Question about choice of optics?

Flecktarn

I'm looking to get a new optic for my AEG's. I've been looking at getting a ACOG or Eotech.

TBH honest I can't see why the Eotech is so expensive
is it not just a glorified red dot,
so I'd be kinda inclined to go for the ACOG although the Eotech is fairly Gucci.

Anyone care to elaborate?

Cheers!

hightower1

TBH I always thought the same? I mean I am sure the quality is better with no ghosting and build quality but quality has to be at the right price ya know? Especially considering my life aint going to be depending on the sight why would you pay x3 times the amount for an eotech. Same with the magpul stuff sure, its shocking prices for what is cheaper to manufacture than metal parts but they charge people more for the name than what your actually getting.

Quality is top of the list but price should be in line with that. I wouldnt mind paying 30% / 40% more for better quality on ANYTHING but when their talking 300% more then it gets to be a joke. Its why magpul are so vicious about getting knock off stuff off the market, they know all thats in the diff is marginal quality improvement and more so their name. Ask any of the guys who got the china made UBR stock.

Flecktarn

Amen to that Hightower, from my understanding Magpul stuff is so dear because of the the Magpul logo on their goods. Think of it as designer clothes you can pay up to 4 times the amount and sometimes only to have it with the designer logo!

tonyj_mc

Flecktarn wrote: »

I'm looking to get a new optic for my AEG's. I've been looking at getting a ACOG or Eotech.

TBH honest I can't see why the Eotech is so expensive
is it not just a glorified red dot,
so I'd be kinda inclined to go for the ACOG although the Eotech is fairly Gucci.

Anyone care to elaborate?

Cheers!

I use both depending on the aeg, although I mainly use the acog on my sr16 as it looks more issue than an eotech that being said the eotech is a cracking piece if kit if you can down to a site or shop and try both out

Flecktarn

tonyj_mc wrote: »

I use both depending on the aeg, although I mainly use the acog on my sr16 as it looks more issue than an eotech that being said the eotech is a cracking piece if kit if you can down to a site or shop and try both out

Yeah I was thinking I might need to try them both out. Just wondering what size roughly would the recticle be in a Eotech?

Phractal

My memory is a bit fuzzy but the EoTech I used had a funny reticle. It did not appear to be a dot, more like something from a FPS. It was extremely crisp and clear, a beauty to use.

tonyj_mc

I think maybe 6 mm or so on my one its a dot with a circle around it its been a while since used it, one thing to think about is batterys a lot of red dots use the small watch batterys like lr44s which can be annoying to get and expensive in ireland, I went through all my sights and ordered like 10 sets of batts from ebay for them. Some of the eo techs uses aa or aaa so you could always use recghargable ones

Witcher

Eotechs are a much clearer sight that an Aimpoint for example, much better field of view through it, I'll never buy another type of sight again if I can help it, they aren't that pricey, I've 2 of the EBB €30 ish ones and they're great. I've only had a look through a "red dot" ACOG so I can't really say much about it as a better quality one would be nicer than the one I seen, but I'd go with the Eotech personally.

Firekitten

Flecktarn wrote: »

I'm looking to get a new optic for my AEG's. I've been looking at getting a ACOG or Eotech.

TBH honest I can't see why the Eotech is so expensive
is it not just a glorified red dot,
so I'd be kinda inclined to go for the ACOG although the Eotech is fairly Gucci.

Anyone care to elaborate?

Cheers!

first off... *slap* stop with the gucci... :P

The big difference is that in the real sight, the eotech is a holosight, it has features that make it really sucessful... hence its favour. It's main advantage is its a reflex sight by any other name... One can snap shoot through it, and when looking through with both eyes open (harder with a tube sight) there is less loss in the field of vision, thus you're more effective.

Acog is good for a marksman type role, as its a 4x zoom, red dots are generally good for mid distance, but eotechs, reflexes and other holosights are PERFECT for cqb.

