Astra Alternator Problem. Steering Stiff

cormie

Hi,
After filling my tank today, I noticed the steering was a little stiff for a few seconds, thought I was imagining it. Then tonight I got in my car, drove about 1km and then the alternator light came on and the steering just seized, it was very stiff again and could only turn ever so slightly.

I looked up the manual and it didn't give much of an explanation and just said something about it not charging the battery. Turned engine on and off a few times but no luck. I only had a short bit left till I was home so just drove really slow.

I've done a little bit of googling and some have said it's just a loose wire

Has anyone experienced this and what was the cause, problem and solution? Am I looking at a high bill for sorting this I wonder?

Any feedback appreciated

Owen

If the alternator light came on, and the steering got stiff, your accessory/alternator belt is most likely worn, or not tensioned correctly. You should also see a rise in engine temp - be careful it doesn't overheat as you'll be looking at a head gasket too.

If your anyway mechanically inclined it can be done at home, a belt is only about 20 euro, it just takes time, and patience.

cascade35

Its also possible that the belt has come off or broken.

rex-x

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If the alternator light came on, and the steering got stiff, your accessory/alternator belt is most likely worn, or not tensioned correctly. You should also see a rise in engine temp - be careful it doesn't overheat as you'll be looking at a head gasket too.

If your anyway mechanically inclined it can be done at home, a belt is only about 20 euro, it just takes time, and patience.

Why in the worlds would the car overheat? the waterpump on an astra as on the majority of modern cars is driven by the timing belt?
But yes its probably a slipping belt, the cold can kill them off if they are worn

Mr Benevolent

OP, maybe you put too much Viagra in the tank.

Seriously though, Opels are know for steering column problems. What year is it, and was it easier to turn one way than the other? The loss of PAS wouldn't make the steering stiff at speed.

cormie

Thanks for the replies! It's a 2004 1.7 dti astra van. To be honest, it's too important for me to do a DIY on a mechanical problem. I don't know what I'm doing, I didn't even know what an alternator was and I certainly didn't know it had a belt

With regards the overheating, or anything else actually, would it be safe to drive about 20 miles to my mechanic? It's due a service soon anyway so I'd prefer to just leave it with him and get it all sorted at once

R.O.R

cormie wrote: »

With regards the overheating, or anything else actually, would it be safe to drive about 20 miles to my mechanic? It's due a service soon anyway so I'd prefer to just leave it with him and get it all sorted at once

It would be hard work without power steering, and probably a bit dangerous in the ice too. If the alternator isn't charging the battery you also run the risk of losing all power over the journey.

From my basic mechanical knowledge it does sound like the Fan Belt (think it's called) has either slipped off, gone loose, or broken. That usually runs off the engine and powers the Alternator and sometimes the power steering. I had an old Escort where the belt came loose and it stopped charging the battery - didn't have power steering so that was unaffected.

Open the bonnet and see if you can see the problem first. Belt usually goes on a pulley at the side of the engine. If you can see a loose belt, or a pulley that looks like it's missing something then at least you'll know that is the problem.

Do you have breakdown cover? They might come out for that....

cormie

I have breakdown cover alright Had a look at the engine last night but couldn't spot anything loose. Although I was more looking at the wires at the battery since it said about the battery not charging properly. The driver to the mechanic is a pretty straight drive but I guess if the AA will take it there for me that would be a better option.

Do you still think it would be a slipped belt if I felt it for a few seconds earlier in the day and then it was perfect again and only happened later for good?

R.O.R

cormie wrote: »

Do you still think it would be a slipped belt if I felt it for a few seconds earlier in the day and then it was perfect again and only happened later for good?

It might have been slipping, righted itself for a while then finally slipped off.

Good luck getting it seen to before the country closes down until 2010.

Owen

rex-x wrote: »

Why in the worlds would the car overheat? the waterpump on an astra as on the majority of modern cars is driven by the timing belt?

On my car when it went, the waterpump was disabled too. Why is it such a bad thing that I caution the OP that his car might overheat too?

milltown

rex-x wrote: »

on the majority of modern cars is driven by the timing belt?

Any examples? I can't think of any. Nor can I think why a manufacturer would design an engine that could lunch itself due to the failure of a relatively minor component like the water pump.

OP, hopefully it's just the belt but from your description of the steering going stiff previously, it's possible the power steering pump has packed up and that's what caused the belt to snap.

germanicus

milltown wrote: »

Any examples? I can't think of any. Nor can I think why a manufacturer would design an engine that could lunch itself due to the failure of a relatively minor component like the water pump.

many Vw's many ford's in fact a lot of modern cars

milltown

You seem to be right but it seems a risky idea to me. If only I could afford modern cars

Marlow

milltown wrote: »

Any examples? I can't think of any. Nor can I think why a manufacturer would design an engine that could lunch itself due to the failure of a relatively minor component like the water pump.

VW fanbelt doesn't drive the waterpump, most BMW however do. Can't make a statement on the Opel.

Some of the manufacturers stick a overheating switch in there, that cuts the engine out, other engines just die.

