Is a physics degree really that pointless?

Michaelrsh

I started a physics degree in September but I getting the impression now that it's kinda a pointless degree. Is this true?

Some people's response's when I say what degree I'm doing are;

"Jaysus, why would ja do something like that for?"
"That seems very hard but what would ja get outta that?"
"I don't see any marketable skills in that"

even such comments as;

"Personally, I wouldn't go for a pseudo-respected degree like that"

and

"Oh, I see, theoretical bull****e"

Is there any truth in this?

Nolanger

A physics degree is very impressive. You could always head off to the States when you qualify and get a well-paid job.

Michaelrsh

Nolanger wrote: »

A physics degree is very impressive. You could always head off to the States when you qualify and get a well-paid job.

In Ireland?

professore

You can always do a postgrad (medical physics, IT, electronics, etc) - or start a business - or apply for LIDL management - or teaching - you will be smarter than 95 % of graduates out there !!! In fact picking a more specific technical discipline is not a great idea these days as it could be obsolete by the time you qualify.

Noelisgod

In Ireland a physics degree is pretty useless in so far as actually using it

Before starting any course you should skip ahead to when you finish and ask yourself how many companies are really going to be interested in physics grads? 2, 5, 10? If it is only a small number and you dont get a job with any of them (highly likely in this market) what do you do then? Your f*cked

If you plan to go overseas when you finish then fair enough but if you plan to stay here then I think you need a re-think or at least have a serious chat with your course administrator and ask them this exact question

ravydavygravy

My wife graduated with a physics degree in 2002, and out of a class of ~25, only a handful ended up in jobs. Many of them stayed on in research in various guises however (postgrads, post docs, hospitals, government agencies abroad, etc...)

I think physics degrees are aimed at doing pure physics (research) reallly. Most jobs can't use the skills a physics graduate has - one of the girls from the class kept getting asked at interviews if she was able to use a computer (thats all they wanted).

(FYI - the jobs people did get were in medical physics, geotechnical engineering and industrial water pump techincal sales)

Professor_Fink

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Is there any truth in this?

Not really. Physics is probably one of the most versatile degrees to do, since it ticks a lot of the numerate/problem solving tick boxes for a lot of jobs. I know a huge number of people with physics degrees (being a physicist myself), and I am not aware of any currently lacking employment. Most people don't stay in physics, but move into computers, banking and finance, consulting or defense work.

I know there will be a some naysayers here, since there are a few people who like to say how foolish they think we physicists are, or are unhappy with their degree choice, but they are flat out wrong about the employment prospects.

As it turns out, physics graduates are among the highest paid of any discipline. Unfortunately I can't find the link right now, but there was a recent study (I think from Jupiter Research).

Also, you may like to see this from Communications of the ACM (the computer industry professional association):

http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2010/1/55760-what-should-we-teach-new-software-developers-why/fulltext

In particular note the lines:

"We don't hire CS graduates; it's easier to teach a physicist to program than to teach a CS graduate physics."

So ignore the naysayers...

Michaelrsh

Professor_Fink wrote: »

Not really. Physics is probably one of the most versatile degrees to do, since it ticks a lot of the numerate/problem solving tick boxes for a lot of jobs. I know a huge number of people with physics degrees (being a physicist myself), and I am not aware of any currently lacking employment. Most people don't stay in physics, but move into computers, banking and finance, consulting or defense work.

I know there will be a some naysayers here, since there are a few people who like to say how foolish they think we physicists are, or are unhappy with their degree choice, but they are flat out wrong about the employment prospects.

As it turns out, physics graduates are among the highest paid of any discipline. Unfortunately I can't find the link right now, but there was a recent study (I think from Jupiter Research).

Also, you may like to see this from Communications of the ACM (the computer industry professional association):

http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2010/1/55760-what-should-we-teach-new-software-developers-why/fulltext

In particular note the lines:


So ignore the naysayers...