DICEMAN7

tonyj_mc wrote: »

I think maybe 6 mm or so on my one its a dot with a circle around it its been a while since used it, one thing to think about is batterys a lot of red dots use the small watch batterys like lr44s which can be annoying to get and expensive in ireland, I went through all my sights and ordered like 10 sets of batts from ebay for them. Some of the eo techs uses aa or aaa so you could always use recghargable ones

you can get 10 lr44 batteries for 2euro in the euro shops,

Phractal

Actually on the question of optics. I am planning on getting a 3x magnification tube thingy with a scope mount that allows it to flip to the side, out of the way, and then plonk a clone EoTech in front of it. I have been told Its kinda a 'best of both' solution, allowing the change from mid range/spotter to CQB in half a second or so. Is there any bad side to this setup? Is it destined to fail miserably? I hope not... It looks and seems perfect for the Spotter/ occasional DMR type playing while allowing CQB

Firekitten

I've seen those on clone eotechs before... they tend to zoom the reticle a little due to not being a true holosight. Frankly though, 4x zoom is really only helpful if you're taking on a marksman/ DM role, for about 1j, its next to useless beside spotting. Indoors? its a downright hinderance imo.

Phractal

Well... I will try it to see if it works out. If not, I will get a 4x ACOG for DMR type stuff. Planning to visit the UK this summer, going to look into a visit to Sennybridge, heard it is SERIOUS. Off topic, but is it possible for me to take my gear across to the UK on a Ferry in my rucksack?

Dread-Lock

I have an Aimpoint and an Aimpoint magnifier on a flip to side mount and I love it. Used it for the first time yesterday (as I only got it on Friday) and I'm extremely happy with it.

And yeah you'll be able to bring your gear across on the ferry. But your guns will have to be in a locked case and you will have to check them in with the harbour police before you get on the ferry.

Firekitten

Phractal wrote: »

Well... I will try it to see if it works out. If not, I will get a 4x ACOG for DMR type stuff. Planning to visit the UK this summer, going to look into a visit to Sennybridge, heard it is SERIOUS. Off topic, but is it possible for me to take my gear across to the UK on a Ferry in my rucksack?

Sennybridge is my local cqb site


Gunswise and ferries... Irish Ferries and Stenafail both take them... I had a minor issue at Holyhead port with a bulldog of a security woman who decided her rules flew... and i wasnt allowed them. The ferry rules are so...

1: Always ring and check before hand, and get rules confirmation, and someones name. (You may want this later)
2: Always declare them on arrival.
3: Car... no problem, port police will probably want to check, but do so, be helpful, and its over fast...
4: Foot passengers? same check... I had great fun being whisked past the long check in cue, signed in ahead of 50 people, walked past the metal detectors with a police escort... makes a girl feel special They check it the same... simples... Now heres where it goes hinky... Depending on order of the day, it HAS to be checked in. Generally the first mate will come down, pick it up, and take the gunbag to storage on the bridge. you get this back at docking on the other side.
5: always be honest.
6: Try not to drink around them... even though you can.
7:If in doubt, know the rules, and use them... remember that name I told you to remember? When some muppet decides that its thier day to be king, slap them round the face with the name, and the rules, and the permission till they either get sick of being slapped with the facts, or die of rage: Either way, you win.

MindPhuck

ive got an eotech. its a very nice bit of kit.

- its essentially a circle with an cross through it.
- two choices of colour, red and green.
- one can decide on the brightness of it too by using up and down arrows.
- the crosshair can be adjusted up and down, left and right by some screws on the side of it.
- uses normal aa batteries.
- its sexy as bits of kits go.

i still havnt fully got used to it to be perfectly honest. however, its great for cqb stuff letting you get the crosshair on the target quickly.

i also use my original iron sights with mine - unsure if one is meant to use them with the eotech - but feels better, looks good, and i love the line of sight one gets. using both kinda gives me the best of both worlds for close combat and long range.

the main reason i like it is because it reminds me of online gaming - its the same crosshair type i like

heres a few pics taken from my phone. it will give you an idea i hope

Phractal

Thanks for the advice as to how to get my gear across. I love the way you put in all the ways around the annoying people. Now to get a proper rifle case... I had hoped I could just stuff it in the gearbag :P. And :O metal detectors on a ferry? With Britanny Ferries we had no such thing- just roll on, roll off. Nobody cared what was in your car/bag. Guns, bombs, drugs... Nobody bothered searching. I found that rather amusing. So, rifle case, phone ahead, kill them with names...

Flecktarn

MindPhuck wrote: »

ive got an eotech. its a very nice bit of kit.