To the op, check the manual of your car for the comments on the alternator light. It usually states there, if you can drive the car with a faulty/missing fan-belt or not.

/M

Scruff

It might be something as simple as a fuse. I had a problem a couple of months back where the power steering went in my mk4 Astra and the ABS warning light was on on the dash board. Opel dealer told me it was probably the power steering and would cost 1k to fix :eek: Brought it to Almax (just off the walkinstown roundabout on the cromwellsfort road) who specialise in alternators because i didnt believe the opel dealer. 15 mins of checking and €10 later it was fixed by replacing the ABS fuse in the fuse box on the driver side of the cabin.
If it is the alternator your battery will die pretty soon and you wont be able to start the car, especially in this cold weather!

cormie

Thanks again for the replies. Had mechanic out today and he had a quick look at the Astra after doing a job on a transit and he said that the Astra isn't being charged from the battery, the voltage is only about 10 when it should be over 13, the belt is still fine and no fuses blown either. He mentioned something about the power steering being electrically controlled as a safety measure and that the problem with the alternator could be fixed by auto electrician and would probably have to be reconditioned, new brushes etc. I might check that Almax crowd out Would you have an exact location for them Scruff? Any chance you could pinpoint them on www.mygeoposition.com? Just hope I can make it to them with the bad steering!

lifer_sean

Astra has electro-mechannical power steering, ie the steering rack is hydraulic, but the hydraulic pump is electric and not driven off the alternator belt as in most cars. It could be possible that the car shuts down the power steering pump when engine not charging to save battery power (Opels used to shut down the heated rear window if not charging on older models, don't know if they still do this).

From a steering point of view it should be perfectly safe to drive without the power assist, just hard work ! The mechanical connection between you and the wheels is the same as before, it's just that the power ASSIST is not taking the strain off your arms.

Astra F (98-04) petrol 1.4 and 1.6 have water pump driven off timing belt. Water pump on the 1.7 DTi might be driven off altermator belt ... I have one in the workshop, will take a look later. I do know that water pump is not changed with the timing belt on these, so suspect it's not driven off the timing belt. The older 1.7TD engine had water pump driven off alternator belt.

cormie

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll just drive it to an auto electrician so and try get the alternator reconditioned. So are you saying the alternator charges the engine itself from the battery? Is the battery directly connected to the alternator which is then connected to the power steering thingy?

The steering is very stiff, I mean I've driven cars without power steering before and yeah, they require a bit more muscle, but the steering in the astra feels like it's not meant to turn when I try. Is this normal in a car with faulty power steering I wonder?

Any recommendation for somebody who could fix this close to Dun Laoghaire appreciated Need it working asap!

lifer_sean

Astra 1.7 diesel engine type Z17DTL (most likely what is fitted in 04 Astra van) has water pump driven off alternator belt ... confirmed.

Engine turns alternator which generates electricity. Electricity fed to battery which is a storage device. All other electrical items (incl power steering in your case) are powered from battery via switches etc.

re how heavy is your power steering, can't comment, surprised it's that heavy. Cars with power steering typically have "quicker" rack (less turns lock-to-lock) than non power steering, and also newer cars/vans have wider tyres, both of which could make the power steering feel heavier in power steering car without power assist working.

Scruff

the entrance to the yard is here. http://maps.google.com/?q=53.317002,-6.325944 its a lane between houses, big enough sign as well. It is tight enough but i managed it with my power steering gone.

Fishtits

lifer_sean wrote: »

Astra has electro-mechannical power steering, ie the steering rack is hydraulic, but the hydraulic pump is electric and not driven off the alternator belt as in most cars. It could be possible that the car shuts down the power steering pump when engine not charging to save battery power (Opels used to shut down the heated rear window if not charging on older models, don't know if they still do this).

Is this a different system than the column mounted motor type system on the Corsa?

OP, you don't mention the year of your car (or I was too dopey to notice) but the Astra alternators changed around '04, they look identical but the electronics are different - be careful if you are looking at a replacement from a scrappy.

Cheers

lifer_sean

Fishtits wrote: »

Is this a different system than the column mounted motor type system on the Corsa?

I havn't had the joy of doing anything with a Corsa power steering, but I assume from your description it's a motor mounted on the steering column (no hydraulics or fluids), similar to the setup in a Punto ?

Astra is different, has a hydraulic fluid resevoir mounted on LHS of the rack. There is a motor mounted on the rack which pumps the hydraulic fluid. Rack itself is a fairly conventional hydraulic poower steering rack-and-pinion setup. Rack can be split from the motor, but dealers sell as unit only, and only some scrappies will split. Not particularly relevant here, but the rack from an Astra fits a Zafira.

cormie

Thanks again for the replies everyone and for the link scruff, I gave them a ring but there was no answer. I wonder when Auto Elecs and the likes will be back to business? I need this sorted fairly lively and just hope it can be done as I wait and nothing has to be ordered!

life_sean, do you think it's ok to drive if the waterpump is powered from the alternator, therefore meaning it shouldn't work? Will only be from Dun Laoghaire area to somewhere in Dublin and hopefully it will be fixed while it's there.

