Start the calls for the arrest of Pope Benedict

ven0m

quite simply, every single bishop, priest, garda & vatican person who had knowledge of the details of the contens of the recent report, & all previous reports should now be issued with an arrest warrant against them for:

- knowledge of thousands of crimes of the act of rape, buggery, unlawful carnal knowledge of minors
- conspiracy to hide said thousands of acts of criminality
- conspiracy to pervert the course of justice & to cover up thousands of crimes

Priests/Bishops etc using phrases like mistakes etc - noit good enough, or those saying they have a clear conscience - they knew, & never raised it with police, it wasn't mistakes.

Simply outrageous barbaric acts of criminal behaviour, mass-rape, not to mention the number of poor souls they inadvertantly killed (those who couldn't live with what happened to them & killed themselves) - I mean, when is this country going to get over this 'church is untouchable' garbage & actually get down to brass tacks.

THOUSANDS OF CRIMES were committed, many in this country facilitated these crimes not being investigated, or with peolpe being procesuted & most of all, a foreign organisation had FULL knowledge of these crimes & saw fit to not inform about said acts of criminal behaviour, & assisted with the cover-ups of those crimes.

Time for a whole load of people in frocks to be put in jail, & given the extent of Pope Benedict's involvement with this, he needs to have a warrent for his immediate arrest put out for him as the 'head of this organistion', & as someone who was involved in the hiding of details of the crimes.

The rape of thousands of Irish children & children abroad by Irish priests must be tackled as a massive international crime, with these paedophiles & their facilitators facing a court of law in the respective jurisdictions where the crimes & indeed attrocities were committed, with as much international weight as possible forcing the Vatican to release all information held without delay or predjudice to the relevant law authorities.

The more I see the excuses & language being used in this country by religious orders & their representatives, the Irish media & indeed the Vatican, the more I think the greatest crime this century will go unpunished, untried & yet again, an 'untouchable' organisation will walk away scott-free, with no remorse, leaving those affected with a horrendous cross of injustice to bear the burdon of for the remainder of their lives.

hada

any chance you could summarise that? it's a bit long tbh

Overheal

hada wrote: »

any chance you could summarise that? it's a bit long tbh

He wants to kill the head vampire to stop the Pedo plague or something.

electrogrimey

The Law works differently with regard to the Church. Always has. Henry II said this back in the 12th century. He solved the church's objection by killing the Archbishop. Maybe we should try that.













See what I did there? I made a history-nerd post vaguely AH friendly.

CreepingDeath

Easier just to declare the Catholic church as an illegal organisation and disband it.

Although then you might end up with the continuity catholic church.

ven0m

hada wrote: »

any chance you could summarise that? it's a bit long tbh

Short version:

The pope & the catholic church as a legally recognised business organisation hid evidence & the knowledge of many thousands of acts of rape, buggery, unlawful carnal knowledge of minors in Ireland, & in many other foreign countries by Irish priests & then proceeded to conceal those crimes under direction of people like Pope Benedict when he was a Cardinal.

pwd

the provisional RCC

wes

I think it would be kinda of hard to arrest him, as he is the head of state of the Vatican, and even if he came here, it would probably be on diplomatic business and he would be immune. Now, I guess we could try and invade the Vatican, but thats not exactly feasible.

Now, I agree that we should certainly arrest everyone in out country who was involved in these crimes and toss them into a jail to rot if they are found guilty.

mikom

ven0m wrote: »

Start the calls for the arrest of Pope Benedict

Don't worry Empatojayos Brand will be intercepting him shortly.

FlutterinBantam

ven0m wrote: »

Short version:

The pope & the catholic church as a legally recognised business organisation hid evidence & the knowledge of many thousands of acts of rape, buggery, unlawful carnal knowledge of minors in Ireland, & in many other foreign countries by Irish priests & then proceeded to conceal those crimes under direction of people like Pope Benedict when he was a Cardinal.

No doubt you have chapter and verse to back up those specific allegations?

The_Minister

'Greatest crime this century'

The crimes, in general, took place last century, the same century as the Holocaust.