- its essentially a circle with an cross through it.
- two choices of colour, red and green.
- one can decide on the brightness of it too by using up and down arrows.
- the crosshair can be adjusted up and down, left and right by some screws on the side of it.
- uses normal aa batteries.
- its sexy as bits of kits go.

i still havnt fully got used to it to be perfectly honest. however, its great for cqb stuff letting you get the crosshair on the target quickly.

i also use my original iron sights with mine - unsure if one is meant to use them with the eotech - but feels better, looks good, and i love the line of sight one gets. using both kinda gives me the best of both worlds for close combat and long range.

the main reason i like it is because it reminds me of online gaming - its the same crosshair type i like

heres a few pics taken from my phone. it will give you an idea i hope

Cheers MindPhuck, can I ask where you got your Eotech?

Phractal

Well, Eirsoft, MIA (I think) and probably many others have them. Ehobby have many types. I have asked Tony to get me a quote on some Ehobby kit, I am buying the extra accessory parts for my G36c in increments- hopefully it wont work out too expensive. I wonder is it worth my while going for the cheaper clone EoTechs or should I shell out the 95 euro on one- I had hoped to save enough to buy a KWA Glock 17 before my 18th. Oh and how clear do you all find your EoTechs? The last closed tube dot I had was AWFUL

Firekitten

Phractal wrote: »

Thanks for the advice as to how to get my gear across. I love the way you put in all the ways around the annoying people. Now to get a proper rifle case... I had hoped I could just stuff it in the gearbag :P. And :O metal detectors on a ferry? With Britanny Ferries we had no such thing- just roll on, roll off. Nobody cared what was in your car/bag. Guns, bombs, drugs... Nobody bothered searching. I found that rather amusing. So, rifle case, phone ahead, kill them with names...

Well the detectors are in the terminal for foot passengers...

MindPhuck wrote: »

i also use my original iron sights with mine - unsure if one is meant to use them with the eotech - but feels better, looks good, and i love the line of sight one gets. using both kinda gives me the best of both worlds for close combat and long range.

Yes you are... it's called 'cowitnessing' basically means your irons and 1x zoom optic are viewable through the tube. Good tactic tbh, i use it a lot in bright sunlight.

Phractal

Seems that they consider foot passengers a threat then. And co-witnessing means if the dot fails you Still have sights

Firekitten

Phractal wrote: »

Seems that they consider foot passengers a threat then. And co-witnessing means if the dot fails you Still have sights

No, Co witnessing means your irons and dot are aligned, what you use it for is entirely your call. In bright sunny conditions, especially the middle east, its used to be able to sight under conditions that wash out the dot.

MindPhuck

Flecktarn wrote: »

Cheers MindPhuck, can I ask where you got your Eotech?

course. got it from mr. T in eirsoft. 90-95 bucks. also there is a slightly different shorter version to the one im using, think it comes in at about 60-65 bills.

Firekitten wrote: »

Yes you are... it's called 'cowitnessing' basically means your irons and 1x zoom optic are viewable through the tube. Good tactic tbh, i use it a lot in bright sunlight.

thanks!
yeah i noticed that alright, in the sunlight, with the eotech, you dont get washed out and can still see your target with the crosshair.

Flecktarn

Does anyone know where to get an Eotech 552 not 551? MIA and Eirsoft only stock the smaller 551.

Phractal

Firekitten: I know that... Just I was pointing out a secondary advantage of co-witnessing

Its a bit like the EBS on an ACOG, an insurance policy in case of optics failure. Its also good for if dot is washed out, etc.

Witcher

Flecktarn wrote: »

Does anyone know where to get an Eotech 552 not 551? MIA and Eirsoft only stock the smaller 551.

Ebaybanned have them, I bought a 552 from them and I love it, I also bought a 551 which is in the Phoenix Park at the moment.:rolleyes:

Flecktarn

Blay wrote: »

Ebaybanned have them, I bought a 552 from them and I love it, I also bought a 551 which is in the Phoenix Park at the moment.:rolleyes:

Thing is though I don't trust them chancers at all and I need it for christmas.

Firekitten

Phractal wrote: »

Firekitten: I know that... Just I was pointing out a secondary advantage of co-witnessing

Its a bit like the EBS on an ACOG, an insurance policy in case of optics failure. Its also good for if dot is washed out, etc.

Uh.... Dot.... acog? pft, fakes suck.... Acogs are 4x telescopic scopes.... the electronic backup is pretty pointless if its too bright, hence why i stick to the TA01NSN models... irons arent effected by brightness.


