Willie O'Dea is a Dangerous Man

imme

Willie O'Dea (current) Minister for Defence was forced recently to issue an apology to a Sinn Féin councillor in the High Court.
O'Dea apologised for defaming the councillor and making false comments.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1222/1224261109197.html

I put it to you all that Willie O'Dea is a dangerous man and is not fit to be a government minister.
I believe he should resign or be sacked.

Mena

imme wrote: »

I believe he should resign or be sacked.

You must be mistaken, that only happens in "other" countries...

imme

Mena wrote: »

You must be mistaken, that only happens in "other" countries...

where are these 'other' countries of which you speak?

mike kelly

imme wrote: »

Willie O'Dea (current) Minister for Defence was forced recently to issue an apology to a Sinn Féin councillor in the High Court.
O'Dea apologised for defaming the councillor and making false comments.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1222/1224261109197.html

I put it to you all that Willie O'Dea is a dangerous man and is not fit to be a government minister.
I believe he should resign or be sacked.

Fair play to him for speaking his mind. We need more like him in Government.

funnyname

Oh no he's not, oh then again.........

FlutterinBantam

imme wrote: »

Willie O'Dea (current) Minister for Defence was forced recently to issue an apology to a Sinn Féin councillor in the High Court.
O'Dea apologised for defaming the councillor and making false comments.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1222/1224261109197.html

I put it to you all that Willie O'Dea is a dangerous man and is not fit to be a government minister.
I believe he should resign or be sacked.

I put it to you that the case is closed and sorted.

There are plenty of people in the Dáil a lot more dangerous than O'Dea, and you wouldn't have to travel too far from Willie's constituency to find them.

I am no apologist for O'Dea but i put it to you that there are a lot more resigning issues in the Dáil that something like that;)

OldJay

Demanding a TD's resignation is all well and good if you voted in the last general election.
If not, you got the government you deserve and have relinquished your right to have a say in how this country is governed and who governs it.

mike kelly

I still don't see how defaming a Sinn Fein councillor could be considered reason for resigning.

OldJay

mike kelly wrote: »

I still don't see how defaming a Sinn Fein councillor could be considered reason for resigning.

Its not.

Hootanany

His tail is between his legs lying hound

Sleepy

What did he actually say about the councillor?

I can't imagine that anything Willie O' Dea could have said would have been more damaging to the guy's reputation than his membership of Sinn Fein tbh.

RedPlanet

mike kelly wrote: »

I still don't see how defaming a Sinn Fein councillor could be considered reason for resigning.

It was YOUR TAX EUROS at work, in defending Willie O'Dea while he was brought through the courts.
Is that a good way to spend your tax money?
That alone is reason enough for him to resign.
It was also your tax euros that paid the damages.

Then there's this tidbit:

The Minister apologised to Cllr Quinlivan both for making the statements and for denying having made them during High Court injunction proceedings brought by Cllr Quinlivan.

He lied to the High Court.

Nodin

mike kelly wrote: »

Fair play to him for speaking his mind. We need more like him in Government.

Why? is the legal profession in need of more business?

Poccington

Up until now he has done a reasonably good job as Minister for Defence and he's far from a dangerous man.

kmick

He basically made up some stuff about a Sinn fein councillor on the back of that Councillor questioning the number of civil servants (that should be doing something else) he has working for him. It was revenge dig. It not resigning matter but but shows the parochial and childish nature of Irish politics and is par for the course.

aurelius79

So in the High Court, Mr. O'Dea denied making remarks which he later admitted to making? Isn't this a simple case of pergury? I love the Irish "justice" system.

Sleepy

RedPlanet wrote: »

It was YOUR TAX EUROS at work, in defending Willie O'Dea while he was brought through the courts.
Is that a good way to spend your tax money?
That alone is reason enough for him to resign.
It was also your tax euros that paid the damages.

Then there's this tidbit:

He lied to the High Court.

The article says O' Dea paid? If he didn't, he certainly should have.

The Minister also paid damages and costs in respect of the proceedings, which Cllr Quinlivan brought in defence of his reputation.

mike kelly

aurelius79 wrote: »

So in the High Court, Mr. O'Dea denied making remarks which he later admitted to making? Isn't this a simple case of pergury? I love the Irish "justice" system.

It's not perjury if you are the accused. The accused person is allowed to lie all he wants. Perjury only applies to witnesses.

imme

mike kelly wrote: »

Fair play to him for speaking his mind. We need more like him in Government.

ok, fair enough speak his mind, but why didn't he back it up.
why did he make the comments, then deny making them in the High Court. Then have to make an apology in the Hugh Court and have to say he made false comments and that he defamed councillor. O'Dea is a barrister and should have known better. I think it's wrong for a government minister to deny to the High Court having said certain things and then to have to issue an apology before the High Court.

