Car seized for nothing

luger205

My car have been seized today because of missing insurance disc. I have paid the insurance a week ago and I am waiting to finally get the certificate. I gave my policy ID to the gardai member and he told me that it is a nice story, but he does not believe me and he thinks that I simply did not pay for the insurance and took my car.

Now I have been left waiting for the certificate and the depository fee keeps growing each day. Obviously I am punished for something I did not commit (driving without insurance).

I am afraid of the situation when I am not going to be able to pay for it.

What would you guys do if you were me?

Victor

Well get your documents and prove you have insurance. Its an offence to not display a disk.

testicle

luger205 wrote: »

My car have been seized today because of missing insurance disc. I have paid the insurance a week ago and I am waiting to finally get the certificate. I gave my policy ID to the gardai member and he told me that it is a nice story, but he does not believe me and he thinks that I simply did not pay for the insurance and took my car.

Now I have been left waiting for the certificate and the depository fee keeps growing each day. Obviously I am punished for something I did not commit (driving without insurance).

I am afraid of the situation when I am not going to be able to pay for it.

What would you guys do if you were me?

The offence is driving without displaying a disc. Guilty as charged. It's not really a big deal though.

Hooch

Get a car transporter and the vehicle will be released to you once the fee is paid.

Then produce the certificate once it arrives.

Neil_Sedaka

As Victor and testicle pointed out (in case you missed it, or the importance of it)
"It's an offence to not display a disk"

No disky, no drivey!



Hope you get it sorted.

luger205

Neil_Sedaka wrote: »

As Victor and testicle pointed out (in case you missed it, or the importance of it)
"It's an offence to not display a disk"

No disky, no drivey!

Hope you get it sorted.

I thought that I am aloud to drive in the period when waiting for the disk...? The period is covered by the policy anyway.

Jo King

A disc does not have to be displayed in the 10 days after the insurance was arranged.
S.I. No. 355/1984:

ROAD TRAFFIC (INSURANCE DISC) REGULATIONS, 1984.
5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

luger205

Jo King wrote: »

A disc does not have to be displayed in the 10 days after the insurance was arranged.
S.I. No. 355/1984:

ROAD TRAFFIC (INSURANCE DISC) REGULATIONS, 1984.
5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

Thank you sir!

Now somebody please explain why my car is not in front of my house despite the fact that I clearly explained to garda, that I paid for it a week ago, which is less than 10 days, obviously...

sunnyjim

luger205 wrote: »

Thank you sir!

Now somebody please explain why my car is not in front of my house despite the fact that I clearly explained to garda, that I paid for it a week ago, which is less than 10 days, obviously...

That's what I'm wondering. Consider the act of buying a car from a dealer, ringing up and sorting insurance and then driving home - tens of thousands do it every year, no disc!

You bumped into the wrong Garda at the wrong time.

testicle

luger205 wrote: »

Thank you sir!

Now somebody please explain why my car is not in front of my house despite the fact that I clearly explained to garda, that I paid for it a week ago, which is less than 10 days, obviously...

Do you look like a scumbag? Perhaps the Garda didn't believe you...

luger205

testicle wrote: »

Do you look like a scumbag? Perhaps the Garda didn't believe you...

That is sad. Do they really decide from the look? I look a bit young, but it shouldn't arm someone with such a word. I felt like a thief on the way home afoot even I have paid all the crap.

behan29

1. ring your insurance company, they will email you a letter stating that you had a valid insurance, ie you were fully insured whilst driving the car. Produce it to the guard in question, he will issue you with chareg approx 125 euro and give you your car back. The garda may or may not issue you with a summons, basically once the car was insured at the time the garda took it off of you then you have no problems. Remember you are not allowed to make a mistake in this country!!!

topper75

behan29 wrote: »

Remember you are not allowed to make a mistake in this country!!!

Easy now! It's not like French and German cops wave you on for this!!!

sunnyjim

topper75 wrote: »

Easy now! It's not like French and German cops wave you on for this!!!

Well, the problem here is that there is provision for a bloke like himself to get insurance and have 10 days to get his paperwork and discs etc.

