SU Hard to get in on

douglashyde · 14-12-2009 2:47pm #1

OK - I have to be very careful on what I say here, first, because a lot of people know who I am and the position I hold.

First, let me start by saying, that I think this year’s SU has done a very good job and that I think Alan Keegan and John Murphy have done a great job.

I am four years in DCU now and have been fairly active in some events and in particular one society. I was never or am clicky or close to anyone within the SU, SCC or SPC.

None the less I ran for an ordinary position within the SPC in my second year, there where two positions and five people ran. – not a word of a lie, my speech mentioned that the SPC, SU etc where very tight and clicky and as an outsider I would make a good addition. - I lost. I am not saying I deserved to win, however there was one guy there, who like me, was not well known to the SPC or the people voting, however in my opinion he had more experience than anyone there, he also lost…….. The person, who won was someone who had held a position on the SU, the second person who won was a committee member of a large society. – I am not suggesting these people where not experienced enough, I am however saying that there where people with equal or greater experience there that didn’t make the vote because they where not “clicky”

As it stands, I think the SPC, SCC and SU are fairly well run, however I feel there is an isolation of the common student, who might just want to want go to one or two events a year, or just participate with one society . . . . also, I feel that running of certain events are two tiered – with certain access/preference given to an elite few.

Ending this point on a good note, the SU have done an amazing job getting the bar up and running again, however somebody who is not given enough credit is Shea and the new Bar management, what they are managing to do is not easy after all.

markpb · 14-12-2009 3:25pm

I'm going to start by being pedantic. DCU is not like most other colleges in Ireland - the SPC and SCC are not part of the SU, they are independent bodies on an equal footing with the SU.

By virtue of it being an election, the people who get voted onto the SPC and SCC committees are going to be well known people. A few committee members won't know any of the candidates so they'll vote for people based on their speech but most people will vote for their friends or people they've worked with during the year. That's not corruption, cliques or anything else, it's just human nature. In a room full of people you don't know, you will naturally vote for your friend.

The counter to this is that is that it's relatively easy to get on a committee for a club or society. During the year, you should be (naturally) getting to know other committee members so they'll know you and vote for you at the end of the year. This has the advantage that the people getting elected have experience running a club or society and will be better equipped to sit on the SPC and SCC.

douglashyde wrote: »

feel there is an isolation of the common student, who might just want to want go to one or two events a year, or just participate with one society

Why do you think someone who doesn't involve themselves much in society life would be a good person to sit on the SPC and decide the financial fate of all the societies on campus? Wouldn't they lack the experience to be able to help and guide society committee members?

. . . . also, I feel that running of certain events are two tiered – with certain access/preference given to an elite few.

This is more worrying and definitely shouldn't happen. Can you give any examples?

douglashyde · 14-12-2009 3:44pm

When I said "people who participated in just one society where isolated", I didn’t mean that these people had not got a chance on getting onto the SPC or SU.

What I meant was that these people will make up the majority of the student body and their views are not represented - However I do realise that there is a paradox here. How can somebody’s views be represented when they don’t participate? - My answer would be, the SPC/SCC/SU should recognize this non-speaking bunch and actively try and get them involved. – I can from experience say that there are students part of societies I am involved with that love DCU and love the events they hold, but in no shape are form are these students being sought for after input by governing bodies.

I agree with you that it is human nature to vote for our friends, but surely if that is what is happening when people are being voted for on the SPC, then the voting system should be changed/improved?

Regarding the two tiered system, I can give examples, however I wont, due to my involvement within DCU I am in no position to give any sort of examples on this matter for now.

markpb · 14-12-2009 3:50pm

douglashyde wrote: »

I can from experience say that there are students part of societies I am involved with that love DCU and love the events they hold, but in no shape are form are these students being sought for after input by governing bodies.

I see where you're coming from but I think you misunderstand the aim of the SPC. They have two responsibilities - to divide the annual budget between all societies in a fair and transparent manner and to pick the winners at the end of year awards. Everything else is (rightly) in the hands of the societies.

If people think the type of events are wrong, they should join and influence an existing society or set up their own - SPC have no place in deciding the events. If not enough students are participating in society events, that is partly a fault of the societies and the SPC should step in to help but even then, apart from assisting or funding advertising, it's up to the societies to promote themselves.

I'm genuinely curious to know what suggestion a student would make to SPC (apart from changing the voting). I was on the SPC years ago so I'm obviously not the best person to judge things from an outsiders point of view.

john.needham · 14-12-2009 3:53pm

I know that your thoughts about the S.U being to tight nit over the years are one which are shared by members of the Union (me included, I'm eng/comp convenor). And thats something which we've tried to address this year, but its a tough task.

However if you want to get involved, feel free to call up to the S.U, I'v absolutely no doubt that Alan/John/Mel would love the offer of help. That sounds like Im taking the piss, but im really not. The S.U will certainly be needing as much help as we can get in rag week, so if you want to get involved, just say so (you dont have to be anyones friend, or part of any click

).

douglashyde · 14-12-2009 4:11pm

Thanks John and I know that the SU has made an effort to address this issue and infact I really do think that this years’ SU has by far been the best, however for real sustainable change I would think a massive restructuring of the SU would need to happen – and I don’t even know if this would be a feasible idea.

The more I think about this now, I think it comes down to human nature how these things end up being structured – and you cant change human nature.

Mark, as a student I would change the SPC and make its role a lot more known among regular students, publish the allocation grants in campus or on the website and vote for positions on the committee at the same time as the SU votes and allow regular students to vote.

My reason for posting this thread was because of an older thread getting closed, if all students HAVE TO pay the 38 euro reg, and this is how the SPC/SCC/SPC get their funding, then every single student is a stakeholder in these unions and committees and thus should have a view and say.

Or am I just rambling……….

robby^5 · 14-12-2009 4:25pm

douglashyde wrote: »

I agree with you that it is human nature to vote for our friends, but surely if that is what is happening when people are being voted for on the SPC, then the voting system should be changed/improved?

How so? Each society gets one vote and the committee of that society decide who gets their vote, which is fair since they're the elected volunteers who will be dealing with these people on a day-to-day basis running their society. So obviously they'll choose the people they know the best.

In my experience it's not even about personally knowing the people or being their friends, it's more like "oh I know him, he does loads of stuff for society x" so they get the vote.