Woah there Nelly.

0ubliette

ven0m wrote: »

quite simply, every single bishop, priest, garda & vatican person who had knowledge of the details of the contens of the recent report, & all previous reports should now be issued with an arrest warrant against them for:

- knowledge of thousands of crimes of the act of rape, buggery, unlawful carnal knowledge of minors
- conspiracy to hide said thousands of acts of criminality
- conspiracy to pervert the course of justice & to cover up thousands of crimes

Priests/Bishops etc using phrases like mistakes etc - noit good enough, or those saying they have a clear conscience - they knew, & never raised it with police, it wasn't mistakes.

Simply outrageous barbaric acts of criminal behaviour, mass-rape, not to mention the number of poor souls they inadvertantly killed (those who couldn't live with what happened to them & killed themselves) - I mean, when is this country going to get over this 'church is untouchable' garbage & actually get down to brass tacks.

THOUSANDS OF CRIMES were committed, many in this country facilitated these crimes not being investigated, or with peolpe being procesuted & most of all, a foreign organisation had FULL knowledge of these crimes & saw fit to not inform about said acts of criminal behaviour, & assisted with the cover-ups of those crimes.

Time for a whole load of people in frocks to be put in jail, & given the extent of Pope Benedict's involvement with this, he needs to have a warrent for his immediate arrest put out for him as the 'head of this organistion', & as someone who was involved in the hiding of details of the crimes.

The rape of thousands of Irish children & children abroad by Irish priests must be tackled as a massive international crime, with these paedophiles & their facilitators facing a court of law in the respective jurisdictions where the crimes & indeed attrocities were committed, with as much international weight as possible forcing the Vatican to release all information held without delay or predjudice to the relevant law authorities.

The more I see the excuses & language being used in this country by religious orders & their representatives, the Irish media & indeed the Vatican, the more I think the greatest crime this century will go unpunished, untried & yet again, an 'untouchable' organisation will walk away scott-free, with no remorse, leaving those affected with a horrendous cross of injustice to bear the burdon of for the remainder of their lives.

Sounds like someone was molested as a child :rolleyes:

hada

While I can understand the anger the OP feels, his legal argument is poo. Ipso facto, it's a non runner.

humanji

I fully agree that he should be arrested. That red and white moo moo ensemble is just criminal. And that white skull cap just screams bad taste.

hada

0ubliette wrote: »

Sounds like someone was molested as a child :rolleyes:

I would most definitely retract that statement.

genericguy

The_Minister wrote: »

The crimes, in general, took place last century, the same century as the Holocaust.

i've heard a few times that the holocaust never happened.

ven0m

wes wrote: »

I think it would be kinda of hard to arrest him, as he is the head of state of the Vatican, and even if he came here, it would probably be on diplomatic business and he would be immune. Now, I guess we could try and invade the Vatican, but thats not exactly feasible.

Now, I agree that we should certainly arrest everyone in out country who was involved in these crimes and toss them into a jail to rot if they are found guilty.

Sudanese president Omer Hassan Al-Bashir currently has an arrest warrant out for him by the international criminal court & the South African Government are keeping him safe from Extradition & have requested other African states refuse to co-operate with said warrent.

Lucky for us, we're in Europe & the Vatican is right in the middle of it & the only way out is into Europe to go ANYWHERE in the world.

He personally knew with his involvement in the invesitgations while he wasa Cardinal. But then again, he is an ex-Hitler youth member, & part of an organisation that refused to acknowledge the genocide of European Jews during World War II - should be expected that the response of an an ex-Nazi supporter would be to hide away, say nothing & act like nothing happened 'on his watch'.

KnifeWRENCH

Was Benedict personally implicated anywhere in the Murphy report?
Was he the one raping children?
Did he personally intervene to cover up any of the abuse?
Has he actually done anything which would warrant his arrest? Would his resignation make one blind bit of difference to all the horrible **** that has come out in the report?

Yes, many members of the Church in this country failed, abused and disgraced its people. But Pope Benedict, as much as I dislike the man, wasn't the one responsible.

