Whey Protein Question

G-Money

I was taking whey protein shakes made with water a while ago after my gym workouts but I stopped as I figured I didn't really need them at the moment seeing my main focus is fat loss.

I know building muscle helps burn fat but I kind of thought taking in the extra calories from the protein shake was basically calories that I could do without at this stage.

Anyway I was considering taking the protein again, and I had an idea but I don't know if it's a good plan or not. My cereal in the morning usually consists of oat flakes, some nuts, berries, flaxseed/gojiberries and low fat yoghurt. I don't take milk with my cereal, I just pour over a low fat yoghurt instead and mix it all up.

I was thinking about adding in a scoop of whey protein with all of this. I'm guess what I'm wondering though is if the whey protein powder must be mixed up in some sort of liquid first (water or milk) and drank that way?

Could I just add it dry to my cereal, mix everything all up with the yoghurt and have it that way?

I'm not so sure it's a good idea, but I figured some wiser heads would know.

Thanks.

Khannie

grandmaster wrote: »

Could I just add it dry to my cereal, mix everything all up with the yoghurt and have it that way?

You sure can. It might make your yoghurt a bit thick. Consider adding a smidge of milk to counter it if that happens.

TommyKnocker

Hi Grandmaster

No expert here, but here is my opinion for what it's worth.

A protein shake is a good option after a hard workout, as your body will require the nutrients to help with recovery and muscle growth/repair. Mixing your whey with water makes for faster absorption then if milk is used. I also include glucose in my PWO shake to create an insulin spike and creatine and glutamine.

Taking a whey shake after your workout when your goal is to lose body fat is still ok. You just need to count the calories provided by the shake into your overall daily requirements.

I am currently trying to gain some lean weight (Kevpants will love this ). I am using a high protein, low carb, moderate fat diet, the breakdown of which is approx 45% daily calories from protein, 25% daily calories from carbs and 35% daily calories from healthy fats.

I take a scoop of whey at around 09:00 in work with creatine & glutamine mixed with milk. I take another scoop of whey mixed again with milk at around 16:30 before I leave work to head for the gym, and after my workout I have 2 scoops of whey, 2 scoops of glucose, 5g creatine and 5g glutamine mixed with water.

When I get home (which can be around 21:30), I will have a dinner with usually some kind of lean protein (meat/fish) and and a large portion veg (no starchy carbs).

No matter whether I am trying to gain weight or loose fat, my protein intake remains constant and I adjust the carb/fat ratios to suit my goal. I count the calories provided by the whey and glucose into my daily allowance, so they are not extra calories, so they don't mess up my goals.

This works for me.

So IMHO if you are only going to take whey once a day, then it will probably do you more benefit after your workout in a shake. But if you are going to add it to your breakfast, then you might need a little more liquid then just a yogurt or your breakfast might end up being kind of stodgy. Though you might get away with adding a little water or another yogurt (remember to include the calories of the extra yogurt in your daily calorie calculations if used).


Best Regards,

M

Khannie

B-Builder wrote: »

A protein shake is a good option after a hard workout, as your body will require the nutrients to help with recovery and muscle growth/repair. Mixing your whey with water makes for faster absorption then if milk is used. I also include glucose in my PWO shake to create an insulin spike and creatine and glutamine.

Taking a whey shake after your workout when your goal is to lose body fat is still ok. You just need to count the calories provided by the shake into your overall daily requirements.

Yeah, I would +1 this. As long as you count the calories, some whey PWO can be very beneficial overall, even during times of fat loss.

Transform

post current diet in detail please

BraziliaNZ

personally i dont think it's necessary for someone just trying to slim down and get in decent shape. I don't take any supplements and still can lift heavy enough. Waste of money unless you're hardcore in my opinion.

G-Money

Transform wrote: »

post current diet in detail please

Already have in the Fitness log section.

