Should they have scrapped the dole altogether?

bobbiw

For people who have been on it for more than say, 3-4 years.

Tell them that they have 6 months left and then thats it.

Jarren

and what next?

The biggest crime rate in Europe perhaps! One of many,many ideas

If you don't like the fact that people still receive a DOLE after 5/10/15 years then move
to Afganistan,China,Iraq and etc

starbelgrade

Tell them all to go & get jobs.. oh, no, wait - there aren't any.

RealityCheck

bobbiw wrote: »

For people who have been on it for more than say, 3-4 years.

Tell them that they have 6 months left and then thats it.

Maybe if we had full unemployment.

But we dont. There are no jobs and no prospect of jobs.

ntlbell

bobbiw wrote: »

For people who have been on it for more than say, 3-4 years.

Tell them that they have 6 months left and then thats it.

I think a gradual removal is fare.

But you'll just see disability soaring.

the aul bad back.

Arnold Layne

It should have been policy six years ago, too late now IMO.

stepbar

Removal of dole is not going to happen. I honestly think that after a number of years the rate should be reduced and food / other vouchers given as part exchange for reducing the amount. Mind you if the Government is going to make a concerted effort to do this, education and retraining must be provided (And not by those loons in FAS). You can't just turn around to someone and cut their dole unless you offer sustainable options. If the person in question refuses help then it's time to give them the bare minimum to exist. I wouldn't want to see someone go hungry / homeless.

Seth Brundle

Make people do community service for it!

stepbar

kbannon wrote: »

Make people do community service for it!

Absoluitely! There are plenty of charitable organisations out there who are crying out for volunteers and sporting organisations etc looking for volunteers to do maintence work and the like.

marbar

kbannon wrote: »

Make people do community service for it!

^^^^this^^^^^^
it's the only solution. everyone who can work, should

BMurr

If people can afford to smoke, run cars, have SKY Tv, etc while on the dole then that says a lot about what a dyfunctional system we have.Welfare should be about preventing a crisis, not about maintaining a certain lifestyle.

seithon

Anyone unemployed for that long should be forced to become a public worker of some kind, but still being paid at slightly more then the dole rate... but then I doubt they'd bother to show up for it.

trench foot

no they shouldnt. but they should of scaled it back big time about 5 years ago when jobs were plentyful instead of opening the gates to eastern europe .

stepbar

BMurr wrote: »

If people can afford to smoke, run cars, have SKY Tv, etc while on the dole then that says a lot about what a dyfunctional system we have.Welfare should be about preventing a crisis, not about maintaining a certain lifestyle.

I'd agree with all that bar the comment on running a car, which in some parts of the country is VERY necessary.

BMurr

stepbar wrote: »

I'd agree with all that bar the comment on running a car, which in some parts of the country is VERY necessary.

He did say that he drove 12 miles to the welfare office, a nice mornings cycling or a short hop on a bus.

darrenon

+1 on community service. there is no reason for anyone not to be doing some thing to help the community that they are getting money from.

stepbar

BMurr wrote: »

He did say that he drove 12 miles to the welfare office, a nice mornings cycling or a short hop on a bus.

You've quite conveniently sidestepped the point of your argument and stereotyped a nation of people who are on the dole and have transport..... Well done.

BMurr

stepbar wrote: »

You've quite conveniently sidestepped the point of your argument and stereotyped a nation of people who are on the dole and have transport..... Well done.

From about 1800's to late 1960's the professional wisdom said that people with mental health problems or disabilities were better off being cared for in large institutioins. We ( society) damaged the lives of many through the process of institutionalisation. We have eventually come to realise that helping people to try and find their own inner resources is the way forward. Our welfare system has become the modern institution, taking in millions of people and catering for every need-decreasing their likelyhood of ever again becoming independent. Reduce welfare to such a level that car ownership is not an option and people with a bit of help ( in form of knowledge and not just cash handout) will find alternative ways of dealing with transport including such ideas as using the weekly bus if you are veryt rural and using locally produced produce.

argosy2006

why cant they just print the few billion euro they need>?
yea explain that to me,

waitingforBB

as part of the EU we cant perform quantitive easing.
wouldnt help anyway

waitingforBB

darrenon wrote: »

+1 on community service. there is no reason for anyone not to be doing some thing to help the community that they are getting money from.

Agree fully.

Everyone able to work should be engaged in some form of public service. 25 year old sitting on his backside getting dole should be made work cleaning parks, working in community centers etc.
Why get money for nothing?

ei.sdraob

jarecki1976 wrote: »

and what next?