It brings to mind former Limerick TD (Independent & subsequently Labour Party) Jim Kemmy's comments about O'Dea.
Kemmy said in Limerick O'Dea was like Mighty Mouse, when he went to Dulin he was like Minnie Mouse.

Liam Byrne

I'm just stunned that an FF TD was actually taken to court over his actions........I'd have thought there would at least be an endless tribunal, after which he'd be deemed to be too ill, or too forgetful, no ?

imme

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm just stunned that an FF TD was actually taken to court over his actions........I'd have thought there would at least be an endless tribunal, after which he'd be deemed to be too ill, or too forgetful, no ?

what about the dancing Mattie McGrath *laughs*
you'd have to feel sorry for them really.:o

Arnold Layne

Poccington wrote: »

Up until now he has done a reasonably good job as Minister for Defence and he's far from a dangerous man.

As MOD what does he actually have to do? We are a supposedly neutral country with a small army and there is a ceasefire in NI. All I see him doing is having articles in the Sindo defending his corrupt cabal and shouting down critics during "debates" on RTE where it is evident that he has little or no knowledge on the subject matter.

imme

Arnold Layne wrote: »

As MOD what does he actually have to do? We are a supposedly neutral country with a small army and there is a ceasefire in NI. All I see him doing is having articles in the Sindo defending his corrupt cabal and shouting down critics during "debates" on RTE where it is evident that he has little or no knowledge on the subject matter.

the Minister for Defence has little to do and will have less to do with budget cuts. He gets to look all macho with guns or with our defence forces personnel overseas.
I wonder about his articles diatribes/party political puff pieces in the Sindo, who's he trying to impress/convert.

RedPlanet

mike kelly wrote: »

It's not perjury if you are the accused. The accused person is allowed to lie all he wants. Perjury only applies to witnesses.

Well your clearly no legal expert.
For the charge of perjury, the statments must be given under oath in a court.
It doesn't matter if your a witness or the accused, if you've sworn and oath to tell the truth, and then lie; you could be charged with perjury.

Regardless, the issue is not if the Minister should be charged with Perjury or not, it's the fact that he lied to the High Court.
That is behavior unbecoming of a Minister and that is why he should be forced out.

walshb

Willie has to be gone for this. I would be really amazed if he isn't. I know we don't have standards, but this is taking the piss. Will he survive this?

I am surprised there isn't a media frenzy about this

walshb

Poccington wrote: »

Up until now he has done a reasonably good job as Minister for Defence and he's far from a dangerous man.

So perjuring oneself in court isn't all that bad, Hey, maybe if you are a murderer or rapist or gangster, it could be understood, but the Minister of Defence? Sorry, this is just not acceptable or defensible. Jesus, have we really no standards in this country at all?

Erin Go Brath

walshb wrote: »

Willie has to be gone for this. I would be really amazed if he isn't. I know we don't have standards, but this is taking the piss. Will he survive this?

I am surprised there isn't a media frenzy about this

+1 FFers seem to be exempt from the law. Any other (civilised) country and he'd be shown the door. However, the vast majority of Judges in this country have been politically appointed by FF. FF bigwigs are virtually untouchable by our 'law' system. Ireland is probably the most corrupt country in Europe.

FTA69

Fair play to Mossy, I know the man himself and there's no reason he should have aspersions cast on his integrity from a Fianna Fáil TD of all people. Perhaps O'Dea will learn to shut his hole in future.

Moriarty

I guess since the sticks and stones have been decomissioned, words really do hurt now.

walshb

Moriarty wrote: »

I guess since the sticks and stones have been decomissioned, words really do hurt now.

And hurt more when they are blatant lies.

Bottle_of_Smoke

FTA69 wrote: »

Fair play to Mossy, I know the man himself and there's no reason he should have aspersions cast on his integrity from a Fianna Fáil TD of all people. Perhaps O'Dea will learn to shut his hole in future.

Do you know what O'Dea said about him? Article didn't say.

FTA69

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Do you know what O'Dea said about him? Article didn't say.

As far as I'm aware he suggested Mossy and his brother Nessan were brothel-keepers.

FlutterinBantam

Nessan Quinlivan?


Now where did I hear that name before;)

FTA69

Nessan is an ex-IRA POW who escaped from Brixton Prison in London. What has that got to do with Willie O'Dea saying Mossy Quinlavan is a brothel-keeper?

not bakunin

Willie and the make-believe brothel?

