Yet another "Is this bike any good" thread...

colblimp

I'm looking at this bike as a possible first road bike for myself: http://www.theedge-sports.com/acatalog/Section_CU-RDPELOT.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this would be a good first purchase? Is the price competitive? Is the frame of a high enough quality that I could upgrade bits and pieces further down the road? (See what I did there?!! )

I should also add that the shop is local to me and will include a comprehensive bike fit.

Lumen

Looks lovely, I would.

petethedrummer

Bit cheaper here but limited sizes.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44407

Cube are good bikes. Cyclesuperstore are selling them now too, if you want to buy from a bricks and mortar shop.

colblimp

petethedrummer wrote: »

Bit cheaper here but limited sizes.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44407

Cube are good bikes. Cyclesuperstore are selling them now too, if you want to buy from a bricks and mortar shop.

Granted it's €6ish cheaper from CRC, but as it's my first bike, shouldn't I have a proper fit?

As for Cycle Superstore, it's a lot cheaper from there, but you then have to factor in the cost of getting up to Dublin and back. As I don't drive, it could prove more expensive than getting it from The Edge.

Lumen, as you said you would, I will.

Lumen

colblimp wrote: »

Lumen, as you said you would, I will.

I feel I should blather on about 9 speeds and ugly Planet-Xs, but I can't be bothered.

It's white. It's a respectable make. Do it.

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

I feel I should blather on about 9 speeds and ugly Planet-Xs, but I can't be bothered.

I can be bothered and usually am.

I had that bike. Or at least the same frame. A 2008 Cube Streamer it was - basically the same bike but with ultegra and with Shimano WH-r550 wheels...

I put a lot of miles on it, did a load of sportives and even took it to the alps where we struggled up the Galibier together. I have fond memories of that cube.

...a year later I bought an ugly planet-X frame and moved the ultegra over to it and bought new wheels. The cube frame is now sitting in the shed asking to be built up or sold, whichever. Carbon-envy is a powerful thing. That said, I love riding the px, looking at it? eh, not so much. In every respect (other than aethetics) it's a better bike.

The cube is a very good bike though, but I hated the r550 wheels (they're r500 on the Peloton - I don't know how different they are). They were heavy and the front was way too flexy. Any climbing out of the saddle would cause brake-rub unless the callipers were slacked off quite a bit, which I dislike. I did get (slightly) better wheels and that improved things drastically. The r500 might be much better though, I don't know.

If you want white (and really like washing your bike), I'd spend an extra few quid and get a white planet-X with new ultegra.

Is it cyclesuperstore? I'm not sure that their fit procedure is much more than making sure you can reach the pedals...

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Is it cyclesuperstore? I'm not sure that their fit procedure is much more than making sure you can reach the pedals...

colblimp wrote: »

As for Cycle Superstore, it's a lot cheaper from there, but you then have to factor in the cost of getting up to Dublin and back. As I don't drive, it could prove more expensive than getting it from The Edge.

I agree than the PX is a better bike, but it's likely to be €1250 built and shipped (without random discounts), so at 40% more it should be better.

JacksonHeightsOwn

the superstore now do proper fitting with a video camera alright, and some new cleat fitting (no idea how that works)

blorg

I would +1 what Tom said, the Planet X is a lot better. The £999 Ultegra (€1,250 built and shipped) is the best value IMHO but they have another for £899 built and shipped (€1,000) which is still a much better bike.

Of course you don't get the fitting etc. with this but I think their size guides are reasonably reliable, only real issue then is if you would have to change the stem.

horizon26

Brilliant value that bike blorg.

rflynnr

Astonishing value indeed and now I'm seriously tempted. I mean how much change out of £899 would you have if you just bought the full Ultegra groupset? One word of caution though: I notice scrolling down through the options that some of the basic (i.e. no additional cost) options are OUT OF STOCK. Does that mean waiting until they're back or is that PX saying "this is what we have, take (and pay for) the upgrade or leave it"?