Thanks for the response. Yes, I do take heed of the naysayers a lot, lol, but who need them!

I've been pondering about the idea of going into a finance/banking sort of career, maybe software. Seeing that you are a physicist, and you might have experience in this area, would you need a masters or Ph.D. to go into any of those fields or could you get into them with just a B.Sc. in physics?

Also, are the recruiters you are talking about Irish or from somewhere else? What might the job outlook for a physics grad in Ireland in 4 years time (i.e., post-recession (hopefully))?

Professor_Fink

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Thanks for the response. Yes, I do take heed of the naysayers a lot, lol, but who need them!

I've been pondering about the idea of going into a finance/banking sort of career, maybe software. Seeing that you are a physicist, and you might have experience in this area, would you need a masters or Ph.D. to go into any of those fields or could you get into them with just a B.Sc. in physics?

Also, are the recruiters you are talking about Irish or from somewhere else? What might the job outlook for a physics grad in Ireland in 4 years time (i.e., post-recession (hopefully))?

No PhD for most, although some areas like them. Physics PhDs seem to be particularly prevalent in finance. Software usually doesn't require any extra qualifications, nor consulting.

Most of the recruiting tends to be by big international firms, but that is not to say smaller ones won't value a physics degree. Honestly, physics has a very low unemployment rate, recession or not.

Genghiz Cohen

Physics and games programming are very close.
Out of a 4 year course half was physics; movement, inertia, collision response, vectors, matrices and quaternions.

If you teach yourself a bit of programming, Havok and Ageia are 2 places you would get a job that a normal games developer wouldn't.

Michaelrsh

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Physics and games programming are very close.
Out of a 4 year course half was physics; movement, inertia, collision response, vectors, matrices and quaternions.

If you teach yourself a bit of programming, Havok and Ageia are 2 places you would get a job that a normal games developer wouldn't.

I'm 6 month in my course and so far we've covered all the topics you mentioned. Anyway I have to do programming in C++ for something to do with experimental modelling in 3rd and 4th year. I think I better get cracking learning programming, haven't the siltest clue where to start, lol.

Genghiz Cohen

Michaelrsh wrote: »

I'm 6 month in my course and so far we've covered all the topics you mentioned. Anyway I have to do programming in C++ for something to do with experimental modelling in 3rd and 4th year. I think I better get cracking learning programming, haven't the siltest clue where to start, lol.

You should probably email the lecturer you'll have and ask what compiler and topics you'll be covering, then hit up the college library.

dudara

I no longer work in Physics - after a PhD I was tired of the confined academic world - but I don't regret my degree - in fact I think it gave me great freedom in choosing a career. I'd still do physics in the morning.

Physics is the purest science in my opinion, and to be a good physicist requires a lot of additional skills - maths, logic, problem solving etc. These all readily translate into lots of other jobs.

When in college, make sure that you are doing the right degree for you. Don't worry too much about careers afterwards.

If it is the right degree for you, you will learn and enjoy and this will work to your advantage later.

What's better - an enthusiastic, passionate graduate from a subject that they truly liked, or a graduate from another discipline who did it solely for job prospects?

mconigol

OP, a physics degree is one of the best degree's you can do in my (biased!) opinion. There's plenty of opportunitys out there for a physics graduate, many more options than would be available to say someone with a civil engineering degree for example.

Just because there's no obvious career path doesn't make it pointless degree. You're free to work in a wide range of different fields, some physics related, some not, but what's so good about it is the range of skills and intelligence that physicists possess.