Also it's common practice for socs to send more than one committee member to vote and it's not always going to be the case where everyone on a certain committee is going to like candidate x so they have decide what would be best for their soc amongst themselves. (this has been the case every time I've voted with gamessoc, there'd be a few of us there)

Landa2 · 14-12-2009 4:30pm

douglashyde wrote:

My reason for posting this thread was because of an older thread getting closed, if all students HAVE TO pay the 38 euro reg, and this is how the SPC/SCC/SPC get their funding, then every single student is a stakeholder in these unions and committees and thus should have a view and say.

Just on this point, every student does have a say in it, being a member of a club or society means you elect the people on that committee, including the treasurer who holds that societies vote when it comes to the elections to the SPC. This is in theory the same as the class rep system, where your class rep is your representitive on Union Council.

MonaghanPenguin · 14-12-2009 4:33pm

you don't seem to know the difference between the SPC and the SU and you're complaining that no one elected you to the SPC? Also in your opinion this other person was more qualified, in the opinions of others they weren't. That's democracy and all that jazz.

Landa2 · 14-12-2009 4:33pm

robby^5 wrote: »

(this has been the case every time I've voted with gamessoc, there'd be a few of us there)

To vote with different societies i hope.. Article 2 of the SPC Constitution states that each society is only allowed one voting representitive at any meeting of the SPC..

Membership:

1. The treasurer of each recognised society is entitled to membership of the SPC.

2. Treasurers of provisionally recognised societies may attend as observers at 
general meetings.

3. Although members of the Executive may be treasurers of individual societies, 
they should be very conscious that they are not representing their society on the 
Executive. Their aim should be that of the SPC, that is, to allocate funds in an 
efficient, fair and democratic manner.

4. A society can nominate an officer other than the treasurer to represent them. 
This person is entitled to vote, but the society must notify the Executive Secretary 
in writing at least twenty-four hours before the AGM of such a position.

john.needham · 14-12-2009 4:36pm

douglashyde wrote: »

but in no shape are form are these students being sought for after input by governing bodies.

Landa2 wrote: »

This is in theory the same as the class rep system, where your class rep is your representitive on Union Council.

On the S.U side, Union Council is us seeking input from the student body. While class reps are the only people who can vote (when thats necessary, its usually a discussion), anyone can go and give their opinion. We encourage as many people to attend as we can. The S.U does a better job when students give it feed back and say what they need, and thats the ideal forum to do just that.

douglashyde · 14-12-2009 4:49pm

Guys, as mentioned, i have no real problems at the moment with the SU and SPC, but it can't be denied that the student body could play a greater role in the running, I appreciate however, this is an extremely difficult task esp when so many students wont engage. - but maybe it should be looked at, why students wont engage?

markpb · 14-12-2009 4:52pm

douglashyde wrote: »

Guys, as mentioned, i have no real problems at the moment with the SU and SPC, but it can't be denied that the student body could play a greater role in the running, I appreciate however, this is an extremely difficult task esp when so many students wont engage. - but maybe it should be looked at, why students wont engage?

Assuming you're still talking about the SPC, maybe it's because the financial split of student capitation funds between societies doesn't interest your average student. Why would it?

irlande · 14-12-2009 5:17pm

I really disagree with what youre saying about it being a clique. When I ran for the SPC I was involved in realistically only one society running against a non-sabbatical union officer who also sat on something like 3 committees for societies.

I was by all means a complete nobody and an outsider in the eyes of all those voting and yet, I was elected.

The SPC voting system is a fair and democratic system, allowing every society a vote. As has been said above this is the same general principle of union council, which is the same principle of Dail Eireann and pretty much every elected legislature in the world (even the french).

As John said earlier, it does sound like a cliche but the Union, this year especially, are constantly open for involvement.

Choc123 · 14-12-2009 5:36pm

I will start off by saying that I think the three sabattical officers are very nice people.
However, not necessarily through their fault, the SU is a massive clique. The whole college knows it and anyone who disagrees, does so because they are in the clique.

How many people turned up to the UGM last week?Around 30 I do believe. 30 students out a student body of over 10,000?

How many people would turn up to the class rep meetings if there wasn't the promise of free food?

Name one thing the SU has done since the start of semester one (bar the opening of the NuBar) Are they planning on riding that wave all year long?

Sadly, it will be members of the cliques that run for and get sabbatical positions next semester. These candidates will promise to change things and make the union seem more accessible, and probably will fail.

There is no Union voice in this college whatsoever. Not going off topic but if the whole campus magazine error of judgement had happened anywhere else in the country, the editor's resignation would have been sought.

I'm not saying he should have resigned but it wouldn't matter if he had published anything whatsoever, the student movement hasn't the balls to do anything.
Shame on the class reps who claim to represent their peers. The majority of them only run so as to get into the Union.

Thats my two cents and it is an opinion, nothing else.

gizmo · 14-12-2009 5:56pm

There are several points worth mentioning thus far so I'll try and hit each of them in order...

douglashyde wrote: »

None the less I ran for an ordinary position within the SPC in my second year, there where two positions and five people ran. – not a word of a lie, my speech mentioned that the SPC, SU etc where very tight and clicky and as an outsider I would make a good addition. - I lost.

To be quite honest, on that basis alone I would not have vote for you purely as that statement demonstrated a fundamental misunderstanding of the structure of the organisation. More on that later though...

I believe Mark has sufficiently dealt with the issue of cliquishness vs. familiarity with regards the voting so I won't touch on that again. Needless to say I completely agree with him and feel the need to reiterate that this cannot be changed.

Regarding the two tier system with regards Societies this is something I do have experience in so I'd like to comment. Upon joining GamesSoc back in 2004 we were quite a small society. We had an extremely modest Grant App and a small but dedicated group of members. Over the following years, however, the society saw rapid expansion. We began running far bigger and more high profile events for not only our members but the general student populace, we made ties with other societies and helped them out at their events and we made a concentrated effort to increase our membership size.

With this expansion of course, we required a bigger grant app and so as we worked our arses off on the above we also put in a lot of time to our new application for funding and what do you know, we got nearly everything we asked for. Thus I put this to you, people should stop looking at what other societies are getting and ask themselves, as a committee, are we not getting what we need and why? Other societies get what they do because they've made a strong case for it and have a proven track record when it comes to delivering on their promises. If you don't have this then do something about it, there is nothing stopping you and the rewards as have been shown by the countless societies which have grown over the years, are well worth the effort.

douglashyde wrote: »

My reason for posting this thread was because of an older thread getting closed, if all students HAVE TO pay the 38 euro reg, and this is how the SPC/SCC/SPC get their funding, then every single student is a stakeholder in these unions and committees and thus should have a view and say.