IM0

Its your first road bike Id go for it in your position.

blorg

rflynnr wrote: »

Astonishing value indeed and now I'm seriously tempted. I mean how much change out of £899 would you have if you just bought the full Ultegra groupset? One word of caution though: I notice scrolling down through the options that some of the basic (i.e. no additional cost) options are OUT OF STOCK. Does that mean waiting until they're back or is that PX saying "this is what we have, take (and pay for) the upgrade or leave it"?

Note the £899 is NOT a full Ultegra groupset, the £999 one is. But the 899 has build and delivery included... personally I would go for the £999 full Ultegra and get Mr Skeffington to build it, it is worth the extra few bob for full Ultegra. But if you are budget constrained the £899 offer is certainly better than the Cube and comes with Ultegra shifters and derailleurs. With regard to the out of stock, that is the way they work, they have options and stuff comes in or out of stock. I was waiting on stuff for another bike and then the entire offer went and I missed it entirely. Looking at the £899 offer as far as I can make out you can build the entire bike up at £899 with 172.5 or 175mm cranks, the only crunch point is if you need 170mm cranks which they are out of.

ROK ON

Just on the colour issue. I have a beautiful white bike. I love it. I would never again buy a white bike.
Our climate is completely unsuitable for light coloured bikes.
The worst think to shift off the bike are the bits of tar road grit that get on the frame. You wouldn't know it with a black bike.
Other than that I have no opinion on this bike.

colblimp

Hmmm, some interesting points made there.

I'm almost embarrassed to say that €1000 is over my budget - I can only just scrape together €899, and that's at a push. Granted, the PX is a lot better bike for not much more money, but I just can't stretch that far. I'd also be really scared of getting a bike that doesn't fit - I know that fit is really important in a road bike so I think, just for my piece of mind, I need to get fitted for whatever bike I buy.

@ Tom, I'd be getting the Cube from The Edge Sports in Cork, which is a specialist tri shop that do 'proper' bike fit thingies... Mind you, Blorg has got me thinking now about the PX, but no, I just don't have the cash for it.

tyler71

The Cube has a triple on it from what I can see and I think for your first road bike, a triple is the way to go- either that or a compact, and Planet X don't do compacts on carbon frames. Maybe after a season you'll get embarrassed about your granny ring but you'll be damn glad of it at the start making it up those hills. Bit more fiddly to tune after the cables start stretching but the guy in the Edge has a good rep and seems very knowledgeable. And getting the right frame size at the start with a proper fitting is worth an awful lot.

blorg

PX do compacts, I got one myself for my winter trainer.

I would second that advice though, go compact (preferably) or triple if it is your first road bike, or anyway. I would only use a standard double for racing.

blorg

And get the PX, if you don't you will only regret it forever, or at least until you end up replacing the frame with a PX. Wait another month and save the extra €100.

tyler71

blorg wrote: »

PX do compacts, I got one myself for my winter trainer.

That's interesting, I was trying to get one recently and they told me no can do - what model was it?

blorg

tyler71 wrote: »

blorg wrote: »

PX do compacts, I got one myself for my winter trainer.

That's interesting, I was trying to get one recently and they told me no can do - what model was it?

I got this one which they still seem to have compact options on for no extra money. It is an unbelievably fantastic bike for the money, if you are thinking about it I wouldn't hesitate. I was waiting on the bikescheme in work for their £999 timetrial bike but now their cheapest one is £1699 (up £200 since this afternoon.)

colblimp

tyler71 wrote: »

The Cube has a triple on it from what I can see and I think for your first road bike, a triple is the way to go- either that or a compact, and Planet X don't do compacts on carbon frames. Maybe after a season you'll get embarrassed about your granny ring but you'll be damn glad of it at the start making it up those hills. Bit more fiddly to tune after the cables start stretching but the guy in the Edge has a good rep and seems very knowledgeable. And getting the right frame size at the start with a proper fitting is worth an awful lot.