Do insurance companies have numbers that the Gardai can ring to confirm if someone has insurance (a la Road Wars) ?

luger205

behan29 wrote: »

1. ring your insurance company, they will email you a letter stating that you had a valid insurance, ie you were fully insured whilst driving the car. Produce it to the guard in question, he will issue you with chareg approx 125 euro and give you your car back. The garda may or may not issue you with a summons, basically once the car was insured at the time the garda took it off of you then you have no problems. Remember you are not allowed to make a mistake in this country!!!

Can you tell me exactly what my mistake was?

hierro

sunnyjim wrote: »

Well, the problem here is that there is provision for a bloke like himself to get insurance and have 10 days to get his paperwork and discs etc.

Do insurance companies have numbers that the Gardai can ring to confirm if someone has insurance (a la Road Wars) ?

This my friend is the crux of the problem... as far as I can see, there is nothing for the Gardai to access a situation accurately.... BTW, the car can't be taken for not having a disc.... it's because there was reasonable belief that there was no insurance covering you or the car, for which no disc contributed to.....

appeal to the garda's better nature and he might not impose the fine once all is in order....

luger205

Just to make a picture of how it is made in my country, which is Czech:


You are obliged to insure your car 14 days after previous policy have expired. If you do not do so, you have to return reg plates.

After cops find that you have no insurance and did not return the plates:
1) You pay 10 euro for each uninsured day - that is called a contribution to guaranty fond. That goes to insurance union.
2) fine is 60 euro, issued by police

If you DRIVE the car with no insurance, the fine is up to 1600 euro, usually 200 though.

And nobody seizes you car - it is my own asset after all.

Please note, that average wage in CZE is 940 euro.

So now you understand why was I so surprised when somebody took my car telling me to pay 125 euro despite the fact, that I had newly paid TAX, Insurance & NCT and road act allowed me to drive.

luger205

hierro wrote: »

This my friend is the crux of the problem... as far as I can see, there is nothing for the Gardai to access a situation accurately.... BTW, the car can't be taken for not having a disc.... it's because there was reasonable belief that there was no insurance covering you or the car, for which no disc contributed to.....

appeal to the garda's better nature and he might not impose the fine once all is in order....

Yeap and the reasonable belief was caused by my haircut, unfortunately. That BTW covers the guy who decided to take my car. He did not do anything wrong, because he had a belief.

I would give less for changing my haircut and that is what I should have done to satisfy my favorite garda guy.

Reloc8

You may wish to contact a solicitor.

The belief has to be a reasonable one, capable of being objectively justified. It is not generally considered unduly onerous for the garda to check the information provided by yourself regarding your recently having taken out the required policy etc.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0523/1224247215254.html

maidhc

luger205 wrote: »

So now you understand why was I so surprised when somebody took my car telling me to pay 125 euro despite the fact, that I had newly paid TAX, Insurance & NCT and road act allowed me to drive.

With all due respect it really is irrelevant what happens in the Czech Republic. You had no proof you were insured, so the Garda impounded your vehicle. I'm not sure why you had no proof, as most insurers give you a certificate straight away. Even Quinn give you some sort of thing you print out there and then.

luger205

Reloc8 wrote: »

You may wish to contact a solicitor.

The belief has to be a reasonable one, capable of being objectively justified. It is not generally considered unduly onerous for the garda to check the information provided by yourself regarding your recently having taken out the required policy etc.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0523/1224247215254.html

I got my car back already and even if those 125 euro is not negligible sum for me, I decided not to sensualize lion's balls with my head in its mouth.

Reloc8

maidhc wrote: »

With all due respect it really is irrelevant what happens in the Czech Republic. You had no proof you were insured, so the Garda impounded your vehicle. I'm not sure why you had no proof, as most insurers give you a certificate straight away. Even Quinn give you some sort of thing you print out there and then.