As has been pointed out, they do have their say. SU via the main elections and SPC/SCC via the individual clubs and societies. Opening up the latter to elections similar to the SU would, in my opinion, be an extremely bad idea as, as Mark said above...

markpb wrote: »

Why do you think someone who doesn't involve themselves much in society life would be a good person to sit on the SPC and decide the financial fate of all the societies on campus? Wouldn't they lack the experience to be able to help and guide society committee members?

...something I think really needs to be remembered.

douglashyde wrote: »

I can from experience say that there are students part of societies I am involved with that love DCU and love the events they hold, but in no shape are form are these students being sought for after input by governing bodies.

How much seeking can the governing bodies do though? All they can do is extend the offer to provide feedback but they can't literally go out and MAKE people give input. At the moment students may drop-in to their offices, give them a phone call or send an email - the only thing left to do would be possibly put up some questionnaires on the portal pages for people to fill in.

douglashyde wrote: »

Guys, as mentioned, i have no real problems at the moment with the SU and SPC, but it can't be denied that the student body could play a greater role in the running, I appreciate however, this is an extremely difficult task esp when so many students wont engage. - but maybe it should be looked at, why students wont engage?

Because they don't want to, simple as that. The vast VAST majority of students who don't get involved in college life do so because they're just not bothered. They come to college, go to their lectures and then leave - that's all they're there for. They either do not recognise, or perhaps don't care about, the benefits attached to getting involved in extra curricular activities. So what can be done to attract these people? Unfortuantely, from what I can tell, very little. You can fight for lower prices on campus and they won't care, you can run information campaigns on getting to know your Union and they won't care and you can setup a new website designed to bring together the SU/SPC/SCC and have all of the info readily available for them at the touch of a button and they still won't care. Does that mean we should stop trying? Hell no, but at the same time you need to realise that this problem is one which will probably never be fully solved.

14-12-2009 5:59pm

Of course the SU is tight, then again, those people put in a lot of work and are generally everywhere around campus...

I could also give a guess as to who the future SU is by just watching who does be walking around the place

gizmo · 14-12-2009 6:14pm

Replying to this one separately as it revolves around a pretty self-contained issue...and my last post was long enough.

Choc123 wrote: »

However, not necessarily through their fault, the SU is a massive clique. The whole college knows it and anyone who disagrees, does so because they are in the clique.

Are you in a clique because...

you chose to get involved in extra curricular activities?
you make a bunch of new friends through these activities?
over time, you begin to learn how the various bodies work?
with this new knowledge you come to realise certain things need to be done to improve them and form some good ideas on how to do it?

If you've answered yes to any of the above then we have a problem because that is not the same as being in a clique.

Choc123 wrote: »

How many people turned up to the UGM last week?Around 30 I do believe. 30 students out a student body of over 10,000?

So are these 30 people in a clique? No, these 30 people evidently are about how the SU runs and are interesting on see how it may be improved. It's the other students who don't attend who should be looked at instead imo.

Choc123 wrote: »

How many people would turn up to the class rep meetings if there wasn't the promise of free food?

Probably 99% of them as, the fact that they even go shows they care about the role which they've been assigned. Again, it should be those that don't turn up who should be scrutinised.

Choc123 wrote: »

Name one thing the SU has done since the start of semester one (bar the opening of the NuBar) Are they planning on riding that wave all year long?

Not currently there so I won't comment however, as I indicated in another post, people really do have no idea what goes on beyond the big events the SU run. Countless students every year receive help from various SU officers that they couldn't get elsewhere and in many cases don't want anyone else to know about. There are also the slew of University meetings which they attend and ensure that, to the best of their abilities, students don't end up getting screwed over - either in general terms or their individual classes. Anyway, my point is, the SU isn't all about big gestures that people will always remember. It's about doing the basic things right and, when the time comes since people care so much, running successful events.

Choc123 wrote: »

Sadly, it will be members of the cliques that run for and get sabbatical positions next semester. These candidates will promise to change things and make the union seem more accessible, and probably will fail.

The first comment is completely incorrect. I, along with countless others, am proof of this. The year I ran I was great friends with the existing SU team and plenty of other C&S people, was Chair of a society which out of nowhere had been tipped for Best Soc, sat on Union Council and ran a pretty damn good election campaign. Did I win? Nope.

Cid-Highwind · 14-12-2009 6:22pm

douglashyde wrote: »

Mark, as a student I would change the SPC and make its role a lot more known among regular students, publish the allocation grants in campus or on the website and vote for positions on the committee at the same time as the SU votes and allow regular students to vote.

Having more awareness of what the SPC/SCC does would of course be nice, and the issues with websites are beyond the scope of the thread, but it's safe to say that would be nice too. Allocations and minutes have often been posted online before, in my time there was no policy of not doing it, just not a well organised system to publish information in an easy to read format.

As for publishing things in CAMPUS, remember that it says DCUSU on the cover, and is paid for directly by the SU budget. Club/Society pieces are printed there at the discretion of the Students' Union.

Allowing the student body as a whole to vote for the SPC/SCC though is a pretty terrible idea. I say this because these groups have a far more specific role than the Students Union, which represents students both within the university and on a larger scale.

The point of the SPC (I was on the SPC, so I'll talk about that, but the SCC is fairly similar) is to represent the interests of societies.

First off, what is the SPC, because it's not what everyone thinks it is. The membership of the SPC is every society treasurer, and what is generally called the 'spc' is a subcommittee, the SPC executive committee. The SPC meets yearly to elect this committee to act on it's behalf for day to day matters, but the overall budget allocation (the main role of the SPC) is still deferred to the larger committee for approval.

So, what is the role of the SPC (executive)?

Budget Allocation. This is really it's main role. It's given a percentage of the overall allocation for student activities, and it must ensure that this money is spread as widely as possible to benefit as many as possible. Obviously, compromises have to be made because the funds are limited, but we managed to support most things which were proposed in my time, so I'd say the SPC is fairly successsful in this area.
Representation. Societies should for the most part, organise themselves. The autonomy involved is part of the fun, "as long as it doesn't break the rules, organise what you want", but as a mechanism for dealing with other university bodies it's pretty poor. The SPC is represented on the Office of Student Life, and the Hub management committee to address the concerns of societies (contrast this with the dozens of committees the SU has representation on)
Support. Essentially, there's only 20-26 weeks a year where society activities happen. People need support - Formal, in terms of the training organised, and informal, in terms of the rep system where societies have an SPC contact to discuss things with. This is essential in getting started quickly and making the most of the time.

