big fine for Shannon RFC

bamboozle

a huge fine for an AIL club, having watched Clontarf being comically blown off the park by a referee in their AIL match in Cork Con last monthit seems that Con really are getting the rub of the green from Referees this season...nothing more frustrating at AIL level than poor refereeing.

Shannon RFC has been fined €25,000 and given a suspended six point deduction over the behaviour of their supporters at a match against Cork Constitution earlier this month.
An Irish Rugby Football Union Committee imposed the fine after it found that Shannon supporters verbally abused referee George Clancy after he awarded a late penalty for offside after initially giving a free-kick for a crooked feed into a scrum.
Con's Scott Deasy then kicked the penalty to take an 8-9 win in injury time.

Shannon supporters are understood to have entered the referee's dressing room after the match.
The six-point deduction will only apply if there is another breach this season.
The club has said it intends to appeal the decision.

wixfjord

I know nothing about this incident, but why does it not surprise me that its George Clancy involved? Have seen him reffing some atrotious games.

bonnieprince

hey the ref can only do so much, supporters acting like thugs now thats way out of line. its a shame to see this carry on.

wixfjord

bonnieprince wrote: »

hey the ref can only do so much, supporters acting like thugs now thats way out of line. its a shame to see this carry on.

As I say i know nothing about the incident at all. But imo Clancy is a poor ref, and poor refs tend to get into more controversy.

thomond2006

bamboozle wrote: »

Shannon supporters are understood to have entered the referee's dressing room after the match.

That's terrible.

Heroditas

bamboozle wrote: »

Shannon supporters are understood to have entered the referee's dressing room after the match.
The six-point deduction will only apply if there is another breach this season.
The club has said it intends to appeal the decision.

That's an utter disgrace.
The club should lose its international ticket allocation for a few matches. That will hit them even harder than any fine.

SARZY

bonnieprince wrote: »

hey the ref can only do so much, supporters acting like thugs now thats way out of line. its a shame to see this carry on.

Passion for the game and a keen sense of injustice.

That reminds me of something.

thomond2006

wixfjord wrote: »

I know nothing about this incident, but why does it not surprise me that its George Clancy involved? Have seen him reffing some atrotious games.

That gives supporters no excuse to invade his dressing room. :mad:

wixfjord

thomond2006 wrote: »

That gives supporters no excuse to invade his dressing room. :mad:

No it does not, I dont condone that sort of intimidation of referees ****e at all. What I am saying is that good referees make the right call and dont get embroiled in controversy. I havent a clue whether Clancy made the right call or not. What i do know is I dont rate him as a ref and its possible he didnt, meaning Shannon fans have a right to be somewhat angry. Going into a refs dressing room and intimidating him deserves punishment though no matter if the call was wrong.

stephen_n

We all get frustrated with refs but their is no excuse for this sort of action. 25K seems like a big fine though!

Four-Percent

bamboozle wrote: »

Shannon supporters are understood to have entered the referee's dressing room after the match.

:eek: Utter fools.

Tim Robbins

As a ref I think the IRFU should have done more. Banned the fans and deducted the club tickets and points.

Anyone who thinks they can do a better job than the ref should give it a go. It takes a huge amount of concentration constantly checking things and making split second decisions and ref abuse is creeping into the game more and more.

Refs have assessors who believe me are ultra picky on every single aspect of your game. They are the ones who are trained to critique refs which in inself is a complex task. And at Clancy's level he be getting assessed every week (or second week). He wouldn't reffing games at a high level if he wasn't getting high marks. Simple as.

Fans should be getting behind their teams (that's what they are good at) not abusing the ref.

Something tells me those fans probably couldn't even ref an U14 game!

shoutman

Shocking behaviour altogether. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and condone such an attack on any referee, that said, I think a €25k fine is an awful lot, especially in these times, with lower attendances etc, point deduction, banning of fans and ticket reductions would have been more appropriate imo.

I certainly hope that Shannon find out who the fans were and give them a hefty ban, although I would be surprised if this did happen.

Size=everything

Absolutely disgraceful carry on. Shannon RFC should be ashamed.

