getting off with breaking the law then I'm all for it.

Run_to_da_hills

spideog7 wrote: »

In the US everyone uses their drivers license to fly,.

Thats not going to last with amendments in security regulations. Maybe give it a year or two the way things are happening and you will not be let near a departure lounge without microchipped ID.

spideog7 wrote: »

Unless they leave the country most people don't even have a passport, so I don't know what you mean by that. Personally I'd love to have all this stuff, I'm sick of carrying all these different things around. ,.

I lived in Wa and Ca for two years, a Driving license is basically your ID card and is used for everything. Only those that leave the country bother to get passports.

spideog7 wrote: »

My bank card has an RFID chip now too, all I have to do is scan my wallet no need for swiping it (although I haven't seen any shop that has it yet). I hope you use a farriday cage wallet.

Wait until late 2010 / 2011 and NFC will be the latest Buzz word, every shop in the country will have a touch pads so people can play with their latest electronic phone / purse app.

spideog7 wrote: »

'Passive' chip means that it gets it's power from the reader, this works by induction which has a very short effective range a couple of inches at most, no fear of satellites being able to read it.

RFID can be picked up several feet away from the right portal, the range of transmission has greatly improved. This is a good demonstration to how invasive this technology can be.

spideog7 wrote: »

I don't know why all this paranoia. Every government agency that's looking has too much data as it is, they cant handle it all. They have enough trouble keeping track of people who are causing trouble let alone keeping track of your every move.

The reason Governments could not keep track of people in the past is because so many different departments, IE the right hand didnt know what the left hand was doing. The advantage with RFID is that all this can be harmonised in one card. Records can be accessed instantly. With the touch of a button and the correct social security number logged in the authorities can electronically track an individual with precision.

TheNog

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Wait until late 2010 / 2011 and NFC will be the latest Buzz word, every shop in the country will have a touch pads so people can play with their latest electronic phone / purse app.
RFID can be picked up several feet away from the right portal, the range of transmission has greatly improved. This is a good demonstration to how invasive this technology can be.The reason Governments could not keep track of people in the past is because so many different departments, IE the right hand didnt know what the left hand was doing. The advantage with RFID is that all this can be harmonised in one card. Records can be accessed instantly. With the touch of a button and the correct social security number logged in the authorities can electronically track an individual with precision.

Oh c'mon RDH these are ridiculous believing claims the state would be more interested in an innocent persons location and what they are purchasing. I mean no insult to you but it seems to me you think you are more important than you actually are to the state but trust me you are wrong.

And the link you provided is no where near a good demonstration. It could simply be a video which is heavily edited.

Granted I will give you the RFID being electronically tagged from several feet away. I wouldnt like that either unless it is heavily controlled and digitally encrypted so as to be deciphered by an authorised device

Run_to_da_hills

TheNog wrote: »

Oh c'mon RDH these are ridiculous believing claims the state would be more interested in an innocent persons location and what they are purchasing. I mean no insult to you but it seems to me you think you are more important than you actually are to the state but trust me you are wrong.

And the link you provided is no where near a good demonstration. It could simply be a video which is heavily edited.

Granted I will give you the RFID being electronically tagged from several feet away. I wouldn't like that either unless it is heavily controlled and digitally encrypted so as to be deciphered by an authorized device

EFT is another subject, and yes I would be very concerned about the powers in future wanting to know our every day transactions.

We are entering an age of "Global Climate Paranoia" In the same manner as we are currently having a "security paranoia" in the airline industry the powers that be will soon want to have an interest in the "carbon footprint" of every single item you purchase and penalize you accordingly.

I can also imagine that they may want an interest in every financial transaction so as that they can charge you a "transaction tax" to protect the banking sector from "another crisis". By going cashless your civil liberties become transparent.

You may think the above is far fetched but when we read articles like the following nothing would surprise us. We already know that the authorities can retain data for two years and log all our text messages, emails and IP correspondance. RFID technology can only enhance this total invasion of privacy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6210255/EU-funding-Orwellian-artificial-intelligence-plan-to-monitor-public-for-abnormal-behaviour.html

tudlytops

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

EFT is another subject, and yes I would be very concerned about the powers in future wanting to know our every day transactions.

We are entering an age of "Global Climate Paranoia" In the same manner as we are currently having a "security paranoia" in the airline industry the powers that be will soon want to have an interest in the "carbon footprint" of every single item you purchase and penalize you accordingly.

I can also imagine that they may want an interest in every financial transaction so as that they can charge you a "transaction tax" to protect the banking sector from "another crisis". By going cashless your civil liberties become transparent.

You may think the above is far fetched but when we read articles like the following nothing would surprise us. We already know that the authorities can retain data for two years and log all our text messages, emails and IP correspondance. RFID technology can only enhance this total invasion of privacy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6210255/EU-funding-Orwellian-artificial-intelligence-plan-to-monitor-public-for-abnormal-behaviour.html

Paranoia that is the word.