What's all this about a triple being a granny ring? I don't think I can buy a bike without a proper fit, if I'm honest, I think you're right.

BTW, are you around for the Christmas run on Saturday morning?

colblimp

blorg wrote: »

And get the PX, if you don't you will only regret it forever, or at least until you end up replacing the frame with a PX. Wait another month and save the extra €100.

Is it not the case that when, not if, I fall off the bike there's a good chance of a carbon frame cracking? Also, with regard to me regretting not getting the PX, what I've never had, I won't miss - apparently.

blorg

No, carbon isn't fragile in that way, it is generally stronger than any other material for a given weight. As you say, if you never have you don't miss... but others here have "had" and upgraded, and would not want to go back.

tyler71

Don't get me wrong, my old bike has a triple and that inner ring got me up some killer hills during races that better cyclists had to walk - it's just not cool to admit it. Mind you, somebody said to me once that after a race people ask you what time you did, not what gear you used. Won't be at the run Saturday, off visiting rellies for Christmas, best of luck.

Can't believe I missed that detail on the Planet X!

Lumen

niceonetom wrote:

I put a lot of miles on it, did a load of sportives and even took it to the alps where we struggled up the Galibier together. I have fond memories of that cube.

I thought I'd just re-post that, since the point got lost in the noise of the Planet-X fanfest.

The Cube is nicer looking, and cheaper, and will apparently be properly fitted, and have the support of a local shop for servicing.

On the other hand, the Planet-X is ugly and made of plastic. But it has an extra rear cog, and is a little lighter.

colblimp

Lumen wrote: »

I thought I'd just re-post that, since the point got lost in the noise of the Planet-X fanfest.

The Cube is nicer looking, and cheaper, and will apparently be properly fitted, and have the support of a local shop for servicing.

On the other hand, the Planet-X is ugly and made of plastic. But it has an extra rear cog, and is a little lighter.

Oh, believe me, I hadn't forgotten about the Cube and how much Tom rated it. Now, talk to me about Tiagra...

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

I thought I'd just re-post that, since the point got lost in the noise of the Planet-X fanfest.

The Cube is nicer looking, and cheaper, and will apparently be properly fitted, and have the support of a local shop for servicing.

On the other hand, the Planet-X is ugly and made of plastic. But it has an extra rear cog, and is a little lighter.

I'm the only one here who has knowledge of both bikes and my preference is clear. The P-X is a much better bike. Much. It's twice the bike for only a little more money. You may call that a fanfest if you must but I think that's a little unfair. So I'll advocate it once more.

Is this ugly? If you're going to spend your evenings evening road crud off a white frame with a toothbrush it should be that one, not some alu bone shaker (yes, the cube's ride is harsh and buzzy compared to the P-X, I should have mentioned that sooner). An "extra rear cog" also comes with superior shifters, dérailleurs and cranks and is from the new generation of shimano products with the hidden gear cabling. If aesthetics is your thing, that's worth something. For build and set-up, well Mr. Skeff's reputation is prodigious at this stage.

If you buy the cube you won't miss what you never had, you'll covet what others do. We regret most the deeds we did not do.

Colblimp, what height are you?

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

I'm the only one here who has knowledge of both bikes and my preference is clear. The P-X is a much better bike. Much. It's twice the bike for only a little more money. You may call that a fanfest if you must but I think that's a little unfair. So I'll advocate it once more.

Fair enough, I misunderstood your post.

The standard issue Ultegra one is still 40% more expensive than the Cube, according to my calcs.

colblimp wrote: »

€1000 is over my budget - I can only just scrape together €899, and that's at a push.

I'm just trying to avoid bankrupting the man. :pac:

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

I'm just trying to avoid bankrupting the man. :pac:

You know that's not how this works.

petethedrummer

colblimp wrote: »

Granted it's €6ish cheaper from CRC, but as it's my first bike, shouldn't I have a proper fit?

It was definitely cheaper than that when I looked yesterday...maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.

colblimp

That's a beautiful bike, Tom - total pornography. BTW, I'm 5'11" tall.

