Is love/marriage/kids for the lucky few?

iguana2005 · 18-12-2009 11:41pm #1

so finally cut contact with this guy who was treating my like crap. am gutted. i thought the love of my life - i loved him and had met some of his family. basically the thrill was gone for him..but not for me..

i dont find dating easy - in fact i never date. any man i meet is through friends which i prefer. when people go on about dating it drives me nuts. i feel so helpless and frustrated. i am the life and soul of the party - I probably know too many people in my town. men dont chat me up EVER. would not be very attractive.

those who are married and happy do you think you are lucky? among my good good friends they were all lucky to meet guys and are happy with their lot. im the only single girl.im 37. too late now for kids and dread a life of singledom and would rather die now. i want the excitement of getting engaged, a little wedding, having your first baby...its all work work work for me on a crap wage.

RealistSpy · 19-12-2009 12:31am

Hey

Don't be so hard on yourself! I am not married or anything so I don't know how married people do it. Age is nothing but number you have to go out and have fun. Along the way you will find a better man (I don't believe in this whole thing about right men) coming from a man :P.

Anyways OP

GL

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 12:51am

hey,

i can identify so much with you kiddo. i'm 36 and have had a pretty unsuccessful dating history. 3 relationships worth mentioning ever - totalling 7 out of say 20 potential dating years. was 19 when had first BF a gap then of 5 years til the next significant one and then a gap of 7 years til the most recent which lasted 7mths and unfortunately broke up a month ago.

i have agonised for years about how difficult it seems to be to meet my match and settle down etc. have dated a good few times but little comes of them mostly bar the 3 significant ones mentioned. when i met my last BF i really thought he was The One and especailly at 36, i really, really hoped that it would work out. i loved him dearly but he dumped me as his feelings went. am finding the aftermath so tough as i really hoped it would finally work out for me and i'm so conscious of my age and time a -ticking. but i DON'T think i'm too late for kids yet, neither are you. of course we don't have many yrs left but please don't give up yet as i can't afford to. i hate to think that it's too late but do worry about it.

it's a funny old world tho. why is it that the basic needs of meeting someone and having a family doesn't happen for all of us as easily as it seems to for most? most of my friends have settled with families and for many of them it was so straight forward. my sibs all met their wives/ husbands in their 20's and all have families and i feel such a freak sometimes. they feel so sad for me that my latest relationship didn't work out. they all met him and i know they were so excited for me but it wasn't to be. i'm pretty out-going, have lots of friends and interests.i consider myself v open to meeting guys and usually give them a chance. have done the speed dating, internet dating, blind dates etc but anyone significant i've met has been thro friends/family. this pool of people is sadly diminishing tho...

i wouldn't mind the waiting to meet some one game so much if it wasn't for the harsh reality of the ticking clock. for yrs i cringed at the very mention but now as i'm going on 37, it's BANG, WALLOP, it's very, very real! it's not fair how women have this pressure and men can go on forever.

but, essentially, i do wonder if it's all for the lucky few. and for the rest of us, what did we ever do wrong?? i'm still struggling after my latest let-down, and every one of them hits me so much harder now as i'm getting older, sadly. it gets harder to dust yourself off yet again. but i really couldn't deal with the notion that at nearly 37 that it's already "too late" for kids. i know i won;t have a party of 5 certainly but i still hope i'll have one at least. maybe even be lucky and have twins at 40!

keep the faith, girl. i feel your angst. there are a few of us out there alright and we are questioning the way of the world too. let's just hope, eh?

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 12:24pm

Im 40 and never got a chance at kids. In my 3rd long term relationship now but he won't give me kids.

No man I was ever with ever wanted kids so even if you have a relationship kids can still be an impossibility.

Life can be so lonely and the childless ARE stigmatised by society, something I never wanted to believe or accept, but its true.

People ask me why I never had kids, what am I supposed to say? 'oh, no man wanted them with me'

I do feel like a freak and an oddity and strangely I am not bad looking and have a good kind personality. Even the most unstable drunk I know managed to pull a man who gave her a child.

I feel so alone and freakish too. The world is such a sad place when you are outside looking in.

iguana2005 · 19-12-2009 3:07pm

good to see am not the only person who feels so left out of society. i really dont understand how god can put individuals on this earth and make them suffer and for commiting sin then for suicude..whilst your nieghbour is living the life and things going their way

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 3:13pm

Well girls I'm 35, married and can't have kids (many miscarriages), so its not all sunshine and laughter this side either.

I lived in America a few years back. Over there women are having kids on their own through donation. If I was single and fertile and this age I would consider it. In ten years time it will be becoming normal anyway. I know I would worry about what people think, but they're not living your life are they? You could then date without the dreaded biological clock hanging over your head? Worth thinking about?

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 3:19pm

Interesting post. Im a man and I do feel the same way as you OP. I definitely feel like Im on the outside looking in. Especially at christmas when it seems like the whole world is part of a loving, close family........ well everyone except me. I know thats not true but at the same time it does feel that way. Personally I get along ok by myself most of the time but times like christmas really nail home the isolation and sense of being excluded.
I dont come from a close family myself, in fact we're pretty much all estranged from each other and my friends are all hooked up in relationships. So it really is just me myself & I at christmas. I mean for example today I asked two of my friends seperately if they'd like to go to the movies tonight. Both said no, spending time with the girlfriends. And thats the way it is most og the time. The only time they say yes is when their girlfriends are off doing something else. This makes me feel really great and valued as a friend.
It is frustrating because I would like to meet somebody but my opportunities are limited. Its hard to socialise on your own. Feel angry aswell, when I was going out with a girl Id always make sure that my friends weren't left hanging on their own at the weekends, Id always make time for them. But this hasnt been reciprocated. But what can you do, it is what it is. No I dont have a ticking biological clock but at the same time the isolation can be pretty intense. Its crazy the way we're made, people I mean. We're born with the need to eat food and drink water in order to survive. Theres plenty of those resources available to be cultivated and harvested. But we're also born with the need for love, but you cant just grow that or pluck it from a tree. What happens if you cant get love anywhere? Do you die, the same way as if you couldnt get water?
I dont get it at all. Some people seem to fall into relationships so easily while others struggle a lot. I dunno maybe the Grass is always greener and married people with kids, dogs and the whole nine yards look at single people with envy? I talk to a few older guys quite a lot(meet them in the gym)and theyre constantly bitching about their wives or girlfriends and how better off people like me are. But at the same time they stay with their wives and girlfriends???? Maybe theres some sort of security thing going on there.
Anyway I know thats absolutley no help to you OP and ive pretty much just hijacked your post. But I needed to vent a little at the unfairness of it all. My apologies.

