Anyone Else Getting This Unnecessary Abuse?

macy9

Second time this month a middle aged woman has literally roared at me when my dog is urinating on a communal green. See, she's a female dog so she sits to urinate. Both times they've yelled at me ''are you going to clean up after that.'' The last time the woman beeped her horn at me in her parked car.

I explain that she's just urinating and both times they've tried to backtrack and said ''well I bet you don't have a bag to clean up after her''....and both times Ive produced a bio-degradable pooper-scooper bag. And both times I received no apology whatsoever.

What do they expect me to do? Put a cup underneath her when she urinates. Its 95% water!!!!

What irks me even more is that I see their neighbors out with their dogs without leads and not cleaning up after their dogs' feces.

Agggghhhhhh!

star-pants

It is unfortunate but an everyday occurance.
I've seen many people not cleaning up after their dogs. I personally always do.
One of mine stopped to wee (being a girl she sits) and some lady stood at her window watching (this is the grass outside your house beside the road), then came out to the porch, and the second we moved she came down to examine her grass.

Some people are just reallllly uppity. I can understand someone saying (if you walk away without cleaning) saying 'excuse me I think you forgot something' etc, because you should clean up. But yelling at you whilst your dog is going? I'd be annoyed too.

Top Dog

Yikes! Can't say I've ever had this happen. :eek:

Though once our older bitch comes out of season I'll be walking her with the younger bitch and since both squat I suppose I'd better be prepared just in case.

Though I always have my doggie bags in my pocket whenever out with the dogs - and regularly when without them too

I have had the odd person watch alright when either the dog or the bitch has been going poop, but I always clean up after them which I think probably surprises a lot of people who may be about to give out to me expecting me to walk away and leave it :P

Sigma Force

Can understand some people getting frustrated with dog poop everywhere but if she had the guts she'd of approached you instead of shouting like a coward from her car. Mind you perhaps it'll make her think twice before she does that again.

ghost_ie

This happened to me last week when a motorcyclist actually turned round, drove back to me and started roaring abuse at me shouting that I didn't clean up after my dogs. I showed him a full bag and told him that the dogs were female and one of them had just done a wee. He called me a liar and said that all dogs regardless of sex cocked their legs when weeing.

star-pants

^^ that chap on the bike just sounds like an idiot...
Though, in saying that, my older girl lifts one leg very slightly when peeing, it's rather funny, almost like a pinky finger up.

lrushe

[quote=star-pants;63535017
Though, in saying that, my older girl lifts one leg very slightly when peeing, it's rather funny, almost like a pinky finger up.[/quote]

My Chi does the same, she's a real little lady!!!!!!!!!!:D

tudlytops

same as happen to me and no, no apology when they see the poop bag, they just mumbled something and left.

A neigbour of mine got one of those chinchua dogs, now they are small and this one was only about 8 weeks old so even smaller, she brough the dog out side and this women started to shout, put that dog on a lead its dangerous he could bit someone.

i burst out laughing, this dog was no bigger then my hand.

Graces7

Actually, until my first dog, only a few years ago, I did not know that only male dogs cock their legs:) You only notice that!

But often the attack has nothing to do with the dog or you; is just aggression.

Stopped at a garage to buy coffee when moving house. Wee dog was in the back, in a nest of cushions.

A man came up and started threatening to report me for cruelty! Said the dog should be in a trailer on the back of the car.....

Just was havin a bad day? Told him to pick on someone his own size.

By then wee dog was barking because of his tone to me....

I had never seen such a trailer then; I have since and would never put wee dog in one.

But it is horrible when this happens.

tudlytops wrote: »

same as happen to me and no, no apology when they see the poop bag, they just mumbled something and left.

A neigbour of mine got one of those chinchua dogs, now they are small and this one was only about 8 weeks old so even smaller, she brough the dog out side and this women started to shout, put that dog on a lead its dangerous he could bit someone.

i burst out laughing, this dog was no bigger then my hand.

Mjollnir

macy9 wrote: »

Second time this month a middle aged woman has literally roared at me when my dog is urinating on a communal green. See, she's a female dog so she sits to urinate. Both times they've yelled at me ''are you going to clean up after that.'' The last time the woman beeped her horn at me in her parked car.