A lot of people do stay in academia but I think that's more to do with the type of person who study's physics. I chose to go straight into industry, luckily enough stayed in physics but I know people in finance and insurance, working as traders etc...and doing very well for themselves so definitely don't worry about what other's think of your course choice. You have to be true to yourself at the end of the day! A lot of people are uncomfortable with not being able to associate a specific job title with a course. Personally I 'd hate a label that describes exactly what I do!

mickeym

I agree that a physics degree is one of the most versatile degrees you can have and is never a waste of time. I personally have a physics degree and work in pharmaceuticals (ok not very far removed as it is still in science). And when looking for jobs after college, although a physics degree wasn't always specifically asked for in job ads, it was always a benefit to me when going for jobs. My only real 'advice' is not to get too bogged down in theoretical side of physics make sure to throw in a few practical based subjects too eg measurement science. Basically most employers need to know that you are able to apply the science aswell as waffle about the theory

Clseeper

I've a physics degree and currently working in industry. Admittedly I count myself lucky enough that I have a position which really utilizes my degree. Having said that, physics is so broad that you’ll probably never use all you learn. I never knew what I wanted to do with my degree even up to graduating. Things just fell into place after I got my first job. I’m happy where I am now (for now).

From my graduating class, and the general trend, a large portion of people who do physics stay in academia. The ones that did go into industry end up in very broad range of job. Finance, IT, teaching etc. Ours was an applied course so we had exposure to everything from programming to electronics to the real 'proper' pure physics.

I’d ignore the nay-sayers. If you’re doing something you love and are good at it, the rest will work itself out. The amount of people who actually make it the whole way through their started degree is low enough. Funny the comment “I don't see any marketable skills in that”, that’s what I’d say about the majority of non science degrees. What can you do with English, history and sociology? I used to always get one of three reactions from people when I tell them my degree

[1] What’s that?
[2] Oh (with a bit of awe or possibly stepping slowly away)
[3] So do you know how … works? (Dyson hover, nuclear fusion etc)

Physics is seen as a hard course and is definitely well respected from an employers perspective. Surely if you can manage detailed quantum mechanic, calculus of several variables and even some heavy wave optics you can handle anything most employers will throw at you.

Personally I don't see a massive merit in obtaining a Phd however personal circumstances would definitely have an influence on this.

Who is telling you these things? Are they people you respect and aspire to be like? Or just friends and the odd uncle or aunt? You’ve set your sights high, stick with it.

InReality

I have a degree in philosphy.
I got asked pretty often what was the point of studing that !
So hope some of this helps

1.
Well why your studying something is a fair question , don't you think ?
You'll be at if for a few years so its no harm to have put a bit of thought into picking it.

2.
As for it being hard , thats not a bad thing in itself . Its no harm having a bit of a challange altough thats a bit of a different mindset to "doing easy subject for points" mentality that happens with leaving cert subjects.

3.
Marketable skills is a BS phrase. Almost any form of training , education , work , travel etc can give you marketable skills. Don't be picking courses on this basis.

4.
Pesudo-respected degree ? I don't even know what that means
Its respected but it should not be ? What did this person give as an example
as a respectable degree ?
I've never heard of any degree described like that .

5.
Theory being BS. Well I disagree with this outlook , no subject is pure theory or practical.

I agree with most of the other posters advice/comments.

Things I'd keep in mind :
Do you like the subject ?
Is there another subject you might like more ?
Are you good at it ?
What sort of general career/job would you like to have by the time your in your mid 20's.
Thats pretty much all you have to decide.

Employers in general business like a good degree ( 2.1 or 2.2 say ).
Thats about it and normally only matters for getting your first job anyway.
Most I'd say would see a physics degree as a bonus , as you will have a high level of numeracy, and it has a rep as a hard subject.
I'ved worked in software dev , for about 10 years now , and loads of people have science degrees , business degrees arts degrees as well as the odd CS degree.

So if you like your course stick with it !

nesf

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Is there any truth in this?

As others have said, there isn't truth in this so long as you get a decent degree mark. If you barely scrape a pass degree then a physics degree isn't as valuable. If you can achieve a good 2.1 or 1st it opens a lot of doors in careers that like people with "quantitative backgrounds". Finance is certainly one of these areas.