To do this in your spare time (remember, the SU executive it twice the size of the SPC executive and has three full time paid officers) requires people who have significant previous experience of societies that they can bring to the job.

The scope of the job is limited specifically to issues affecting societies, and has very little influence in comparison with the SU.

My point here is that being on the SPC requires a proven skillset to get a specific job done, rather than the more broad representation of the student body, and while the current system isn't perfect, it's better than any other alternative at achieving the required result.

My reason for posting this thread was because of an older thread getting closed, if all students HAVE TO pay the 38 euro reg, and this is how the SPC/SCC/SPC get their funding, then every single student is a stakeholder in these unions and committees and thus should have a view and say.

And I would argue that they do have their say, it's just not as transparent. Every society has an input into the election of the executive committee, and the decision on the budget. Societies vote to get the best for their membership. If you're not a member of a society (remember, it's very easy to start one if there isn't one for your hobby/interest) then there's no scope for the SPC to represent you.

Cid-Highwind · 14-12-2009 6:48pm

Choc123 wrote: »

I will start off by saying that I think the three sabattical officers are very nice people.
However, not necessarily through their fault, the SU is a massive clique. The whole college knows it and anyone who disagrees, does so because they are in the clique.

No offense, but I have a pretty big problem with this 'blame the clique' attitude.

wikipedia wrote:

A clique is an exclusive group of people who share interests, views, purposes, patterns of behavior, or ethnicity. A clique as a reference group can be either normative or comparative. Membership in a clique is often, but not necessarily, exclusive, and qualifications for membership may be social or essential to the nature of the clique. The term 'clique' may be used pejoratively.

I appreciate that it may seem that way 'from the outside', but rarely have I seen that peception to be based in fact, or the fault of those 'on the inside'

Certainly, some of the characteristics can be applied to the SU (and other DCU groups):

Patterns of behavoiur: Most people involved in these things are interested, motvated, and enjoy working on projects with other people for the satisfaction of doing it, rather than any other reward
People in the clique in question often share the same interests, if you're not interested then you're hardly going to sign up

However, that's where the similarities end. I knew no one in DCU when I arrived 4 and a half years ago. I found some interesting looking things to get involved in, met people with whom I shared interests, and ended up getting involved in different things. My point here is that it's not exclusive. There's obviously important positions that are likely to be given to people who have experience and proven themselves before, but that's common sense. Every group I've been involved in has encouraged and welcomed involvement by new people.

What I've rarely seen is immediate agreement on anything but the most trivial of matters. People involved in the SU and other bodies rarely share the same views and opinions on everything, and 'heated debates' are common. This is a good thing, discussion of differing view points leads to better decisions.

That said, I do acknowledge that there is a problem, my argument is that the problem is perception from 'the outside' rather than an actual clique. This is the problem that you're not presenting a solution to, and the problem that everyone would like addressed. As has been acknowledged by others, attendance at meetings organised by the SU is pretty poor, what can be done to encourage more people to become involved?

Cid-Highwind · 14-12-2009 6:53pm

gizmo wrote: »

The first comment is completely incorrect. I, along with countless others, am proof of this. The year I ran I was great friends with the existing SU team and plenty of other C&S people, was Chair of a society which out of nowhere had been tipped for Best Soc, sat on Union Council and ran a pretty damn good election campaign. Did I win? Nope.

I can also be counted in there

Art_Wolf · 14-12-2009 7:22pm

There does appear to be a problem here that if someone who attempted to get involved with the SU was not easily able to do so.

They did try if they found out and attended the SPC election. It is a pitty that they were put off from continuing their efforts from that one meeting.

What could be done to avoid this happening in future? If someone was not able to get involved after standing up in front of a group of strangers than the student who takes no notice of the posters is a lost cause.

Maybe it's an idea that the SU make it easier for people to volunteer and participate in the SU? Big "Get Involved" button on their website with info on the different things people could be working on?

You can get involved through volunteer work for the SU, being a class rep and club & soc committees occasionally work with the SU - any other options people know of?

Shea O'Meara · 14-12-2009 8:01pm

It's natural for there to be groups which seem exclusive, as posted like minded people will gravitate to each other. I've been in a few societies and been involved with SU activities. There is the perception that no outsiders are welcome, which is generally nonsense. Unfortunately for the majority of SU/SOC folk there will always be CV hounds, in it for the padding. Nothing wrong with wanting a broader base to your CV, but it shouldn't be the only driving force when you are representing the views of others.
Thankfully IMO there has only been a few, who usually become transparent over time. This is where I believe everybody gets tarred with the same brush. I've seen and heard people take the odd minor role, work their way in and show little regard for students or in some cases fellow officers. People who decide to run for a particular office and then decide why, or more accurately, what they are going to say the reason is if asked. Certain publications will go after a candidate, write a fluff piece on one or completely disregard another. I stress, this is not common, but it's remembered when it does occur.
It can seem to people outside of student activities that three or four SU officers call all the shots. Anyone in the know, knows this is nonsense, but again, if you're not involved, it can look that way. Point is I can see where doug is coming from.

Cid-Highwind · 14-12-2009 8:04pm

douglashyde wrote: »

My reason for posting this thread was because of an older thread getting closed, if all students HAVE TO pay the 38 euro reg, and this is how the SPC/SCC/SPC get their funding,

I should have clarified this earlier, as it wasn't pointed out on the previous thread, the €38 doesn't go to fund the SPC/SU/whatever, it's the student center levy, the money goes to repay the loan that was taken out to build the Hub.

The money that funds the SU/SPC/SCC comes from the registration fee. The university gives a certain amount per student to the Office of Student Life. After shared costs like staff etc., the remainder of the budget is divided between the SU, SPC and SCC. At the end of every second academic year the ratio of this split is reviewed, based on who is under/over budget etc.

phantom_lord · 14-12-2009 8:23pm

what are the SPC and SCC?

cocoa · 14-12-2009 8:31pm

This is something I've been meaning to ask through the proper channels but I thought I may as well throw it out here too... Does the SPC's TGM have any real meaning? To me, it seems utterly pointless, treasurers are given a very, very quick glance over money allocated, without a hard copy in front of them or a soft copy circulated in advance, and then asked to vote on it. How could anyone possibly have an opinion based on that?

I mean, it's a large amount of information and trying to get every single treasurer to agree is quite a task, which is why an executive is the only logical way to do it, quickly running it past everyone else once the outline has been made, but running it past this quickly seems utterly pointless to me.