I do remember in the semi final of the Heineken Cup in Croke Park seeing a few thugs punching some young Leinster supporters in Hill 16 and remember saying to myself I hope rugby doesn't go the way of soccer. Inciddents like this are disheartening.

knockon

shoutman wrote: »

Shocking behaviour altogether. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and condone such an attack on any referee, that said, I think a €25k fine is an awful lot, especially in these times, with lower attendances etc, point deduction, banning of fans and ticket reductions would have been more appropriate imo.

I certainly hope that Shannon find out who the fans were and give them a hefty ban, although I would be surprised if this did happen.

It was the Club President who came into the dressing room - he shares the same surname as the Referee. What makes it all the more disturbing the Shannon President ia a former Munster Referee. he should have known better. It could be increased at the impending appeal.

OldJay

Tim Robbins wrote: »

As a ref I think the IRFU should have done more. Banned the fans and deducted the club tickets and points

The points are docked (6 pts) but suspended for 18 months.

[Jackass]

Once the integrity and respect for the officials is lost then the game is in serious serious disripute....

It's absolutely appauling to think a ref endured this sort of intimidation and that it was allowed to occur. The book should be thrown at any club who allows this to happen.

Risteard

[Jackass] wrote: »

Once the integrity and respect for the officials is lost then the game is in serious serious disripute....

It's absolutely appauling to think a ref endured this sort of intimidation and that it was allowed to occur. The book should be thrown at any club who allows this to happen.

Agreed. That's one of the standout things in rugby, the respect the officials get. This should be taken seriously and credit to the IRFU, they've dealt with it, though it could have been harsher IMO.

Respect for officials is paramount in this sport. Yes, Clancy is a professional ref and he might have had a poor game (I didn't see, so won't comment) but that does not give anyone an excuse to abuse him. Refs are central to the game, without them, no one plays, so if there were some lads at the match who were thinking about taking up the whistle but then saw that kind of carry on, what would they be thinking now?

thomond2006

I think if Shannon's Munster and Ireland ticket allocation was taken away for the rest of the season, it would serve as a good kick up the backside to the club.

I hope Shannon deal with this situation properly and ban those culpuble for life.

chupacabra

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think if Shannon's Munster and Ireland ticket allocation was taken away for the rest of the season, it would serve as a good kick up the backside to the club.

I hope Shannon deal with this situation properly and ban those culpuble for life.

Why punish all the fans for the actions of only a few?

Stev_o

I wonder how badly this will effect Shannons fiances. AIL clubs aren't bristling with money and im sure this will hit them hard.

thomond2006

chupacabra wrote: »

Why punish all the fans for the actions of only a few?

You've got to be harsh imo.

bonnieprince

wixfjord wrote: »

As I say i know nothing about the incident at all. But imo Clancy is a poor ref, and poor refs tend to get into more controversy.

I only know a little about the incident but in all my playing days, disrespecting the ref was a complete no-no, even in underage teams it was drilled into you. These guys give up their free time to officiate all levels and all types of weather.
If you think George Clancy is a poor ref, then get out and become a ref! Describing Clancy as a poor ref is ridiculous, he is an international ref now and if he was that Sh*t he would not have been promoted.
I get fed up with people blaming refs. its the lazy way of looking at all things rugby. They are human and nowhere near perfect.

thomond2006

bonnieprince wrote: »

I get fed up with people blaming refs. They are human and nowhere near perfect.

Hi Mr Blatter!




/sorry couldn't resist!

wixfjord

bonnieprince wrote: »

I only know a little about the incident but in all my playing days, disrespecting the ref was a complete no-no, even in underage teams it was drilled into you. These guys give up their free time to officiate all levels and all types of weather.
If you think George Clancy is a poor ref, then get out and become a ref! Describing Clancy as a poor ref is ridiculous, he is an international ref now and if he was that Sh*t he would not have been promoted.
I get fed up with people blaming refs. its the lazy way of looking at all things rugby. They are human and nowhere near perfect.

