Graduate medicine Loans

suspectpackage

I'm planning on doing grad med and starting in 2011. Looking at the UCC website I came accross the BOI loan conditions... I have to say I am not impressed. What alarmed me was the need for a guarantor and that the loan would be terminated if the guarantor died or became bankrupt etc. I would probably be able to get my mother to be a guarantor but she is struggling with her own mortgage and I could not guarantee that she would be able to keep up the payments (she could get sick etc). I actually thought no guarantor was needed. Have a look at the terms, they don't look good. To any GEMers, are these standard conditions??

http://www.ucc.ie/en/DepartmentsCentresandUnits/SchoolofMedicine/gradentry/UCC.BOI.Grad%20Med%20Loan.doc

blipp

I have this loan. It hurts. Badly.

I had to have a guarantor - like any loan, if you don't have a job they want proof that someone with a job can pay it back if you don't get a job. Or something.

Either way, the conditions didn't freak me out. Just the amount!!!! :eek::eek:

suspectpackage

It's a huge thing to ask from a guarantor though isn't it? I know my mother would do it, but it's really a big ask. I suppose you'd need a guarantor for the AIB loan too though.

OUCH!

I'm going to look into the AIB loan. Why did you go with this one over the AIB one?

imported_guy

• Minimum loan amount €52,460 to cover full course fees (€13,115 per annum).

bit of a joke as well for people who have most of the money already just maybe need a year or 2's worth of fees

• Facility is open only to individuals residing in ROI for the last 10 years.

wait, i guess i cant get this , anyone got the details on the AIB one, im pretty sure UCD affiliates itself with AIB, my firefox is acting up right now will edit

MicraBoy

The students at the RCSI Open Day said getting this loan was the easiest thing they ever did. There was no guarantor or anything. I'm not sure which bank the RCSI have done a deal with though. Guess it wasn't BOI :cool:

sillymoo

RCSI collaberate with AIB. This is what I have found on the RCSI intranet.

suspectpackage

Yep, I think the AIB loan is a much better proposition.

blipp

suspectpackage wrote: »

It's a huge thing to ask from a guarantor though isn't it? I know my mother would do it, but it's really a big ask. I suppose you'd need a guarantor for the AIB loan too though.

OUCH!

I'm going to look into the AIB loan. Why did you go with this one over the AIB one?

I went with BOI because its the only one on offer in UCC or at least it was at the time. I couldn't get the Ulster Bank one or the AIB one as they were not the "UCC bank". I went into AIB before getting the loan and they told me that they didn't have it set up (although they did in RCSI) and couldn't offer it to me. In the end I had to go for BOI.

It's a big ask alright but chances are you are going to pay back the loan yourself. You can get life insurance to pay off the loan in the event of your death (hopefully unlikely) and fingers crossed you won't become ill when the loan becomes due for payment.

It's crap but its the only way I can do the programme so its a means to an end I suppose.

GradMed

AIB also require a guarantor, they didn't for the 1st year of my loan. I took out life insurance through 123.ie as it was far cheaper than the in house AIB offer. It sounds very odd to me that the AIB and Ulster bank loan offers don't apply to UCC students.

chanste

I am 1st year GEM student in Limerick. Got AIB loan with no guarantor. They just wanted to see that I had the offer, they also absorbed loans which I had and gave me a better rate than Ulster Bank were "apparently" offering (UB had me on a wild goose chase to keep getting them different things which kept popping up on their requirements). Bank of Ireland weren't lending enough for my purposes and wouldn't absorb existing loans so I didn't pursue that option.

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing; I was incredibly worried about finance when I got my offer, but it really seems like I was worrying about nothing, AIB got back to me next day and their loan officer told me no one with an offer of a place had been refused a loan from them. Anyway I know I sound like an advertisement for the bank, but I genuinely was impressed and would recommend them.

Anyone who looks at older threads I posted to last year will see how worried I was about this stuff.

suspectpackage

Thanks for that chaste. How are you finding the course in Limerick?