iguana2005 · 19-12-2009 5:21pm

Guest1257 wrote: »

Interesting post. Im a man and I do feel the same way as you OP. I definitely feel like Im on the outside looking in. Especially at christmas when it seems like the whole world is part of a loving, close family........ well everyone except me. I know thats not true but at the same time it does feel that way. Personally I get along ok by myself most of the time but times like christmas really nail home the isolation and sense of being excluded.
I dont come from a close family myself, in fact we're pretty much all estranged from each other and my friends are all hooked up in relationships. So it really is just me myself & I at christmas. I mean for example today I asked two of my friends seperately if they'd like to go to the movies tonight. Both said no, spending time with the girlfriends. And thats the way it is most og the time. The only time they say yes is when their girlfriends are off doing something else. This makes me feel really great and valued as a friend.
It is frustrating because I would like to meet somebody but my opportunities are limited. Its hard to socialise on your own. Feel angry aswell, when I was going out with a girl Id always make sure that my friends weren't left hanging on their own at the weekends, Id always make time for them. But this hasnt been reciprocated. But what can you do, it is what it is. No I dont have a ticking biological clock but at the same time the isolation can be pretty intense. Its crazy the way we're made, people I mean. We're born with the need to eat food and drink water in order to survive. Theres plenty of those resources available to be cultivated and harvested. But we're also born with the need for love, but you cant just grow that or pluck it from a tree. What happens if you cant get love anywhere? Do you die, the same way as if you couldnt get water?
I dont get it at all. Some people seem to fall into relationships so easily while others struggle a lot. I dunno maybe the Grass is always greener and married people with kids, dogs and the whole nine yards look at single people with envy? I talk to a few older guys quite a lot(meet them in the gym)and theyre constantly bitching about their wives or girlfriends and how better off people like me are. But at the same time they stay with their wives and girlfriends???? Maybe theres some sort of security thing going on there.
Anyway I know thats absolutley no help to you OP and ive pretty much just hijacked your post. But I needed to vent a little at the unfairness of it all. My apologies.

well said my friend well said..similar to you in that family arent all that close either..and when you said what happens when you dont find love make me nearly cry...
i must add to all those 'lucky peple' who have found a partner and are getting on withi t....that yes we could be in a lot worse situation and stop complaining as they are people starving in africa..and to take heed of all the good things in your life..I do just like no doubt anyone else who has replied to my thread..im always on the look out..am not desperate...have loads of friends and very well liked and known...just lady luck has dealt me a cruel blow in the love stakes..

eviltwin · 19-12-2009 5:27pm

Is it the be all and end all though?

I mean you only have to look at this place to see how many fcuked up marriages there are out there

Maybe being single is the way to go?

iguana2005 · 19-12-2009 5:37pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Is it the be all and end all though?

I mean you only have to look at this place to see how many fcuked up marriages there are out there

Maybe being single is the way to go?

oh dont get me wrong - been single all my life and have travelled the world, met the most amazing people, snogged some amazing guys went to te best parties but as you get older its get a lot harder...

you dont have someone to share purchasing a house together - i particularly find life expensive when on my own - rent, blls, food are all on you..and its hard renting a house with strangers(unless your lucky to have some friends of similar nature)...i dread my future..all my money - have worked ALL my life in various great jobs but cash has had to go on living and not saving - well a bit saved but not like a pension - cant afford health care - cant afford to go away on holidays unless some of my mates are going and i tag along - single holidays/trekking is expensive...

what will happen when we turn 60/65 - who will i rent a house with - where will my income come from - who will bury me and come to my funeral?

thats gutting to think about

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 7:35pm

I am in the same boat - 37, got dumped this year but even though he cheated I am devestated. Dreading christmas.

This time last year I was the only one in my family in a relationship, and now tomorrow my sister is expecting her first baby even though we never knew she was in a relationship. Hard pill to swallow. I now have to be excited about the baby and help plan her wedding and be excited for her.

My brother also got engaged this year, he had spilt up this time last year but now they are also planning their wedding.

It's sad that both of them tell me I have changed and gone into myself a lot but neother of them ever ask if I am ok and just tell me I am better off without the guy. They just don't understand. Its very hard, but there seems there is a lot of people here in this situation.

extrinzic · 19-12-2009 7:48pm

To be honest, part of me would love to have children. However, having grown up a bit myself, I wonder if having children is really such a good idea. I mean, it would be lovely in all kinds of way, and not strictly self gratifying, to have children to fill with love and knowledge, to carry the torch for the generations to come. However, look around you. We live in a very unstable society, in a world with probably over seven billion human inhabitants. This population explosion has mushroomed exponentially in the last five hundred years, and we are now, plainly, standing on the brink of change we can believe in.

Seriously, if oil production was halted, for whatever reason, for a few months, if there was a breakdown in the supply chain for just a short time, our society would collapse. To any sensible, educated, and interested party, this is an inevitable situation at some point in the near future. Our society has become so dependent on oil based energy and products, the population of the world would never be at the level it is without it. Without never-ending exponential production of energy, our society will have to contract. This means, frankly, in the event of a stoppage of world energy supply, for just a short time, our food production will stop, and our entire social order will disintegrate. We do not have an underwritten guarantee on energy supplies, and even if we could secure energy production indefinitely (which we can’t) we cannot ensure supply throughout the world. This means, at some point, somewhere in the world, it will stop, and then no electricity, no emergency services, no communications, no governmental order, and billions of death due to environmental exposure, starvation, war and social disorder.