This just seems like a sensationalist excuse to have a dig at the Church because they're an easy target right now.

admiralofthefleet

he will pay for it in hell with the other popes who are already there

ven0m

hada wrote: »

While I can understand the anger the OP feels, his legal argument is poo. Ipso facto, it's a non runner.

Legal argument is sound.

Having knowledge of a crime & failing to disclose it to the authorities of a jurisdiction in Europe where that crime happened is in fact a crime, punitive under any jurisdictional law in Europe.

If you know about a murder, fail to disclose it to the police & then they find out you knoew, failed to disclose - you are charged with an acessory after the fact, as well as possibly perverting the course of justice.

So, now tell me where my 'argument is poo'.

TheZohanS

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Did he personally intervene to cover up any of the abuse?
Has he actually done anything which would warrant his arrest?

Yes.

ven0m

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Was Benedict personally implicated anywhere in the Murphy report?
Was he the one raping children?
Did he personally intervene to cover up any of the abuse?
Has he actually done anything which would warrant his arrest? Would his resignation make one blind bit of difference to all the horrible **** that has come out in the report?

Yes, many members of the Church in this country failed, abused and disgraced its people. But Pope Benedict, as much as I dislike the man, wasn't the one responsible.

This just seems like a sensationalist excuse to have a dig at the Church because they're an easy target right now.

He was the head of a Vatican committee who made sure all report details done by investigations initiated by the cathoilic church in ireland were taken to Rome, & anyone who's tried getting access to those investigations has been met with legal road block after legal roadblock, even parties acting on behalf of victims of those crimes.

The head of an organisation is DIRECTLY responsible for those who report to him. And the fact is, he did know because of his previous involvement, & the fact all details of any acts or reports within the church are wholy accessible by him by order of papal mandate & evne more so now by his position, yet he saw fit to not release them to the legal bodies of the countries. Witholding information of crimes IS a cover-up of abuse.

Knowledge of a crime & not reporting it is the same as performing it - it's called being an 'accessory' - you may or may not have heard of this.

That report by the way is only a SAMPLE of what happened, not the full extent. If the full extent was actually reported in full, this country's international reputation would be so far in the bin, it'd be unretrievable.

Resigantions mean jack squat - arrests & prosecutions are what is needed, & time time for pissing about around this issue has got to come to an end.

Also, I love how people think outrage over the concealment of crimes such as the rape of children, buggery & molestation of children is 'sensationalist'. Is it any wonder so few people report rapes when people react like that to calls for criminal prosecutions against acts like these???

The_Minister

ven0m wrote: »

Sudanese president Omer Hassan Al-Bashir currently has an arrest warrant out for him by the international criminal court & the South African Government are keeping him safe from Extradition & have requested other African states refuse to co-operate with said warrent.

Lucky for us, we're in Europe & the Vatican is right in the middle of it & the only way out is into Europe to go ANYWHERE in the world.

He personally knew with his involvement in the invesitgations while he wasa Cardinal. But then again, he is an ex-Hitler youth member, & part of an organisation that refused to acknowledge the genocide of European Jews during World War II - should be expected that the response of an an ex-Nazi supporter would be to hide away, say nothing & act like nothing happened 'on his watch'.

If you're referring to the Church, that is anti-Catholic propaganda The Church was very quick to condemn the massacre of Jews in Mit brennender Sorge, which was read in German in every German Church, and the Church saved tens of thousands of Jews by funneling them out of Germany.

Here is an Article from the Jewish Virtual Library.

wes

ven0m wrote: »

Sudanese president Omer Hassan Al-Bashir currently has an arrest warrant out for him by the international criminal court & the South African Government are keeping him safe from Extradition & have requested other African states refuse to co-operate with said warrent.

Yeah, and the Pope doesn't even a have a warrant from the ICC against him, so I don't see an arrest happening soon. If someone as evil as Al-Bashir (accused of Genocide) can get away from International justice, then I think the Pope, with no ICC warrant for his arrest will have a far easier time.

ven0m wrote: »

Lucky for us, we're in Europe & the Vatican is right in the middle of it & the only way out is into Europe to go ANYWHERE in the world.