Urizen · 14-12-2009 8:48pm

phantom_lord wrote: »

what are the SPC and SCC?

Societies & Publications Committee and Sports Clubs Committee.

cocoa wrote: »

This is something I've been meaning to ask through the proper channels but I thought I may as well throw it out here too... Does the SPC's TGM have any real meaning? To me, it seems utterly pointless, treasurers are given a very, very quick glance over money allocated, without a hard copy in front of them or a soft copy circulated in advance, and then asked to vote on it. How could anyone possibly have an opinion based on that?

I mean, it's a large amount of information and trying to get every single treasurer to agree is quite a task, which is why an executive is the only logical way to do it, quickly running it past everyone else once the outline has been made, but running it past this quickly seems utterly pointless to me.

The TGM is essentially so people know what's going on. I'm sure you could make a whole weekend of it (or longer, knowing how much work goes into grant apps). That is, however, impractical. Possibly a hard copy in front of you would make it easier to understand, but making the meeting longer is a bit pointless.
It's essentially a confirmation of what each individual society got, so you know for yourself. Any questions I'm sure can be addressed to the SPC afterwards, if neccessary.

cocoa · 14-12-2009 9:23pm

Urizen wrote: »

The TGM is essentially so people know what's going on. I'm sure you could make a whole weekend of it (or longer, knowing how much work goes into grant apps). That is, however, impractical. Possibly a hard copy in front of you would make it easier to understand, but making the meeting longer is a bit pointless.
It's essentially a confirmation of what each individual society got, so you know for yourself. Any questions I'm sure can be addressed to the SPC afterwards, if neccessary.

If it's purely so each individual soc knows for itself, a simple e-mail or letter would be far more appropriate, as it is it has the appearance that a vote is taken on the allocations, when, with so little information it is totally meaningless.

monument · 15-12-2009 1:43am

Choc123 wrote: »

Name one thing the SU has done since the start of semester one (bar the opening of the NuBar) Are they planning on riding that wave all year long?

I'm guessing they are doing everyday work rather than trying make headlines.

Choc123 wrote: »

There is no Union voice in this college whatsoever. Not going off topic but if the whole campus magazine error of judgement had happened anywhere else in the country, the editor's resignation would have been sought.

I'm not saying he should have resigned but it wouldn't matter if he had published anything whatsoever, the student movement hasn't the balls to do anything.

You're not saying he should have resigned? Then what do you mean by "if the whole campus magazine error of judgement had happened anywhere else in the country, the editor's resignation would have been sought"? What was the point in saying that if you don't think he should have resigned?

Choc123 wrote: »

Shame on the class reps who claim to represent their peers. The majority of them only run so as to get into the Union.

Shame on them for what exactly?

gizmo wrote: »

Because they don't want to, simple as that. The vast VAST majority of students who don't get involved in college life do so because they're just not bothered. They come to college, go to their lectures and then leave - that's all they're there for. They either do not recognise, or perhaps don't care about, the benefits attached to getting involved in extra curricular activities. So what can be done to attract these people? ....:(

And I was just thinking nobody has mentioned apathy.

I've heard way too many people give out about college life or DCU's socs and the same people won't join the socs or won't get involved much.

robby^5 · 15-12-2009 10:48am

Landa2 wrote: »

To vote with different societies i hope.. Article 2 of the SPC Constitution states that each society is only allowed one voting representitive at any meeting of the SPC..

Membership:

1. The treasurer of each recognised society is entitled to membership of the SPC.

2. Treasurers of provisionally recognised societies may attend as observers at 
general meetings.

3. Although members of the Executive may be treasurers of individual societies, 
they should be very conscious that they are not representing their society on the 
Executive. Their aim should be that of the SPC, that is, to allocate funds in an 
efficient, fair and democratic manner.

4. A society can nominate an officer other than the treasurer to represent them. 
This person is entitled to vote, but the society must notify the Executive Secretary 
in writing at least twenty-four hours before the AGM of such a position.

Silly rule, we always sent a few people and we weren't the only soc to do so.

It's not even enforced (which could be done by simply saying only 1 rep per soc at the start of a general meeting) which is a good thing. I think it's a much better way of voting to send more than one committee member from each soc as this way you have a consensus on who each soc will vote for as not everyone knows who will be running beforehand. Giving one person free reign to vote for whoever they like is just silly.

If this rule was enforced it would just impact further on attendance at general meetings, which usually start late or end up with people looking for representatives from socs because they cant get quorum. It's been like that the three times I've been there to vote for a new SPC.

markpb · 15-12-2009 10:59am

cocoa wrote: »

This is something I've been meaning to ask through the proper channels but I thought I may as well throw it out here too... Does the SPC's TGM have any real meaning? To me, it seems utterly pointless, treasurers are given a very, very quick glance over money allocated, without a hard copy in front of them or a soft copy circulated in advance, and then asked to vote on it. How could anyone possibly have an opinion based on that?

I totally agree, it's always a disappointing event because it could be (and should be) so much more. Unfortunately in my year, some grant apps came in late, some decisions were hard to make and the whole process ran late. We finished the last of the grant apps the night before the TGM so there was barely enough time to prepare the documents for the treasurers. It's always a hectic time of year so the TGM gets less priority than it should. Those aren't excuses btw, we should have done better.

douglashyde · 15-12-2009 11:24am

When I started this article, my initial point about the SU is that it is a very tight nit group, however after thinking about it, this isn’t the big issue and I have to agree with most of the comments, however,

The SU is a representative of DCU’s entire student body, including those who don’t participate – after all, we are all members without choice.

Now to say that the SU is NOT a tight group, is blind, it is human nature for this to happen. Now, to say that it is hard to get into this tight group is debatable, however what is clear is that the majority of the student body don’t WANT to get in/involved – WHY?

Perception – I think it is clear that the majority of the student body, who, the SU represent would have a perception of the SU that would equate to a negative sentiment score. (disclaimer: not my opinion of the SU).

So what’s to be done? Personal I believe that the promise’s made by candidates at elections are only made because you have to promise something. The only way to change perception is to overhaul the SU – or at least to be seen to overhaul the SU – to get these alienated view points of the SU to change and get these people on the SU’s side – the core perception of the SU needs changing.

Regarding the SPC, this is a separate issue - if the SPC's only role is to allocate funds, which I belive it does very well - then it is run brilliantally, however if it's role is also includes promoting social and club life within DCU, then it represent's ALL the Student Body, including those who never joined a club in their lifes. . .

