"A Kiss is Not a Contract" discussion on consent.

Nevyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSlPoQm2XY

A kiss is not a contract
But it's very nice
Mmmmm, very nice
Just because you've been exploring my
mouth
Doesn't mean you get to take an
expedition further south
No.
A kiss is not a contract,

As hit and miss and scatter shot as sex and sexual education can be in schools
( some have none, some have a little, some have wonderful amount it seems)
not a lot if any time is spent on consent, this seems to something which time and again that people have difficulty with, would discussions on consent
in secondary school have made a difference to you?
Would they empowered you to say no or to have clearer better conversations about what you wanted to do with someone?
or how far you felt comfortable going know that more consent would have been needed as explorations progressed?

Sinall

I did most of my secondary schooling in the UK and 2 years of it here. In the UK there was a big emphasis on the right to say no and not doing anything that you weren't 100%comfortable with. These classes would definitely have empowered me to say no when I wasn't happy with the direction things were taking. Particularly in my teens when you are so unsure of yourself anyway! In the two years I was in school here in Ireland there was no mention of sex education/contraception/consent discussions etc.

Personally I think the issue of consent should be discussed in secondary school. I think both sexes would benefit from it. If it is handled/overseen properly by the teacher I think it would be very informative.

Warfi

Thaedydal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSlPoQm2XY

As hit and miss and scatter shot as sex and sexual education can be in schools
( some have none, some have a little, some have wonderfull ammount it seems)
not a lot if any time is spent on consent, this seems to something which time and again that people have difficulty with, would discussions on consent
in secondary school have made a difference to you?
Would they empowered you to say no or to have clearer better conversations about what you wanted to do with someone?
or how far you felt comfortable going know that more consent would have been needed as explorations progressed?

Talking about the issue of consent is always a good thing, but I don't think the school is the best place to do it. I just don't think it would be viable. As a primary school teacher, I always look at how real life experiences can be brought into the classroom. Part of the job though is to be aware of the pitfalls that this might bring. I'd imagine a secondary school teacher would be worried about a consent discussion escalating into a witch hunt type of discussion, with men being named and shamed. Another pitfall would be trying to explain the basics of self-esteem, relationship rules (which are vague in nature anyway) and awareness of self and others in what realistically would be a three/four hour discussion spread out over three or four weeks. Sometimes, schools getting involved in this type of discussion only serves to muddy the waters, and create confusion (due to time and curriculum constraints).

Approaching the issue of consent needs careful planning, and also requires the listener to be the right age and in the right frame of mind to understand the issues of consent. Not everyone in a class is going to be able to take in what the teacher's trying to say. I think it's something that needs to be addressed on a person by person basis, as it is a hugely important issue and needs careful consideration.

Nevyn

Ideally sex ed and the issue of consent would be explained by parents but we don't live in an ideal world and to make sure there is a certain standard of education is why we have schools in the first place.

Other countries such as the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Australia ( which has an exam in schools on sex ed issues ) have such programs and they are inbuilt to the curriculum and as a result sex is not as much as a taboo and people can talk about it subjectively and there is not the same level of embarrassment or having it become personal when a teacher is talking about sex ed and consent.

I do think it is possible to have a constructive discussion about consent with young adult with out it turning into a witch hunt.

Warfi

Sinall wrote: »

I did most of my secondary schooling in the UK and 2 years of it here. In the UK there was a big emphasis on the right to say no and not doing anything that you weren't 100%comfortable with. These classes would definitely have empowered me to say no when I wasn't happy with the direction things were taking. Particularly in my teens when you are so unsure of yourself anyway! In the two years I was in school here in Ireland there was no mention of sex education/contraception/consent discussions etc.

Personally I think the issue of consent should be discussed in secondary school. I think both sexes would benefit from it. If it is handled/overseen properly by the teacher I think it would be very informative.

Hey Sinall, you don't happen to know how long consent discussion have being going on in UK secondary schools do you? It's interesting to see that it seems to work in the UK.

Warfi

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ideally sex ed and the issue of consent would be explained by parents but we don't live in an ideal world and to make sure there is a certain standard of education is why we have schools in the first place.

Other countries such as the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Australia ( which has an exam in schools on sex ed issues ) have such programs and they are inbuilt to the curriculum and as a result sex is not as much as a taboo and people can talk about it subjectively and there is not the same level of embarrassment or having it become personal when a teacher is talking about sex ed and consent.