Do you see the Italian government limiting the Popes movement? I don't.

ven0m wrote: »

He personally knew with his involvement in the invesitgations while he wasa Cardinal. But then again, he is an ex-Hitler youth member, & part of an organisation that refused to acknowledge the genocide of European Jews during World War II - should be expected that the response of an an ex-Nazi supporter would be to hide away, say nothing & act like nothing happened 'on his watch'.

Last time, I checked everyone his age in Germany were forced to join the Hitler Youth or else. So I don't think we can hold that against the man.

First mention of I have heard of Holocaust denialism.

Again, arresting the Pope seems pretty damn unfeasible to me, and you haven't really shown how it could possibly happen considering the current circumstances.

RMD

No offense OP, but the only thing that's coming across in this topic to me is

"Rabble rabble rabble, I hate the church, rabble rabble rabble arrest the pope, rabble rabble rabble child molestation"

R0ot

First things first tldr;

How about we arrest the OP for this post? We didn't have enough drivel about priest on AH already?

partyatmygaff

He hasn't done anything to warrant an arrest. If you have solid evidence that you think warrants a trial present it to interpol, I'm sure they need a laugh every once in a while.

spareman

partyatmygaff wrote: »

He hasn't done anything to warrant an arrest. If you have solid evidence that you think warrants a trial present it to interpol, I'm sure they need a laugh every once in a while.

I agree with the op, and believe it is another scandal the fact the Gardai have not acted upon information within the murphy report. I believe if it was any other organisation whose members committed and covered up these horrible crimes against innocent Irish children, not only would we have seen numerous arrests by now but the organisation would have been run out of the country long ago.

Dont think you will get many sensible responses to your post here in AH, especially from people whose signitures include memorials to people who have made pay outs to avoid child abuse allegations made against them.

ven0m

partyatmygaff wrote: »

He hasn't done anything to warrant an arrest. If you have solid evidence that you think warrants a trial present it to interpol, I'm sure they need a laugh every once in a while.

Benedict XVI was for more than twenty years the head of the Congregation for the Doctorine of the Faith (CDF), when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. In this capacity he headed the Vatican department which was responsible for the management of abuse cases right across the global Roman Catholic Church.

In 2001 he wrote to every Bishop in the world in May 2001 instructing them on how they were to handle cases of child sexual abuse by priests. The letter stated that the CDF would “continue to have exclusive competence” for how cases were to be handled. Note the word “continue” here, as in it alreaday was the entity with exclusive competence to decide how cases were to be handled.

The letter said the CDF was to be informed about all cases of priests who sexually abused children and asserted the church’s right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and kep the evidence confidential for up to ten years after the victim reached adultood. Link to news coverage here.

So Pope Benedict XVI has detailed personal expereince of managing the issue of clerical sexual abuse for many years, at the global level. He is fully aware of the scale of the problem and is the source of the document about which the Commission of Investigation wrote to both the Papal Nuncio and the Vatican in an effort to discover the nature of the church cover up of abuse in Dublin. The Vatican and the Papal Nuncio, the Pope’s ambassador to Ireland, both failed to even reply to the letters from the Commission.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1127/1224259548033.html

How can someone who was FULLY aware of the problem & the scale, say he was 'shocked by the report', when he's handled the issue for 20 years in full knowledge of EVERY case of accusation that has cropped up, with reports of them in his care?

And then also, go on to place the blame squarely on those who run the Irish Catholic Church? He over saw the whole god damn thing for 20 years!!!!!!


Catholic doctrine teaches that 'Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."'

He most certainly didn't say 'If you're an Irish priest, molest, rape & bugger as many children as possible, then engage in cover-ups'. :mad:

Morlar

partyatmygaff wrote: »

He hasn't done anything to warrant an arrest. If you have solid evidence that you think warrants a trial present it to interpol, I'm sure they need a laugh every once in a while.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091218/capt.9af713b7979b456c85c15b1a51e9a08a.poland_auschwitz_sign_stolen_aus104.jpg

Rented Mule

Morlar wrote: »

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091218/capt.9af713b7979b456c85c15b1a51e9a08a.poland_auschwitz_sign_stolen_aus104.jpg

That's where that sign went !!