MonaghanPenguin · 15-12-2009 11:31am

douglashyde wrote: »

Regarding the SPC, this is a separate issue - if the SPC's only role is to allocate funds, which I belive it does very well - then it is run brilliantally, however if it's role is also includes promoting social and club life within DCU, then it represent's ALL the Student Body, including those who never joined a club in their lifes. . .

The SU stuff in a minute. But the SPC isn't there to promote social life in DCU and clubs are covered by the SCC. The SPC allocates money to Societies, it's up to each society then to promote their own social events. If the SPC allocates money and the society doesn't bother to organise the event it asked for then the money doesn't get spent. It's that simple

MonaghanPenguin · 15-12-2009 12:10pm

Ok, my experience in DCU:
When I arrived here I'd taken a few years out, so the majority of my friends from home were in final year. I spent all of first year not caring about the SU, Clubs, Societies, anything outside of my course and my mates. And I was very happy going to lectures, going back to theirs playing PES and going to Quinns.

Then in second year I became a class rep and got mildly involved with Debate Soc and another, small society. Outside of those two societies I doubt many people who have had a notion who I was other than maybe "that guy in Spar." Then at the end of that year I decided to run for the SU Exec. I never really thought I had a chance of winning but I wanted to give it a go. It was the same year Gizmo ran for President. There were four of us in that race, two people who would be considered to be part of the "clique" that people think it is, and two of us who were nothing like part of it. I ended up winning that election surprising a lot of people.

But from the moment I put my name forward those people who, at the time I must admit, I would have thought were part of this "clique" accepted me and made sure I never felt excluded. Just by running and showing interest I was taken in. A year later I was President. Now my best friends are all/were all on the SU exec or the SPC and even my girlfriend is on exec.

If the SU or SPC (this thread is a little messy because people don't seem to realise they aren't the same thing even if they work closely together) was this exclusive clique that never admited new people into it's ranks then both organisations would soon die out as people graduated and weren't replaced. And my journey through the ranks would not have been possible.

Is there a problem then? Yes, most certainly. Even if this clique doesn't exist, the perception that it does is there. People have gone on on this thread about people making empty promises at election time about being more open and accessible and then ignoring these promises when in office. Well honestly I defy you to come on here and say ANY President or other sabbatical officers have gone into their jobs and tried to close shop and ranks around them. No one who runs for these jobs does so planning to do a bad job. So what causes this perception of a clique? Well I think a few things.

1) Communication. If there was one thing I know let me down when I was President, it was communication. However, and this is something I believe runs through everything wrong (and there's much more right) about the SU, it's two-fold, no SU has found the perfect way to communicate with students I'll be the first to admit, but then again even if they did there are a lot of students out there who will ignore it either intentionally or because of apathy.

2) Human Nature as mentioned above. Simply by the nature of the job, the people I was always going to be closest to were Susan and Dave, after that Exec after that the people who got involved most. We spent SO much time together you're either going to be best friends or hate each other. And if you hate each other, you're not going to get anything done. Therefore when things work right you become tight-nit as a group of friends and people mistake this for being a clique because everyone becomes so close. We would have welcomed anyone who wanted to get involved to join that group and indeed as the year went on people did, but I get why to an outsider it might look impenetrable.

3) Maths. There are 11 SU Exec Officers in DCU. There are 10,000 students in DCU. Even if every exec officer befriended 100 different new people then you'd be barely over ten percent of the students in DCU. There's always going to be a certain feeling of distance from the Union the exact same as the population of Ireland is going to have a feeling of distance from the Dail.

4) Indifference. Last year the single biggest issue of the year? The bar. The second (and should have been biggest) fees. When every student was invited to numerous meetings or events about fees, how many showed up? When we held a Union Council where every student was invited to show up with suggestions or to vent their anger at me how many showed up? I think it's well known that I'm not a big fan of the college view but how many students actually bother to read it or Campus to find out what's going on and how many just walk past them not caring? What's the listenership for DCUFM?

I'm not saying SU Officers have been completely in the right, I'm not saying this wall of indifference has been completely in the wrong. But take it from someone who has been at the centre of this perceived "clique", when you try your best and throw so much effort into organising avenues for people to get involved, and no one shows up, it's hardly like you go away congratulating yourself that you've preserved the status quo for your mates.

monument · 15-12-2009 12:33pm

douglashyde wrote: »

Now to say that the SU is NOT a tight group, is blind, it is human nature for this to happen. Now, to say that it is hard to get into this tight group is debatable, however what is clear is that the majority of the student body don’t WANT to get in/involved – WHY?

Maybe apathy?

Grudaire · 15-12-2009 1:34pm

robby^5 wrote: »

It's not even enforced (which could be done by simply saying only 1 rep per soc at the start of a general meeting) which is a good thing. I think it's a much better way of voting to send more than one committee member from each soc as this way you have a consensus on who each soc will vote for as not everyone knows who will be running beforehand. Giving one person free reign to vote for whoever they like is just silly.

If this rule was enforced it would just impact further on attendance at general meetings, which usually start late or end up with people looking for representatives from socs because they cant get quorum. It's been like that the three times I've been there to vote for a new SPC.

Afaik it is enforced by the SCC (ie they look at the sign in sheet, kick out the lost society committee members, then only give out as many voting cards as there are clubs - simple but works)

A bigger complaint IMO is how late the grant app came out this year, beyond this I have no complaints with the SCC!

douglashyde · 15-12-2009 1:58pm

It’s not correct to put the student bodies’ lack of involvement down to apathy, because that is suggesting, they are not just not interested in SU and a college social life to begin with.

I think we can look at the clubs and societies as a good example of the large student base that do get involved in the college but not the students union.

And when we look at the perception of the SU that the student body has we can quickly realise that the problem isn’t empathy at all, it’s a view the student union are a “clicky” close group of “mates” – this perception is what I feel most of the student body has – however without proper research and sample sizes we cant be sure.

I agree about what you said about communication being a hard thing to master and human nature causing close relationships within groups, however this should not allow way for a negative perception of the SU.

Regarding the simple ratio difference to SU exec to student body size, surely to represent the entire student body, the resource should be there to contact on a personal level with every single student. – how many actually read their emails from the SU.
Otherwise what’s happening is that those with the loudest voice are the ones being represented. –It’s a union, not a political party.

Indifference among students is expected, not all students use the bar, not all students pay reg fees, not all students go to events.

If I where to sum up the prime goal of not just the student union, but any union for that matter, it would be to unite and represent all its members on all matters. DCUSU may cater to an extent for this to happen but do you honestly believe that’s what’s actually happening?