Why hasn't this happen in so many other countries that have had ID cards for years, decades really.

IrelandSpirit

On a purely practical level, I can understand the need for some kinda alternative to the soggy mess I've got in my dashboard, but RTDH I agree with your perspective entirely: "global warming paranoia", "security paranoia", "financial crisis paranoia" and on, and on - all their fearmongering amounts to greater control, it all ties in and it's a mistake to look at things in isolation.

As Bruce Lee said, "It is like a finger pointing at the moon, concentrate on the finger, and you miss all the heavenly glory", though there's nothing 'heavenly' about anything in this case - both the moon and the finger are covered in ****t.

On the surface this new driving licence might seem benign, but we've still got to ask ourselves what the fcuk does information like being on the dole have to do with our eligibility to drive a car. Nothing, but give 'em and inch, they'll take a mile.

IrelandSpirit

tudlytops wrote: »

Paranoia that is the word.

Why hasn't this happen in so many other countries that have had ID cards for years, decades really.

Well it has, if you look at the countries which have introduced/forced ID cards on their people, you'll immediately notice that they had a totalitarian, oppressive regime in operation, at one time or another.

tudlytops

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Well it has, if you look at the countries which have introduced/forced ID cards on their people, you'll immediately notice that they had a totalitarian, oppressive regime in operation, at one time or another.

No tell me in what European countries that have had ID cards for generations is this happening.

IrelandSpirit

tudlytops wrote: »

No tell me in what European countries that have had ID cards for generations is this happening.

Spain for one, what's your point?

tudlytops

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Spain for one, what's your point?

what exactly is happening in Spain that compares with all this paranoid control conspiracies? and since when where they forced to have ID cards, carrie then at all times and check all they buy etc, through these ID cards?

I suppose the fact that Portugal was a comunist country once is a good reason for not having ID cards either.

litmus paper

wats wrong with id cards. they are common in asian countries and in many other parts of the world. they are better than carrying driving license age cards etc. also the paper license is useless this plastic will not rot in wallet. i m totally with this. cant wait for this to happen. only people who do something wrong will be against this id card/ driving license.

IrelandSpirit

The Spanish State is not all senoritas and cocktails in the sun, my friend. Go there, open your eyes and look around. I've met people from the Basque Country, many of whom have been beaten up by police under the pretext of not carrying their ID cards, in the street, and some in full view of witnesses. When you need a form of photo ID to walk down your own street, you're in deep **** and I know that's an extreme example, but in regards these new EU driving liscenses, it's not inconcieveable that they could be a step to introducing ID cards across the EU - given that these driving licences will carry information which has nothing to do with our eligibility to drive.

I mean in all seriousness, what the fcuk do things like being unemployed have to do with driving a car?

It's only a baby steps from driving licenses to passports to 'ID please' (or prepare to get a serious kicking) under the phoney pretext of 'war on terror' or any other paranoia fearmongering tactics we're constantly bombarded with these days.

What anoys me most is that fukced up argument of 'only criminals are afraid of carrying ID cards'. It's the other way round, you'll be made a criminal unless you do carry an ID card. Fukcs sake... as if criminals don't have access to all kinds of ID anyway.

Jeezuz, sobered up again... time for beer

litmus paper

yeah my friend i agree with you wat does unemployment have to do with driving but i like the idea of plastic cards rather than plastic paper licenses.

tudlytops

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

The Spanish State is not all senoritas and cocktails in the sun, my friend. Go there, open your eyes and look around. I've met people from the Basque Country, many of whom have been beaten up by police under the pretext of not carrying their ID cards, in the street, and some in full view of witnesses. When you need a form of photo ID to walk down your own street, you're in deep **** and I know that's an extreme example, but in regards these new EU driving liscenses, it's not inconcieveable that they could be a step to introducing ID cards across the EU - given that these driving licences will carry information which has nothing to do with our eligibility to drive.

I mean in all seriousness, what the fcuk do things like being unemployed have to do with driving a car?

It's only a baby steps from driving licenses to passports to 'ID please' (or prepare to get a serious kicking) under the phoney pretext of 'war on terror' or any other paranoia fearmongering tactics we're constantly bombarded with these days.

What anoys me most is that fukced up argument of 'only criminals are afraid of carrying ID cards'. It's the other way round, you'll be made a criminal unless you do carry an ID card. Fukcs sake... as if criminals don't have access to all kinds of ID anyway.

Jeezuz, sobered up again... time for beer

I'm not sure what you think it's going on in Spain but it as nothing to do with ID cards, and yes I have been there in fact being Portuguese we go there quiet a lot and they to Portugal.

ID cards will not open the doors to beatings, invasion of privacy, raids to your house or any other over the top arguments.

It will simplefly a complicated system of prof of ID that Ireland has at the moment.

And like many others said, I to believe that only those with stuff to hide will be affected in any negative way by the introduction of ID cards.

