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Why are all our chippers Italian?

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  • 18-12-2009 1:42pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭


    Hey folks,

    Quick question that I was wondering about today

    How come so many of the chippers in Ireland are owned by and named after Italians?

    Matassa's, Mizzoni's, Macari's....

    There's nothing Italian about battered sausages and burgers and wurly burgers and fresh cod !

    Any ideas?


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,497 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    because, thats why


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭passive


    Mongrel did a great feature on this a couple of years ago... I wonder if it's available online anywhere. hrm...


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Chocoholic84


    Supermac's has, and will always be, the finest chipper EVER!*






    *particularly when a little intoxicated...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Supermac's has, and will always be, the finest chipper EVER!
    if you like soggy overpriced chips yeah.

    ahh ninja edit ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭raptorman


    Someone told me that all the Itallians that run chippers in Ireland come from one region of Italy! I wonder is there any thruth in that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Whassa matta you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭weeder


    Supermac's has, and will always be, the finest chipper EVER!

    get out, and dont come back EVER!

    everyone knows england and wales have the best chips.
    Whassa matta you?
    gotta no respect


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    http://www.italvideonews.com/uploads/2/0/4/1/2041256/storia_italiani_parte_3.pdf

    I think there is a book just published on the subject ,but the name doesn't come to mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,125 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Alot of takeaway food related convos today ya would know it was Friday :p

    Eh why there all from Italy ......... no idea actually :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    weeder wrote: »
    get out, and dont come back EVER!

    everyone knows england and wales have the best chips.

    You sir, are an outrage. This will not stand and I challenge you to a duel - battered sausages at dawn.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    Irelands idea of fast food would be boxty and a loaf of soda bread.

    Thank God for Itallian, Chinese, Indian, and everyone other nationality that breaks the boredom of spuds! (Though i am partial to a decent mash)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    I heard that none of the italian chipper families are in fact italian they are all roma gypsies and from the back of these they run the flower selling and begging operations. This is is also why one of the chipper franchises is called roma.

    FACT!


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Chocoholic84


    weeder wrote: »
    get out, and dont come back EVER!

    :D MMMM, garlic cheese chips...........


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    themadchef wrote: »
    Irelands idea of fast food would be boxty and a loaf of soda bread.

    Thank God for Itallian, Chinese, Indian, and everyone other nationality that breaks the boredom of spuds! (Though i am partial to a decent mash)

    Irish fast food would be stew or Dublin bay coddle and spuds.

    Big pot boiling all day serve as needed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    This article sheds some light on the Italian chipper


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2009/1103/1224257963964.html
    How fish and chips enriched a nation


    IRISH VISITORS to Italy will no doubt have noticed that its national dish is not burger and chips. You do not swing onto Rome’s Via del Corso to be met by the smell of boiling oil. You do not sit down for dinner, and choose an antipasto of batter burger and onion rings. Which has always made it somewhat curious that the Italians in Ireland became renowned for their chippers, and that many of the names that were serving fish and chips half a century ago will still be serving snack boxes to peckish or drunken Irish this and every weekend.

    It began sometime in the 1880s, when an Italian, Giuseppe Cervi, stepped off an American-bound boat that had stopped in Cobh and kept walking until he reached Dublin. There, he worked as a labourer until he earned enough money to buy a coal-fired cooker and a hand-cart, from which he sold chips outside pubs.

    Soon after, he found a permanent spot on Great Brunswick Street (now Pearse Street), where his wife Palma would ask customers ‘Uno di questo, uno di quello?’, meaning ‘one of this and one of the other?’ In doing so, Palma helped to coin a Dublin phrase, ‘one and one’, which is still a common way of asking for fish and chips. The shop, meanwhile, had launched an industry.

    Much of what is known about the history of the chipper is detailed in the wonderful work of John K Walton, a professor of social history at the University of Central Lancashire. In 1994, he wrote a book, Fish and Chips and the British Working Class, 1870-1940 , and it is an invaluable addition to the admittedly small library of chipper histories.

    In it, we learn that, by 1909, there were 20 fish and chip shops in Dublin, serving a population of only 290,000. This, though, was nothing compared with the size of the trade in British cities, where the relationship between chippers and Italians originated.