Flecktarn: Fat chance hon, Ordering from ANYWHERE In HK to get before christmas wont happen. HK post also stops international post soon... Also, Ebb are ok i find, not 'chancers' by any stretch.

Phractal

Well I guess the proper ACOG is the correct way to go, however the fake electronic dot one is often more affordable to the person on a real tight budget (Its really a dot sight that looks like an ACOG I suppose). The proper 4x one looks decent, I like it! I may end up putting one on the G36c

Stonewolf

Here's a stupid question, on a flip to the side setup, why put the red dot/holo/reflex/whatever after the magnification, wouldn't it be better to put it before the magnification so that the reticule isn't magnified?

evilrobotshane

There'd be no seeing down those scopes if your eye was a full sight's distance from them. The magnification isn't really a problem, anyway.

Firekitten

Stonewolf wrote: »

Here's a stupid question, on a flip to the side setup, why put the red dot/holo/reflex/whatever after the magnification, wouldn't it be better to put it before the magnification so that the reticule isn't magnified?

Because the magnifiers do not have the eye relief to allow you to be about 6 inches away from the lens.

Phractal wrote: »

Well I guess the proper ACOG is the correct way to go, however the fake electronic dot one is often more affordable to the person on a real tight budget (Its really a dot sight that looks like an ACOG I suppose). The proper 4x one looks decent, I like it! I may end up putting one on the G36c

Actually the zoom ones cost about 10-20 more than the red dot ones... if you look.

Phractal

Firekitten- I think you misread my post :P. You said the exact same thing as I did- that zoom ones cost more. But the zoom one costs a hundred euro on MIA. Nathan paid... Forty euro for what is, in fact, a rubbish red dot in a fake ACOG casing. The fake Aimpoint is even worse! Think fake as in, sickening joke fake.

Leftyflip

Phractal wrote: »

that zoom ones cost more. But the zoom one costs a hundred euro on MIA. Nathan paid... Forty euro for what is, in fact, a rubbish red dot in a fake ACOG casing.

That's why they cost more.

Phractal

Lefty- I was unaware MIA had bad pricing. I use Eirsoft anyway for gear simply cos I like em more. Anyway... I am working on a fun little thing- you know those rangefinders golf players use? I wonder how good they are for getting distance to target

Leftyflip

Phractal wrote: »

Lefty- I was unaware MIA had bad pricing. I use Eirsoft anyway for gear simply cos I like em more. Anyway... I am working on a fun little thing- you know those rangefinders golf players use? I wonder how good they are for getting distance to target

To be honest I just hate MIA, never got a good service from them and got met with abuse when I pointed something out to them, beside the point I know.

Tip from the USMC for finding the distance, use what you know and multiply.

Dread-Lock

Phractal wrote: »

Anyway... I am working on a fun little thing- you know those rangefinders golf players use? I wonder how good they are for getting distance to target

Not very good, as the golf rangefinders need those flag poles that mark where the hole is to get the distance.

Phractal

Ah bugger, I was getting hopeful and all. I suppose I can just do it the normal way... Actually a scaled down MilDot reticle would be awesome. You know the one where a meter is equal to one millimetre at 1k or such? And I often hear people complain about MIA and dodge gear- especially bad downgrades.

Firekitten

Dread-Lock wrote: »

Not very good, as the golf rangefinders need those flag poles that mark where the hole is to get the distance.

actually they generally have a golf mode and normal mode...

In normal mode, you enter the general hight of target, aim bottom line at the base, and bring the top down to the top, and it calculates range.... set to something like... 6ft, average human hightish, it can do it rather fast.]

Just dont use it on hivemind will you?

*sneaks off*

Phractal

Hmmm they are not too expensive, perhaps I can test one out over the christmas. If it works it will help with calculating projectile drop and means I can get more precision rather than merely 'aiming up a bit'

Firekitten

Again with the mad scientist routine... Hon, Drop it... Pick up your rifle, and shoot it.... again.... again... again... and when you think you've shot enough, shoot a bit more.

The ONLY reliable way to learn trajectory and bullet drop in airsoft, is to do it. Practice till you know the gun inside out. Science really... can't cope with this one, not without extensive studies that will never live up to field conditions.

Weather, temperature, humidity all effect airsoft guns, so just work out what happens by using it. I can pretty much place a bb on someones forehead at 90m with my l96 because I know exactly where to aim, and when... Experience will trump theory any day. The sooner you start picking up guns and doing stuff, and less working out kooky ways to work things out, the better off you'll be.