On the presumption that you're condoning the seizure in this instance, I wouldn't agree with you for a moment. There was other options falling short of impounding this vehicle at the point at which it was impounded, going by what the OP has related. Again, a belief has to be formed reasonably, and not on a whim or instinct, and in circumstances where the Road Traffic Acts permit a recently purchased vehicle to be dealt with differently for insurance purposes pending the issue of a disc the mere absence of a disc, when the recent purchase is indicated as a reason for that, is not sufficient to form a reasonable opinion.

luger205 wrote: »

I got my car back already and even if those 125 euro is not negligible sum for me, I decided not to sensualize lion's balls with my head in its mouth.

Heheh.

Well put - and by no means a bad decision.

luger205

maidhc wrote: »

With all due respect it really is irrelevant what happens in the Czech Republic. You had no proof you were insured, so the Garda impounded your vehicle. I'm not sure why you had no proof, as most insurers give you a certificate straight away. Even Quinn give you some sort of thing you print out there and then.

Of course it is irrelevant. I just thought some of you may be interested in such information. I did not mean in any other way.

And how do you explain the fact, that road act gives me 10 days of driving without a disc and the garda guy does not? They should be synchronized somehow...

TheNog

luger205 wrote: »

My car have been seized today because of missing insurance disc. I have paid the insurance a week ago and I am waiting to finally get the certificate. I gave my policy ID to the gardai member and he told me that it is a nice story, but he does not believe me and he thinks that I simply did not pay for the insurance and took my car.

Now I have been left waiting for the certificate and the depository fee keeps growing each day. Obviously I am punished for something I did not commit (driving without insurance).

I am afraid of the situation when I am not going to be able to pay for it.

What would you guys do if you were me?

You are allowed the 10 days from when the insurance covers begins to having your disc on the window. The best course of action that should have been taken is the demand to produce your insurance cert or exemption within 10 days (from date to being stopped).

However none of us here were there so do not know your previous driving history which may have become a factor.

sunnyjim wrote: »

Do insurance companies have numbers that the Gardai can ring to confirm if someone has insurance (a la Road Wars) ?

At the moment the insurance companies are beginning to share that information with us but it just starting out and is no where near the level the UK Police have, In the past and actually to this day if I want to find out the latest on a driver's policy I must type out a report and fax it to the insurance company who then fax me back the info I need. Obviously this is impossible when I am standing at the roadside so can only be done when I get back to the station. Another thing to note is that insurance companies are only open business hours.

luger205 wrote: »

Of course it is irrelevant. I just thought some of you may be interested in such information. I did not mean in any other way.

And how do you explain the fact, that road act gives me 10 days of driving without a disc and the garda guy does not? They should be synchronized somehow...

If you were covered to drive the car then you do NOT have to pay the fees to retrieve your vehicle from the pound or Garda station.

luger205

TheNog wrote: »

If you were covered to drive the car then you do NOT have to pay the fees to retrieve your vehicle from the pound or Garda station.

Well, the garda fella sitting on the other side of the counter said that I have to.

TheNog

luger205 wrote: »

Well, the garda fella sitting on the other side of the counter said that I have to.

Thats not correct. Again if you had insurance for the time of driving and were within the 10 days from the start of your policy then you do not have to pay for the €125. I would telephone the Sergeant's office if I were you and get your money back.

triple-M

by the looks of it the garda had no right to take the car off you unless he had another reason to u were an unaccompanied L driver etc etc,just go to the station explain your situation get your car back and forget about it,garda was obviously just being a pr*ck or was on a total power buzz

NinjaTruncs

Had you previous insurance or was this your first policy?

If you had previous why didn't you leave your old disc in, this way the cop could tell when you're insuarance ran out and if you were within the ten days. With no old disc it is impossible for him to know if what you are saying was the truth (i'm not saying you were lieing).

TheNog

triple-M wrote: »

by the looks of it the garda had no right to take the car off you unless he had another reason to u were an unaccompanied L driver etc etc,just go to the station explain your situation get your car back and forget about it,garda was obviously just being a pr*ck or was on a total power buzz

Jeez you point out there may have been other circumstances we do not know about resulting in the OPs car being taken and then you say he was being prick and on a power trip.