G-Money

I might give this idea a miss. It was something that occurred to me and I was just wondering about it is all.

rubadub

Whey is just another food, nothing magical, not a drug -just treat it like any other food. As mentioned there is not need for it to be "extra calories", it is just caloires like all the rest, count it with them. I like strawberry whey, cold milk & oats, nice & thick and the protein is very filling.

I actually like the taste of whey, many here might not particularly like tuna but eat it and so it could be described as a supplement in the same category as whey being eaten "unordinarily".

I also mix whey with sugar free jelly to make a mousse

Brian?

It doesn't really answer your question, but I add chocolate flavour whey to my porridge. It's only lovely.

G-Money

I already have a tub of strawberry whey protein and a mate got me a bag bag of vanilla whey protein.

VinnyTGM

The whey protein alone won't put on fat.

celestial

Steer clear of whey protein unless it's the unflavoured kind, especially if you're after fat loss - the strawberry/chocolate stuff is full of rubbish like artificial flavours, aspartame, sugar and a whole list of other preservatives etc.

Roper

Can I just say that low fat yoghurt mixed with gojiberries and whey protein sounds like a meal you'd have to eat for losing a bet... and and and if the alternative forfeit would be to lick sweat out of your training partner's armpit, I'd have to think long and hard about which one I'd do.

TommyKnocker

Roper wrote: »

Can I just say that low fat yoghurt mixed with gojiberries and whey protein sounds like a meal you'd have to eat for losing a bet... and and and if the alternative forfeit would be to lick sweat out of your training partner's armpit, I'd have to think long and hard about which one I'd do.

LOL :D:D:D

However, Personally if I was given the choice between a 2lb tub of natural yogurt mixed with goji berries and whey powder and a big mac meal as a way to help gain weight, I'd have no hesitation. Where's my spoon, bring on the yogurt

M

Vampireskiss

There is nothing about whey protein that makes it a neccessity for building muscle its just powdered food, you would get the same benefit from eating a dinner with a chicken breast or a steak,good nutrition is what gives people results and protein itself should be in every meal not just the one post workout, where whey proteins main purpose lies is in convienence

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

Steer clear of whey protein unless it's the unflavoured kind, especially if you're after fat loss

Why is this type of **** allowed on this board? the amount of mis information on the board is beyond belief

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

Why is this type of **** allowed on this board? the amount of mis information on the board is beyond belief

Mis-information? Why do elaborate sir.

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

Mis-information? Why do elaborate sir.

Steer clear of whey protein unless it's the unflavoured kind, especially if you're after fat loss

Firstly what has the flavour/non flavour aspect got to do with weight loss?

As below.....

Flavoured my protein impact blend http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-supplies/flavoured-protein/impact-blend/
For a 50 g serving
Energy 196.0cal
Protein (as-is) 38.8g
Fat 3.5g
Carbohydrates 3.0g

Impact unflavoured whey http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-supplies/unflavoured-protein/impact-whey-protein-%28unflavoured%29/
For a 50g serving
Energy 196.66.0cal
Protein (as-is) 39.3g
Fat 3.5g
Carbohydrates 3.0g

wow? they are same surprise surprise!

Secondly he should avoid whey protein if trying for fat loss? why dont you justify your reasoning?

Khannie

john_cappa wrote: »

Why is this type of **** allowed on this board? the amount of mis information on the board is beyond belief

Here....will you relax. If you've a problem with a post, use the report post function please.

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

Steer clear of whey protein unless it's the unflavoured kind, especially if you're after fat loss

Firstly what has the flavour/non flavour aspect got to do with weight loss?

As below.....

Flavoured my protein impact blend http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-supplies/flavoured-protein/impact-blend/
For a 50 g serving
Energy 196.0cal
Protein (as-is) 38.8g
Fat 3.5g
Carbohydrates 3.0g

Impact unflavoured whey http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-supplies/unflavoured-protein/impact-whey-protein-%28unflavoured%29/
For a 50g serving
Energy 196.66.0cal
Protein (as-is) 39.3g
Fat 3.5g
Carbohydrates 3.0g

wow? they are same surprise surprise!