I dont know if you have a problem with me or something,it seems like you do! Im not goin to change my opinion by people taking the moral high ground and telling me to get out and become a ref ffs. I dont want to be a ref at all, but I do help to pay the refs fees, because I am a fan. I have said above that intimidating a referee is a no no in my book, but when they are wrong and have a poor performance they should be criticised, especially a high profile ref like Clancy. Do you think refs cant be criticised by others unless you are actually a ref yourself? Just because he is an international ref doesnt mean he is capable of same. To say you are fed up of people blaming refs is a cop out. They should be blamed if they have a bad game and make terrible decisions. Again, and for the third time, I dont condone what Shannon did at all at all, but a poor ref gets more controversy than other refs. Would this happen to Alan Rolland or Nigel Owens?

phog

wixfjord wrote: »

I dont condone what Shannon did at all at all, but a poor ref gets more controversy than other refs. Would this happen to Alan Rolland or Nigel Owens?

But like some players attract a lot of negative comments so too do refs, is that right? I'm not so sure, sometimes there seems to be a bandwagon of supporters out there just waiting for something to go wrong and kinda say there I told you.

I'm not a member but Shannon but it would be the club I support in the AIL, if what is rumoured happend then Shannon deserve their penalties, harsh it is but harsh it needs to be. The IRFU are caught between a rock and hard place too, if the fine is too costly it may have the effect of running one of the most successful clubs in the country, if it is too lenient with Shannon it will be shown as being weak to one of the "bigger" clubs.

wixfjord

phog wrote: »

But like some players attract a lot of negative comments so too do refs, is that right? I'm not so sure, sometimes there seems to be a bandwagon of supporters out there just waiting for something to go wrong and kinda say there I told you.

I dunno what your referring to here phog tbh, a bandwagon of supporters waiting for something to go wrong for a referee? In my opinion, and a view that is supported by most rugby fans, owens and rolland are two of the best refs in the game. They are respected and are seen in a game as little as possible. In my viewings of Clancy, he seems to want to be in control of the game, is hospitable to players, gets more decisions wrong than other refs, and isnt in any way as good a ref as Owens and Rolland for example. I mean players attractive negative comments because they are playing badly, why shouldnt refs? And even if what you say is true, about waiting to say I told you so then so be it, Ive always had an opinion of Clancy as a poor ref, and now this happened, so I have been somewhat vindicated havent I?!

OldJay

wixfjord wrote: »

Ive always had an opinion of Clancy as a poor ref, and now this happened, so I have been somewhat vindicated havent I?!

No, not in the slightest. You didn't see the game.

wixfjord

Justind wrote: »

No, not in the slightest. You didn't see the game.

Haha good old Justind with your never ending support for referees! Fair enough I cant say Im vindicated yet, but have you seen the game, and were the calls 100% correct? Btw nice selective posting! Do you agree with the rest of what Im saying leaving bias aside?

phog

wixfjord wrote: »

I dunno what your referring to here phog tbh, a bandwagon of supporters waiting for something to go wrong for a referee? In my opinion, and a view that is supported by most rugby fans, owens and rolland are two of the best refs in the game. They are respected and are seen in a game as little as possible. In my viewings of Clancy, he seems to want to be in control of the game, is hospitable to players, gets more decisions wrong than other refs, and isnt in any way as good a ref as Owens and Rolland for example. I mean players attractive negative comments because they are playing badly, why shouldnt refs? And even if what you say is true, about waiting to say I told you so then so be it, Ive always had an opinion of Clancy as a poor ref, and now this happened, so I have been somewhat vindicated havent I?!

While at a match have you ever thought a ref has got something wrong and then seen it on TV and realsied that he was right?

All refs get calls wrong during a game, they are human afterall, but usually they balance out over the course of a game. I shout at refs during a game, I hate to see certain refs officiating at games but never would I condone or excuse the behaviour that is said to have happened at the Shannon game.

OldJay

wixfjord wrote: »

Haha good old Justind with your never ending support for referees! Fair enough I cant say Im vindicated yet, but have you seen the game, and were the calls 100% correct? Btw nice selective posting! Do you agree with the rest of what Im saying leaving bias aside?

