Antipsychiatric revolution

SLUSK

We need an anti psychiatric revolution in this world. In to many countries are you allowed to lock up people in homes against their will even though they haven't commited any crimes.

The cost of the taxpayers for psychiatric drugs which have many serious side effects are going through the roof. Many psychiatric drugs are known to cause aggression in people who are prescribed this "medication".

I demand that no one should be allowed to be taken into psychiatric care without a court decision.

I also demand that government stop subsidizing psychiatric drugs. In many countries marijuana is illegal yet governments subsidizes amphetamine like drugs that are known to cause aggression.

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

We need an anti psychiatric revolution in this world. In to many countries are you allowed to lock up people in homes against their will even though they haven't commited any crimes.

The cost of the taxpayers for psychiatric drugs which have many serious side effects are going through the roof. Many psychiatric drugs are known to cause aggression in people who are prescribed this "medication".

I demand that no one should be allowed to be taken into psychiatric care without a court decision.

I also demand that government stop subsidizing psychiatric drugs. In many countries marijuana is illegal yet governments subsidizes amphetamine like drugs that are known to cause aggression.

I have bi-polar and BPD, many of my meds have cause side effects, but without them I cannot survive.

What i would say is better supervision when prescribing new meds to people or in my case when i have to take so many different ones.

i have to say i have never been locked up against my will, in fact there have been times i think the system as fail me and my family for not locking me up.

SLUSK

How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

By luck and luck alone.

Destroyed a lot of life's and tried to end mine endless times, been in comas and pretty much taken for dead, that is how i survived.

Took to drugs and life on the streets cause i could not remember what day it was or who i was.

It wasn't a life and i deserve better

Kevster

Your post repulses me SLUSK, I have to admit. You have evidently not had much success in the area of psychiatry, and I can only assume that these ignorant views of yours are based solely on your bad experiences. There are countless positive experiences, however, but you'll hear less about them because when someone 'recovers', they tend not report it (and instead just get on with their lives). On the other hand, yo'ull certainly hear a lot from people who have had bad experiences but, I must admit, their views are not as ignorant as yours.

Kevin

Pushtrak

SLUSK wrote: »

I also demand that government stop subsidizing psychiatric drugs. In many countries marijuana is illegal yet governments subsidizes amphetamine like drugs that are known to cause aggression.

Did you know that people with ADHD actually get the opposite effect from amphetamines than those without would get? As in, a person with ADHD, or even ADD can actually be calmed down by it, as if they had just smoked a joint. Doesn't come across like you do.

SLUSK

In my view psychiatry is nothing but a pseudoscience that generates huge profits to drug companies who try to label everyone mentally ill. Forget about those drugs causing myriads of real problems like for instance Zoloft and excessive weight gain.

Kevster

SLUSK wrote: »

In my view psychiatry is nothing but a pseudoscience that generates huge profits to drug companies who try to label everyone mentally ill. Forget about those drugs causing myriads of real problems like for instance Zoloft and excessive weight gain.

Everything in life is about money, my dear friend, but there are a lot of positive things psychiatry brings too.

SLUSK

Pushtrak wrote: »

Did you know that people with ADHD actually get the opposite effect from amphetamines than those without would get? As in, a person with ADHD, or even ADD can actually be calmed down by it, as if they had just smoked a joint. Doesn't come across like you do.

Then why is aggression listed as a side effect on a drug like Concerta?

SLUSK

Kevster wrote: »

Everything in life is about money, my dear friend, but there are a lot of positive things psychiatry brings too.

Positive things like eugenics that psychiatry gave us?

Pushtrak

SLUSK wrote: »

Then why is aggression listed as a side effect on a drug like Concerta?

Concerta is for the treatment of ADHD. I would like to see it cited that this is a possible outcome for a person with ADHD. I'm sure you'll find it isn't the case, or I missed something pretty damn important at that seminar about 2 months back.

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

Then why is aggression listed as a side effect on a drug like Concerta?