Now, who in their right mind would bring children into this world when such consequences are so oblivious, we are staring them in the face. I know its doomsday madness, but just look at the facts. Oil production has fallen around the world. We are spending more oil on farm machinery, petroleum based fertilisers etc. on producing bio-fuels than we produce using them. All the oil in Iraq will last about a month at current worldwide oil consumption levels. This is not a renewable energy source, it is finite. All indicators point to a drastic drop in world supply, and there is no viable alternative to the energy we get from oil. The oil producing countries and their allies will never admit this for fear of revolution, they will however, meet up in unprecedented cooperation to desperately discuss energy security (global warming).

If I did bring a child into this world, I must accept that it will never know what it is to take energy consumption for granted. In truth, this means a completely different life to life I have known thus far. I’m afraid enough of what lies ahead, without agonising over the needles suffering of an, as of yet, unborn child. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

LegacyUser · 19-12-2009 7:50pm

i am the youngest of 4. my sibs all married at 29/30. the 3 of them all have a few kids each. i'm going on 37 and recently single again, as posted earlier. so hitting 37 and back to square one all OVER again. we are a close famly so lots of family gatherings. xmas will involve lots of family time and i'm the spare eejit in the midst of them all.

most of my friends are married, a few of them with 2 or 3 kids now. others are living w their BF's. only a small few single at this stage.

but as others have said, maybe the grass is greener etc etc, but don't we all need to love and be loved? to have one special person and to be the most special person to another? i was so thrilled with my BF this year who recently dumped me. it took me 7 years to find that relationship and i thought, wow, it's been worth the wait so am gutted. and worse still is that my dating hx is poor so i DO know how hard it is to meet a nice guy so i'm scared it will take years again and i don't have the time to wait!

i just don't get it, it shouldn't be this hard. even if i met a guy today and he would like kids with me, i would prefer to have a couple of years getting toknow him, enjoy ourselves as a couple first and then at some point have a family. but the way it is now, we would need to be having kids in the next 3/4 years and that would leave little time to us on our own AND that's IF i meet someone TODAY! this time pressure is horrible. i envy those who had a few yrs with their partners, later got married, later when ready, had kids - the best way...

CDfm · 20-12-2009 2:39am

life isnt all about kids.

I was out at a dinner party last night and only 3 out of the 6 women did not have kids nor do they want them.

One of them late 30s admits to being a cougar though she is settling down on her terms she wants her gorgeous shoes,clothes and holidays. Now she is looking for a man to share it with.

KIds do not define a relationship

kenbrady · 20-12-2009 8:44am

extrinzic wrote: »

To be honest, part of me would love to have children. However, having grown up a bit myself, I wonder if having children is really such a good idea. I mean, it would be lovely in all kinds of way, and not strictly self gratifying, to have children to fill with love and knowledge, to carry the torch for the generations to come. However, look around you. We live in a very unstable society, in a world with probably over seven billion human inhabitants. This population explosion has mushroomed exponentially in the last five hundred years, and we are now, plainly, standing on the brink of change we can believe in.

Seriously, if oil production was halted, for whatever reason, for a few months, if there was a breakdown in the supply chain for just a short time, our society would collapse. To any sensible, educated, and interested party, this is an inevitable situation at some point in the near future. Our society has become so dependent on oil based energy and products, the population of the world would never be at the level it is without it. Without never-ending exponential production of energy, our society will have to contract. This means, frankly, in the event of a stoppage of world energy supply, for just a short time, our food production will stop, and our entire social order will disintegrate. We do not have an underwritten guarantee on energy supplies, and even if we could secure energy production indefinitely (which we can’t) we cannot ensure supply throughout the world. This means, at some point, somewhere in the world, it will stop, and then no electricity, no emergency services, no communications, no governmental order, and billions of death due to environmental exposure, starvation, war and social disorder.

Now, who in their right mind would bring children into this world when such consequences are so oblivious, we are staring them in the face. I know its doomsday madness, but just look at the facts. Oil production has fallen around the world. We are spending more oil on farm machinery, petroleum based fertilisers etc. on producing bio-fuels than we produce using them. All the oil in Iraq will last about a month at current worldwide oil consumption levels. This is not a renewable energy source, it is finite. All indicators point to a drastic drop in world supply, and there is no viable alternative to the energy we get from oil. The oil producing countries and their allies will never admit this for fear of revolution, they will however, meet up in unprecedented cooperation to desperately discuss energy security (global warming).

If I did bring a child into this world, I must accept that it will never know what it is to take energy consumption for granted. In truth, this means a completely different life to life I have known thus far. I’m afraid enough of what lies ahead, without agonising over the needles suffering of an, as of yet, unborn child. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

Anyone can be the mother/father of the child who will grow up to invent the next source of energy that will fuel the world for the next 1000 years.

RealistSpy · 20-12-2009 10:58am

I have been reading all these.... It seems like you have all given up? I really hope not, you have to be optimistic you never know what tomorrow brings.

Emme · 21-12-2009 10:32am

RealistSpy wrote: »

I have been reading all these.... It seems like you have all given up? I really hope not, you have to be optimistic you never know what tomorrow brings.

That's like something a well-meaning relative would say! It's important not to give up but the reality is that a woman's chances of meeting somebody who wants to commit decreases as she gets older, and once she gets past 35 it's down the slippery slope. All we can do is make the most of other things - have a good circle of friends and try not to make meeting someone the focus of our lives. The worst thing is feeling so alone, it's good to know that I'm not the only one who feels the same way, the OP's first thread could have been about me!

I'm not into the SATC lifestyle with the shoes, handbags and toyboys - I couldn't afford it on my salary anyway! I'd just like to be able to share my life with somebody good and that includes sharing mundane things like bills as well as the good times. A problem shared is a problem halved and it's tough dealing with stuff on your own all time, if you let it get to you it would make you hard and bitter. That's the most challenging thing about growing older - I'm constantly watching what I say and what I think because if a single woman lets things get to her she would quickly turn into a bitter wagon.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would hate to be a bitter wagon!