<MOD Snip>If you wish to ask about the quality or otherwise of the ladies in UL, post it in the UL forum, please, not here, and try not to use the type of language that may offend. </MOd snip>

whittyusername

The T&C's for BoI have changed as the graduate medicine product has been revised this year as have the APR rates, I'm reading the product (the lingo for the loan & all it's T's&C's) description and a guarantor MAY apply.

I know the Ulster Bank APR is 4% (variable), however, when BoI revised the rate for their product (currently 4.1% APR variable), it was market leading SO you may be able to sweet talk your branch manager around lowering the APR rate to continue being the market leader, I am currently trying anyway (i'm currently staff in one of the above institutions, take a guess which :rolleyes:). I'll let you know how I get on.

In the current situation, if needs be, play your education off as a long term investment for the bank and if you restructure your loan repayments later on, they make more in interest so a low APR now will pay off dividends for them later as 1) it'll secure your business with the bank and 2) you may become a long term client with a big old doctors salary deposit account & investments.

For both UB & BoI, they were ready to give the loan straight away with proof of an offer so it all looks pretty easy, guess it's just about getting the best deal around.

I went into AIB and not one of them knew of any products like the grad med ones in BoI or UB, is it only through RCSI they do it? What branch deal with that?

finty

whittyusername wrote: »

I went into AIB and not one of them knew of any products like the grad med ones in BoI or UB, is it only through RCSI they do it? What branch deal with that?

The business centre in Westmoreland St deals with the RCSI loans, not sure if they do loans for the other colleges. None of the branches know anything about these loans

Ask for Wayne McNamara.

jenga-jen

Thanks for the info whittyusername!!

I had a meeting this afternoon with AIB in which I was willing to move my current a/c, credit card and savings a/c from my existing bank if the rate was good.

Imagine my surprise at being offered at bog standard student loan with a variable APR of between 7.6 - 7.9% with a guarantor (or possibly a 'joint loan' in which this person would be in fact taking the loan with me!). Edit: however since this I've been informed only certain branches look after grad med package.

I've a meeting with UB tomorrow and if the 4% variable is anything close to correct I'll be jumping at it!

It seems insane that people would make it so difficult considering that it's cementing your link to their bank! :rolleyes:

Sid_Justice

what college are you in jenga?

GradMed

Georgina Butler, AIB Belfield, is overseeing the graduate medicine loans in that branch. The branch number is 01 2694499.

jenga-jen

Sid_Justice wrote: »

what college are you in jenga?

UCD but only if I can get this poxy loan.

After asking UB for a loan of 90-100k they said the grad med loans 'are not something we're looking to do at the moment'

Needless to say I'll be moving all of my accounts

Edit: have iust been over in UCD with AIB. Couldn't be more helpful

For anyone in RCSI, it's AIB in Westmoreland St.

danthefan

So what's the story with the UCD loan, is the branch on campus doing them? What's the APR?

Sid_Justice

Ulster Bank were the bank UL did their Grad-med loan agreement with but since then AIB have come on board. Everyone* in UL is going with AIB now. I don't see why there would be a problem with UCD, especially if you get talking to the right person. Hope it works out for everyone.

*(that should read everyone I've spoken to/heard from).

Tazzle

Tazzle wrote: »

I went into AIB on college road and they do the grad med loan for ucc, seem quite a bit more flexible than BoI too.

vrfcno7 wrote: »

The same terms as offered fr UL grad meds? Who did you deal with? Rang them today and they didn't seem to know anything about it.

Tazzle wrote: »

I was talking to a Donn Horgan, he's based in aib, cit but works out of college road branch too. He said he'd give me a call back with more info today so I'll keep you posted

I got a call back today. Here's where I'm at.

UCC - Gradmed

I'm a BoI customer of UCC. I have funds to pay for the course, I just need a loan for living expenses. I met with them at their UCC branch last week. The stipulations of the BoI loan is that it is a minimum requirement that they pay for your fees. This is paid directly to the university. In my case I have the money needed to pay for the fees and I can then claim back tax on this amount which is a substantial amount. BoI would not work around this with me.