I might as well also point out that I'm currently unemployed, so you can see why I can't go to €1000. However, if the general consensus is I should go for the PX, then I don't mind hanging on a bit longer in order for me to find the dosh...

tyler71

Sorry to go back over old ground again, but with Planet X you have to specify everything yourself - this is a harrowing business unless you've been measured correctly which is an education in itself. Could you say right now what your ideal stem length or crank length is? Or even your frame size, given it's your first road bike? Go to a shop and they'll advise you, Planet X will just send you (a great bike at an excellent price undoubtedly) exactly what you ask them to, but at least you'll have a bit more come back with the shop it's not quite right. Everything that's been said about the ride being better on a carbon than on an aluminium is correct, but getting your fit right first over-rides everything else. You could go get a proper fit (about 120EU last I heard) and then you'd be confident ordering over the net, but you need to build that into your costing.

colblimp

tyler71 wrote: »

Sorry to go back over old ground again, but with Planet X you have to specify everything yourself - this is a harrowing business unless you've been measured correctly which is an education in itself. Could you say right now what your ideal stem length or crank length is? Or even your frame size, given it's your first road bike? Go to a shop and they'll advise you, Planet X will just send you (a great bike at an excellent price undoubtedly) exactly what you ask them to, but at least you'll have a bit more come back with the shop it's not quite right. Everything that's been said about the ride being better on a carbon than on an aluminium is correct, but getting your fit right first over-rides everything else. You could go get a proper fit (about 120EU last I heard) and then you'd be confident ordering over the net, but you need to build that into your costing.

I thought as much, I've sort of sussed out fit is really important. I'm a bit concerned that Tom said the Cube is a poor ride, I'll want to be spending hours on the bike in comfort, not wanting to get off after 10 minutes... Does a carbon fork not mean anything?

papac

Imo fit is very important. However if you measure youself correctly it should not be too hard to order the correct frame size online.

Fit is a bit subjective anyway so you may find -with experience that the way they set you up in a shop is not ideal for you personally.(Again just my opinion). As you cycle more and get fitter or more/less flexible you may change postition considerably.

I think a good experienced club cyclist could help you find good postition on a Planetx if you had the right frame size to begin with-its not rocket science and it was done that way for decades. The x is twice the bike for a bit more money imo. Those Shimano 500 wheels are ropey I reckon and if you have to change em you'll have spent the price of the x.

EDIT. If you can find good basic postition yourself (and I believe anyone can with a bit of guidance) you could always invest in a session at Irishfit later when you are fitter and you know you are serious about cycling..

colblimp

So at 5'11" tall, would I need a 56 or a 58 frame? What about all the other 'bits' for the bike? As a newbie, the PX site seems a bit involved and complex...

lescol

Get out the tape measure and away you go:- http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO

Let us know your results.

I tried it and it worked out to be pretty much as I'd set up through trial and error.

The PX is a lovely bike, light and lively, PX are easy to deal with and will help get your bike right.

Paul Kiernan

Assuming you're a reasonably normal shape you'll want the Large size frame, 172.5 Compact crank and about a 90mm stem. Getting a 170 or 175 crank isn't going to matter an awful lot, just make sure you get a Compact (50-34). Stems are cheap so if you really feel you got it wrong you can change the stem at a later date. I'd avoid the Shimano wheels too, the Planet-x are better. Unless you weigh about 100kg you can choose either the Model B or Model C wheels. Handlebars you'd probably want a 40 or 42 but it not going to make a huge difference. I got a 42 (I'm 6'1"") and now think I'd prefer a 40 but I won't lose sleep over it.

papac

Assuming you're a reasonably normal shape you'll want the Large size frame, 172.5 Compact crank and about a 90mm stem. Getting a 170 or 175 crank isn't going to matter an awful lot, just make sure you get a Compact (50-34). Stems are cheap so if you really feel you got it wrong you can change the stem at a later date. I'd avoid the Shimano wheels too, the Planet-x are better. Unless you weigh about 100kg you can choose either the Model B or Model C wheels. Handlebars you'd probably want a 40 or 42 but it not going to make a huge difference. I got a 42 (I'm 6'1"") and now think I'd prefer a 40 but I won't lose sleep over it.