Some people just do not think when they post.

luger205

triple-M wrote: »

by the looks of it the garda had no right to take the car off you unless he had another reason to u were an unaccompanied L driver etc etc,just go to the station explain your situation get your car back and forget about it,garda was obviously just being a pr*ck or was on a total power buzz

The problem was there was a gap between the end of previous policy and the new one. I did not use the car for a half a year or so, so maybe his belief was well-founded however false.

auerillo

luger205 wrote: »

The problem was there was a gap between the end of previous policy and the new one. I did not use the car for a half a year or so, so maybe his belief was well-founded however false.

So your car was siezed in a public place with no valid insurance disc on it, and not even a recently valid insurance disc?

My view is to congratulate the police man who was so vigilant, as uninsured drivers are a scourge, and you'll understand your car seemed, to anyone who might have looked, to be uninsured.

While I have sympathy for your predicament, if you had your car in a public place with either no insurance disc whatever or one which was over 6 months out of date, you really have only yourself to blame here.

TheNog

luger205 wrote: »

The problem was there was a gap between the end of previous policy and the new one. I did not use the car for a half a year or so, so maybe his belief was well-founded however false.

Ah now there is the reasonable belief. So the Garda was correct in taking your car because it was reasonable to believe there may not have been any insurance in place. Still however if you were covered to drive the car when you were stopped you still do not pay the €125 seizure fee.

TheNog

auerillo wrote: »

So your car was siezed in a public place with no valid insurance disc on it, and not even a recently valid insurance disc?

My view is to congratulate the police man who was so vigilant, as uninsured drivers are a scourge, and you'll understand your car seemed, to anyone who might have looked, to be uninsured.

While I have sympathy for your predicament, if you had your car in a public place with either no insurance disc whatever or one which was over 6 months out of date, you really have only yourself to blame here.

He is not really to blame here cos actually no is to blame. Yes the OP has 10 days from the beginning of the policy to have his/her disc on the windscreen and yes the Garda was right in taking the car cos he/she believed there may not have been insurance in place.

You are right in saying that drivers with no isurance are a scourge and unfortunately for the OP those with no insurance will claim they had just taken out a new policy and hadnt received the disc and cert.

auerillo

TheNog wrote: »

He is not really to blame here cos actually no is to blame. Yes the OP has 10 days from the beginning of the policy to have his/her disc on the windscreen and yes the Garda was right in taking the car cos he/she believed there may not have been insurance in place.

You are right in saying that drivers with no isurance are a scourge and unfortunately for the OP those with no insurance will claim they had just taken out a new policy and hadnt received the disc and cert.

My point was that, as we have gleaned from the OP, either (i) his car was in a public place with his last insurance disc which was 6 months+ out of date or (ii) there was no insurance disc on it at all.

Assuming he reinsured his car before it was impounded, why did the OP not ask his insurance company to email his cert and disc, then print it out and attach to his car? A mystery.

What was the policeman who impounded his car meant to glean from either (i) or (ii) above?

It is unfortunate, but the policeman is hardly to blame.

Our man in Havana

Insurance companies here do not email certs/discs to customers. There are security features in the certs/discs to prevent forgery.

maidhc

luger205 wrote: »

And how do you explain the fact, that road act gives me 10 days of driving without a disc and the garda guy does not? They should be synchronized somehow...

Because you did not even offer evidence you were insured. You may not have to display a disc, but you must be insured. The garda formed a reasonable opinion you were not insured, it may not have been a correct opinion, but it was reasonably held!

maidhc

Bond-007 wrote: »

Insurance companies here do not email certs/discs to customers. There are security features in the certs/discs to prevent forgery.

Quinn send on a temp cover note electronically. Everyone else does it over the counter in my experience.

TouchingVirus

I never got a temporary cover note by Quinn when I bought my insurance off them online. I never got one from Hibernian when I drove bikes either. I just had to wait and used my online receipt just in case.

Regardless of the decision to seize the car, the OP has paid a fine they shouldn't have because they were within the 10 day period of a new policy and hadn't received their details yet.

When your insurance cert arrives and covers you for that day of driving and proves you were within the 10 day period call in to the Garda station and explain and go about getting your money back.

ha-ya-said-what

Unless proven to the Garda on the spot you have insurance via print off receipt or some form of confirmation form the insurance company they have an automatic right to seize the car.