Secondly he should avoid whey protein if trying for fat loss? why dont you justify your reasoning?

They are the same are they?! Clever man! Before you go referring to what I've posted as '*****' you should probably look to back it up with your own reasoning - otherwise it makes you look like you're just looking to shoot your mouth off.

Here we go then - here's the reasoning that you want, and funny isn't how out of among the hundreds of viewers of this thread absolutely no-one else asked for it, wonder why?

Ingredients:

Flavoured whey: Impact Blend® (Impact Whey Protein® and Impact Whey Isolate®), Cocoa Powder (chocolate flavours only), Flavouring, Citric Acid (berry flavours only), Maltodextrin (chocolate flavours only), Sucralose®, Colouring (Quinoline & Sunset Yellow [banana flavour only], Carmosine [raspberry flavour only] Cochineal Red A [strawberry flavour only]).


Unflavoured whey: Undenatured Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Lecithin (instantising agent [a very small amount is added]).


Now, would you like me to spell it out a bit further for you or is that enough?

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

They are the same are they?! Clever man! Before you go referring to what I've posted as '*****' you should probably look to back it up with your own reasoning - otherwise it makes you look like you're just looking to shoot your mouth off.

Here we go then - here's the reasoning that you want, and funny isn't how out of among the hundreds of viewers of this thread absolutely no-one else asked for it, wonder why?

Ingredients:

Flavoured whey: Impact Blend® (Impact Whey Protein® and Impact Whey Isolate®), Cocoa Powder (chocolate flavours only), Flavouring, Citric Acid (berry flavours only), Maltodextrin (chocolate flavours only), Sucralose®, Colouring (Quinoline & Sunset Yellow [banana flavour only], Carmosine [raspberry flavour only] Cochineal Red A [strawberry flavour only]).


Unflavoured whey: Undenatured Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Lecithin (instantising agent [a very small amount is added]).


Now, would you like me to spell it out a bit further for you or is that enough?

Please spell it out......what has the above "explanation" got to do with fat loss?

And why should the OP avoid whey protein if he want fat loss?

Khannie

Lads, I'm supposed to be relaxing here. If you can't be civil I'm gonna start handing out infractions.

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

Please spell it out......what has the above "explanation" got to do with fat loss?

And why should the OP avoid whey protein if he want fat loss?

Because a calorie is not just a calorie. The amount of sugar, artificial or natural, plus other ingredients, can have an impact on how a particular food or drink on the body. Just look at the list of junk ingredients in the flavoured whey (maltodextrin, sucralose etc etc - sugar sugar and more sugar. The OP is better off focusing on natural foods if he wants to help ensure fat loss conditions are optimal.

It's funny how everyone goes on about staying away from artificial, unprocessed foods on here when your average protein shake falls squarely into that bracket.

ragg

but isn't the shake the necessary "evil", so to speak - you want the quick protein hit and you want in the window when its absorbtion is going to be highest. This is to ensure that you get most bang for buck, PWO.

IMO the worst kind of processed food is processed carbs, trans fats and refined sugars, you'd have to be shopping in holland and barrett if you are getting that in your protein shakes

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

Because a calorie is not just a calorie. The amount of sugar, artificial or natural, plus other ingredients, can have an impact on how a particular food or drink on the body. Just look at the list of junk ingredients in the flavoured whey (maltodextrin, sucralose etc etc - sugar sugar and more sugar. The OP is better off focusing on natural foods if he wants to help ensure fat loss conditions are optimal.

It's funny how everyone goes on about staying away from artificial, unprocessed foods on here when your average protein shake falls squarely into that bracket.

The malto is in a micro amount! Micro! Would have no measurable impact on weightloss! The other ingredients would have zero impact on weight loss!

Dont use whey if you want to lose fat is rubbish and sounds very much like a "a friend of mine got very fat using whey shakes" type story.

If the OP wants to lose weight it is simple.

Keep protein high (be that from a handy whey shake or from a breast a chicken it doesnt really matter)
Have an adequate fat intake
Less carbs
More exercise.