Thats about it I'd say. If you post your inseam we will know if you are a freak of nature and it might change things slightly. I'd err on the wide side with bars-no big deal though.
FWIW I think the biggest mistake noobs make is putting their bars too low-thats the racy look you get in pics. Leave em high and go down as you get stronger/flexible.My brother-in-law got sent home from a bike shop with his bars 5 inches below the seat and hated cycling for years cause it hurt his wrists and crotch.:mad::mad:

Edit. I see they are out of Model C wheels.I think they might be worth waiting for.I think a set of traditional 32 spoke wheels is a good place to start.If you buy a set of Sunday best wheels later these will always be a good repairable trainer.

colblimp

Hmmm, a lot of things to ponder. That measurement thing looks bloody complicated, it actually fills me with fear! You all make it sound so easy, yet there's so many options on the PX bike, I wouldn't know where to start. I'm going to have to find someone that knows all about it to help me measure and order, when I finally get the extra cash together!

If it has any bearing on anything, I weigh 67 kgs and I have a relatively normal body shape - I think! I'm trying to get my weight down further, possibly to 65 kgs if I can resist cakes, sweets and Christmas stuff in the next week! I should also point out that I am purchasing the bike in order for me to do triathlons and duathlons, I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

lescol

If you're 5' 11" of normal body shape the likelihood is you'll be OK with a PX large. I see that you're in Cork, if you can get to Kerry you're welcome to try out my PX, we would be roughly the same size. It's a large with 110 stem, 172.5 cranks.

papac

Lots of options but only a few you really need to think about. Get a good accurate inseam and take it from there.

Paul Kiernan

You have to bear in the mind that if you bought an off-the-shelf bike you would miss out on the opportunity of customising it.

For example, an equivalent Large size bike might come with 175mm cranks, a 110mm stem and 44cm bars so that someone of 6'2" would be comfortable on it. It would therefore be a bit of compromise for someone of 5'11" but certainly not a complete disaster. A good bike shop might decide to change the stem for you but not anything else. So this opportunity should be welcomed rather than viewed as a mind-boggling nightmare.

colblimp

That's a great offer Lescol, but I can't get to Kerry I'm afraid.

I totally take your point about having a customised bike, Paul - as a total newbie I'm just fearful of getting the wrong size. I think I've decided to go for the PX though, after viewing all the comments I don't think I'll get the wrong size, I just have to measure my inseam properly and then I'm away, correct?

Lumen

colblimp wrote: »

I think I've decided to go for the PX though, after viewing all the comments I don't think I'll get the wrong size, I just have to measure my inseam properly and then I'm away, correct?

I would size the bike by equivalent horizontal top tube length. I like the chart here, which uses inseam, height and shoe size. It will also recommend a stem length.

TBH, the Planet-X geometry means that you ought to just be able to use their height-based sizing chart. If you're between sizes then it gets a bit more complicated. Suggest you do the measurements (height and inseam) and post them here for double checking.

blorg

There are "standard" sizes for stem, cranks and bar width that bike manufacturers tend to spec on a given size of bike. Stem is probably the most important but it is cheap enough to change even after you get the bike. Bars are only slightly more expensive to swap but it is more involved job to remove the shifters and redo the bar tape. Cranks are very expensive to change but probably matter the least.

I am 6ft, 33.75" inseam and have a PX large with 110mm stem, 175mm cranks and 42cm wide bars. The cranks and bars chosen just based on what I have always used and am used to.