Just to reconfirm, it's a 2004 Astra 1.7 DTI

Not sure what MK number it is though as I think they changed in 2004

lifer_sean

Water pump is turned via the same belt that turns the alternator. If the belt is ok (and the mechanic that looked at your van would have told you if it wasn't) then water pump will do it's stuff even if the internals of the alternator are kaput.

cormie

Yup, belt seems fine so that's good news just have to be a bit extra tough with the steering so. Thanks again for the help!

Fishtits

lifer_sean wrote: »

I havn't had the joy of doing anything with a Corsa power steering, but I assume from your description it's a motor mounted on the steering column (no hydraulics or fluids), similar to the setup in a Punto ?

Astra is different, has a hydraulic fluid resevoir mounted on LHS of the rack. There is a motor mounted on the rack which pumps the hydraulic fluid. Rack itself is a fairly conventional hydraulic poower steering rack-and-pinion setup. Rack can be split from the motor, but dealers sell as unit only, and only some scrappies will split. Not particularly relevant here, but the rack from an Astra fits a Zafira.

Corsa is a column mounted system.

Thanks for the Astra info.

cormie

Just tried to start the Astra to take it to Almax and it wouldn't start, I tried jump start it 3 times and it kept cutting out after a few minutes of being disconnected, I even had the cables attached for about 10 minutes on the last go. The rev counter froze when I'd turn the lights on and the ABS light is on now too The doors wouldn't even lock properly!

I rang the AA and they said they mightn't be out for about 3 hours as their so busy with the bad weather. I'd like to get this brought to Almax asap before they close. Do I just need to leave the jump leads connected for a good hour or so to charge it properly? Is there anything else I can do?

alias no.9

cormie wrote: »

Just tried to start the Astra to take it to Almax and it wouldn't start, I tried jump start it 3 times and it kept cutting out after a few minutes of being disconnected, I even had the cables attached for about 10 minutes on the last go. The rev counter froze when I'd turn the lights on and the ABS light is on now too The doors wouldn't even lock properly!

I rang the AA and they said they mightn't be out for about 3 hours as their so busy with the bad weather. I'd like to get this brought to Almax asap before they close. Do I just need to leave the jump leads connected for a good hour or so to charge it properly? Is there anything else I can do?

If it's starting and running but cutting out once the jump leads are disconnected, I'm guessing that the battery is flat as a pancake and the alternator is not providing any charge. Diesels use very little electrical power apart from the ECU, there's no spark like on a petrol engine, so make sure that nothing electrical is running and you might just make it but I suspect you may need to be towed.
Edit: Just dawned on me, the power steering needs electrical power, this will drain the battery and the ECU will lose power so the engine will cut out, you'll have to get it towed.

lifer_sean

cormie wrote: »

Just tried to start the Astra to take it to Almax and it wouldn't start, I tried jump start it 3 times and it kept cutting out after a few minutes of being disconnected, I even had the cables attached for about 10 minutes on the last go. The rev counter froze when I'd turn the lights on and the ABS light is on now too The doors wouldn't even lock properly!

I rang the AA and they said they mightn't be out for about 3 hours as their so busy with the bad weather. I'd like to get this brought to Almax asap before they close. Do I just need to leave the jump leads connected for a good hour or so to charge it properly? Is there anything else I can do?

Sounds like the battery is totally flat. You will need to either charge the battery fully, or get towed. A fully charged battery should get you a good distance as long as you use minimal electrical items ... no lights (other than indicators), no wipers, no heated rear window, no blower. You can charge it by either connecting a regular battery charger, or leaving another vehicle (running) hooked up to it for 30 mins to an hour via jumpleads.

Power steering isn't drawing power when not charging anyway (that's where you started from !) so don't worry about it.

milltown

milltown wrote: »

Any examples? I can't think of any. Nor can I think why a manufacturer would design an engine that could lunch itself due to the failure of a relatively minor component like the water pump.

Are you for real ? You are calling a water pump a minor component :eek: Water pump failure means no coolant pumped around, this mean engine temperature will rise.

There are quite a few engines where the timing belt drives the water pump
- Rover K series, used in Rovers, Lotus and Caterham
- The Nissan Micra
- Toyota 3SGTE engine found in MR2s and Celicas
- H23A engines in Preludes etc

They are not modern as such but that's all I can think of, it's been 10 years since I worked in car parts.

cormie

Ended up towing it with the Transit! The AA were going to be about 3 hours and I wanted to get it there before they closed so hopefully it'll be fixed tomorrow

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

GM68

I to have an 04 1.7 dti astra van (145,000 miles of trouble free driving until now) and had the same problem which happen in Sept 09 and at first thought it was battery issue so bought a new one which didn't work so had a mechanic look at it, my alternator was at fault so had it refurbished and everything worked fine until today when my steering went and the battery light is back on. Van is now booked in to have the alternator checked again,have also been told that the steering pumps on these can be problematic.will update post when I find out whats wrong.