The Pope nicked it !!

julien05

it will be like getting Henry to say sorry for his handball and letting ireland go to the WC instaed of france.

spareman

julien05 wrote: »

it will be like getting Henry to say sorry for his handball and letting ireland go to the WC instaed of france.

What I tell ya:rolleyes:

Closed ac

The Pope's "arrest" reminded me of this, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNUMAztVHc

Uncanny similarity between the two..

Midnight_EG

ven0m wrote: »

Short version:

The pope & the catholic church as a legally recognised business organisation hid evidence & the knowledge of many thousands of acts of rape, buggery, unlawful carnal knowledge of minors in Ireland, & in many other foreign countries by Irish priests & then proceeded to conceal those crimes under direction of people like Pope Benedict when he was a Cardinal.

No, shorter, please, we're quite slow.

partyatmygaff

spareman wrote: »

Dont think you will get many sensible responses to your post here in AH, especially from people whose signitures include memorials to people who have made pay outs to avoid child abuse allegations made against them.

And who might these people be?

I haven't seen anyone with a signature like that.

Mike 1972

R0ot wrote: »

First things first tldr;

How about we arrest the OP for this post? We didn't have enough drivel about priest on AH already?

+1

you would be hard pressed to find a more enthusiastic religion basher on AH than myself but for the love of Darwin how many of these threads do we really need ?

I really dont see why there is so much discusion on this topic at the moment anyway. The recent report doesnt really amount to more than verification of what weve all known for quite some time now but then again about a year ago people were getting all upset about some report that said a lot of christian brothers beat up their pupils -imagine !!!!!!

hada

ven0m wrote: »

Legal argument is sound.

Having knowledge of a crime & failing to disclose it to the authorities of a jurisdiction in Europe where that crime happened is in fact a crime, punitive under any jurisdictional law in Europe.

If you know about a murder, fail to disclose it to the police & then they find out you knoew, failed to disclose - you are charged with an acessory after the fact, as well as possibly perverting the course of justice.

So, now tell me where my 'argument is poo'.

OK, didn't want to get too legal about this, since this isn't the Legal Discussion forum....anyway..


On technical level, you're taking about bringing criminal actions, say against the Pope himself. Under what international jurisdiction (if it even is applicable) are you going to bring it under? You're taking about at one stage bringing the pope to account for under any jurisdiction - so we're going to extradite the Pope?!...Aside from that would you actually consider the ICC bringing about an action against the pope, the head of the Roman Catholic Church?...the ICC is funded by states, NGOs and the likes...do you actually think they would be foolish enough to do such a thing???


Secondly, if you were thinking about even bringing civil action against him, for say, neglience; good luck trying to not lose out on any number of grounds, be it remoteness (causation), novus actus interveniens...and you couldn't bring it anyway, you (as far as one can tell) haven't suffered any injury.


Oh and that's not to mention that there is no such thing as a class action in Ireland, so every person who wanted to bring a civil action would have to bring it separately.



So ya, your legal grounds are poo.

Closed ac

recessionpatch wrote: »

Imagine this was ryanair or Microsoft, the lads would be soooo arrested casue its the church its all cool bs

I wholeheartedly agree. What a fascinating insight to the whole situation. Kudos to you!

partyatmygaff

recessionpatch wrote: »

Imagine this was ryanair or Microsoft, the lads would be soooo arrested casue its the church its all cool bs

LOL, this deserves post of the day.

de_mirelurk

recessionpatch wrote: »

if it was microsoft they'd do it

Are oo sure oo're not thinking of Nike??

de_mirelurk

... or possibly Adam Sandler in De Waterboy.

Nodin

Rented Mule wrote: »

That's where that sign went !!

The Pope nicked it !!

No, he said he was just taking it back....