Warfi · 21-12-2009 11:48am

It is tough being single expecially when all your friends are matched up. However, I personally wonder would I find it so tough if my friends weren't matched up? I think there are other ways of living your life without doing what your friends do. So I look to people who aren't settled down with 2.4 children, and see how they live their lives and what they get happiness from. It's helped me in two ways 1. I've found realistic role models (realistic for me) 2. I've found other people who are single and are enjoying themselves (despite being single :eek:

)

seahorse · 21-12-2009 1:09pm

Emme wrote: »

That's the most challenging thing about growing older - I'm constantly watching what I say and what I think because if a single woman lets things get to her she would quickly turn into a bitter wagon.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would hate to be a bitter wagon!

This really made me laugh! Emme you don't sound like a bitter wagon at all, lol.

As for the whole single vs involved lifestyles, I can confidently tell singles it's not a bed of roses over here on this side of the fence. Sharing your life with someone involves sharing some things you'd really rather not share at all, like decisions about where you might go to and how long you might stay there. Me and my bloke generally go where we like and when we like but there's always the other person to be considered. I regularly feck-off for weekends, for example, but a three week trek in India or Peru, which I would dearly LOVE, is not something I'd do because I'd miss him too much to leave for three weeks, so in these ways you can find yourself restricted. I have had times when I've felt envious of the free-spirited nature of the single life and I think all people who are romantically involved will tell you they have felt that too, if they're honest.

Warfi · 21-12-2009 1:20pm

seahorse wrote: »

This really made me laugh! Emme you don't sound like a bitter wagon at all, lol.

As for the whole single vs involved lifestyles, I can confidently tell singles it's not a bed of roses over here on this side of the fence. Sharing your life with someone involves sharing some things you'd really rather not share at all, like decisions about where you might go to and how long you might stay there. Me and my bloke generally go where we like and when we like but there's always the other person to be considered. I regularly feck-off for weekends, for example, but a three week trek in India or Peru, which I would dearly LOVE, is not something I'd do because I'd miss him too much to leave for three weeks, so in these ways you can find yourself restricted. I have had times when I've felt envious of the free-spirited nature of the single life and I think all people who are romantically involved will tell you they have felt that too, if they're honest.

I agree with this, there're good and bad things on both sides. And I'd also like to add that I've wished to have someone to do things with, but once they came along, I started to wish for other things. Life doesn't magically work out when you meet someone. Bills still have to be paid, and ****e things still happen

eviltwin · 21-12-2009 7:17pm

Have any of you thought that maybe you give off a vibe that screams desperate - thats a horrible word I know but I cant think of anything else

Reading through the posts here I feel totally depressed, its like everyone has just given up and has become bitter and cynical as a result.

extrinzic · 21-12-2009 7:40pm

Welcome to the club

LegacyUser · 21-12-2009 8:12pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Have any of you thought that maybe you give off a vibe that screams desperate - thats a horrible word I know but I cant think of anything else
.

Eeeeuw. You shouldn't say the 'desperate' word to singles. A coupled-up 'friend' once said that to me a few months after a major breakup and I didn't return her calls for weeks. Thankfully I'm not single anymore.... but I wasn't 'desperate' at that time either... just lonely and trying to meet someone (FYI it worked!).
I really believe that more than any other area of life, meeting the right person is a matter of luck (helped by actively looking of course)

We're all allowed to wallow a little bit from time to time. But life does go on. Yes it is much harder to meet someone as you get older - not just because there are fewer decent men available, but because we're so fully formed as people. I would bet money that at least one of the single girls on this thread will be coupled up by this time next year. Just stop worrying and assume its going to be you.

But giving up isn't an option. Taking a few weeks to wallow is fine of course, but late thirties is too young to give up.

Emme · 21-12-2009 8:40pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Have any of you thought that maybe you give off a vibe that screams desperate - thats a horrible word I know but I cant think of anything else

Reading through the posts here I feel totally depressed, its like everyone has just given up and has become bitter and cynical as a result.

I don't think I give off a desperate vibe, but the guys I'm interested in aren't interested in me. I'm pushing 40 and looking for guys 40-49 but I mostly get chatted up by guys younger than me :eek: !!! This is fine, but they're not going to stick around for the long haul.

Kids may or may not be realistic for me at this stage (my maternal great-grandmother had her youngest at 43 and my grandmother had my mum at 41) but one of the reasons I'm childless now is because I wouldn't have children unless things were right, ie marriage, house, safe area for children, nice schools nearby and enough money coming in for one of us to stay home and look after them instead of us both doing mad commutes, leaving the children in a creche and only seeing them properly at weekends. One guy called me a gold-digger because I wanted this! Looking back maybe I was too idealistic but I don't regret not having children if I wasn't in a position to give them the best.

The people who give off the most desperate vibe are men who are unhappily married but instead of having the balls to do something about it they either go online or down the pub and look for a bit on the side. Maybe I'm being horrible, but the recession has done these guys a favour because they have the perfect excuse "I'm separated but we can't sell the house so I'm still there with my estranged wife." So maybe marriage isn't so great after all

.

It gets kinda wearing though, going out with a group of single women in or around 35-40 who are all moaning about being single. Some of these women are so negative that they see another woman as a threat when they meet her, not as a potential friend. Their negative vibe scares everyone off, including men. I consciously avoid people like that now and have managed to broaden my social circle even though it takes that bit more effort as you get older.

