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    #122
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Paulw wrote: »
    Wow.

    I must say, I was never aware of blogs.boards.ie. I'm wondering if your use of images there, taken from boards.ie forum is not already a breach of copyright, since the image is being used in a blog without the expressed permission of the copyright owner?

    What you posted isn't a screenshot, it's a data grab from the forum.

    I would have expected that blogs.boards.ie is separate from www.boards.ie forum?

    Actually it's probably worse than that, the images appear to have been downloaded from pix.ie and uploaded to the boards blog server, without permissions of the copyright owners.

    Taking the second photo, the one on the blog is
    http://blog.boards.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/D12BCDE60E9044E9A4DFC2E71141C42C.jpg

    And the original is
    http://photos3.pix.ie/D1/2B/D12BCDE60E9044E9A4DFC2E71141C42C-800.jpg

    Which means someone downloaded it from pix.ie, resized it, renamed it and uploaded it to the boards blog server.


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    #123
    DK32
    Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭DK32


    To save me reading through the last 9 pages, anyone feel like providing a summary of what changes have been made and how this affects photogs posting images on this forum.

    :)


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    #124
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Darragh wrote: »
    So, the new TOU only apply to images you posted after December 23. We will also, once the new terms as above go live, seek to retrosepectively enforce those. We want your work to be yours, and your rights to be protected as much as possible.

    My understanding is that legally you cannot do that. You cannot make a new condition retrospective without explicitely stating that you wish it, and also giving the user the option to decline and have their works removed. I'll try and dig out the case law for this, but there certainly is case law for it.

    From that statement, I certainly won't be posting any more photos on boards.ie and will also consider removing any image links from previous posts.


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    #125
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    I should say also however, my above post is moot, if the permissions of the copyright owners were given prior to uploading the images to the boards servers.


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    #126
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Paulw wrote: »

    From that statement, I certainly won't be posting any more photos on boards.ie and will also consider removing any image links from previous posts.

    Apparantly you can't do that :eek:


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    #127
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    I should say also however, my above post is moot, if the permissions of the copyright owners were given prior to uploading the images to the boards servers.

    In most cases, (looking at source code) the images weren't uploaded to boards.ie but were linked to from pix.ie or flickr. So, in that case, permission was not given to use the images anywhere other than boards.ie forum.
    Covey wrote: »
    Apparantly you can't do that :eek:

    Watch me !!! I certainly can, since the images aren't hosted on boards.ie, if I remove them at source (flickr, pix.ie, my website) then they become lost links of boards.ie and you get a "file not found" error.


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    #128
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Paulw wrote: »
    Watch me !!! I certainly can, since the images aren't hosted on boards.ie, if I remove them at source (flickr, pix.ie, my website) then they become lost links of boards.ie and you get a "file not found" error.

    Ah sure, but you can't remove the image link in Boards. Thats a right pain in the arse deleting photos from a source that presumably you don't have any problem with and comments or whatever are lost as well. I'm not liking this at all.


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    #129
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    The problem here is that, under both the new and old T&C's someone is not understanding that wrapping IMG tags around a link does not confer any ownership of the content at the other end of that link.

    Any more than me pointing out that my website is www.hughwphamill.com confers any rights over the content at that website.

    Boards.ie can reproduce that text as much as they like, but they cannot start downloading and reusing content from that website.

    Wrapping IMG tags around something doesn't change this.

    I'd like this clarified asap, we're into a completely different world now than just talking about content which is uploaded to a boards server by the user. Boards.ie cannot grant itself permissions over content at the end of a link.


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    #130
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    The problem here is that, under both the new and old T&C's someone is not understanding that wrapping IMG tags around a link does not confer any ownership of the content at the other end of that link.

    Any more than me pointing out that my website is www.hughwphamill.com confers any rights over the content at that website.

    Boards.ie can reproduce that text as much as they like, but they cannot start downloading and reusing content from that website.

    Wrapping IMG tags around something doesn't change this.

    I'd like this clarified asap, we're into a completely different world now than just talking about content which is uploaded to a boards server by the user. Boards.ie cannot grant itself permissions over content at the end of a link.

    Your missing the point Hugh.

    The image stays on Boards (albeit through a link) and you have no control over that except deleting it at source which you may not wish to do.


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    #131
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Covey wrote: »
    Your missing the point Hugh.

    The image stays on Boards (albeit through a link) and you have no control over that except deleting it at source which you may not wish to do.

    That's always been the case though, and isn't changing, I'm not overly concerned by that though, any more than not being able to go back and edit text in a post I made years ago. If you link to content you don't want shared then break the link.

    I can't think of any reason you'd want to leave your image publicly available, but not linked through boards.ie, there is no implicit permission over content at the end of a link granted by posting that link. However, someone on the boards blog, likely through ignorance, seems to think there is.


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    #132
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    You do realise that we've changed nothing technically? You are able and unable to do exactly the same thing with your posts and on this forum today as you were a month ago?


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    #133
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Re Boards blog comment Hugh, I don't get you. If you don't want your image on the Boards blog, ask for it to be removed. Simple as that.


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    #134
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    If you link to content you don't want shared then break the link.

    I can't think of any reason you'd want to leave your image publicly available, but not linked through boards.ie

    The issue is you can't break the link except at source. I can think of many reasons why I would like leave an image available elsewhere and not linked through Boards, one of which is a change in the TOU's that I'm not happy with.


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    #135
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Darragh wrote: »
    You do realise that we've changed nothing technically? You are able and unable to do exactly the same thing with your posts and on this forum today as you were a month ago?