I don't know if a senior politician such as Willie O'Dea should be allowed to get off seemingly so lightly with perverting the course of justice and character defamation like this. I hope this isn't the last we hear of it...

FlutterinBantam

FTA69 wrote: »

Nessan is an ex-IRA POW who escaped from Brixton Prison in London. What has that got to do with Willie O'Dea saying Mossy Quinlavan is a brothel-keeper?

Impressive CV.!:eek:

Honourable man I'm sure , Honourable man:rolleyes:


Nothing to do with Willie:cool:

old boy

should it not be a requisit of an office holder to be at least truthful, or at least be economical with the truth, BUT not to be found to be telling porkies

Pride Fighter

Fianna Fail and lying go hand in hand. This does not surprise me.

walshb

old boy wrote: »

should it not be a requisit of an office holder to be at least truthful, or at least be economical with the truth, BUT not to be found to be telling porkies

Yes, but not in Ireland

José Alaninho

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Honourable man I'm sure , Honourable man:rolleyes:

Indeed he is. Your point?

José Alaninho

FTA69 wrote: »

As far as I'm aware he suggested Mossy and his brother Nessan were brothel-keepers.

Also accused Maurice of spending Northern Bank raid money :rolleyes: on his local election campaign.

FlutterinBantam

heh heh.....not a grain of truth in that surely:rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam

José Alaninho wrote: »

Indeed he is. Your point?

Statement horse... statement!

WTF

José Alaninho

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Statement horse... statement!

WTF

Of course it was...

watchingthepols

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I put it to you that the case is closed and sorted.

The Irish Daily does not seem to agree with you.

This is their editorial concerning Willie O'Dea giving false evidence to the High Court. The scans of the articles are below the text.


Irish Daily Mail....

It is remarkable enough for a cabinet minister to be forced to make a humiliating High Court apology and personal financial settlement. It is even more remarkable that this be given to a prominent Sinn Fein activist and long-term political enemy of the minister's

But what is most remarkable about yesterday's settlement of the defamation proceedings brought against Willie 'Dea by Cllr Maurice Quinlivan is not that the Defence Minister has finally admitted to being guilty of a particularly nasty smear campaign. No, it is the nature of Mr O'Dea's second apology.

The minister yesterday apologised, not just for his original comments about Cllr Quinlivan, but also for denying, in an earlier affidavit, that he had ever made such comments. In other words, he admitted that that affidavit - sworn under oath and subsequently used in court proceedings - was untrue.

Mr O'Dea is not only a long serving TD and member of the cabinet. He is also a trained barrister and former junior minister in the Department of Justice; as such, he will be all to aware how serious a crime perjury is. Yet it was only after a tape-recording of his original remarks was produced that Mr O'Dea withdrew that affidavit.

At the time, the minister said that that when he had denied making the defamatory remarks in his affidavit he had been mistaken. That may well be the case. But a man whose memory is so unreliable that he is capable of swearing a false affidavit in a High Court case is hardly the ideal candidate for high office.

The only possible alternative - that Mr O'Dea deliberately lied under oath - is too outrageous to contemplate . But there are only two possible explanations: either he is either hopelessly unreliable of that he is utterly untrustworthy.

Either way, he is patently unfit to server in cabinet. There is only one honourable course of action open to him - and that is to resign immediately.

Hillel

watchingthepols wrote: »

The Irish Daily does not seem to agree with you.

I'm not sure that I'd use that particular rag as backing for any position.

watchingthepols wrote: »

There is only one honourable course of action open to him - and that is to resign immediately.

Here I do agree with you. However, I won't be holding my breath.

imme

Hillel wrote: »

I'm not sure that I'd use that particular rag as backing for any position.

Here I do agree with you. However, I won't be holding my breath.

true and true

Erin Go Brath

O'Dea is now a proven perjurer. He has shown contempt for the institutions of the state, not the only FFer to do so either. Why should we believe anything he says from now forward or trust him to do any dealings on behalf of the country. The office he holds is tainted and he must go.

FlutterinBantam

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

O'Dea is now a proven perjurer. He has shown contempt for the institutions of the state, not the only FFer to do so either. Why should we believe anything he says from now forward or trust him to do any dealings on behalf of the country. The office he holds is tainted and he must go.

So Mairtín should go as well based on those assumptions??

walshb

He'll ride this storm out just like the rest; once they have the backing of the gang, they are untouchable. If ever there was a resigning case, this is it.

Erin Go Brath

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

So Mairtín should go as well based on those assumptions??

If any Government minister perjures themselves in court their position should no longer be tenable. This applies to all! Otherwise the whole system is a farce.