LegacyUser · 21-12-2009 11:28pm

so heres another side to a topic like this. im almost 30. when i was 18 i fell pregnant obviously not planned. never had trouble getting a man and i still dont have any trouble.

a couple of years ago i met someone who moved into my house with me and my son. planned on building a house on his land, getting married and having more kids. all was good or goodish looking back there were signals i missed.

we planned to get pregnant as at the time we were planning to get married but hadnt the finanaces to do so, dont ask me why i ever thought it was a good idea but anyways i now have 2 kids. we got engaged formally a few months after i had my second son. 2 months later he hit me, i threw him out and that was that.

i now have 2 kids with 2 different dads, what hope is there for me to find someone who will take on me and my 2 kids and there 2 dads and the whole situation. all because i was nieve and believed in my relationship.

dont get me wrong here i love my kids there my boys and i woudnt give them up for the world although there are days i just want to go to the pub and just get locked like everyone else is doing.

on top of all that ive moved away from my hometown to go back to college and recently fell out with my mum so i to am alone for xmas, ok not technically alone my boys will be with me but my family wont i cant go home, ive rented out my house so i cant go there either so im spending xmas in a rented house in a town where i know hardly anyone.

some days im so lonely. im trying my best with my lot but i feel so stupid to. how could i let someone talk me into getting pregnant and ruining any chance i had of ever meeting someone nice. im so mad with myself cos whatever chance i had of meeting someone when i had 1 child i think its slim to none now that i have 2. theres a 9 year age difference between my boys by the way, i didnt have 2 accidents!

anyways thats my side. happy xmas to all who are alone x

Maria G · 21-12-2009 11:42pm

Hi justathought, so sorry to hear about the miscarraiges. Have you come across Naprotechnology? A friend of mine had the very same problem and it helped her conceive be figuring out the underlying problem. It's also twice as effective as IVF, shame so few people know about it. Here's a link...
http://www.fertilitycare.ie/

justathought wrote: »

Well girls I'm 35, married and can't have kids (many miscarriages), so its not all sunshine and laughter this side either.

I lived in America a few years back. Over there women are having kids on their own through donation. If I was single and fertile and this age I would consider it. In ten years time it will be becoming normal anyway. I know I would worry about what people think, but they're not living your life are they? You could then date without the dreaded biological clock hanging over your head? Worth thinking about?

Emme · 22-12-2009 10:51am

samebutdiff wrote: »

so heres another side to a topic like this. im almost 30. when i was 18 i fell pregnant obviously not planned. never had trouble getting a man and i still dont have any trouble.

a couple of years ago i met someone who moved into my house with me and my son. planned on building a house on his land, getting married and having more kids. all was good or goodish looking back there were signals i missed.

we planned to get pregnant as at the time we were planning to get married but hadnt the finanaces to do so, dont ask me why i ever thought it was a good idea but anyways i now have 2 kids. we got engaged formally a few months after i had my second son. 2 months later he hit me, i threw him out and that was that.

i now have 2 kids with 2 different dads, what hope is there for me to find someone who will take on me and my 2 kids and there 2 dads and the whole situation. all because i was nieve and believed in my relationship.

dont get me wrong here i love my kids there my boys and i woudnt give them up for the world although there are days i just want to go to the pub and just get locked like everyone else is doing.

on top of all that ive moved away from my hometown to go back to college and recently fell out with my mum so i to am alone for xmas, ok not technically alone my boys will be with me but my family wont i cant go home, ive rented out my house so i cant go there either so im spending xmas in a rented house in a town where i know hardly anyone.

some days im so lonely. im trying my best with my lot but i feel so stupid to. how could i let someone talk me into getting pregnant and ruining any chance i had of ever meeting someone nice. im so mad with myself cos whatever chance i had of meeting someone when i had 1 child i think its slim to none now that i have 2. theres a 9 year age difference between my boys by the way, i didnt have 2 accidents!

anyways thats my side. happy xmas to all who are alone x

It would seem that love, marriage and kids (all together) are for the lucky few. You're in a difficult situation and few would envy you, but some women want children so badly they're prepared to go it alone with a sperm donor. That wouldn't be my choice but that's how much some women want children and I wish those women well.

You say that having children has ruined your chance of meeting someone nice but earlier you say you have no trouble getting a man. I know guys who have no problem dating women with children. Actually, some divorced men with children prefer a partner who has children herself because she would have experience of children that a childless woman wouldn't.

It's a pity you've fallen out with your mum. Try to make it up with her for the sake of your children - her grandchildren.

Hope you all have a happy Christmas.

seahorse · 22-12-2009 12:20pm

Guest1257 wrote: »

I mean for example today I asked two of my friends seperately if they'd like to go to the movies tonight. Both said no, spending time with the girlfriends. And thats the way it is most og the time. The only time they say yes is when their girlfriends are off doing something else. This makes me feel really great and valued as a friend.

.....Feel angry aswell, when I was going out with a girl Id always make sure that my friends weren't left hanging on their own at the weekends,

I've only just read the whole of this thread and while I could sympathise with some parts of the above post, these parts jump out to me as very good examples of the negative attitudes you sometimes find yourself up against as somebody in a relationship. Thankfully the majority of singles don’t think like this but some of them do and when they do it is irritating and frustrating.

I've come across it that some people assume if a last minute (as in same-day, as above) invitation has to be turned down you are in some way presumed to be a disloyal or uncaring friend. I've also come across this attitude in my partner’s friends, again, the minority, thank God.

I can never understand this when I come across it. It is not my or my partner’s job to ensure that our friends are not "hanging on their own" at the weekends or at any other time. It's up to each individual how they structure their own private time and I just don't get the mentality of any adult who cannot comprehend that. My partner and I both spend plenty of time with our friends but a same-day invitation is almost always going to be rejected for simple practical purposes: Plans are already made as they usually are when a person is in a relationship. It's very annoying to find that you sometimes are actually expected to apologise for this! Why should you be expected to apologise for something that's an integral part of being in a relationship? How would a single person feel about being expected to apologise for something that's integral to being single? It's also worth noting that we most of us involved people have done our time as singletons too you know!

If I ask a friend would she like to go out that same evening I’ll always preface it with “If you’ve no other plans” and I say that to everyone I know, married, single or in relationships and if they’re busy it doesn’t knock my nose out of joint or lower my opinion of them or affect my view of how I am “valued as a friend”!

I sympathise strongly with anyone who’s lonely because I know what loneliness feels like and I have experienced it to be one of the saddest feelings on earth, but my feelings of sympathy do not impel me to apologise for having a relationship or the any of the practicalities that entails.

Happy Christmas everyone.

Emme · 22-12-2009 12:36pm

seahorse wrote: »

It is not my or my partner’s job to ensure that our friends are not "hanging on their own" at the weekends or at any other time. It's up to each individual how they structure their own private time and I just don't get the mentality of any adult who cannot comprehend that.