Even if you arrive into the station an hour later proving you are insured you STILL have to pay them a fee to cover the cost of them transporting your car to the station and your release fee.

No ifs or buts about it, or fighting the case it still has to be paid.

Our man in Havana

auerillo

Bond-007 wrote: »

Insurance companies here do not email certs/discs to customers. There are security features in the certs/discs to prevent forgery.

Mine did. So apparntly, did

maidhc wrote: »

Quinn send on a temp cover note electronically. Everyone else does it over the counter in my experience.

On what basis do you claim that Insurance companies do not mail certs/discs?

Jip

I don't understand why the gardai can't ring the insurance company (if it's within office hours obviously) to immediately clarify such issues, saving the garda alot of needless paper work and time spent elsewhere. If it can be done in the UK I can't see what the issue is doing it here.

auerillo

Jip wrote: »

I don't understand why the gardai can't ring the insurance company (if it's within office hours obviously) to immediately clarify such issues, saving the garda alot of needless paper work and time spent elsewhere. If it can be done in the UK I can't see what the issue is doing it here.

I don't see why we can't all have discs in our windscreen, as the law demands. or if we haven't got a disc, how about pasting a copy of the insurance cert explaining we are awaiting for the disc?

I wonder which insurance company you suggest the individual policeman should ring, in the event and as appears to be the case here, that there was no information on the screen?

norrie rugger

auerillo wrote: »

So your car was siezed in a public place with no valid insurance disc on it, and not even a recently valid insurance disc?

My view is to congratulate the police man who was so vigilant, as uninsured drivers are a scourge, and you'll understand your car seemed, to anyone who might have looked, to be uninsured.

While I have sympathy for your predicament, if you had your car in a public place with either no insurance disc whatever or one which was over 6 months out of date, you really have only yourself to blame here.

Can you explain this?
He did nothing wrong, in the eyes of the law

norrie rugger

auerillo wrote: »

I don't see why we can't all have discs in our windscreen, as the law demands. or if we haven't got a disc, how about pasting a copy of the insurance cert explaining we are awaiting for the disc?

I wonder which insurance company you suggest the individual policeman should ring, in the event and as appears to be the case here, that there was no information on the screen?

Again it will be said, you do NOT have to display a disk, for up to 10 days from the start of cover!

I do not have a printer at home, how would I print this off? Also when a Garda did question me once just ook my details, from my licence, and ordered me to present to the station when the cert arrived

spongeman

auerillo wrote: »

My point was that, as we have gleaned from the OP, either (i) his car was in a public place with his last insurance disc which was 6 months+ out of date or (ii) there was no insurance disc on it at all.

Assuming he reinsured his car before it was impounded, why did the OP not ask his insurance company to email his cert and disc, then print it out and attach to his car? A mystery.

What was the policeman who impounded his car meant to glean from either (i) or (ii) above?

It is unfortunate, but the policeman is hardly to blame.

I had a car seized once because the number on the insurance disc was one digit out from the cert. Insurance fault. Said I would produce the new cert within ten days but to no avail. When I mentioned a possible complaint the keys came out like a shot.

That policeman who impounded the car above should have waited the ten days. I would suggest the OP makes a complaint to the Ombudsman and screws up that policeman's career.

CamperMan

Car seized for nothing????? you didn't have an insurance disc displayed in your windscreen, so your car was seized for something.

Our man in Havana

We are going around in circles now.

Reloc8

CamperMan wrote: »

Car seized for nothing????? you didn't have an insurance disc displayed in your windscreen, so your car was seized for something.

Perhaps read thread...and law...and then thread again...NB law is in thread for maximum efficiency minimum effort

pieface_ie

Why couldn't the cop do a reg check over the radio? Instead of putting the OP through all that?

Our man in Havana

pieface_ie wrote: »

Why couldn't the cop do a reg check over the radio? Instead of putting the OP through all that?

The problem is there is not the same level of information sharing between Gardaí and insurance companies that there is in the UK. It was explained here by a Garda that they cannot get this information over the phone and they must submit a written request via fax. Also this can only be done during office hours.