All medications have side effects, do you want to stop all medications?

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

I see you didn't have anything to say to my reply to your question. Was it not to your liking, or do you think people like me don't deserve the money being spend on them?

SLUSK

Pushtrak wrote: »

Concerta is for the treatment of ADHD. I would like to see it cited that this is a possible outcome for a person with ADHD. I'm sure you'll find it isn't the case, or I missed something pretty damn important at that seminar about 2 months back.

http://www.fass.se contains a list of all meds that can be legally prescribed in Sweden. When you do a search here on Concerta, aggression is listed as a possible side effects of this drug. Since you probably do not understand Swedish this link is of no use to you. But if you type in Concerta aggression in google you will find out that I am right.

The_Minister

SLUSK wrote: »

Positive things like eugenics that psychiatry gave us?

Eh, what?

Selective breeding in agriculture gave us eugenics, combined with race theory.
How does psychiatry come into it?

The_Minister

Pushtrak wrote: »

Concerta is for the treatment of ADHD. I would like to see it cited that this is a possible outcome for a person with ADHD. I'm sure you'll find it isn't the case, or I missed something pretty damn important at that seminar about 2 months back.

For all we know it could be a side-effect found in 0.000005% of patients.


I am puzzled however, why you think that a drug causing aggression would be given to children who are hyperactive. Your own point acknowledges that behaviour can be affected by drugs, so why does the idea of using drugs to alter behaviour/mind perplex you?

tudlytops

The_Minister wrote: »

For all we know it could be a side-effect found in 0.000005% of patients.


I am puzzled however, why you think that a drug causing aggression would be given to children who are hyperactive. Your own point acknowledges that behaviour can be affected by drugs, so why does the idea of using drugs to alter behaviour/mind perplex you?

he is only looking at the bad side of it, not looking at the life's it saves.

there are no miraculous cures

SLUSK

The_Minister wrote: »

For all we know it could be a side-effect found in 0.000005% of patients.


I am puzzled however, why you think that a drug causing aggression would be given to children who are hyperactive. Your own point acknowledges that behaviour can be affected by drugs, so why does the idea of using drugs to alter behaviour/mind perplex you?

It truly defies logic why they would give them this drug. But for all I know, every tough thing in life mentally has the last 20-30 years been labelled a mental illness and it just so happens that they have a pill for this...

Stimulants like amphetamine are known to cause aggression, why would you be surprised that a stimulant like Concerta can cause aggression?

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

It truly defies logic why they would give them this drug. But for all I know, every tough thing in life mentally has the last 20-30 years been labelled a mental illness and it just so happens that they have a pill for this...

Stimulants like amphetamine are known to cause aggression, why would you be surprised that a stimulant like Concerta can cause aggression?

My grand father died because he was bi-polar and he was just told to get on with life, they did not know what it was.

it wasn't until later when my mum developed depression that his doctors notes were studied and what was wrong with him come to light.

I know doctors are to quick, far to quick to prescribe drugs, but in some cases they are needed.

mental illnesses aren't new, it's just that years ago people were locked up and that was it, out of sigh out of mind.

Byron85

SLUSK wrote: »

It truly defies logic why they would give them this drug. But for all I know, every tough thing in life mentally has the last 20-30 years been labelled a mental illness and it just so happens that they have a pill for this...

Stimulants like amphetamine are known to cause aggression, why would you be surprised that a stimulant like Concerta can cause aggression?

You obviously have a rather limited or non existent knowledge of brain chemistry and neurology in general. You are not in a position to make comments such as the above when you obviously don't understand how these things work.

Also going by your replies and posts in other threads, it is obvious that you are either a Scientologist, a member of the CCHR, both or are simply influenced by them.

Kalashnikov_Kid

SLUSK wrote: »

I demand that no one should be allowed to be taken into psychiatric care without a court decision.