Fair enough, but it gets more difficult to structure your private time as a single person as you get older as there are fewer people around to hang out with.

seahorse wrote: »

My partner and I both spend plenty of time with our friends but a same-day invitation is almost always going to be rejected for simple practical purposes: Plans are already made as they usually are when a person is in a relationship. It's very annoying to find that you sometimes are actually expected to apologise for this! Why should you be expected to apologise for something that's an integral part of being in a relationship? We most of us involved people have done our time as singletons too you know!

Those who only do their time as singletons when they are younger and meet somebody at a relatively young age have no idea how difficult it is to meet somebody when you're older. There isn't a college gang or a work gang to hang out with, meeting people (and I don't just mean partners) is hard work!

seahorse wrote: »

If I ask a friend would she like to go out that same evening I’ll always preface it with “If you’ve no other plans” and I say that to everyone I know, married, single or in relationships and if they’re busy it doesn’t knock my nose out of joint or lower my opinion of them or affect my view of how I am “valued as a friend”!

I'm glad you still keep in touch with your single friends because many people who get into relationships drop their single friends like hot bricks. Women are particularly guilty of this. Once they get into a relationship their single friends suddenly have bubonic plague.

seahorse wrote: »

I sympathise strongly with anyone who’s lonely because I know what loneliness feels like and I have experienced it to be one of the saddest feelings on earth, but my feelings of sympathy do not impel me to apologise for having a relationship or the any of the practicalities that entails.

Indeed. Nobody is expecting you to apologise for being in a relationship. Instead thank your lucky stars and don't judge your single friends so harshly.

seahorse · 22-12-2009 1:01pm

Emme wrote: »

Fair enough, but it gets more difficult to structure your private time as a single person as you get older as there are fewer people around to hang out with.

I'll accept that since you say so, but I'm sure you'll agree that does not move the responsibility from a single person to their friends.

Emme wrote: »

I'm glad you still keep in touch with your single friends because many people who get into relationships drop their single friends like hot bricks. Women are particularly guilty of this. Once they get into a relationship their single friends suddenly have bubonic plague.

That's awful. To be honest I wouldn't call a person who dropped me because she'd met a man a friend. I would assume she'd never been much of a friend in the first place.

Emme wrote: »

Indeed. Nobody is expecting you to apologise for being in a relationship.

No, it's more subtle than that. You're not expected to apologise for being in a relationship; you're expected to apologise for behaving as though you were in one.

Emme wrote: »

Instead thank your lucky stars...

I am thankful to have finally found a good man after having kissed a lot of frogs.

Emme wrote: »

...and don't judge your single friends so harshly.

I don't judge my friends harshly Emme, single or otherwise.

Emme · 22-12-2009 1:35pm

seahorse wrote: »

I am thankful to have finally found a good man after having kissed a lot of frogs.

That's great, so there could be hope for all of us yet. Tell me this, do you think that love, marriage and kids are only for a lucky few, and having found a good man, would you consider yourself to be one of the lucky few?

seahorse · 22-12-2009 2:24pm

Emme wrote: »

That's great, so there could be hope for all of us yet. Tell me this, do you think that love, marriage and kids are only for a lucky few, and having found a good man, would you consider yourself to be one of the lucky few?

I think that as a package deal, 'love, marriage and kids' is clearly rarer than finding one or two of these three components. I think though that many people, myself included, are not only more than contented with less than all three but wouldn't even want all three. To explain my own circumstances in that: as far as kids are concerned, my partner and I already have kids. He's got two sons in their late-teens and I've got one son in his mid-teens. Obviously they're from previous relationships and we met long after we'd exited those relationships but when our boys were still children.

This is a fortunate situation I know because it significantly takes the 'will we have kids' stress out of the situation. We already have kids and at this stage neither of us is feeling inclined to go back to the start. Not all women are in the situation of having children of course and for those who are not their stressors are significantly different, in or out of a relationship.

So that is the situation that removes the 'kids' element in this trio of ingredients for happiness for me and it is my attitude that removes the 'marriage' element. I simply don't feel the need to get married. What for? It's perfectly alright for any amount of other women to want this and to get it and I've turned up and had a ball at several of their weddings, but it's not a necessity for me. I've seen enough crumbled marriages to know that it is not wedding rings that hold people together; it is simply the strong desire to not part.

So all I have here is the 'love' and that is more than enough for me. And yes, I do consider myself lucky; but as to being 'one of the lucky few', I don't know about that, because while I would say that we seem happier and closer than a lot of couples I know (and I have noticed that we laugh more and are generally more considerate than I routinely observe) I have no way of looking into the relationships of others and quantifying how much or how little of what I'd regard to be important exists between them. The truth is, we just don't know what's going on in anyone else’s relationship, so it'd be very difficult to accurately place yourself on any kind of reliable relationship scale. That's why I always roll my eyes when I read the assertions of some mans mistress on the internet which are invariably that he is not happy with his wife and this sort of delusional crap, when the clear and obvious truth is that the girl doesn’t and couldn't have a clue!

Sorry for going on but this is an interesting topic. Do you mind me asking would you or have you tried internet dating? It wouldn't be everyone’s cup of tea and I'm not sure that it'd be mine but I have heard of some people making a success of it.

Emme · 22-12-2009 2:44pm

seahorse wrote: »

Sorry for going on but this is an interesting topic. Do you mind me asking would you or have you tried internet dating? It wouldn't be everyone’s cup of tea and I'm not sure that it'd be mine but I have heard of some people making a success of it.

So you have the package then, but not necessarily in the traditionally accepted order. Lucky you!

I have tried internet dating a few times but gave up because I found that the men on the sites were dishonest - many of them were lying about age and marital status. I was willing to be flexible on fibs about height (ok he's 5'10" and not 6') and I'm not overly materialistic so I don't mind what car they drive or what they do for a living as long as they're not bone idle. In the States it's called "losing your list" but some might call it lowering your standards or settling. I call it being realistic. Even with this approach internet dating didn't work for me.