I explain that she's just urinating and both times they've tried to backtrack and said ''well I bet you don't have a bag to clean up after her''....and both times Ive produced a bio-degradable pooper-scooper bag. And both times I received no apology whatsoever.

What do they expect me to do? Put a cup underneath her when she urinates. Its 95% water!!!!

What irks me even more is that I see their neighbors out with their dogs without leads and not cleaning up after their dogs' feces.

Agggghhhhhh!

If she's yelling at you from her car, that means her window's down. If her window's down, there's no reason why you couldn't avail her to a quick inspection of her own, by quickly tossing it through.

A cheerful, "See for yourself!" always adds just the right touch.

congo_90

I dont own a dog but my brother goes on holidays regularly for football/ the missus whatever.. Anyways I always volunteer to look after his dog in my house. The other day I forgot to bring a poop bag. And low and behold Got round the corner. he dropped and left a nice big one. I was so embarrased! had to go home and get a bag and go back to the place!

macy9

I think I was more annoyed about the fact that they didn't apologise when they accused me of not having a bag, when I clearly did. And the beeping of the horn was just ridiculous. The car was right beside me.

Paul91

macy9 wrote: »

I think I was more annoyed about the fact that they didn't apologise when they accused me of not having a bag, when I clearly did. And the beeping of the horn was just ridiculous. The car was right beside me.

if they beeped there horn i think you can report them as they are committing the illegal act and not you, not certain in Ireland but in the UK

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070289

The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn

• while stationary on the road
• when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am

except when another road user poses a danger.

Page 53 on the following for the Irish version - prittty similar

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/pdf-downloads/english/rules-of-the-road%20eng.pdf

barbiegirl

I often see people looking, but I always make a point of going over, even though I know it's a pee, I go over to look at where she was, and always say out loud, only a pee :-)
I can understand people having issues, as someone let their dog poop on our front lawn continually. It was very frustrating and annoying. Then when we got Sindy, and the local kids started chatting to us, I made mention of picking up her poo and how someone was letting theirs go in front of our house. It stopped immediately :-)

andreac

You will never win with people like that so no point trying to argue your case with them. You know yourself you are in the right, if they cant see that you are picking up poop then thats their problem.

Just tell them if they have a problem with you, to report it to the dog warden. I had to do this once with a woman who was harrassing me over my dog, who wasnt off the lead, had his halti on, was on the other side of the road and wasnt even looking her direction let alone doing anything else. I'd had enough and told her to mind her own business and if she has a problem to report me to the dog warden then.

Graces7

Many years ago, we lived in an open plan estate.

A woman across the road was hostile; saw her one night getting her wee dachshund to poo on our lawn...

So I phoned her, saying how terribly worried I was to see it as we had just put strong weedkiller on the lawn ....

She hung up; but that dog will have had a a bath that night and she never did it again.


quote=barbiegirl;63538576]I often see people looking, but I always make a point of going over, even though I know it's a pee, I go over to look at where she was, and always say out loud, only a pee :-)
I can understand people having issues, as someone let their dog poop on our front lawn continually. It was very frustrating and annoying. Then when we got Sindy, and the local kids started chatting to us, I made mention of picking up her poo and how someone was letting theirs go in front of our house. It stopped immediately :-)[/quote]

Starlights

Unfortunely this will always happen!
Has happened to me a few times. People being darn right ignorant instead of just asking you nicely. I dont mind people asking questions about my dogs and my views etc, everyone has to learn. but i HATE people shouting abuse for NO reason esp when they dont even know what they are talking about.
I always carry poo bags...and even when i dont have the dogs, i always have poo bags on me haha Quite embarassing when you take out your purse and a poo bag falls out!! :rolleyes: haha
I always scoop the poop as i HATE standing in dog poo, esp when the kids stand in it aswell...its not nice at all.

But pee is well pee...how you gona clean that up!? My dog always waits to pee and poo when she has a crowd watching her! haha

doctor evil

Doesn't the urine from a bitch damage/kill off grass?

Starlights

Yes it does. But not with one pee to the grass! It takes a few pee's in the same place to cause noticeable damage

star-pants

doctor evil wrote: »

Doesn't the urine from a bitch damage/kill off grass?

Urine from either bitch or dog will damage grass, due to the nitrogen in it.