Your best bet is to have a chat with companies recruiting in the areas you want to work in at the next recruitment fair your college organises. They should be able to give you an idea on whether post grad qualifications are useful for the specific type of work you're interested in.

Michaelrsh

nesf wrote: »

As others have said, there isn't truth in this so long as you get a decent degree mark. If you barely scrape a pass degree then a physics degree isn't as valuable. If you can achieve a good 2.1 or 1st it opens a lot of doors in careers that like people with "quantitative backgrounds". Finance is certainly one of these areas.

Your best bet is to have a chat with companies recruiting in the areas you want to work in at the next recruitment fair your college organises. They should be able to give you an idea on whether post grad qualifications are useful for the specific type of work you're interested in.

Yeah, I heard that a 2.2 is prity worthless unless you want teaching. I think I heard somewhere that you need a 2.1 to get into a masters anyway which might be an opinion for me in the future.

transylman

The previous poster was right in there are not many jobs in this country specifically for physics graduates.

Of the three main areas:

In semiconductors there is intel and analog.
In medical physics there are boston scientific and medtronics, and a few others.
In optoelectronics there a number of small companies.


If you want a degree with a high probability of getting a job at the end go for something in the area of health sciences or biotechnology.

Michaelrsh

transylman wrote: »

The previous poster was right in there are not many jobs in this country specifically for physics graduates.

Of the three main areas:

In semiconductors there is intel and analog.
In medical physics there are boston scientific and medtronics, and a few others.
In optoelectronics there a number of small companies.


If you want a degree with a high probability of getting a job at the end go for something in the area of health sciences or biotechnology.

Well how about transferability of a physics degree? Not all physics graduates work in physics. Health science graduates don't have the same numerical or much of the analytical skill that physics graduates have. Health science graduates might have more opportunities within science but not as much opportunites outside science. Or is my version of reality just distorted?

Michaelrsh

Michaelrsh wrote: »

I started a physics degree in September but I getting the impression now that it's kinda a pointless degree. Is this true?

Some people's response's when I say what degree I'm doing are;

"Jaysus, why would ja do something like that for?"
"That seems very hard but what would ja get outta that?"
"I don't see any marketable skills in that"

even such comments as;

"Personally, I wouldn't go for a pseudo-respected degree like that"

and

"Oh, I see, theoretical bull****e"

Is there any truth in this?

I heard all that muck when I was at college, I did Applied Physics and Instrumentation in CIT, admittedly it is very industry focussed but you get a Bachelor of Science out of it so there is enough actual physics in it. The main reason I chose it was because engineering courses looked so so boring and open days in colleges did nothing to change my mind. Also I like messing with cars and bicycles and mechanical stuff so I knew the Physics and Maths course in UCC was not for me.

A few of my buddies are out of work at the moment but that's only recent due to the economic climate, I can't fault the course really, it got me a job and is well respected in industry.

If you like what your doing at college and are interested in it, stick with it and enjoy the course, worry about getting a job when the time comes, if the worst comes to the worst you can do a taught masters in something that offers better job prospects if you need to.

nitrogen

Michaelrsh wrote: »

"Personally, I wouldn't go for a pseudo-respected degree like that"

Oh the irony!

Michaelrsh

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Yeah, I heard that a 2.2 is prity worthless unless you want teaching

I got a 2.2 and it never hindered me, one of the buddies got a pass degree and he is flying too.

pisslips

I feel that thinking about future career prospects is a waste of time, it never really entered my head until recently, when I thought I might be forced to get a job.

Maybe it depends on the outlook of the individual but I always liked the learning part of school and I see no reason why I can't continue learning how things work. Life is a marathon not a sprint. Just make sure you're reasonably happy in the moment and if you are always doing what you like then you'll continue to do it possibly indefinitely[This is the ideal situation]. So if you disregard all the bull**** of 'careers' and 'respected degrees' etc. It's just you and whatever you want to do. You will never starve on the street but you may die from stress with more money(possibly) in your back pocket.