MonaghanPenguin · 15-12-2009 2:38pm

douglashyde wrote: »

It’s not correct to put the student bodies’ lack of involvement down to apathy, because that is suggesting, they are not just not interested in SU and a college social life to begin with.

I think we can look at the clubs and societies as a good example of the large student base that do get involved in the college but not the students union.

Ah now. Given that there are about 3000 memembers of Clubs and Socs each year, of these the vast majority are people involved in maybe one or two and just attend events in areas they are already involved in. The number of people who actually organise events is a lot smaller. The number of people who care about society life outside of their own interests is even smaller again. I'm not saying that all of these categories of people don't deserve credit for what they do, but lets not mistake ourselves that organising a poker game for your mates is the same as taking an active interest in the college or it's life.

douglashyde wrote: »

And when we look at the perception of the SU that the student body has we can quickly realise that the problem isn’t empathy at all, it’s a view the student union are a “clicky” close group of “mates” – this perception is what I feel most of the student body has – however without proper research and sample sizes we cant be sure.

I'm assuming you meant apathy and not empathy. I'm telling you now, anyone who wants to get involved in the SU can. Run for class rep, go to Union Council and stand up for what you believe in. If you don't think apathy isn't a problem (in Ireland, not just in DCU) then you need to take a look around you.

douglashyde wrote: »

I agree about what you said about communication being a hard thing to master and human nature causing close relationships within groups, however this should not allow way for a negative perception of the SU.

Regarding the simple ratio difference to SU exec to student body size, surely to represent the entire student body, the resource should be there to contact on a personal level with every single student. – how many actually read their emails from the SU.
Otherwise what’s happening is that those with the loudest voice are the ones being represented. –It’s a union, not a political party.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Whether or not you're blaming people for not reading their emails. There are numerous ways for any student to contact an SU Officer, email adresses and phone numbers (For sabbats) are freely available, anyone is free to attend Union Council and every class is supposed to have at least two reps there anyways, how many classes care if their class rep shows up or not. The Sabbats have a completely open door policy too, the work I'm proudest of from my time is with individual students who came to the door with a problem that I helped them out with. If you want to contact any SU officer, do it right now, it's easy.

My point about the ratio in sizes was misunderstood. I didn't mean it was a barrier to communication, I meant it was impossible for SU Exec people to be friends with everyone and to have a personal relationship with every individual, therefore there was always going to be some level of disconnect no matter how hard you try.

douglashyde wrote: »

Indifference among students is expected, not all students use the bar, not all students pay reg fees, not all students go to events.

If I where to sum up the prime goal of not just the student union, but any union for that matter, it would be to unite and represent all its members on all matters. DCUSU may cater to an extent for this to happen but do you honestly believe that’s what’s actually happening?

These last two points contradict each other.

gizmo · 15-12-2009 3:00pm

douglashyde wrote: »

It’s not correct to put the student bodies’ lack of involvement down to apathy, because that is suggesting, they are not just not interested in SU and a college social life to begin with.

Unfortunately it is correct and it's definitely something you notice more the larger your involvement in extra curricular activities is. To give a few examples...

a) During the election campaign I was asked to hurry up during a brief talk to 4th years as, and I quote, "Why should we care about next year's SU if we're not even going to be here."

b) Upon asking different people had they voted, their replies included "Why should I?", "*laughs* No." and my very favourite "What's in it for me?".

c) Being asked by my room mate why I was bothering going to "another one of those society meetings" on the usual day. This was despite me being Chair of said society.

d) Hearing complaints from people about "those bloody SU emails" despite the fact that they were infrequent and filled with info on various events and reminders of services available to the student body.

douglashyde wrote: »

I think we can look at the clubs and societies as a good example of the large student base that do get involved in the college but not the students union.

Yes but those C&S fulfill a very specific role to solely their membership. Working as part of the SU means doing stuff which benefits the entire college, it means having a certain level of responsibility for their welfare (if you don't understand this then you don't understand the role of the SU, period) and it means taking a year out of your life to do the job. While involvement in C&S is good training for this kind of role it's still a totally different ballgame.

douglashyde · 15-12-2009 3:45pm

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

Ah now. Given that there are about 3000 memembers of Clubs and Socs each year, of these the vast majority are people involved in maybe one or two and just attend events in areas they are already involved in. The number of people who actually organise events is a lot smaller. The number of people who care about society life outside of their own interests is even smaller again. I'm not saying that all of these categories of people don't deserve credit for what they do, but lets not mistake ourselves that organising a poker game for your mates is the same as taking an active interest in the college or it's life.

I don't know if the poker game comment was a personal stab at me, but it was a low shot if it was, but let’s let it rest at that.

When you said that the majority of people are involved in one or two clubs, your right! However this majority is the student body, the student body the SU should represent!! . . . . that being said, this years SU has done a great job on closing the gap that's developed between the student body and SU in previous years.

Also when you mention 3000 people who join clubs and socs, this is 3000 people who show an initial interest in developing extra curricular activity within DCU – what is happening to cause these numbers to drop?

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I'm assuming you meant apathy and not empathy. I'm telling you now, anyone who wants to get involved in the SU can. Run for class rep, go to Union Council and stand up for what you believe in. If you don't think apathy isn't a problem (in Ireland, not just in DCU) then you need to take a look around you.

Yes, I meant apathy.

Yes anyone can get involved, but I wouldn’t say it’s an easy task unless you’re in a certain situation. But let’s forget that for a minute, let’s look at this;

Say your right and anyone can get involved with the SU with ease....only a small portion of students will WANT to get involved, but that’s not to say that they don’t want to be represented. At this moment I have no intention of running for any SU position however I’d certainly hope that I am a student am being represented by my SU. Let’s take an example, one that affects a large chunk of students:

Grievances with lectures/courses/timetables etc..... In these cases most students go to their class rep (a SU position as it stands). the class rep then goes to the lecturer and represents the student. But how many class reps actually report back to the SU or attend the Union Council - I know it to be a very low amount.

Now you might say that, if the problem is sorted then why bother going to the SU exec’s? Because students should be linked in with their Union. Because the Union should be aware of current academic problems and because the class rep is only the first in the chain of the SU.

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Whether or not you're blaming people for not reading their emails. There are numerous ways for any student to contact an SU Officer, email adresses and phone numbers (For sabbats) are freely available, anyone is free to attend Union Council and every class is supposed to have at least two reps there anyways, how many classes care if their class rep shows up or not. The Sabbats have a completely open door policy too, the work I'm proudest of from my time is with individual students who came to the door with a problem that I helped them out with. If you want to contact any SU officer, do it right now, it's easy.