To make a statement like "dont use whey, especially flavoured if you want fat loss" and then try to justify it with what you have written above is misinforming.

Also justifying it as the "hundreds" of other people didnt pull you on it is. They didnt pull you on it as they either didnt know any better/couldnt be arsed. Or maybe now them "hundreds" believe they shouldnt "use whey, especially flavoured if you want fat loss" as that is what they read?

john_cappa

Khannie wrote: »

Here....will you relax. If you've a problem with a post, use the report post function please.

Fair dues.

Apologies if i broke any rules

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

The malto is in a micro amount! Micro! Would have no measurable impact on weightloss! The other ingredients would have zero impact on weight loss!

Dont use whey if you want to lose fat is rubbish and sounds very much like a "a friend of mine got very fat using whey shakes" type story.

If the OP wants to lose weight it is simple.

Keep protein high (be that from a handy whey shake or from a breast a chicken it doesnt really matter)
Have an adequate fat intake
Less carbs
More exercise.

To make a statement like "dont use whey, especially flavoured if you want fat loss" and then try to justify it with what you have written above is misinforming.

Also justifying it as the "hundreds" of other people didnt pull you on it is. They didnt pull you on it as they either didnt know any better/couldnt be arsed. Or maybe now them "hundreds" believe they shouldnt "use whey, especially flavoured if you want fat loss" as that is what they read?

So you're saying that my advice to someone to not consume a highly processed, man-made, factory produced, artificial product laden with artificial colourings and flavourings is 'rubbish'. Is that what you're saying? How about soft drinks - would you say it's rubbish to advise not taking soft drinks if you're after fat loss?

If you're going to make sweeping statements like

'the malto is in a micro amount! Micro! Would have no measurable impact on weightloss! The other ingredients would have zero impact on weight loss!

and then claim that people are going to be 'misinformed' then back your claims up with appropriate references and analysis. I'd love to see how you can prove that they will have 'no measurable impact on fat loss' - have you done a study? It's not about the amount in the product, it still has a physiological effect - there is emerging evidence (and existing anecdotal evidence) that artificial sweeteners for example have been known to stimulate and skew appetite, making people hungrier than they would otherwise be - not surprising since these substances are bound to interfere with your natural make-up.

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/NRR/NRR18_01/S0954422405000053a.pdf&code=6ec2a6bb8c5ee9ec417e3dfa463249ff

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96849.php (published in the February 2008 issue of Behavioral Neuroscience, a journal of the American Psychological Association (APA).)

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=12961.0

Am I saying that taking a protein shake is gonna make someone not lose weight? NO. Am I saying that an unflavoured variety is preferable, and that avoiding artificial sweeteners and artificial products in general is good for fat loss? YES.

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

So you're saying that my advice to someone to not consume a highly processed, man-made, factory produced, artificial product laden with artificial colourings and flavourings is 'rubbish'. Is that what you're saying? How about soft drinks - would you say it's rubbish to advise not taking soft drinks if you're after fat loss?

A truely ridiculous comparison above really

If you're going to make sweeping statements like

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/NRR/NRR18_01/S0954422405000053a.pdf&code=6ec2a6bb8c5ee9ec417e3dfa463249ff

Link broken

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96849.php (published in the February 2008 issue of Behavioral Neuroscience, a journal of the American Psychological Association (APA).)

Artificial Sweeteners Could Make You Gain Weight
Important word above is could! There is no real evidence. We are talking about rats who ate more possibly due to the sweetner. Important question are however......Were the rats trying to lose weight?? .....did they have self control to stop eating?

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=12961.0

From the above link, your link

A spokesman for the British Nutrition Foundation said the study findings were "interesting", but did not prove that artificial sweeteners could be counterproductive in dieting humans.

"This needs far more research - as studies in humans have shown that low-calorie sweeteners can help people lose weight."

so there are studies saying you are wrong also?