    In 1905, there was a fish and chip shop for every 400 citizens of Leeds and Bradford.

    The chipper had first become popular in the north of England, as a happy amalgam of fried fish and cooked potato trades that had grown separately during the mid-1800s. ‘It is not clear which area, and still less which individual, deserves the credit for bringing about the momentous marriage of fish and chips,‘ writes Walton. ‘This is a matter of murky and probably insoluble dispute.‘ However, it is guessed that it happened sometime between the 1860s and 1890s.

    It was in Scotland that the Italians began to make the fish and chip trade their own. Why they were so taken by the business isn’t clear, though Walton suggests that it may have been because they saw the fish and chip shops of London as they passed through there on their way north. With Italians leading the way, Scotland was home to 4,500 chippers by 1914. In Glasgow alone, an estimated 800,000 fish suppers were being sold every week.

    Naturally, the shops often doubled as ice-cream parlours.

    With the Italian immigrants to Ireland, then, came the chip shops. These were not the first Italians to make an impression in Ireland. Stucco workers had been imported to work on the big houses of the country; the tiling, glasswork and ornamental woodwork in Belfast’s glorious Crown Bar were created by Italians moonlighting in between working on Catholic churches.

    Others were brought here as musicians and dancers.

    But for individual impact few Italian immigrants could rival Charles Bianconi. Originally a purveyor of gilded frames, Bianconi realised that there had to be an alternative to lugging the goods around on his back. So, in 1815, he set up a coach service, with the first route running from Clonmel, Co Tipperary to Cahir, Co Waterford. By the middle of the century, his routes criss-crossed the island and he had become a very wealthy man indeed. By the time Bianconi died, in 1875, the railway was well on its way to killing the coach business, but he had been responsible for the country’s first integrated transport system.

    Still, it is through their chippers that the Italian population in Ireland served up an example of how a relatively small number of newcomers could imprint themselves on the national culture, psyche and, in this case, stomach.

    Almost all of the Italian chipper families in Ireland come from a district of six villages in the province of Frosinone, and they originally came here as the subdivision of land at home led to mass migration from rural Italy. Families such as the Borzas, Caffellos and Macaris are still the names on the Guinness-blackened tongues of Saturday nights.

    These Italians came to Dublin via Paris, then Scotland or resorts in the south of England, where they would no doubt have seen the success their compatriots had had in the fish and chip trade there. In Ireland, they managed to replicate that success, although some regions proved hard to crack. Walton points out that, given how the migration chain would have gone from Scotland through the north of Ireland, it is odd that Belfast ‘provided inhospitable soil for Italian fish friers in the early twentieth century’. Belfast remained resolutely keen on oysters and shrimps instead of fried fish. The post-pub trade in oysters has clearly not lasted. Instead, it was Dublin and Cork in which the chippers first took hold, although it’s worth noting that Ireland’s well-known fish and chip shop, Beshoff, was set up by a Ukrainian immigrant, Ivan Beshov, who had taken part in the 1905 mutiny on the Potemkin and fled west through Turkey and London, until he landed in Ireland where he was first arrested and interned in the Curragh camp on suspicion of being a German spy.

    Once he became free, he set up a chip shop with the help of Italian friends, and had to restart it after it was destroyed in a bombing of Dublin’s North Strand by the Germans in 1941. It went on to become something of a Dublin institution. When he died in 1987, his birth certificate said he was 102 years old, but he had insisted that he was 104.

    The Chinese in Ireland, also a small population for most of the twentieth century, had an impact on the taste buds and street fronts of a great many Irish towns and villages. The Chinese migrants of the 1950s to 1970s came mostly from Hong Kong, leaving their homes because of economic pressures brought about by a collapse in the local rice farming industry.

    They travelled through Britain and on to the north of Ireland, because their status as Commonwealth citizens allowed them free movement until a change in the law in 1962 limited the flow of immigrants.