I'm sorry but that is an appaling attitude. From your subsequent posts it is obvious that you have little or no personal or first-hand experience of mental health issues. It is an illness and many of the symptoms are beyond the control of the person. An irrational mind can do many strange and regrettable things - surely you can recognise this. Flick through your history books if you don't believe me.

In-house psychiatric care is a last-resort that saves countless lives and is by no means ever seen as a long-term solution in itself. Yet you think someone with a wig and no professional medical expertise should have the ultimate say...

So, what's your alternative then? Actually, don't bother answering that one - you seem to deny that mental illness actually exists....

tudlytops

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is an appaling attitude. From your subsequent posts it is obvious that you have little or no personal or first-hand experience of mental health issues. It is an illness and many of the symptoms are beyond the control of the person. An irrational mind can do many strange and regrettable things - surely you can recognise this. Flick through your history books if you don't believe me.

In-house psychiatric care is a last-resort that saves countless lives and is by no means ever seen as a long-term solution in itself. Yet you think someone with a wig and no professional medical expertise should have the ultimate say...

So, what's your alternative then? Actually, don't bother answering that one - you seem to deny that mental illness actually exists....

Thank you for your reply.

So many people put people like me and others with other mental illnesses down, its nice to see someone having a kind word.

It is indeed very hard to live with a mental illness and if drugs and being hospitalized is what it takes to save a life and spare the pain to so nanny others then that is what as to be done.

masteroftherealm

Im guessing the OP is a scientologist as this is their general tact and opinion.

SLUSK

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

You obviously have a rather limited or non existent knowledge of brain chemistry and neurology in general. You are not in a position to make comments such as the above when you obviously don't understand how these things work.

Also going by your replies and posts in other threads, it is obvious that you are either a Scientologist, a member of the CCHR, both or are simply influenced by them.

Why don't you go to the Swedish medical community and tell them that Concerta does not have aggression as a known side effect... They will laugh at you. It is listed as a possible side effect on the label on the package ffs. I know you are not allowed to give medical advice here but I myself would never trust the opinion of someone I consider to be a quack.

I myself have no affiliation with Scientology. I don't know any Scientologists. I find myself mostly influenced by Thomas Szasz. Unfortunately the anti psychiatry movement has found itself hijacked by Scientology.

Byron85

SLUSK wrote: »

Why don't you go to the Swedish medical community and tell them that Concerta does not have aggression as a known side effect... They will laugh at you. It is listed as a possible side effect on the label on the package ffs. I know you are not allowed to give medical advice here but I myself would never trust the opinion of someone I consider to be a quack.

I myself have no affiliation with Scientology. I don't know any Scientologists. I find myself mostly influenced by Thomas Szasz. Unfortunately the anti psychiatry movement has found itself hijacked by Scientology.

He co-founded the CCHR. Enough said.

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

I myself have no affiliation with Scientology. I don't know any Scientologists. I find myself mostly influenced by Thomas Szasz. Unfortunately the anti psychiatry movement has found itself hijacked by Scientology.

What exacly is your experience in psychiatry?

You have to have some sort of experience in order to be somewhat qualified to comment?

SLUSK

tudlytops wrote: »

What exacly is your experience in psychiatry?

You have to have some sort of experience in order to be somewhat qualified to comment?

I can just check the numbers. The number of people who are on psychatric drugs have exploded the last 20 years? Is everyone mentally ill all of the sudden. Extreme over-prescription should be obvious to anyone who is not blind.

eth0_

SLUSK wrote: »

I can just check the numbers. The number of people who are on psychatric drugs have exploded the last 20 years? Is everyone mentally ill all of the sudden. Extreme over-prescription should be obvious to anyone who is not blind.

By your logic (that you've twisted for your own agenda), there's been a sudden explosion of cancer, too.

Mental illness cases have not "exploded". There is simply better diagnostic procedures, better drugs, better therapies that enable us to help people who need it.

As for bringing people to court before sectioning....:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen someone in a state of extreme psychosis? Do you really think they should wait for weeks for a court date, in a state of extreme fear and paranoia, likely attempting suicide or violence against others?