Best measure your shoulders but if don't 42cm is a safe enough bet for the bars, it is probably the most common width and tends to be specced on a wide range of bike sizes. The other issue beyond width (and it is a big one) is the shape of the drop, the reach and how deep the drop is. There are a dizzying number of combinations there. Of the options on the PX I would go for the Pro PLT Oversize Anodised Silver ANATOMIC 42 - I have these on another bike and they are very nice bars, quite light, a good ergo section that fits me and not too deep a drop. The shape is very similar to that Trek specs on its bikes, or did when I had them anyway, they may have changed. But bars are a personal thing and it can be impossible to figure out what suits you until you try a few.

Stem you probably want 90 or 100mm. More likely 100, you can pick up a 90 cheap if that doesn't work out.

Crank wise you are probably 172.5 or 175. Either will probably work fine.

niceonetom

for reference I'm also 6', but have only a 33" inseam. I also ride a L planet-x with a 110mm stem though I would have slightly less seatpost showing but no spacers under the stem, so my upper-body position must be fairly similar to blorg's. 172.5 cranks for me, though I'll consider going to 175 for my next set. 42cm bars.

The cube was a 58cm frame though if you look at their geometry you'll see it's actually a slightly short '58' with a equivalent TT length of about 56.5 (the PX is supposedly 57). Again 110mm stem. 175mm cranks. 42cm bars.

I slightly fear that 5'11" might be a little between sizes for the PX (next one down is 54cm, which would be too small). It depends on your proportions though. If you have a shortish leg and longish torso a bigger fit works better, long legs and a short reach means you might be in stubby stem land.

I also feel slightly guilty about saying the cube's ride is "harsh". I was the one being harsh there. A real estate agent would describe the ride as "communicative". It's certainly less plush than the carbon bike, but it not a bone-shaker and that stiffness doe mean it'll put the power down if you stand up and mash. It descends very well and is maybe more stable at high speed than the PX.

short circuit

After my 3rd bike, I have finally realised that if you are inbetween sizes .. go up a size ... This means you will have less seat post showing and will probably need less spacers under the stem.

Also, when you look at size increases, its usually by seat tube size ... but both the seat tube and the headtube stay somewhat parallel ... so the effective top tube size sees less of a difference than seat tube height.

The stem size between the 2 frames might not need you to go down by more than 20mm on the larger frame.

The one thing though is that you will probably need to move your saddle well forward or get a seat post with very little set back to get at roughly the knee over pedal spindle setup.

lukester

niceonetom wrote: »

I also feel slightly guilty about saying the cube's ride is "harsh". I was the one being harsh there. A real estate agent would describe the ride as "communicative".

I must be a real estate agent. I quite like the Cube's ride, even if it's a tad buzzy. The only carbon frames I can compare against are the Spesh Roubaix and Tarmac Pro, both of which I found a bit vague in comparison.

Having said that, next bike will probably be carbon, although I still toy with the idea of an S1.

papac

After my 3rd bike, I have finally realised that if you are inbetween sizes .. go up a size ... This means you will have less seat post showing and will probably need less spacers under the stem.

I agree with this and think that it is especially relevant to newer cyclists who can often benefit from a slightly higher bar position.

The one thing though is that you will probably need to move your saddle well forward or get a seat post with very little set back to get at roughly the knee over pedal spindle setup.

Depends on seat tube angle I would think.If the seat tube angle and the crank length remain the same then, for a given seat height, saddle setback to give KOPS will be the same. Seat tube length has no bearing on this.

colblimp

See now, it's starting to get a bit complicated with all the talk of stems, tubes, KOPS, posts, spacers, cranks and bars. I need an idiots guide about bikes so I can have a look and work out what on earth you good people are talking about!

All I want is a nice road bike that fits well, rides nice, looks amazing and doesn't cost the earth. I mean, how hard can it be?! :rolleyes::o:D

Lumen

colblimp wrote: »

See now, it's starting to get a bit complicated with all the talk of stems, tubes, KOPS, posts, spacers, cranks and bars.

Don't worry about any of that crap. Just post your measurements up and the hive-mind will size your bike for you.