Am I saying that taking a protein shake is gonna make someone not lose weight? NO. Am I saying that an unflavoured variety is preferable, and that avoiding artificial sweeteners and artificial products in general is good for fat loss? YES.

What you said implied that flavoured whey is to be avoided for those pursuing fat loss which IMO is far from true

Either way this is going no where and has gone OT apologies to the OP

In bold!

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

In bold!

imo picking out and isolating quotes to suit yourself is lazy and weak when it comes to arguing your point.

My point is that choosing a product without artificial sweeteners is preferable to one with sweeteners, and that avoiding artificial rubbish is a good idea when you're trying to lose fat. You haven't disagreed with me anyway which is good for anyone reading.

This is way OT as you rightly said and getting tedious so we can leave it at that.

drdeadlift

Isnt whey isolate helpful when trying to loose the chub and build the muscle or maybe even bcaa+oj after training.

johnn

This thread has confused me a little bit, I've lost a good bit of weight since moving onto a decent free-weights programme in the gym after being on the weights machines for ages & now I'm just looking to shift that extra bit of fat to see definition around the abs etc.

I have been taking the diet Maximuscle strawberry flavoured shakes post-work out for some protein, Am I to believe this will stunt fat loss?

TommyKnocker

Hi

Dropping body fat is a matter of taking in less calories than you expend in a day. So if you are counting the calories provided by your protein shake into your daily calorie count and running a moderate calorie deficit, then you should drop body fat.

Best Regards,

M

john_cappa

johnn wrote: »

This thread has confused me a little bit, I've lost a good bit of weight since moving onto a decent free-weights programme in the gym after being on the weights machines for ages & now I'm just looking to shift that extra bit of fat to see definition around the abs etc.

I have been taking the diet Maximuscle strawberry flavoured shakes post-work out for some protein, Am I to believe this will stunt fat loss?

No as BB said above it is all about calories consumed vrs calories expended.

So you have lost alot of weight since you moved onto a decent free weights program? do you mean you have lost weight or simple lost fat and perhaps replaced it with muscle due to you new training plan?

Also you dont mention cardio? do you do any?

Hanley

I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread. Talk about sweating the small details. Does anyone REALLY (and I mean in real life, not just theoretically) think the difference between flavoured and unflavoured whey is going to be anything other than marginal, at worst??

You can throw out figures and studies, but the real life issue is that unflavoured whey;
1) tastes sh*t - so ppl are less likely to stick with drinking it
2) isn't widely available

oh and then there's the whole issue of how pretty much every bodybuilder in the entire world diets on flavoured protein and seems to manage ok when it cones to weight loss.

It really is becoming pointless posting on this forum when there's so many armchair quarter backs confusing newbs with sh*t that doesn't really matter.

Wanna lose weight?

1) Concentrate on getting stronger, lift 3-4x per week
2) Do 1 or 2 HIIT style sesions per week, 1 or 2 LIT sessions per week
3) bodyweight in Lbs x 12-13 = total kcals, split it 40:30:30 protein:carbs:fat and spread it evenly over 6 meals
4) do the above consistently (ie85-90%) of the time for 3 months
5) reap the rewards

Hell, even that over complicates matters. Just eat less and move more.

Worrying about the effect of artificial sweeteners in protein when it comes to weight loss?? Is that what this forum is becoming?? Jesus.

celestial

Hanley wrote: »

I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread. Talk about sweating the small details. Does anyone REALLY (and I mean in real life, not just theoretically) think the difference between flavoured and unflavoured whey is going to be anything other than marginal, at worst??

You can throw out figures and studies, but the real life issue is that unflavoured whey;
1) tastes sh*t - so ppl are less likely to stick with drinking it
2) isn't widely available

oh and then there's the whole issue of how pretty much every bodybuilder in the entire world diets on flavoured protein and seems to manage ok when it cones to weight loss.

It really is becoming pointless posting on this forum when there's so many armchair quarter backs confusing newbs with sh*t that doesn't really matter.

Wanna lose weight?