I would still try internet dating, indeed I would consider anything to meet somebody as long as it is honest - I am single and honest and I want to meet somebody who is also single and honest. This is more difficult that you might imagine. I met a 40ish man recently who didn't tick all my boxes but I decided to give him a chance because he was single and honest. On every date he managed to insult me - he said that he really wanted a brunette but didn't mind that I was blonde, said he really wanted someone of 25 but didn't mind that I was in my 30s, and said that he really found South American women hot but didn't mind that I was Irish.

Not good for the ego!

Luckily my life doesn't revolve around meeting a man - I have good friends and a fairly decent social life. That doesn't say I don't want to meet somebody to share my life with, I would love to as a matter of fact. I'm just not willing to devote all my spare time to looking for a man (some women do :eek:) - this inevitably leads to bitterness and disappointment.

seahorse · 22-12-2009 3:14pm

Emme wrote: »

So you have the package then, but not necessarily in the traditionally accepted order. Lucky you!

Well I guess so, but it wasn't all moonlight and roses, believe me. My sons natural father walked out on us the day I told him I was pregnant and the man who raised him with me and who he called 'daddy' died when my son was very young, so we finally and eventually got to this place in our lives but it has not been an easy road in getting here. As for tradition, I wouldn't be too worried about that because the more I look at Irish society the less benefits of traditionalism I see!

Emme wrote: »

I have tried internet dating a few times but gave up because I found that the men on the sites were dishonest - many of them were lying about age and marital status.

That is exactly what I'd be wary of; it's exactly what I cautioned my sister about when she first tried it, and no, she's yet to find a decent man on the internet either! In fact I know one woman who was drawn into an affair with a married man without her knowledge and nearly had a nervous break-down as a result of it. I did read the advice on these boards recently though that apparently the sincerity of people on paid dating websites as opposed to free ones is markedly different. I suppose it makes sense that those who are willing to pay for the service would be more dedicated to accessing the actual service it provides, rather than just looking for a quick leg-over. I don't know if this will be any use to you though as you may have had your disappointments on a paid website for all I know.

Emme wrote: »

I met a 40ish man recently who didn't tick all my boxes but I decided to give him a chance because he was single and honest. On every date he managed to insult me - he said that he really wanted a brunette but didn't mind that I was blonde, said he really wanted someone of 25 but didn't mind that I was in my 30s, and said that he really found South American women hot but didn't mind that I was Irish. Not good for the ego!

What an arsehole! I'd have told him I really preferred men who were not arseholes but unlike him I was not willing to compromise.

Emme wrote: »

Luckily my life doesn't revolve around meeting a man - I have good friends and a fairly decent social life. That doesn't say I don't want to meet somebody to share my life with, I would love to as a matter of fact. I'm just not willing to devote all my spare time to looking for a man (some women do :eek:) - this inevitably leads to bitterness and disappointment.

Too true. I have one particular single friend who is actually often harder to pin down for a night out than many of the settled women I know purely because her life is so busy and full. I hope to God I can manage to structure my life as she does if I ever find myself single again!

LegacyUser · 22-12-2009 7:46pm

seahorse wrote: »

I've only just read the whole of this thread and while I could sympathise with some parts of the above post, these parts jump out to me as very good examples of the negative attitudes you sometimes find yourself up against as somebody in a relationship. Thankfully the majority of singles don’t think like this but some of them do and when they do it is irritating and frustrating.

I've come across it that some people assume if a last minute (as in same-day, as above) invitation has to be turned down you are in some way presumed to be a disloyal or uncaring friend. I've also come across this attitude in my partner’s friends, again, the minority, thank God.

I can never understand this when I come across it. It is not my or my partner’s job to ensure that our friends are not "hanging on their own" at the weekends or at any other time. It's up to each individual how they structure their own private time and I just don't get the mentality of any adult who cannot comprehend that. My partner and I both spend plenty of time with our friends but a same-day invitation is almost always going to be rejected for simple practical purposes: Plans are already made as they usually are when a person is in a relationship. It's very annoying to find that you sometimes are actually expected to apologise for this! Why should you be expected to apologise for something that's an integral part of being in a relationship? How would a single person feel about being expected to apologise for something that's integral to being single? It's also worth noting that we most of us involved people have done our time as singletons too you know!

If I ask a friend would she like to go out that same evening I’ll always preface it with “If you’ve no other plans” and I say that to everyone I know, married, single or in relationships and if they’re busy it doesn’t knock my nose out of joint or lower my opinion of them or affect my view of how I am “valued as a friend”!

I sympathise strongly with anyone who’s lonely because I know what loneliness feels like and I have experienced it to be one of the saddest feelings on earth, but my feelings of sympathy do not impel me to apologise for having a relationship or the any of the practicalities that entails.

Happy Christmas everyone.

I wasnt having a go at anybody for being in a relationship. What I am saying though is that its not cool to forget your friends and treat them like second choice or back up plans once you are in a relationship. I mean it has happened several times when Ive made plans with my friends for a certain night only for that night to arrive and be dumped because my friends girlfriends decided, at short notice, that they wanted to do something that same night. So if its not ok for single people to expect their friends time at short notice then it should work the other way aswell. But it doesnt. Now maybe you dont do this seahorse but my friends certainly have been doing this and from reading other posts on this thread, Im not alone in my experience.

"It is not my or my partner’s job to ensure that our friends are not "hanging on their own" at the weekends or at any other time. It's up to each individual how they structure their own private time and I just don't get the mentality of any adult who cannot comprehend that."

I have to take issue with this statement because in my book it is most defintely my job to look out for my friends and make sure theyre not hanging. Thats what being a friend is. Im not talking about once offs, where you play second fiddle to the girlfriend/boyfriend, thats fine and understandable. But Its about consistancy, what a person contiually does, thats how theyre judged and defined. Like I said, when I was dating someone Id look out for my single friends and not constantly choose my girlfriend over them. That to me is what a friend is all about. You give people an even share of your time, not contiually picking one over the other. But in my experience thats what has happened, and again from reading other posts on this topic, Im not alone. People are responsible for how they spend their time, yes, but when youre in a situation where youre single and youre friends pick thier other half over you continually, then filling your time becomes a difficult task.