Dread-Lock

Firekitten wrote: »

actually they generally have a golf mode and normal mode...

In normal mode, you enter the general hight of target, aim bottom line at the base, and bring the top down to the top, and it calculates range.... set to something like... 6ft, average human hightish, it can do it rather fast.]

Just dont use it on hivemind will you?

*sneaks off*

I thought that was only with the more expensive ones.
Can you do that with the €10 ones you can find on eBay? If so, I stand corrected, if not...I was referring to the cheap ones .

Phractal

Firekitten... I see your point. A friend of mine who is even more scientific minded suggested a temperature adjustable scope for GBBr devices. I had to laugh at the sheer idea of dialling in the temperature... But you are correct. Simply shooting and shooting more, i.e. Practice, is the best way. The idea of calculating it just 'feels' more precise to my mind. But I can appreciate the fact that Its impractical to start doing equations in the field prior to taking the shot- by then the target is gone!

Leftyflip

Set your hop, know your maximum range and shoot, shoot some more then reload, then shoot some more, balls to all the calculations. Especially if sniping, its airsoft in a skirmish, you don't have 3 day's to get in position and set up, you've 3 minutes.

Firekitten

Leftyflip wrote: »

Especially if sniping, its airsoft, you don't have 3 day's to get in position and set up, you've 3 minutes.

Depends really...

I've waited about an hour once for a target. I took up position in a hide i'd scoped out at Sennybridge, and waited for the battle to progress through the town
when it reached me, my room and floor was unsearched dispite the enemy occupying the building... Killed 22 before discovery as the battle passed (Tip for snipers: Engage enemy that are under fire already.... they assume its the aeg that hit them and dont look for you)... Nah, its very much 3 hours getting into position, 3 minutes getting out :P

Phractal wrote: »

Firekitten... I see your point. A friend of mine who is even more scientific minded suggested a temperature adjustable scope for GBBr devices. I had to laugh at the sheer idea of dialling in the temperature... But you are correct. Simply shooting and shooting more, i.e. Practice, is the best way. The idea of calculating it just 'feels' more precise to my mind. But I can appreciate the fact that Its impractical to start doing equations in the field prior to taking the shot- by then the target is gone!

Honestly, I wasnt having a go... Just trying to impart some wisdom earned the very hard way... I was like you at first, all about theory... it took my teacher to direct me to the experience route... glad he did tbh.

Dread-Lock wrote: »

I thought that was only with the more expensive ones.
Can you do that with the €10 ones you can find on eBay? If so, I stand corrected, if not...I was referring to the cheap ones .

The one i got from Aldi recently did yeah... 10€ jobbie.

Leftyflip

Firekitten wrote: »

Depends really...

I've waited about an hour once for a target. I took up position in a hide i'd scoped out at Sennybridge, and waited for the battle to progress through the town
when it reached me, my room and floor was unsearched dispite the enemy occupying the building... Killed 22 before discovery as the battle passed (Tip for snipers: Engage enemy that are under fire already.... they assume its the aeg that hit them and dont look for you)... Nah, its very much 3 hours getting into position, 3 minutes getting out :P

I meant in a normal skirmish game, it's different in milsim I suppose.
Post edited to clear confusion.

.22 Lover

Ill need to get a downgrade soon enouf.who should i go to?

Phractal

Well SEAirsoft or Eirsoft. Apparently MIA use a gammy method. I know a lad who does it practically for free, only charges for the new spring. He will chrono it, get the new spring, install new spring and chrono again. No actual service charge or anything, just parts. Galway based, he is going to his first 'proper' skirmish in GTAC 2 on Sunday. He is a bloody genius, should see his MP5SD - started off with a TM MP5 SD and went mad doing it up. PM for details- but he aint doing anything til after christmas.

Firekitten

Leftyflip wrote: »

I meant in a normal skirmish game, it's different in milsim I suppose.
Post edited to clear confusion.

Done similar in normal skirmishes... play style varies :P

gungun

on the sportlines anyway, all mia do/did was drill a hole in the cylinder:mad:
i doubt its good for the piston o-ring to be running over a rough hole a lot

Leftyflip

Firekitten wrote: »

Done similar in normal skirmishes... play style varies :P

Must just be the games we run then :P