But for once off urinating it shouldn't do much damage.

the_syco

Anyone Else Getting This Unnecessary Abuse?

Nope. Usually only walk the dog in the evening, but have never gotten abuse. Of someone mentioned it, I'd probably clean it up, but if someone did give me abuse, I'd probably tell them to f**k off (and then some), though.

Get your dog to find a patch, and pee on the same patch. There's a small patch in the back garden where the grass is killed, but luckily she pisses in thte same spot every time.

tk123

Starlights wrote: »

Quite embarassing when you take out your purse and a poo bag falls out!! :rolleyes: haha

That happens to me all the time!!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

In fairness, No. I have walked a bitch for 25 years and never have I received any such abuse.

Top Dog

doctor evil wrote: »

Doesn't the urine from a bitch damage/kill off grass?

Think it depends on the particular dog/bitch. We've 3 small dogs now (1 dog & 2 bitches) and none of them kill the grass. Our previous Rottie bitch did kill the grass, and a male Samoyed that we had as a house guest for 2 weeks killed grass too (and he was only 3 months old at the time).

iguana

I've had it twice. Once when my dogs were about 9 months and we walking to the park. Their leads got tangled and I stopped to untangle them. A woman came running out of her house to scream at me to pick up the poo. She would not accept that my dogs were not going to the toilet. I can sympathise with her frustration if she constantly has dog crap at her gate, but yelling at anyone who has a dog isn't going to help her with that.

And a few months ago one of my dogs was taking a poo in the park. I was standing over him with a plastic bag on my hand waiting for him to finish when this man started screaming, effing and blinding, at me for not picking up the poo. I pointed out that I was standing there with a bag on my hand and he started screaming liar, liar, liar. Then he started calling me names which boards would asterix out if I typed them. My dog finished pooing so I ducked down picked it up and held it for him to see. He just kept screaming and screaming at me that I was lying and nobody ever picked up poo so I couldn't fool him, all the while calling me awful names. I got so mad. I walked over to him with the poo in the bag in one hand and my role of bags in the other and so he could see I had them. He turned around and ran away, still calling me names. I wouldn't mind but this guy was wearing a suit and carrying a laptop bag, he didn't look like a total nutter. I was really upset by him, I'm glad he ran away because if he kept calling me names I would probably have emptied the bag on him.:o

As an aside, one of my dogs never, ever cocks his leg and the other cocks his when he poos.:cool:

ETA: I just added in that bold "he" I forgot earlier. My story takes on quite a different tone without it.

Graces7

With the rainfall in Ireland!!! Well diluted..

All this makes me so thankful I do not have to take our dogs out. We have the use of a small field..They can run free and no one to carry on at them.

I am sure that much of the time the aggro has nothing to do with the dogs. Just snarky and hitting out.

Starlights wrote: »

Yes it does. But not with one pee to the grass! It takes a few pee's in the same place to cause noticeable damage

Clare Bear

I walk dogs as part of my job and get this sometimes. Usually only with larger dogs for some reason, no one ever comments when I'm walking a smaller dog. I have a little poop a scoop thing that I love to open and show them the contents of when they have a go at me, the look of disgust on their face is great, shuts them up fast :pac:

tudlytops

doctor evil wrote: »

Doesn't the urine from a bitch damage/kill off grass?

Don't think so, if that were the case i wouldn't need a lawn mower, it would be lovely.:)

bongi69

I don't get abuse for my dog taking a whizz, however I have got abuse many times as he's a staffie. I walk him fully in accordance with the dangerous dogs act (i.e. short lead, muzzle etc.), but still peopel tell me I shouldn't have him in the park, he should be locked up, he'll kill you if he gets the chance etc. etc.
The best was one lady stopping to give out to me, her bischon off its lead (which is against the rules of this particular park), running around continously nipping at my dog and my legs, getting him good on the ear drawing blood. And he didn't flinch. He didn't even try to make a move for her dog

When I pointed this out to her that her dog was misbehaving, I got more abuse, now levelled at me, not my dog.