As time progresses you're individual qualities will become more apparent and then you'll have to make decisions based on that. Perhaps you'll be very empathic or you'll be good analytically or you are a good organiser or a good public speaker etc.. There is a place for these skills in every field.

That might be all BS but all I really know is that I never thought about it. Thanks to my false sense of confidence!

Be confident!...thats my life message.

Michaelrsh

pisslips wrote: »

I feel that thinking about future career prospects is a waste of time, it never really entered my head until recently, when I thought I might be forced to get a job.

You can't build a good building without construction plans, drawings, a knowledge of the materials you are going to use and how your going to use them and put them in place. If your don't make these plans for the building before building it there is a higher probability that the building will be structurally flawed and ultimately fall to ruin. Would you think that a buyer would be willing to buy a building that is built badly or well built? An employee's career should be seen as though it's the building and the buyer should be viewed as the employer observing his/ her career and qualifications. Basically, I don't think a waste of time to think about one's career prospects. That's just me however.

Out of interest what Physics course are you doing OP ?

Michaelrsh

RoverJames wrote: »

Out of interest what Physics course are you doing OP ?

Physics with Astronomy and Space Science in UCD.

Conor108

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Physics with Astronomy and Space Science in UCD.

No. 3 on my CAO! Will probably end up in that if I get my no. 1 (Science in UCD)

Michaelrsh

Conor108 wrote: »

No. 3 on my CAO! Will probably end up in that if I get my no. 1 (Science in UCD)

Don't worry, you'll get your first, DN033 and DN008 had basically the same points. However DN033 seems to be kinda popular this year so the points for that will deffo be over 400. The same goes for the omnibus science, I'd say the points will be like 420 (ish) for that.

wyrn

I couldn't get a job with my physics degree. Ok the recession may have had something to do with it. This was several years ago & alot of the big well known companies I applied to had ads for their internships and graduate programs but either didn't run them or had very few entries. Think that was the start of the recession. Out of my class most of us went on to postgraduate studies and the one person who didn't couldn't and hasn't gotten a 'real' job with their degree.

I found the biggest problem was not knowing what companies took physicists. The majority of companies I applied to had jobs for either 1. Engineers or 2. Computer Scientists. I applied for both but rarely heard back.

A lot of questions HR people asked me was "what is physics", "what did you learn" etc... I was truly shocked that HR knew little to nothing about physics graduates.

Physics is interesting, hard at times and a good chance for learning maths and programming (which is invaluable).

Good luck with making the choice. I don't regret mine.

Bodicea

It depends on where you want to go with it. I was in this dilemma 15 years ago. I really wanted to study physics but from the few I spoke to I got the impression that a physics degree is impressive on the CV, and yeh, Professor Fink is right, about it being easier to teach a physics graduate, but not enough as a standalone if you want to get into the forefront of research. Not only do you need the physics, but a plethora of other stuff too, just to keep up with the competition. Progamming, maths, electronics..you name, a lot of them have it and the competition for jobs is brutal.

As a result I opted for electronics and telecommunications and had job offers before I even got through 2nd year (studied in the UK). You wouldnt believe the perks I was being offered. I think being female helped . A few years ago I returned home to west of Ireland and my degree is worthless, as is my experience. I'd have to move to Dublin if I wanted a job relevant to my background, but I left UK to get out of living in a constant traffic jam.

At the end of the day, do what you really want to do, what you enjoy and what interests you enough to make you want to get out of bed every day for the next 40 years.....the rest will follow.

ardmacha

and a good chance for learning maths and programming

al

And those skills are welcome in many growing segments of business, like Business Analytics.

Michaelrsh

ardmacha wrote: »

al

And those skills are welcome in many growing segments of business, like Business Analytics.

I'm kinda interested in the financial sector as a possible career direction, I hear I can do a masters in Quantitative Finance with a physics degree in UCD, although I need to get a 2.1.