Here's an example and i'd like you to tell me if you honestly think sectioning this person was "A BAD IDEA":

A friend of mine has schizophrenia. The incident that caused his diagnosis was this: He had been drinking heavily one night (something known to bring on psychosis in those susceptible). He had feelings of religious persecution for some time. Someone said something to him in the pub that caused him to flee, running about 10 miles back to his home, where he constructed a makeshift crucifix.

He nailed his hand to the crucifix and obviously was unable to finish the job himself, so he went next door to his friend in a wild psychotic state, banging on the door until he let him in, where he began pleading his friend to crucify him.

Now, Slusk.

How would YOU react? What would be the kind thing to do in this case?

I am interested to know.

tudlytops

SLUSK wrote: »

I can just check the numbers. The number of people who are on psychatric drugs have exploded the last 20 years? Is everyone mentally ill all of the sudden. Extreme over-prescription should be obvious to anyone who is not blind.

so you check out nr and you all educated.

20 years ago people were locked away and forgotten, do you think that was better?

Thanks to those evil drugs I have been able to raise a family, keep a job and enjoy life, 20 years ago I would have been locked away.

Sure drugs have side effects and some doctors prescribe them too fast but for some its the only way, and trust me I have tried the alternative therapies, they don't work on there own

I speak from my own experience not from numbers on a peace of paper.

tudlytops

eth0_ wrote: »

By your logic (that you've twisted for your own agenda), there's been a sudden explosion of cancer, too.

Mental illness cases have not "exploded". There is simply better diagnostic procedures, better drugs, better therapies that enable us to help people who need it.

As for bringing people to court before sectioning....:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen someone in a state of extreme psychosis? Do you really think they should wait for weeks for a court date, in a state of extreme fear and paranoia, likely attempting suicide or violence against others?

Here's an example and i'd like you to tell me if you honestly think sectioning this person was "A BAD IDEA":

A friend of mine has schizophrenia. The incident that caused his diagnosis was this: He had been drinking heavily one night (something known to bring on psychosis in those susceptible). He had feelings of religious persecution for some time. Someone said something to him in the pub that caused him to flee, running about 10 miles back to his home, where he constructed a makeshift crucifix.

He nailed his hand to the crucifix and obviously was unable to finish the job himself, so he went next door to his friend in a wild psychotic state, banging on the door until he let him in, where he began pleading his friend to crucify him.

Now, Slusk.

How would YOU react? What would be the kind thing to do in this case?

I am interested to know.

I think he's had enough, his going to email CCHR and wait to see how to reply to your question.

I am sure CCHR will no dough say that there is no such thing as psychosis, that, that is cause from some form of stomach bug or something

nesf

tudlytops wrote: »

I have bi-polar and BPD, many of my meds have cause side effects, but without them I cannot survive.

What i would say is better supervision when prescribing new meds to people or in my case when i have to take so many different ones.

i have to say i have never been locked up against my will, in fact there have been times i think the system as fail me and my family for not locking me up.

Precisely. I have bipolar and without meds my life would be far far worse and probably shortened considerably due to the very high suicide risk of being unmedicated with bipolar. Medication has brought greater stability to my life and improved my quality of life very substantially. Without it I would be lost.

nesf

SLUSK wrote: »

How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

From my family history, chronic alcoholism while being plagued by psychotic symptoms seemed to be the way people ended up before the condition was first diagnosed and treated in my family. Money lost in large amounts to gambling, mania fueled ill advised business ventures and manic shopping expeditions were also commonplace. Harder drug addiction was also present.

So in short: miserable lives with alcohol as a crutch to get you through it if you were lucky, hard drug addiction and/or early death due to your addictions if you weren't.

Overheal

SLUSK wrote: »

We need an anti psychiatric revolution in this world. In to many countries are you allowed to lock up people in homes against their will even though they haven't commited any crimes.