I am going to take a stand for staffies. They get a bad rep from bad owners who only have them as a status symbol. I've had staffies all my life, and have never, ever had one react at me with anger or malice. Most people just have a preconcieved notion that they're killers etc. etc.

ha-ya-said-what

Never had an issues with the whole poo/pee thing, generally cos ours get walked at night when the place is quite. I get worse than that abuse, I get abuse aimed directly at the dog and she hasn't even done anything.

Example: Postbox is at the top of the estate, said I'd being the Japanese spitz with me, half way to it roaring at the top of his voice (one idiot with a group of his mates, more than likely the yob students we get in the houses here) " What the f*** is that, it's a f***in sheep, the state of it a f***in sheep on a lead ... sheep sheep", carried on & said nothing cos around here if you respond to them they get worse. Coming back again "ahhhh it's the f***in sheep again, I wouldn't be seen dead walking that yoke, the state of it, baaaahhh bahhhh sheep" and then his mates joined in!

I mean what kind of a narrow minded idiot thinks he's funny for shouting abuse at a dog :mad: and there he was thinking he was great cos his mates were laughing so gets worse with the swearing and abuse. Absolutely no respect for pets around here, I've had logs (2ft long branches the thicker than my two arms together) thrown at the dogs, footballs kicked at them & bloody pellet guns fired at them and that was all when they were in the back garden. The garden is confined within a 6ft wall and side gate at the house, yet they still find the need to harrass the dogs!! Yes the main brat for the garden incidents got several earfuls, at the time he was 17, so his mother followed up our complaints with "your the adult, hes only a child, ye should know better"

seamus

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually, until my first dog, only a few years ago, I did not know that only male dogs cock their legs:) You only notice that!

I've seen females cock their legs, but it's quite rare. I suspect males tend to cock their legs to pee *on* stuff such as trees and posts to scent it, but this is less of a concern for females who don't tend to pee on anything.

My bitch only has three legs, so you could say that she always cocks one

Might be a controversial topic - but would be it be fair to suggest that it's mainly women who get abused by people who think that a woman isn't going to give abuse back or (or attack you)? I can safely say I've never once had a person make a comment about a dog I was walking, and when I was a kid we used to let our dog crap on any patch of grass anywhere and just leave it there.

I am going to take a stand for staffies. They get a bad rep from bad owners who only have them as a status symbol. I've had staffies all my life, and have never, ever had one react at me with anger or malice. Most people just have a preconcieved notion that they're killers etc. etc.

I have absolutely no qualms about the temperment of our staffie, but we don't have her long and I think it's her strength which worries me more than anything. She wouldn't just *turn*, at all, ever, but if she was pushed or sufficiently annoyed by another dog, I could see her doing a serious amount of damage. Maybe it's just a newbie's concern. She spent a few hours with two other dogs during the week and they were generally getting on, but the other two dogs were annoying her - growling at her and so forth. The owner of the other two dogs claims that she left the room and came back a few minutes later to find our staffie pinning one of the dogs to the ground. No aggression, growling or biting mind - she had just jumped on the dog and flattened it.

Paul91

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

Never had an issues with the whole poo/pee thing, generally cos ours get walked at night when the place is quite. I get worse than that abuse, I get abuse aimed directly at the dog and she hasn't even done anything.

Example: Postbox is at the top of the estate, said I'd being the Japanese spitz with me, half way to it roaring at the top of his voice (one idiot with a group of his mates, more than likely the yob students we get in the houses here) " What the f*** is that, it's a f***in sheep, the state of it a f***in sheep on a lead ... sheep sheep", carried on & said nothing cos around here if you respond to them they get worse. Coming back again "ahhhh it's the f***in sheep again, I wouldn't be seen dead walking that yoke, the state of it, baaaahhh bahhhh sheep" and then his mates joined in!