    With them came the Chinese restaurant that had grown in popularity in Britain during the post-war years. Ireland’s first opened in 1957, in a house on Leeson Street. There are now about 6,000 Chinese restaurants in the country. The first Chinese restaurant opened only a year after the first Indian restaurant, the Golden Orient, was also opened on Leeson Street. Its proprietor, Mike Butt, was an East African Indian who had come to Ireland from Kenya, and upon opening he found that most Irish people just wanted to order steak. So he served steak, but the Golden Orient survived as an Indian restaurant for those looking for a little culinary adventure.

    THE NUMBER OF INDIAN RESTAURANTS did not explode in the way that Chinese restaurants did, and certainly not as they did in the UK, although this is largely down to how little Asian migration there was to Ireland. Still, the two countries share certain trends. Even now, when most people in Britain or Ireland go for Indian food, they are probably eating in a Bangladeshi restaurant, as it is they who have popularised the cuisine of the subcontinent of which their country used to be part.

    Although, this is not always true. Some are run by Pakistanis.

    All of these culinary offcuts might seem like a bit of a diversion, but they also serve as peculiar reminders of how a small influx of migrants – even a single migrant – can have an impact on a national culture


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    My local chipper when I lived in Dublin was run by a family with a half Italian, half Dub accent - they were awesome to listen to. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭g-whizz


    :D MMMM, garlic cheese chips...........

    mmm sweet as a nut!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭D-Generate


    I think you will find that only chippers in Dublin are Italian. Chippers in Cork don't have fancy Italian names and serve the finest chips in Ireland. Lennox's being probably the most famous but its quality jsut ain't the same any more. Other good chippers would have been Matty Kiely's and the Golden Fry. Not an Italian name in sight!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,011 ✭✭✭cHaTbOx


    "Whassamatta you? (hey!)
    Gotta no respect?
    Whaddaya think you do?
    Why you looka so sad?
    It's-a not so bad
    It's-a nice-a place
    Ah, shaddap you face!"


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    D-Generate wrote: »
    I think you will find that only chippers in Dublin are Italian. Chippers in Cork don't have fancy Italian names and serve the finest chips in Ireland. Lennox's being probably the most famous but its quality jsut ain't the same any more. Other good chippers would have been Matty Kiely's and the Golden Fry. Not an Italian name in sight!
    KC's ftw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Nope - Limerick has the Italians too. Fusco's and the gang in O'Connell Grill (can't rem surname). Most of the Italians in Limerick seem to be in the food game, be it restaurants or chippers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭BluesBerry


    I heard that none of the italian chipper families are in fact italian they are all roma gypsies and from the back of these they run the flower selling and begging operations. This is is also why one of the chipper franchises is called roma.

    FACT!

    Roma gypsies are not Italian!!! :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Whassa matta you?

    <Linguo>

    What is the matter WITH you?

    </Linguo>


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    D-Generate wrote: »
    I think you will find that only chippers in Dublin are Italian. Chippers in Cork don't have fancy Italian names and serve the finest chips in Ireland. Lennox's being probably the most famous but its quality jsut ain't the same any more. Other good chippers would have been Matty Kiely's and the Golden Fry. Not an Italian name in sight!

    What about mushy peas? do they serve mushy peas?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    themadchef wrote: »
    a loaf of soda bread.
    Nothing wrong with a soda farl.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Joliegood


    betafrog wrote: »
    Supermacs is horrible ****e that tastes like it was freeze dried and taken out of a packet that said "Just add water"...

    Horrible horrible stuff, not helped by the largely pikey customer base...
    +1


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    the best Fish and Chips i've had was in Scotland. The best Fish is in NZ in chippers, but they mostly use frozen chips so that's a letdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Supermac's has, and will always be, the finest chipper EVER!*






    *particularly when a little intoxicated...
    SV wrote: »
    if you like soggy overpriced chips yeah.

    ahh ninja edit ;)
    betafrog wrote: »
    Supermacs is horrible ****e that tastes like it was freeze dried and taken out of a packet that said "Just add water"...

    Horrible horrible stuff, not helped by the largely pikey customer base...

    Lads lads lads!

    I'm sorry, but Supermacs is NOT a chipper!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭thenightrider


    Those lad's that ran The Van were irish


    Maybe thats why we dont have irish runing chipers they have all being watching that move to see how the busines is run


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