The cost of the taxpayers for psychiatric drugs which have many serious side effects are going through the roof. Many psychiatric drugs are known to cause aggression in people who are prescribed this "medication".

I demand that no one should be allowed to be taken into psychiatric care without a court decision.

I also demand that government stop subsidizing psychiatric drugs. In many countries marijuana is illegal yet governments subsidizes amphetamine like drugs that are known to cause aggression.

I would direct you to the Florida Baker Act for a start. And if you ask me the law didnt have enough teeth when it let my aunt out of care 3 times in less than a month after she'd gone from Loopy to Psychotic to finally driving in the middle of the road, yelling at cops in her pyjamas kind of Danger to Self and Others kind of crazy.

So yeah, I can't support your idea.

SLUSK

A religious person who believes in any kind of god is obviously suffering from hallucinations... When you talk to god you're considered religious(prayer), when god is talking back... you're schizophrenic...

SLUSK

eth0_ wrote: »

By your logic (that you've twisted for your own agenda), there's been a sudden explosion of cancer, too.

Mental illness cases have not "exploded". There is simply better diagnostic procedures, better drugs, better therapies that enable us to help people who need it.

As for bringing people to court before sectioning....:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen someone in a state of extreme psychosis? Do you really think they should wait for weeks for a court date, in a state of extreme fear and paranoia, likely attempting suicide or violence against others?

Here's an example and i'd like you to tell me if you honestly think sectioning this person was "A BAD IDEA":

A friend of mine has schizophrenia. The incident that caused his diagnosis was this: He had been drinking heavily one night (something known to bring on psychosis in those susceptible). He had feelings of religious persecution for some time. Someone said something to him in the pub that caused him to flee, running about 10 miles back to his home, where he constructed a makeshift crucifix.

He nailed his hand to the crucifix and obviously was unable to finish the job himself, so he went next door to his friend in a wild psychotic state, banging on the door until he let him in, where he began pleading his friend to crucify him.

Now, Slusk.

How would YOU react? What would be the kind thing to do in this case?

I am interested to know.

People who are drunk can act in a very strange way. People who are drunk have been known to do very strange things, are all these drunk people who do strange things mentally ill?

Is your friend also addicted to illegal drugs perhaps? Did he perhaps also drink alcohol and take psychiatric drugs at the same time?

humanji

SLUSK wrote: »

People who are drunk can act in a very strange way. People who are drunk have been known to do very strange things, are all these drunk people who do strange things mentally ill?

Is your friend also addicted to illegal drugs perhaps? Did he perhaps also drink alcohol and take psychiatric drugs at the same time?

Did Xenu get into him and upset his thetan balance?

SLUSK

humanji wrote: »

Did Xenu get into him and upset his thetan balance?

Do you have any proper arguments at all or are you just going to keep accusing me of being a Scientologist?

humanji

SLUSK wrote: »

Do you have any proper arguments at all or are you just going to keep accusing me of being a Scientologist?

Well it's about as valid as your arguments, and the fact that your following the scientologist line, it's hard to take you seriusly. You don't seem to know what your talking about and this just seems like a rant more than anything else. When you show an understanding of psychiatry and how it works then you arguments will be easier to follow.

SLUSK

Ok, not that long ago homosexuals were considered mentally ill. Homosexuality was defined as a mental illness in older versions of the DSM. Isn't this enough to prove that psychiatry's definitions of mental illnesses are arbitrary? I guess this is also Scientology propaganda.

Nodin

SLUSK wrote: »

Ok, not that long ago homosexuals were considered mentally ill. Homosexuality was defined as a mental illness in older versions of the DSM. Isn't this enough to prove that psychiatry's definitions of mental illnesses are arbitrary? I guess this is also Scientology propaganda.

Doctors used believe that some illnesses were caused by the agitation of the animal humours, therefore we must treat all diagnoses with that in mind? A word you might remember is "progress".