I mean what kind of a narrow minded idiot thinks he's funny for shouting abuse at a dog :mad: and there he was thinking he was great cos his mates were laughing so gets worse with the swearing and abuse. Absolutely no respect for pets around here, I've had logs (2ft long branches the thicker than my two arms together) thrown at the dogs, footballs kicked at them & bloody pellet guns fired at them and that was all when they were in the back garden. The garden is confined within a 6ft wall and side gate at the house, yet they still find the need to harrass the dogs!! Yes the main brat for the garden incidents got several earfuls, at the time he was 17, so his mother followed up our complaints with "your the adult, hes only a child, ye should know better"

feel for ya there, yobs are yobs and bully's are bully's the will always find something to shout

I'm actually waiting for my abuse to come, as I have a big (XXXXL) hi viz bomber jacket with "DOG WALKING IN PROGRESS" written on the back in much the same vein as "GARDA" - ;o) not sure if it's the fact i'm 21st and 6'4" or because i have a 90lb GS and 80lb Boxador on the end of my two leads :D

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

tudlytops wrote: »

Don't think so, if that were the case i wouldn't need a lawn mower, it would be lovely.:)

Wrong, I'm afraid. It most certainly kills grass. It may only be in some breeds. Petshops sell a herbal pill to conteract it but have never tried them with our dogs.

I can see why people get hyper about Dog fouling. The Pee kills their grass and the Poo is a health hassard as well as being foul smelling.
Some of our streets are dreadfully dirty from dogs and if it was outside my house I think I'd eventually lose the head too. You can understand how somebody who is plagued with dog fouling would let fly at the next dog walker they see when the dog starts to squat.
Never been accosted about it myself.

bongi69

seamus wrote: »

The owner of the other two dogs claims that she left the room and came back a few minutes later to find our staffie pinning one of the dogs to the ground. No aggression, growling or biting mind - she had just jumped on the dog and flattened it.

Thats just a dominance thingy. Got that from watching Ceaser Milan:D

tesslab

It drives me crazy when people start shouting at ya before the dog has even finished! What more can ya do but stand there with the poo bag at the ready???
Even then they shout "Are you gonna pick that up?" Got so p**sed off one day I replied with "Why? Do you want it? I've loads at home , you're more than welcome to it!!!" Smart a*se!

iguana

seamus wrote: »

Might be a controversial topic - but would be it be fair to suggest that it's mainly women who get abused by people who think that a woman isn't going to give abuse back or (or attack you)?

I suspect this with some people. I pointed the man who yelled at me out to my husband a week or so after it happened and he told me he's seen him quite few times in the park but he's never said anything to him.

olaola

My bitch does a 'squat-cock' and often engages in 'pee-offs' with other dogs around. I don't know how they can keep that much urine in their bladder.
Saying that - I've never ever been questioned about her droppings. Maybe the locals in Inchicore aren't really that bothered!

iguana

tesslab wrote: »

It drives me crazy when people start shouting at ya before the dog has even finished! What more can ya do but stand there with the poo bag at the ready???

Hold the bag under the dog's bottom and catch it before it hits the ground.

tesslab

lol! if they had their way all dogs would wear nappies!!!

billbond4

you goota love irish people, some people might come up to you about picking up dogs poo.
But they they would turn around and throw a cigarrette butt or rubbish on the footpath, they are both littering in my eyes, so they are really being hypocritical.
I cant walk 10 feet in most towns without seening some litter on the street, every morning without fail before I leave my estate (50 odd house) walking my dog I can pick up some rubbish and put it in the bin at the top of the road.
Were really a dirty little nation unfortunately.

ToniTuddle

Some people are soooo ignorant!
Then you have the down right cruel (in relation to the poster whos dogs had logs thrown at them:eek::eek:)

When I was living in NZ(very dog and cat friendly nation from my experiences I might add!) I use to walk the family Golden Retriever about 2 or 3 times a day. Nobody ever got onto me about the pooing on the streets as everybody picked up the dog poo.

Unfortunately that dog had a dodgy stomach and alot of the time it was more liquid poo which is not nice!

When we were living in the country(literally back end of nowhere farming area) we didn't pick up his poo.

Plus he used to always squat like a girl dog when peeing!! He always looked soo embarrassed it was soo cute.

I miss him :(:(

lrushe

ha-ya-said-what wrote: »

Example: Postbox is at the top of the estate, said I'd being the Japanese spitz with me, half way to it roaring at the top of his voice (one idiot with a group of his mates, more than likely the yob students we get in the houses here) " What the f*** is that, it's a f***in sheep, the state of it a f***in sheep on a lead ... sheep sheep", carried on & said nothing cos around here if you respond to them they get worse. Coming back again "ahhhh it's the f***in sheep again, I wouldn't be seen dead walking that yoke, the state of it, baaaahhh bahhhh sheep" and then his mates joined

Never had abuse quite like that but have been asked a few times by the same kind of idiots when walking my Japanese Spitz "Here missus, where'd ye get your wolf pup"

macy9

seamus wrote: »

Might be a controversial topic - but would be it be fair to suggest that it's mainly women who get abused by people who think that a woman isn't going to give abuse back or (or attack you)?