"If I ask a friend would she like to go out that same evening I’ll always preface it with “If you’ve no other plans” and I say that to everyone I know, married, single or in relationships and if they’re busy it doesn’t knock my nose out of joint or lower my opinion of them or affect my view of how I am “valued as a friend”!"

And the reason you have no problem with this is because you always have a back up, your partner. Its called emotional security, you have it, single people dont. Break up with your partner, then see how you take your invitations being rejected. Emotional security is one of those things you take for granted when you have someone, but when its gone you'll notice it then, trust me. When I was going out with my girlfriend and I wanted to go see a film by myself it was grand, no problems, even enjoyable. I had emotional security because I knew there was somebody there who would go with me if I wanted them to. But when I had no girlfriend and my friends wouldnt go because they were off with their partners, going to the cinema alone was a cold and lonely experience. Emotional security is a big deal and it makes a huge difference.

LegacyUser · 22-12-2009 8:23pm

Guest1257 wrote: »

And the reason you have no problem with this is because you always have a back up, your partner. Its called emotional security, you have it, single people dont. Break up with your partner, then see how you take your invitations being rejected. Emotional security is one of those things you take for granted when you have someone, but when its gone you'll notice it then, trust me. When I was going out with my girlfriend and I wanted to go see a film by myself it was grand, no problems, even enjoyable. I had emotional security because I knew there was somebody there who would go with me if I wanted them to. But when I had no girlfriend and my friends wouldnt go because they were off with their partners, going to the cinema alone was a cold and lonely experience. Emotional security is a big deal and it makes a huge difference.

I know what you're saying. Its incredible how quickly one can be dumped when one's friends get a new guy. Whats also happened to me is that when my friend does then want a girls night out, she lets me get dressed up, spend a tonne of money going into town, and then says she's tired and wants to go home at 10pm, just as the action is about to happen!!! Though of course that says more about certain friends than about people in relationships.

Thankfully (and by that I mean HALLEJULIA!!! MIRACLES CAN HAPPEN! **dances around the room***) I met someone last year and now we're engaged (I'm 36) but I almost didn't bother with my fiance at first as I'd had four years of bad experiences with guys such as the above poster mentioned.... I even swear we dated the same guy. I was starting to think that men were cruel and relationships were impossible for me.

In many ways I think our generation of women has been cheated. I know me and alot of my friends spent our 20s in an absolute, irrational fear of pregnancy as we were brought up to academic, have careers & do everything the right way.
The men haven't been up to scratch either. Most of my single friends we cut loose from long term relationships a few years back because a generation of men seem to have problems committing... or at least committing on time :-(

Anyway, I won't be forgetting my single friends anytime soon.

seahorse · 04-01-2010 12:52pm

I hope the mods won’t mind me responding to these comments two weeks after the fact. I haven’t been near my computer since before Christmas and Guest 1257 may still be around.

Guest1257 wrote: »

..if its not ok for single people to expect their friends time at short notice then it should work the other way aswell.

That is to assume that friends and partners ought to be treated with the same level of priority. If they were then partners would have no special status in a person’s life, which would contradict the nature of romantic relationships to begin with. Personally I wouldn’t cancel plans with my friends for my partner’s sake unless it was for a reason that was important to him, but if it was then I would cancel and I wouldn’t feel bad about it either. Prioritising the person you love above all others is the nature of a relationship.

Guest1257 wrote: »

I have to take issue with this statement because in my book it is most defintely my job to look out for my friends and make sure theyre not hanging.

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. I don’t feel myself responsible for my friends’ lives and I don’t expect (and wouldn’t actually want) for them to feel responsible for mine.

Guest1257 wrote: »

Like I said, when I was dating someone Id look out for my single friends and not constantly choose my girlfriend over them.

And that was your choice, which you were entitled to make. What you're not entitled to do is to tell anyone else how they ought to be conducting their own relationships. If someone wants to prioritise their partner to the ends of the earth and to the exclusion of all others, personally I wouldn't think that was wise, but I'd never take it on myself to get annoyed over how someone else was conducting their relationship for the simple reason that it's none of my business.

Guest1257 wrote: »

And the reason you have no problem with this is because you always have a back up, your partner. Its called emotional security, you have it, single people dont. Break up with your partner, then see how you take your invitations being rejected. Emotional security is one of those things you take for granted when you have someone, but when its gone you'll notice it then, trust me. When I was going out with my girlfriend and I wanted to go see a film by myself it was grand, no problems, even enjoyable. I had emotional security because I knew there was somebody there who would go with me if I wanted them to. But when I had no girlfriend and my friends wouldnt go because they were off with their partners, going to the cinema alone was a cold and lonely experience. Emotional security is a big deal and it makes a huge difference.

You’re wrong there. I don’t get my emotional security from my partner. I get emotional comfort from him, certainly, but the bedrock of my emotional security doesn’t come from outside of myself.

I think it’s a major mistake to look for emotional security in somebody else. The problem with leaving your emotional security in someone else’s hands is that if you do split up, they take your emotional security with them and you are left adrift, bereft, and in the situation you’ve described where you can’t even enjoy your own company to the extent that activities done alone become “cold and lonely” experiences.

With the exception of my current partner, I’ve left every man I’ve ever been involved with. That’s because when things become unworkable, I know that no matter how badly I’m sure to feel after walking away I know I’ll handle it. Like you say, emotional security is a big deal and it makes a huge difference; that’s why I’m not about to entrust mine to anybody else.

jenggg · 04-01-2010 10:33pm

Guest 1257 talks a lot of sense. He is right about emotional security in my opinion-it's not that you are entrusting it to someone else when you are going out with them, it's more the knowledge that you have a stable companion that you call/rely on, fallback on. I find it harder and harder to be single as I have noone to go to weddings with, go for coffee on a Saturday afternoon with etc etc. I wouldn't mind doing those things now and again on my own knowing that it's a once off! But no matter what anyone says it becomes tedious sitting in coffee shops on your own with noone opposite you. Friends just aren't the same anymore either. It's like you turn around one day and they are all married and settled. will put their husbands first and live in their little bubble and you feel your little dating stories are trivial to them.... Anyway I digress!!!:)

Is love/marriage/kids for the lucky few?

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