While Psychiatry and psychology are both developing fields of endavour (as indeed is all medicine and science), they are certainly not as clueless as hitherto, and nowhere near as dire as you seem to think them. No drug is perfect, no cure without certain limitations or caveats. The alternative, however, is frequently far worse.

Taxipete29

SLUSK wrote: »

Why don't you go to the Swedish medical community and tell them that Concerta does not have aggression as a known side effect... They will laugh at you. It is listed as a possible side effect on the label on the package ffs. I know you are not allowed to give medical advice here but I myself would never trust the opinion of someone I consider to be a quack.

I myself have no affiliation with Scientology. I don't know any Scientologists. I find myself mostly influenced by Thomas Szasz. Unfortunately the anti psychiatry movement has found itself hijacked by Scientology.

So do you also believe that drug addiction is not a disease and all drugs should be freely available and not prohibited??

SLUSK

Taxipete29 wrote: »

So do you also believe that drug addiction is not a disease and all drugs should be freely available and not prohibited??

I believe drug addiction is a very bad thing but I also believe drugs should be legal. However I do not want government to subsidize these kind of drugs. If you want to know all my opinions in politics PM me, since this will get OT otherwise.

Taxipete29

SLUSK wrote: »

I believe drug addiction is a very bad thing but I also believe drugs should be legal. However I do not want government to subsidize these kind of drugs. If you want to know all my opinions in politics PM me, since this will get OT otherwise.

I only ask as this is one of the arguments of Szasz.

SLUSK

One of the consequences of psychiatry and goverment subsidies of these drugs is that there is a black market for these drugs in school yards. Kids labelled with ADHD sell Ritalin to their class mates, it's like cocaine for kids.

If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.

The_Minister

Slsuk, can you please clarify your comment on eugenics and psychiartry?

Despite myself I'm intrigued.

SLUSK

The_Minister wrote: »

Slsuk, can you please clarify your comment on eugenics and psychiartry?

Despite myself I'm intrigued.

Well at least in Sweden you had forced sterilization of mentally ill people, nothing wrong with that. It was "science" after all wasn't it? Psychiatrists also thought lobotomy was a very good idea.

humanji

SLUSK wrote: »

One of the consequences of psychiatry and goverment subsidies of these drugs is that there is a black market for these drugs in school yards. Kids labelled with ADHD sell Ritalin to their class mates, it's like cocaine for kids.

If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.

And is this widespread?

SLUSK

humanji wrote: »

And is this widespread?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ritalin-abuse-hits-students-looking-for--an-exam-kick-537088.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/24/86-percent-rise-in-adhd-m_n_266818.html?show_comment_id=29650219#comment_29650219

If you have a copy of the latest revision of the DSM you could easily fake symptoms to get a hold of the kind of drugs you want and then sell them for profit. Drug addicted parents have been known to force their kids to fake ADHD to get Ritalin prescribed.

Byron85

SLUSK wrote: »

If you're a kid with a bit of an entrepreneurial streak you can quite easily fake the symptoms of ADHD, then you get free drugs which you can sell to your class mates, all paid for by the taxpayers.

So I suppose these kids are also faking low levels of Dopamine and under development of the pre frontal cortex in their brains too?

OldJay

SLUSK wrote: »

How did you survive without the meds before you were diagnosed i wonder?

Do you have any experience of suffering from or being close to someone suffering from mental illness?
I ask this because you post as someone who has most certainly not. It reads like a pamphlet from a bored undergraduate student in the JCR craving attention.

Your belittlement of manic depression and quite often subsequent mania or even worse, psychosis belies any claim you might have to credible views on the subject.

Its fitting that you post this ridiculous ill-informed bilge from behind the safety of anonymity in a forum on the internet.

SLUSK

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

So I suppose these kids are also faking low levels of Dopamine and under development of the pre frontal cortex in their brains too?

Are all these tests done before you prescribe meds? I have read alot of cases where they prescribe Ritalin based on statements from teachers and parents.