You are exactly right.

I didn't want to mention it initially, but being young, blonde and female and the fact that its happened twice now makes me think that had I been a 6ft bloke with a Rotweiller neither of these people would have had the audacity to yell at me.

Naya Unkempt Grocer wrote: »

You can understand how somebody who is plagued with dog fouling would let fly at the next dog walker they see when the dog starts to squat.

To be honest I really can't. These people are roaring at me without any proof. Since when is it acceptable to shout something at someone when you haven't even bothered to check if you're right? I always pick up after my dog. Always. They're just preempting and making and unfounded assumption. Its baffling.

Whispered

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Plus he used to always squat like a girl dog when peeing!! He always looked soo embarrassed it was soo cute.

My boy does the same. He has lifted his leg once or twice and I was so excitd the first time he did it I posted here. Then he reverted to peeing like a horse. Leaning forward on his back legs. It's cute.

mymo

Have had the shouts before once or twice(also female), had the poop bag in my hand at the time. Have also been laughed at for picking it up, probably at least once a week. But then most dogs round here are just let out on their own all day, to sh*t where they like.
My boy only cocks his leg when theres another dog around(being macho i guess), otherwise its the puppy pee or lifts one foot about 2 inches up and out. Very funny to see, he was 10 months or more before he cocked his leg.
The little one pees more than he does and stops at every stick or stone. Have no idea where she keeps it all.

Honey-ec

helena.ryan wrote: »

My boy does the same. He has lifted his leg once or twice and I was so excitd the first time he did it I posted here. Then he reverted to peeing like a horse. Leaning forward on his back legs. It's cute.

That's exactly what my youngest (he's 3!) does. He was neutered young, so it was never very likely that he'd cock his leg. Then we got an older male from a rescue, who did cock. Hector did it once, the day after the older male arrived, but ever since then, the older male has done the lean. He only ever cocks now if my bitch is weeing at the same time, and then he cocks his leg on her, the fecker. I think it's his one way of getting one up on her, cause she bosses him around something awful, despite the fact that he's 10 kilos heavier than her.

Whispered

isn't it great how they entertain us even in the way they pee. LOL at him lifting his leg on your bitch.

I have never gotten any abuse about my dog going to the toilet. I suppose I'm lucky.

ToniTuddle

helena.ryan wrote: »

My boy does the same. He has lifted his leg once or twice and I was so excitd the first time he did it I posted here. Then he reverted to peeing like a horse. Leaning forward on his back legs. It's cute.

Murphy did lift his leg up once when I was walking him. I couldn't believe it! When we got back to the house told the bosses and they all made a fuss of him saying "oh your becoming a proper lad now!" ha
After that though he never did.

cianer

tesslab wrote: »

It drives me crazy when people start shouting at ya before the dog has even finished!

Me too! My mother was minding my dog for me, took her to the beach where the dog started to assume the position. My mam went to get the bags and walk over to wait to collect the deposit when a woman barrelled over and started yelling at her to pick it up. My mam got so cross at this that she pointed out the dog hadnt finished and would the woman like her to tie a poo bag over the dog's a*se for the entire walk?!!! Woman slunk back to her own spot muttering to herself! Go Mammy!!!

I also have 2 bitches who cock legs and a male dog who at 3 years old never bothered learning to cock his and still squats!!

Graces7

Wonderful lady your mam!!!

cianer wrote: »

Me too! My mother was minding my dog for me, took her to the beach where the dog started to assume the position. My mam went to get the bags and walk over to wait to collect the deposit when a woman barrelled over and started yelling at her to pick it up. My mam got so cross at this that she pointed out the dog hadnt finished and would the woman like her to tie a poo bag over the dog's a*se for the entire walk?!!! Woman slunk back to her own spot muttering to herself! Go Mammy!!!

I also have 2 bitches who cock legs and a male dog who at 3 years old never bothered learning to cock his and still squats!!