I then got in contact with AIB on College Road. I spoke with Donn Horgan who seemed very much willing to give me their graduate medicine loan deal without paying fees. But he had to confirm this. That would give me the special 4 year rate and allows me to pay my fees myself.

I got a callback today from them today confirming this. This means getting a substantial tax rebate on the fees and reduces the cost by quite a bit. Win, win.

So unless BoI have a sudden change of heart it looks like I'm off to AIB.

whittyusername

Jenga-Jen: Call the UB crowd in UL branch because it is very much something their willing to do and very easily plus the more banks offering it, the more bartering you can do (or try anyway :rolleyes:).
Perhaps you were talking to the wrong person, unfortunately those who are front of house are not always aware of all the products if it's not in their area, I had the same problem with AIB on Grafton St., "no sorry, we don't do anything like that", walked around the corner to AIB westmoreland street and they were more than happy to help . . . . . . . . . But you saw that with the bog standard student loan they tried to offer you!

Talk to BoI as I know it's KIND OF set in stone BUT i've been talking to the man who is the product manager and he agrees it's daft to sell a product thats not market leading so maybe try another branch and see how you go

Also, it maybe worth looking at the APR for when the loan is done, try wiggle that too as the BoI one is good but the time (84 weeks) to repay it in leaves you paying 1500-1800 a month which is alot starting off and i'm sure they'll be willing to extend the time but maybe that's best left for when (touch wood) you graduate

MicraBoy

jenga-jen wrote: »

UCD but only if I can get this poxy loan.

After asking UB for a loan of 90-100k they said the grad med loans 'are not something we're looking to do at the moment'

Needless to say I'll be moving all of my accounts

Edit: have iust been over in UCD with AIB. Couldn't be more helpful

For anyone in RCSI, it's AIB in Westmoreland St.

jen you need to contact Conor Johnson in the BOI Montrose branch. He is the one dealing with the GradMed loans at the moment. That's if you want to check it out the BOI product.

jenga-jen

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Got the loan sorted with AIB on the UCD campus at very low/competitive rate so I'm delighted.

UB "chief" underwriters in College Green said it's not something they'd be willing to do when asked by the staff member I met with and when I went into AIB there'd been another student in that morning who'd been told the same thing.

I think at this stage if you can get the loan ANYWHERE and you're happy enough with the terms then might as well go for it The banks (that are doing them) all seem broadly in line with each other so let's just get on with the rest of it now!!

whittyusername

Best offer out there is AIB at 3.03 APR when everyone else is offering 4.1 APR AND AIB are letting you take it out in as many stages as you want (up to 25k per annum) so your interest is charged per day SO if you draw down 2k every two months, you'll only get charged interest for that 2k where as if you draw down 25k at the start of the year in one go, you get charged for the 25k SO you can save yourself more money in interest by drawing down in small, regular instalments (and you can't blow it if it's not in the account :rolleyes: ).

This is for UL mind you and when I rang AIB previously, they weren't exactly clued in on the medicine loan so ring UL branch and try get her to sort it for your local branch if your not UL bound

jenga-jen

whittyusername wrote: »

This is for UL mind you and when I rang AIB previously, they weren't exactly clued in on the medicine loan so ring UL branch and try get her to sort it for your local branch if your not UL bound

Just to add to this, although I'm not certain who's looking after UCC in AIB, that the branches for loans are:

RCSI - Westmoreland St
UCD - Belfield

Apparently, per the Belfield branch, only certain branches are authorised to offer this package.

Also, they ask you to take life insurance since they don't require a guarantor. This is only about €1,000 over the 4 years in college but it can take a couple of weeks for them to 'register their interest' in the insurance (i.e. make sure they get paid first if you die) and this can sometimes hold up the loan being paid.

So.... if you haven't started getting this sorted you should probably do it soon!

Sid_Justice

Lads how come did you have access to funds after signing off on it? Like days? weeks?

jenga-jen

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Lads how come did you have access to funds after signing off on it? Like days? weeks?

Sid the AIB loan is (and I quote) "pretty much a pre-approved" loan. So barring any problem with your credit history/status you generally get approved within about 4-5 working days.