This touches on my last point, which said that DCUSU caters to represent the student body but does it that what is exactly happening?

What I meant here is that, the system is in place to contact and be contactable by the student body. None the less this does this contact actually happen? I would say no. I used the example of people reading their SU emails, why are people not reading them? My answer would be that they do not feel the SU is relevant to them. - If it’s not relevant, should it not be made relevant or get these people involved in issues, otherwise why bother letting these people pay for membership?

I know we are sort of going around in circles here and I don’t know how much more can be said on either of our sides, I certainly appreciate your points and, however please appreciate these comments have been the most park, mark, gizmo and Monahan penguin and me, all of which expect myself are ex or current SU /SPC members.

douglashyde · 15-12-2009 3:57pm

Regarding your first points, this is exactly my point, I would imagine that people don’t see the SU as important to them. That’s not to say that it is or isn’t. its just these people’s PERCEPTION of the SU…. Again as mentioned before in my other posts, this perception needs to be changed!!! How? I haven’t a clue.

My point about the Clubs and Socs was that people do have an interest with their college life. While this is not relevant to the SU, it still shows that people don’t just go to lecturers and go home, if people are tickled the right way, they will get involved.

And my core understanding of any union is to unite its members. And as brought up in another closed forum is that membership is compulsory so the entire student base should a united front – otherwise why charge membership.

I love DCU and would not go to any other college, I also think that the SU have done a brilliant job running events and dealing with major tasks, however I believe there is a core issue of isolation of the majority of the student base that exists.

I’m done writing on this thing for the day as its taking up way to much time.

gizmo · 15-12-2009 4:24pm

douglashyde wrote: »

Also when you mention 3000 people who join clubs and socs, this is 3000 people who show an initial interest in developing extra curricular activity within DCU – what is happening to cause these numbers to drop?

As I said in my previous post, that is because SU work can be seen as more "boring" than society work. For instance, why get involved in Games Soc? Because you like Games. What about Poker Soc? Because you like Poker. So what about the SU then?

douglashyde wrote: »

Say your right and anyone can get involved with the SU with ease....only a small portion of students will WANT to get involved, but that’s not to say that they don’t want to be represented. At this moment I have no intention of running for any SU position however I’d certainly hope that I am a student am being represented by my SU.

Again this has been covered, you are being represented, it's just that this level of representation does not require a headline every time the SU, for example, attend a meeting on your behalf. Likewise, personal issues which the SU deal with on behalf of the students will never be publicised either by the SU or the student themselves.

douglashyde wrote: »

Let’s take an example, one that affects a large chunk of students:

Grievances with lectures/courses/timetables etc..... In these cases most students go to their class rep (a SU position as it stands). the class rep then goes to the lecturer and represents the student. But how many class reps actually report back to the SU or attend the Union Council - I know it to be a very low amount.

This is a problem alright, however the SU cannot force reps to attend, it just wouldn't work. In that case the students themselves in the class should make sure their rep is attending and then if not, call for a new one to be elected.

douglashyde wrote: »

Now you might say that, if the problem is sorted then why bother going to the SU exec’s? Because students should be linked in with their Union. Because the Union should be aware of current academic problems and because the class rep is only the first in the chain of the SU.

Quite right, just because a class isn't having a specific issue does not mean they should refrain from going to UC. However, this relates to my previous point, the students should ensure that their elected representatives are attending so that they themselves are kept in the loop.

douglashyde wrote: »

What I meant here is that, the system is in place to contact and be contactable by the student body. None the less this does this contact actually happen? I would say no.

Do the majority of the students require one-to-one face time with the SU exec? No. However, do not mistake the majority for the entirety as I can assure you that on a day-to-day basis the exec help far more students than you realise, none of which you will ever hear about as they are personal issues.

douglashyde wrote: »

I used the example of people reading their SU emails, why are people not reading them? My answer would be that they do not feel the SU is relevant to them. - If it’s not relevant, should it not be made relevant or get these people involved in issues, otherwise why bother letting these people pay for membership?

It's not relevant to them until they have a problem. When that happens we'll see how much they'll appreciate them but just like everything else in life, people will always talk about or post about it when things go wrong or aren't working but are never as quick to report back when something goes well.

Shea O'Meara · 15-12-2009 5:04pm

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

...People have gone on on this thread about people making empty promises at election time about being more open and accessible and then ignoring these promises when in office. Well honestly I defy you to come on here and say ANY President or other sabbatical officers have gone into their jobs and tried to close shop and ranks around them.

You've made some good points which I agree with, however I accept your challenge on the above.

It has happened that when anyone who let's say, is not involved directly or affiliated with the SU (in a society with an officer for example), makes a complaint or puts forward a criticism the wagons circle. Even if it is a valid non-mudslinging concern. By wagons circle I mean it ends up with one guy or girl against several, it begins to take on a sarky tone. I've seen this happen on here, on Life and at various speaking engagements.
If you want specifics of closed ranks regarding Sabbatical officers check the archives on life, although that particular Pres deleted most of them, (made an admission which should be up there still), then there was the Pres who was in talks with Ferdy for a job after term and the officers who slagged off a number of students for simply posing valid gripes such as 'what ever happened to the rip-off campaign?'. Most recently on a minor level, the whole 'bum chum' childishness. And people who worked on Campus, then had the cheek to slag it off in election speeches on how they'd improve it if elected. Also I know a guy went to the SU a couple of years back regarding an issue with a lecturer only to be told he's on his own. This is not the norm, but it happens.

Choc123 · 15-12-2009 10:44pm

Three Questions: All Hypothetical
1) Are SU sabbaticals allowed to be reelected?
2) Are those who have served as sabbatical officers in the past (say 2 years ago) allowed to run again for the same or a different position?
3)What would people think if any of the two above actually happened. Do students think sabbatical officers should serve their year and then move on?

john.needham · 15-12-2009 11:05pm

Choc123 wrote: »

Three Questions: All Hypothetical
1) Are SU sabbaticals allowed to be reelected?
2) Are those who have served as sabbatical officers in the past (say 2 years ago) allowed to run again for the same or a different position?
3)What would people think if any of the two above actually happened. Do students think sabbatical officers should serve their year and then move on?

Yes they can run again, I believe it happened a good few years ago.

More here.

And that may be going slightly off topic for this thread.

gizmo · 15-12-2009 11:39pm

Indeed, all valid questions but please leave it for another thread.

SU Hard to get in on

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