Nope, I don't.
Sorry.
Not being selective. Your mind is made up and I'm not going to waste your time by countering everything you say. I did pick you up on something that was wrong though.

To return to the subject though, it doesn't actually matter who the referee was or even how they reffed.

bonnieprince

wixfjord wrote: »

I dont know if you have a problem with me or something,it seems like you do! Im not goin to change my opinion by people taking the moral high ground and telling me to get out and become a ref ffs. I dont want to be a ref at all, but I do help to pay the refs fees, because I am a fan. I have said above that intimidating a referee is a no no in my book, but when they are wrong and have a poor performance they should be criticised, especially a high profile ref like Clancy. Do you think refs cant be criticised by others unless you are actually a ref yourself? Just because he is an international ref doesnt mean he is capable of same. To say you are fed up of people blaming refs is a cop out. They should be blamed if they have a bad game and make terrible decisions. Again, and for the third time, I dont condone what Shannon did at all at all, but a poor ref gets more controversy than other refs. Would this happen to Alan Rolland or Nigel Owens?

No problem with you wixfjord, I just have a huge difference of opinion so i don't where your picking up the out to get me vibes.
Does criticising allow people to approach a ref and give him what for? We are all adults and this is a game we are all involved in to some degree.
Clancy is on the international panel because he is deemed fit enough to do so, are you more of an expert? is there something your not telling me?
All ref's can make mistakes even Rolland and Owens (who imo is a munster supporter)
Cop out or not if you want a ref's scalp the go support some Premier League football team. Teams win games not Referee's.
I think it is highly commendable for any young person to become a rugby referee and give up their time to do so. Clancy like Fitzgibbon are both young and need time to perfect their games.
Thanks for your opinion Wixfjord but no thanks.

bamboozle

wixfjord wrote: »

I dont know if you have a problem with me or something,it seems like you do! Im not goin to change my opinion by people taking the moral high ground and telling me to get out and become a ref ffs. I dont want to be a ref at all, but I do help to pay the refs fees, because I am a fan. I have said above that intimidating a referee is a no no in my book, but when they are wrong and have a poor performance they should be criticised, especially a high profile ref like Clancy. Do you think refs cant be criticised by others unless you are actually a ref yourself? Just because he is an international ref doesnt mean he is capable of same. To say you are fed up of people blaming refs is a cop out. They should be blamed if they have a bad game and make terrible decisions. Again, and for the third time, I dont condone what Shannon did at all at all, but a poor ref gets more controversy than other refs. Would this happen to Alan Rolland or Nigel Owens?

For what its worth i go to an awful lot of AIL games and have seen Clancy in action in the AIL, he's poor beyond doubt, i've spoken to Shannon & Con lads who were at that game and they all agreed the decisions made deep into injury time by Clancy were outragous. However not in any way does this justify how he was treated thereafter.

The AIL has the potential to become really good under the new Division 1 format, however we need top class ref's,

OldJay

bamboozle wrote: »

The AIL has the potential to become really good under the new Division 1 format, however we need top class ref's,

If George Clancy is good enough for IRB panel selection, he's good enough for the AIB League.
If you want a view of how his game went, you should talk to somebody who was present and is a neutral ie. interest in neither club.
Again though, a ref's performance is irrelevant in this case.

bamboozle

Justind wrote: »

If George Clancy is good enough for IRB panel selection, he's good enough for the AIB League.
If you want a view of how his game went, you should talk to somebody who was present and is a neutral ie. interest in neither club.
Again though, a ref's performance is irrelevant in this case.

As i said i spoke with lads from Shannon and Con who were at the game. i also said what happened did not justify how he was treated afterwards.

phog

As a matter of interest was there a fine/sanction for Leinster when Simon McDowell was man-handled by Blaney (?) in one of ML games a few years back?

SARZY

It is without any question that poor referees in rugby are the cause of on-field violence and this has always been the case. Players who feel hard done by poor or biased referees have often responded by the game getting out of control. Many many instances from Junior through to International games.

Now this Ref is poor, of that there is no doubt and for whatever reason the R ugby autorities choose to ignore this problem. Its probably the old amateur attitude of 'Do as you are told and dire consequences await etc'.
It will get worse before a halt will have to be called.