    I think (hope) everyone is aware of that.

    It's more the usage of images, and the new proposed TOS, etc.

    The blogs bit is really surprising, and I was unaware that my images may be displayed there, without my expressed permission, which is a breach of my copyright on my images (same with everyone else's images, except if they're marked as CC).


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    #136
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Darragh wrote: »
    You do realise that we've changed nothing technically? You are able and unable to do exactly the same thing with your posts and on this forum today as you were a month ago?

    True, except now we're made aware of certian things that some of us weren't before.


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    #137
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Darragh wrote: »
    Re Boards blog comment Hugh, I don't get you. If you don't want your image on the Boards blog, ask for it to be removed. Simple as that.

    Hi Darragh,

    Personally speaking I'd be only delighted if someone deemed an image of mine good enough to appear on a blog, and then asked permission to use it. This is not the same as downloading a picture from a 3rd party location, say pix.ie or flickr.com and uploading it to the boards blog server, without seeking permission from the copyright owner.

    Can't you see the difference?


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    #138
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Darragh wrote: »
    Re Boards blog comment Hugh, I don't get you. If you don't want your image on the Boards blog, ask for it to be removed. Simple as that.

    People shouldn't have to ask. Use of it there without the expressed permission of the copyright owner is already a breach of copyright.


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    #139
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Covey wrote: »
    True, except now we're made aware of certian things that some of us weren't before.

    Like what?


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    #140
    DK32
    Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭DK32


    Daragh,

    Under the new terms, does it really only apply to images that I upload directly to boards servers directly? By this I mean, if I link from flickr or whatever source to share an image with people, I retain copyright of that image?

    Confused.com :)


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    #141
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Daragh,

    Well, I for one wasn't aware that you couldn't delete you image/image link and also that my image could be used on a blog :confused:


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    #142
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Hi Darragh,

    Personally speaking I'd be only delighted if someone deemed an image of mine good enough to appear on a blog, and then asked permission to use it. This is not the same as downloading a picture from a 3rd party location, say pix.ie or flickr.com and uploading it to the boards blog server, without seeking permission from the copyright owner.

    Can't you see the difference?

    Yes of course. Sorry, I thought I'd covered this. If we want to use your image on the blog, we'll ask you and attribute it. If you say no, then ok. If, then, at a later date, you want it taken down for whatever reason, just ask and we'll do that.


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    #143
    .Longshanks.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭.Longshanks.


    DK32 wrote: »
    Daragh,

    Under the new terms, does it really only apply to images that I upload directly to boards servers directly? By this I mean, if I link from flickr or whatever source to share an image with people, I retain copyright of that image?

    Confused.com :)

    ^ This needs to be clarified....crystal clear


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    #144
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    Covey wrote: »
    Daragh,

    Well, I for one wasn't aware that you couldn't delete you image/image link and also that my image could be used on a blog :confused:

    Have you ever had to delete an image? And is the blog thing - given we will ask permission - a big problem for you?


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    #145
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Darragh wrote: »
    Yes of course. Sorry, I thought I'd covered this. If we want to use your image on the blog, we'll ask you and attribute it. If you say no, then ok. If, then, at a later date, you want it taken down for whatever reason, just ask and we'll do that.

    Thanks Darragh,

    That's perfect!


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    #146
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    I should say also however, my above post is moot, if the permissions of the copyright owners were given prior to uploading the images to the boards servers.

    IIRC, I had asked and gotten permission.


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    #147
    Darragh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Darragh


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Thanks Darragh,

    That's perfect!

    Ok now how canI make everyone else agree to that?


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    #148
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    Darragh wrote: »
    Have you ever had to delete an image? And is the blog thing - given we will ask permission - a big problem for you?

    No, I've never had to delete an image ...... until now.

    No the blog isn't a big issue as long as permission is requested. Like others though, I got the impression from previous posts this wasn't always the case.


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    #149
    Nisio
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Nisio


    I didn't know that boards would download a file from a 3rd party website that was linked to on boards , resize it and rehost it on the blogs.boards.ie.

    I think I've picked that up right?


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    #150
    DaireQuinlan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭DaireQuinlan


    Paulw wrote: »
    People shouldn't have to ask. Use of it there without the expressed permission of the copyright owner is already a breach of copyright.

    welll, Actually, in terms of that pix.ie link at the very least, I think people obviously haven't read their pix.ie terms and conditions properly ...
    pix.ie T&C wrote:
    You acknowledge and agree that any Content contained in public postings, including any galleries that are not designated as private, will be accessible to the public and could be accessed, indexed, archived, linked to and republished by others including, without limitation, appearing on other web sites and in search engine results. Therefore, Pixie advise you to be careful about the nature of the Content you post. Pixie provides many security options and settings for your Content and Pixie strongly advises you to familiarise yourself with these features. Pixie will not be responsible or liable for any third party access to or use of the Content you post.


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    #151
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Darragh wrote: »
    Ok now how canI make everyone else agree to that?

    I think the confusion may have arisen from this (my bolding):
    Darragh wrote: »
    Where I don't feel I have to ask you is where I'm taking a screenshot of a page on Boards.ie for a presentation and your photo just happens to be on it, as posted, with others. Is that fair enough? Or would you prefer me to do that? Equally, if I was doing a blog post about what's on the photography forum - for example, here - http://blog.boards.ie/2009/07/17/thread-the-boards-3-round-up/ - I might not ask you, but I will link to the original thread in the forum and state your username. Again, if you don't want me to do that, tell me.

    Darragh

    If you ask for permission on a case by case basis, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.


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