Bandit12

0ubliette wrote: »

Sounds like someone was molested as a child :rolleyes:

What a stupid thing to say. Even for after hours.

ven0m

Well, I am going to apologise for anything posted that has offended anyone, but I've spent some time talking with people who this has affected directly, & reading what I have this last few months & experiences within my family of those helping victims, I have just become truly shocked at the absolute refusal of the government, & more improtantly the catholic church as a business institution to address what happened for what it is - criminal behaviour - calling it mistakes etc is just even worse, it's like equating what happened to not mopping up water that caused someone to slip.

Just shameful & disgusting, especially the absolutely disingenuous statements from the Pope himself given his first hand knowledge & involvement & when I think to the horror stories I've heard first hand & from those in my family who've worked in organisations helping victims ..... just absolutely mind boggling to the point of making me very angry & feeling sick to my stomach when these PR shams are published & passed around in the press.

So apologies to anyone I offended, or those who I seem to have rubbed the wrong way.

philstar

it has to said this Pope is a PR disaster

he's already pissed off ..

the Protestants
the Muslims
the jews
the homosexuals
the women

is there any group of people he hasn't offended yet??

MagicMarker

philstar wrote: »

it has to said this Pope is a PR disaster

he's already pissed off ..

the Protestants
the Muslims
the jews
the homosexuals
the women

is there any group of people he hasn't offended yet??

I hear it's the Greeks he's after.

galwayrush

philstar wrote: »

it has to said this Pope is a PR disaster

he's already pissed off ..

the Protestants
the Muslims
the jews
the homosexuals
the women

is there any group of people he hasn't offended yet??

Apparently the OP.:D

bSlick

It's a pity this thread is about arresting Pope Benedict, which is frankly ridiculous, and not about arresting Cardinal Connell. It's just nonsense to talk about aresting the Pope, we all know that is a completely and utterly impossible task for Ireland.

Arresting Cardinal Connell, on the other hand, is much more doable and if the political will was there he would be facing criminal charges.

Criminal Law Act 1997

Penalties for assisting offenders.
7. - (1) Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender
(2) Where a person has committed an arrestable offence, any other person who, knowing or believing him or her to be guilty of the offence or of some other arrestable offence, does without reasonable excuse any act with intent to impede his or her apprehension or prosecution shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) If, upon the trial on indictment of an arrestable offence, it is proved that the offence charged, or some other offence of which the accused might on that charge be found guilty, was committed but it is not proved that the accused was guilty of it, the accused may be found guilty of an offence under subsection (2) of which it is proved that he or she is guilty in relation to the offence charged, or that other offence.
(4) A person committing an offence under subsection (2) with intent to impede another person's apprehension or prosecution shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment according to the gravity of the offence that the other person has committed or attempted to commit, as follows: (a) if that offence is one for which the sentence is fixed by law, or for which the maximum sentence is imprisonment for life, he or she shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years;
(b) if it is one for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may be sentenced to imprisonment for a term of fourteen years, he or she shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years;
(c) If it is not one included in paragraph (a) or (b) but is one for which a person of full capacity and not previously convicted may be sentenced to imprisonment for a term of ten years, he or she shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years;
(d) in any other case, lie or she shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.

People have been charged under that section of the Law for alot less than what Cardinal Connell was responsible for. It really shows how f*cked up this country is that a guy who has covered up and facilitated priests raping and abusing hundreds/thousands of children, some of whom went on to commit suicide, is not being charged with a crime when there is a law that is directly applicable to this situation. I wonder what would happen if someone made a citizens arrest on him under that section of the Law....surely if put on the guards/politicians couldn't deny he should be facing those charges...

This media/political angle that the bishops acted unethically but not illegally is just pure and utter spin.

Look at sections (2) and (4) and tell me he/they don't have a case to answer.

saoranach

In fairness if there was any justice in the world the pope along with Irelands bishops would go to jail for the subversion of justice. Never mind resigning, these people should be going down in handcuffs for what they condoned

Kold

Maybe it's just easier to legalise child molestation at this stage.