Huge credit to the Shannon players for keeping the cool in these appalling circumstances and if you dont understand the actions of some supporters afterwards then you don't understand what made Shannon the premier club in Senior rugby in Ireland during the Revolutionary years leading to the present HC, ML and Slam.

Passion for the game, The Righting of old wrongs, The hatred of injustice etc.

Read Axel.

CatFromHue

thats rubbish!
so the ref deserved it

LightningBolt

If George Clancy is good enough for IRB panel selection, he's good enough for the AIB League.

JustinD, sometimes there's such a poor pool of candidates that it's possible someone is chosen as the best of a bad bunch. This isn't aimed directly at the referee in question but referees at all levels.

Even in the Eircom League there's referees who are on UEFA panels, these guys are probably the worst referees in the league for allowing a game to flow naturally.

There's people we all work with on an everyday level with professional and trade qualifications. Some are a hell of a lot better whilst some can be an absolute disgrace, just because Mr.A is a qualified carpenter doesn't automatically mean that his work is up to the same standard as Mr.B.

On the incident itself, foolish actions by the individual(s). A referee does a thankless job and shouldn't receive any abuse post game whatsoever.

wixfjord

Do the Clancy supporters still feel the same after his laughable performance in the Leinster Ulster game. If hes an international standard referee then god help us.

Risteard

The point is that it's irrelevent whether the referee is good or not, if he's not up to the required standard, then he shouldn't have been appointed.

There's no excuse for abusing a referee after a match, regardless of how poor he was.

danthefan

wixfjord wrote: »

Do the Clancy supporters still feel the same after his laughable performance in the Leinster Ulster game. If hes an international standard referee then god help us.

So you would be in favour of raiding his dressing room and going mental at him after games he takes charge of? If that's a rugby supporter these days then god help us.

I'm not a fan of Clancy but the Shannon supporters were 100% out of order.

Aidric

I had to laugh at Clancy telling the front rows to 'cool the jets'. He must have thought he was a bouncer at the wesley disco.

damnyanks

Are the people posting here the same people that invaded the changing room?

You can't do that full stop. It has no place in society never mind rugby. Any punishment is fully deserved.

Also makes Shannon look like a poorly supported club.

castie

damnyanks wrote: »

Are the people posting here the same people that invaded the changing room?

You can't do that full stop. It has no place in society never mind rugby. Any punishment is fully deserved.

Also makes Shannon look like a poorly supported club.

Thread has turned into more clancy bashing than supporting the behaviour I think.

old boy

you guys should see what the super league basketball refs get up to, then you would have no reason to complain.

wixfjord

Risteard wrote: »

The point is that it's irrelevent whether the referee is good or not, if he's not up to the required standard, then he shouldn't have been appointed.

There's no excuse for abusing a referee after a match, regardless of how poor he was.

danthefan wrote: »

So you would be in favour of raiding his dressing room and going mental at him after games he takes charge of? If that's a rugby supporter these days then god help us.

I'm not a fan of Clancy but the Shannon supporters were 100% out of order.

Read the rest of the thread lads ffs Ive said about three times that the fans were out of order. God help us is right.

CatFromHue

argh i shouldnt post but well its late and i am..... you know!!!
going crazy at the ref what does that achieve???

you get bad refs in evrything, to play on a team where my supporters/club mahabgement went after the ref like thtat id frankly feel let down!

phog

The Munster Senior cup match between Shannon & UCC has been cancelled, a game which Marcus Horan was to get some game time after his return from injury.

bonnieprince

here is some more info at Shannon RFC's dismal behaviour. http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Revealed-shocking-report-of-Limerick.5977040.jp

cgarvey

wixfjord wrote: »

Read the rest of the thread lads ffs

+1

Clancy didn't deserve that treatment, and Shannon will be rightly punished accordingly. However, to say he's a good referee is bordering on laughable. He's grand for the most part, but has all too often made some crazy, crazy decisions and crunch times. His ability to control the temper of a game is also questionable, IMO. Still, as everyone has said, this is not an excuse (by any stretch) for the events after the game.