However, it's the insurance side that can occasionally hold things up. Once that's cleared (which is where I'm at atm) then you'll get access to the money. I'm sure if you were stuck there might be something a financial adviser could help you with though

middaydemon

anyone else still waiting for approval through AIB Westmoreland St? I've been told it'll be at least another week. The timescales involved here are ridiculously tight, given that I can't quit my job or move to Dublin until I know the money's there.

Sid_Justice

can anyone tell me about sort of life assurance is best to get? I assume that's what we need to have in place before the loan is made available? IS the policy the bank offer worth taking or is it worth shopping around?

jenga-jen

Sid your life insurance basically has to be enough to cover the sum borrowed (plus interest) in the event of your death. So you can shop around if you like.

I chose not to because:

1. I thought this might push the timescales a bit
2. The €20 per month option covers approx €250k, this means that if you take a mortgage on top of your loan the first 250k of both will be covered at the 20 per month and then you negotiate the extra (bearing in mind insurance is cheaper the younger you get it)

Best bet is to talk to someone when you're getting your loan. They're more than supportive if you choose to look around IME

mystery1

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has experience of graduate entry medicine loans for RCSI, UCD and UCC?

In particular, does anyone know if AIB for UCD and UCC require that the loan be secured by a guarantor?

I know the RCSI loan can be unsecured, but incase I get a place in UCD or UCC instead I would like to know of peoples experiences with these banks.

Thank you!

mystery1

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone has experience of graduate entry medicine loans for RCSI, UCD and UCC?

In particular, does anyone know if AIB for UCD and UCC require that the loan be secured by a guarantor?

I know the RCSI loan can be unsecured, but incase I get a place in UCD or UCC instead I would like to know of peoples experiences with these banks.

Also, does anyone know of where AIB will also incorporate previous loans into the GE loan package? I owe 9K on another loan, hoping they will also build this into the GE loan....

Thank you!

spagboll

AIB, UB and BOI do GEM loans for all 4 of the colleges, all unsecured

Very easy to get and sort out

AIB have the best package by far, and I would estimate that 90% of those that have gem loans are with AIB

If you want to pop into a branch you need to go the college affiliated branch, for rcsi i think its on the green and ucd is on campus, ucc is on college road and ul has one just off campus, generally other branches won't have a clue and are a waste of time

Your loan shouldnt be a problem

mystery1

Thanks a mil for the advice spagboll!

MicraBoy

BOI asked me about getting a guarantor. I told them it wasn't an option and they just dropped it.

mystery1

Oh good stuff, a guarantor is 100% not an option for me, I was worried that if (fingers crossed) I get an offer for one of the 4 courses that the bank situation might hold me back. thanks a mil for the info.

BizzyLizzie

How long is the term of the loan? And is it true what I've read about payments being nearly €2000 a month? How much does that leave a newly graduated doctor with to live on per month? I've tried searching for this info but I don't think the new search facility likes me! :P I think I may need to rob a bank at this stage :eek: Thanks for any info!

mystery1

Here's something I found on the UCC website which should give an idea as to how much it costs. Its for BOI only.

just-joe

So it'll cost you more than half of what you borrow to borrow it. Woah.

Is E1800 per month do-able on an intern's salary?

BizzyLizzie

Yeah, if you're paying that much, will you have any money left over to live on?

Traumadoc

1800 a month is a lot I would say that would leave you with about 100 a week to live off.

Joeyjoejoe83

mystery1 wrote: »

Here's something I found on the UCC website which should give an idea as to how much it costs. Its for BOI only.

Please tell me this is one sick, twisted joke!!
Those terms are disgraceful!

acg

Is it similar for the AIB loan? Can anyone tell me roughly how much will it cost for tuition, books and any associated costs aside from living expenses over the four years?