1) Concentrate on getting stronger, lift 3-4x per week
2) Do 1 or 2 HIIT style sesions per week, 1 or 2 LIT sessions per week
3) bodyweight in Lbs x 12-13 = total kcals, split it 40:30:30 protein:carbs:fat and spread it evenly over 6 meals
4) do the above consistently (ie85-90%) of the time for 3 months
5) reap the rewards

Hell, even that over complicates matters. Just eat less and move more.

Worrying about the effect of artificial sweeteners in protein when it comes to weight loss?? Is that what this forum is becoming?? Jesus.

After seeing the 'confused' post, I was going to reply again on this but you beat me to it. I agree with all of the above and hell it's what I go on about all the time anyway - lift heavy, eat right, do cardio.

I got roped into an argument (slow day) over trivial details - I would be the first to say - and always do - if you wanna lose weight keep it simple and get the basics right and don't overthink it. I still stand by choosing something in its natural state over something processed/flavoured etc - but obviously this is a far more minor detail and I should have highlighted that.

john_cappa

i was a bit cranky yesterday lol! so sorry!

celestial

john_cappa wrote: »

i was a bit cranky yesterday lol! so sorry!

Me too brother!

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

?

1) Concentrate on getting stronger, lift 3-4x per week
2) Do 1 or 2 HIIT style sesions per week, 1 or 2 LIT sessions per week
3) bodyweight in Lbs x 12-13 = total kcals, split it 40:30:30 protein:carbs:fat and spread it evenly over 6 meals
4) do the above consistently (ie85-90%) of the time for 3 months
5) reap the rewards

Hell, even that over complicates matters.

Yes, Yes it does.

johnn

john_cappa wrote: »

No as BB said above it is all about calories consumed vrs calories expended.

So you have lost alot of weight since you moved onto a decent free weights program? do you mean you have lost weight or simple lost fat and perhaps replaced it with muscle due to you new training plan?

Also you dont mention cardio? do you do any?

Yeah sorry i prob didn't clarify there. I think I weigh in just slightly less than I did before, I am 5,9" and weigh 74kgs. But I was a little chubby but have slimmed down considerably since joining the jim, & my arms and chest have put on a bit more muscle since i started a free-weights programme.

I play football for a team twice a week, and usually get in 2-3 sessions in the gym as well, gym sessions consist of 10 mins on cross-trainer, bench press, dumbell work for biceps & triceps as well as curls with the EZ bar. I use a lat pull-down and do single arm rows for my back, then a decent bit of ab work planks etc. finishing with 10 mins walking on the stairs at a fairly intense level. so i think its my diet that is stopping me from getting where i want as i feel im putting the work in excercise-wise.

celestial

johnn wrote: »

Yeah sorry i prob didn't clarify there. I think I weigh in just slightly less than I did before, I am 5,9" and weigh 74kgs. But I was a little chubby but have slimmed down considerably since joining the jim, & my arms and chest have put on a bit more muscle since i started a free-weights programme.

I play football for a team twice a week, and usually get in 2-3 sessions in the gym as well, gym sessions consist of 10 mins on cross-trainer, bench press, dumbell work for biceps & triceps as well as curls with the EZ bar. I use a lat pull-down and do single arm rows for my back, then a decent bit of ab work planks etc. finishing with 10 mins walking on the stairs at a fairly intense level. so i think its my diet that is stopping me from getting where i want as i feel im putting the work in excercise-wise.

You don't mention working your legs at all? You will get the best results for fat loss with a full body programme which will get your heart pumping and keep the intensity of your session high.

As regards the diet, you are as only as lean as your diet allows. I'd post up your diet so we can pick holes in it

sfag

celestial wrote: »

Steer clear of whey protein unless it's the unflavoured kind, especially if you're after fat loss - the strawberry/chocolate stuff is full of rubbish like artificial flavours, aspartame, sugar and a whole list of other preservatives etc.

the maount of flavouring used in whey is generally tiny - a few grams - hardly any calories. Plus sugar has its place post workout.