I do think it is possible to have a constructive discussion about consent with young adult with out it turning into a witch hunt.

I know, I was just trying to put myself into the shoes of an Irish secondary school teacher.

It's good to see that consent issues are being discussed in schools in other countries and it's working. I'm not aware of any research being undertaken to see if it would be viable here in Ireland. Maybe some Iirsh secondary teachers already touch on the issue of consent in sex ed or SPHE lessons. However I think more training and an overhaul of the current curriculum would be necessary to ensure that the topic is given the time and resources necessary to teach it. Otherwise we would just be going down the hit and miss route again.

Nevyn

We need a national program to cover the whole topic comprehensively or to have it contracted out so that someone comes in to do workshops on the issues and spare the teachers and students blushes.

Sinall

Warfi wrote: »

Hey Sinall, you don't happen to know how long consent discussion have being going on in UK secondary schools do you? It's interesting to see that it seems to work in the UK.

I don't, actually. I am 28 now and would have had classes featuring these types of discussion from age 11 approx (which is the age you start secondary school over there). I think it was part of the curriculum and there were a lot of resources and support available to the teachers. The discussions were geared towards consent for both sexes and highlighted that both boys and girls should not feel pressured into any type of sexual activity.

It was handled in a way that was very matter-of-fact, there was no embarrassment or awkwardness. There were also teaching materials such as videos/stories etc which would have encouraged the class to discuss this. I'm sure it can be hard to get a discussion going at times! I think they started it young enough so that it wasn't a big deal and we weren't embarrassed when these things started becoming more relevant. I definitely came away with the opinion that I had the right to say no and never let myself be pressured/manipulated into anything.

Das Kitty

I know my friends kids do some sort of hygiene / stay safe class in primary school that broaches subjects like sexual touching. It's not so much about consent but to highlight that this kind of thing is wrong when carried out by an adult or older child.

My Mam was very good at letting me know that I should say no to anything I was uncomfortable with and that when I had sex or took part in various acts it was to be on my terms. Only once has a guy not heeded the "No" and he ended up with a pair of bruised b*llocks for his trouble (still feel icky thinking about it 13 years later).

A friend of mine was raped soon after that, to this day she doesn't view it as that, I don't know if it's her way of dealing with it or what but she blames herself for taking the lift home. She said No and Stop and physically fought with the guy. We were only 17 and he was her boyfriend's older brother. She actually even made a point of being friendly with him afterwards so she wouldn't feel so rotten.

I do think it needs to be something that everyone takes for granted: No means No regardless.

WindSock

Jesus, I hope the system has changed since I were a lass. Doubt it has though.

My sex ed was a crappy video that explained nothing in 6th class. It only showed the inside of a womb. I can barely remember it.

Then only because I chose Science as a module in 2nd year did we have a light dusting over the pictures in our book in Biology class. Nothing more since, maybe something in Home Ec. And certainly no discussion on it regarding consent. I really think a consent discussion would have been extremely beneficial to everyone. Half the class were up the duff by 4th year...

po0k

"common sense"

eviltwin

I did sex ed in my all girls school and consent was a big part of it but we had a girl in our year who had been raped and maybe thats what prompted its inclusion

I do know now the sex ed my daughter is getting is great but even though she's in a mixed school consent isnt part of what they discuss.

I've always been very open about sex with her and believe sex ed should be done in the home with school as a back up but I've never even thought about the whole issue of consent so fair play for putting up the thread Thaedydal.

Its an important issue and one I have totally overlooked so I'll be making sure we have a talk about it thats for sure

Nevyn

Common sense is unfortunately not that common and we often see sooo many threads about mixed signals on several forums on boards.

And I think it's important that young girls know not to force themselves on young lads either, that boys/ young men have the right to say no and if someone says they aren't interested or indicated they are not that is not an excuse to grinding up against to get a rise out of them so they can feel better about how attractive they are.

Just because the are male doesn't mean they don't have preferences and standards and will consent just cos they are male.

WindSock

po0k wrote: »

"common sense"

Common sense is the least common of all senses...Especially among young teens!

ToniTuddle

Personally consent is something that seriously needs more highlighting.

Some use the excuse "oh but they didn't really mean no, they were playing hard to get".

When someone says no repeatedly then that should give you a damn clue.

As I've said before the Sex Education in this country needs sorting out once and for all.

SheRa

I think that this would be a excellent idea in Irish schools, but honestly I cant see it happening as I think that the Irish education system is too conservative and religious in its ethos.