BizzyLizzie

Yeah it's really hard to find info on the AIB loan. You'd think they'd make the information more freely available seeing as the financial implications of pursuing this course might prove too much for a lot of people. I would ring the college branches but I doubt they'd tell me much about it seeing as I haven't even applied for G.E.M. yet...

kermicrzy

From what I remember for the UCD meeting back in October, the only bank braches that would have info on these loans are the ones next to the colleges.

ie AIB on UCD campus and BOI across the N11 at the Montrose for UCD medicine loans.

del85

BizzyLizzie wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to find info on the AIB loan. You'd think they'd make the information more freely available seeing as the financial implications of pursuing this course might prove too much for a lot of people. I would ring the college branches but I doubt they'd tell me much about it seeing as I haven't even applied for G.E.M. yet...

I pestered the lady who handles UCD loans until she gave me a ballpark figure for the monthly repayments. I think she said the it would be something like 1200 a month. I don't remember for sure though cos it was a while ago.

dissed doc

That is a high amount of repayments. for how long?

e.g., 100k at 1200/month would take 10 years to pay off. If salaries remain as they are (or reduce, which is more likely) you'd be living off of around 1000 a month for rent and bills, living for a decade, while on temporary 6-12 month contracts. Estimate to earn around 2500-3000 after tax while a trainee in Ireland. Perhaps a little less to begin with - 2000-2500.

By comparison, in the US loan repayments can be deferred until you start work as an attending/consultant.

EugeneOnegin

BizzyLizzie wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to find info on the AIB loan.

I approached AIB a while ago to get some information, this is gist of what I got back from one of their finiancial advisers. Make of it what you will:

1. Maximum sanction of €25k pa for each of the 4 year course duration.
2. The interest rate is variable and presently is circa 3.89%
3. Interest can be rolled up for the duration of the 4 year course term.
4. Funds are drawn down in one full sum p.a. The residual or surplus funds drawn can be placed on deposit at a similar rate of interest and can be accessed by the customer within 7 days. (presently 3.25% up to €10k, €1.75% thereafter).
5. No arrangement fees.
6. Life cover is not mandatory during the term of the 4 year course but strongly recommended. It is mandatory, thereafter. The recommendation is to have it in place in year 1. Life cover is more expensive the older you get.
7. Each individual graduate applying for a loan under the scheme is interviewed in the local campus branch by an experienced lender.

On Graduating:
1. At the end of the 4 year term interview between the customer and the branch to renegotiate terms of facility and agreed loan repayment scheme to be instated.
2. Facility is negotiated as a personal borrowing with a repayment schedule with a maximum of 10 years and and interest only option available of one year.

I've compared this to the previously offered BOI loans and I think AIB is market leader. Though BOI haven't finalised details of the 2011 loan scheme, it could well be comparable to AIB.

I've made a good few enquires with Ulster Bank and it would seem that no such loan will be offered in September (or such a decision hasn't been made).
I do think RBS are pulling out of Ireland(though I stand to correction), so perhaps this is a consequence of that? Funny thing, since UL advertised that Ulster Bank would be at 2011 open day to discuss loan packages?

imported_guy

dissed doc wrote: »

By comparison, in the US loan repayments can be deferred until you start work as an attending/consultant.

in america you can chose to do so, but most dont, as the interest keeps compounding, and making an absurd loan even more absurd, and you should remember you earn more/less depending on where you live, and the taxes are generally alot lower than here, and in some places you dont even have state tax, just federal tax.

MedGal

EugeneOnegin wrote: »

I've made a good few enquires with Ulster Bank and it would seem that no such loan will be offered in September (or such a decision hasn't been made).
I do think RBS are pulling out of Ireland(though I stand to correction), so perhaps this is a consequence of that? Funny thing, since UL advertised that Ulster Bank would be at 2011 open day to discuss loan packages?

Really? Were you speaking to someone from the UL branch?
Has anybody else been speaking to Ulster Bank or AIB in UL about loans?

bubbleking

imported_guy wrote: »

in america you can chose to do so, but most dont, as the interest keeps compounding, and making an absurd loan even more absurd, and you should remember you earn more/less depending on where you live, and the taxes are generally alot lower than here, and in some places you dont even have state tax, just federal tax.

all moving state side when we graduate so