Run_to_da_hills

tudlytops wrote: »

I'm not sure what you think it's going on in Spain but it as nothing to do with ID cards, and yes I have been there in fact being Portuguese we go there quiet a lot and they to Portugal. .

Spain has a horrendous reputation with Police brutality, My brothers wife is from Barcelona and she has seen it first hand. If there is any proposed EU ID card i will be inter-operable within the EU.

Someone that has a "black mark" on his record in Ireland no matter how trivial could lead to hours of detention, possibly missing connection flights aboard. For instance if you were caught with a spliff in public it could cause you to be detained and questioned possibly getting strip searched every time you cross a border because you had a "drug" record.

tudlytops wrote: »

ID cards will not open the doors to beatings, invasion of privacy, raids to your house or any other over the top arguments.
.

They certainly will pending where you are from, I wouldn't like to be from th middle east and having to forcefully carry one of these throughout London. Could you imagine if they had Chipped ID during the troubles? Doors would have been kicked down left right and center.

tudlytops wrote: »

It will simplefly a complicated system of prof of ID that Ireland has at the moment.
And like many others said, I to believe that only those with stuff to hide will be affected in any negative way by the introduction of ID cards.

You're dead wrong.

Here are some things you'd probably like to keep hidden:

•Your ATM PIN.
•That angry letter you wrote and then thought better of sending.
•Your medical records, did you ever ask your GP for an antidepressant ?
. How about an STD exam? :eek:

We live in a world full of people with bias. Humans love to gossip. Our privacy protects us from harassment by both individuals and law enforcement. Once that is gone there will be no need for evidence, suspicion will be all that’s required to ruin your life.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

For instance if you were caught with a spliff in public it could cause you to be detained and questioned possibly getting strip searched every time you cross a border because you had a "drug" record.

You realise that smoking a spliff in public is illegal right?

And bet you can't find a single example of this happening either.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

•Your ATM PIN.
•That angry letter you wrote and then thought better of sending.
•Your medical records, did you ever ask your GP for an antidepressant ?
. How about an STD exam?

And these are going to be on the cards now?

I'd also bet when authorities say that terrorism across borders is a threat they're scaremongering.
But the stuff you predict isn't for some reason.

indough

King Mob wrote: »

You realise that smoking a spliff in public is illegal right?

not to mention stupid

i mean ive done dumb things like this before but had i been caught i would have blamed myself not the big bad government for enforcing the law

tudlytops

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Spain has a horrendous reputation with Police brutality, My brothers wife is from Barcelona and she has seen it first hand. If there is any proposed EU ID card i will be inter-operable within the EU.

Someone that has a "black mark" on his record in Ireland no matter how trivial could lead to hours of detention, possibly missing connection flights aboard. For instance if you were caught with a spliff in public it could cause you to be detained and questioned possibly getting strip searched every time you cross a border because you had a "drug" record.
They certainly will pending where you are from, I wouldn't like to be from th middle east and having to forcefully carry one of these throughout London. Could you imagine if they had Chipped ID during the troubles? Doors would have been kicked down left right and center.


You're dead wrong.

Here are some things you'd probably like to keep hidden:

•Your ATM PIN.
•That angry letter you wrote and then thought better of sending.
•Your medical records, did you ever ask your GP for an antidepressant ?
. How about an STD exam? :eek:

We live in a world full of people with bias. Humans love to gossip. Our privacy protects us from harassment by both individuals and law enforcement. Once that is gone there will be no need for evidence, suspicion will be all that’s required to ruin your life.

Ask your brothers wife why that is, or look up Spain history, it has nothing to do with ID cards, and the Spanish police has good reason to be on the alert at all times, not that, that excuses brutal force, but where there is terrorism and fear there is panic and brutal force

As for PIN nr, why do you think they would be in a card? and do you think no one as a record of them as it is?

And how would the letter I never sent end up in my ID card?

As for the doctors, I have Bi-polar among other problems, I am not embarrassed by it nor will I ever be.

As for STD's oh well, condoms, condoms, condoms., still it happens to a lot of people not the end of the world.

As I see it its all a lot of panic, paranoia and by the looks of it a lot to hide.

Run_to_da_hills

tudlytops wrote: »

Ask your brothers wife why that is, or look up Spain history, it has nothing to do with ID cards, and the Spanish police has good reason to be on the alert at all times, not that, that excuses brutal force, but where there is terrorism and fear there is panic and brutal force.

"Terrorism" like fining someone €200 for public order offense in a central railway station and when the guy asks for a receipt from the police station it translates to a "fine of €200 for pis*ing in public"

Not log ago there was a Pat Kenny special about Irish Holiday makers having to put up with horror stories with Spanish Police. I know one guy that spent a weekend in a cell for beng drunk and disorderly.

tudlytops wrote: »

As for STD's oh well, condoms, condoms, condoms., still it happens to a lot of people not the end of the world..

Condoms do burst.