The biggest crime rate in Europe perhaps! One of many,many ideas

If you don't like the fact that people still receive a DOLE after 5/10/15 years then move
to Afganistan,China,Iraq and etc

Ironically both Afghanistan an China are in a middle of a boom now, China is soon about to overtake the US as a leader

but yes cutting altogether would be cruel

tho instead halving the payment every 6-9 mths would be better idea, as is done in many other countries

waitingforBB wrote: »

as part of the EU we cant perform quantitive easing.
wouldnt help anyway

ECB is performing QE, its not large like UK but its there at about 50billion, they are being crazy buying irish banking crap, also NAMA is being paid by money conjured out of thin air

not that money printing ever helps

Ms Innocent

All of you Morons who have posted to this thread obviously have jobs at the moment. I would like to point out that myself and Hubby have been out of a job for over a year. Never in a million years did we think it would take us this long to acquire new jobs never mind not acquire new jobs and therein lies the problem, if you like you could give me all your addresses and I could maybe mail you the replies I've had for job applications or yet again maybe I couldn't because most of them don't even reply. I have been working for the last 25 years with the exception of a year maybe and I was sure I would even manage to get some temp work but that hasn't even happened. So please do not sit on your high horses and pass judgement because you never know when you may be in my situation or worse!!!

browner85

i think every one should be means tested no matter what!!! it annoys me the amount of single mothers that dont need to move from home but do because its so easy to get rent alowance i know there are certain circumstances where its not possible to stay at home but some ppl see it as a free house!!!!

stepbar

BMurr wrote: »

From about 1800's to late 1960's the professional wisdom said that people with mental health problems or disabilities were better off being cared for in large institutioins. We ( society) damaged the lives of many through the process of institutionalisation. We have eventually come to realise that helping people to try and find their own inner resources is the way forward. Our welfare system has become the modern institution, taking in millions of people and catering for every need-decreasing their likelyhood of ever again becoming independent. Reduce welfare to such a level that car ownership is not an option and people with a bit of help ( in form of knowledge and not just cash handout) will find alternative ways of dealing with transport including such ideas as using the weekly bus if you are veryt rural and using locally produced produce.

Wow, brilliant thinking there :rolleyes: Words fail me.....

Does the "weekly bus" run on fresh air? If you're referring to the Rural Transport Programme system that exists in many parts of the country there's a cost to the user. What if you are actually out looking for work, attending interviews etc, will the "weekly bus" cover that too? "Eh, sorry Mr. Employer, I can't do Wednesday, the bus only runs on a Friday and eh well ya know I've no other transport. Sorry can't do the interview, O well". Do you know how much a train / bus ticket is these days?

I've come to the conclusion that you haven't a clue about what living in the countryside entails. Whatever about reducing the dole, but reducing people's right to a bit of dignity and independence is downright sick.

nesf

Cutting the dole altogether would be a fantastic idea! The resulting crimewave would create billions of euro of work for repair people to clean up after the rioting!

kumate_champ07

kbannon wrote: »

Make people do community service for it!

maybe they could work out a system, find all the organisations that need volunteers, make a database and each person on the dole must give 10-20hrs a week of their time helping out, you can choose where u want to go but you must fill up the hours each week or else you dont get full payment.

any more than 20hrs a week and how are you supposed to be out looking for a real job

At the end of the day money for nothing isnt right, you gotta give back


edit*

there is also the possibility that instead of hiring people to work they might just hire free work from the government, so there would have to be specific jobs. Im sure its very complicated tho

waitingforBB

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

maybe they could work out a system, find all the organisations that need volunteers, make a database and each person on the dole must give 10-20hrs a week of their time helping out, you can choose where u want to go but you must fill up the hours each week or else you dont get full payment.

any more than 20hrs a week and how are you supposed to be out looking for a real job

At the end of the day money for nothing isnt right, you gotta give back


edit*

there is also the possibility that instead of hiring people to work they might just hire free work from the government, so there would have to be specific jobs. Im sure its very complicated tho

And God forbid that we as a society attempt anything complicated.

Any company hiring the 'community service' people would have to pay for the services.
Hence money back into the pot that pays them at the moment for sitting on their bum

mikemac

BMurr wrote: »

He did say that he drove 12 miles to the welfare office, a nice mornings cycling or a short hop on a bus.

Cycling maybe.
In rural areas, some places have the Rural Transport Initiative and that's because the local post office closed so the pensioners need to go to the nearest town to collect their pension.

That's one bus a week, maybe leaving the village at 10am on a Tuesday and returning at 4pm.
And your interview is on a Thursday, are you going to cycle 12 miles on rural roads to get there?

It's easy to say a car is a luxury when you live in a city and you even complain because you don't have a bus every 20 minutes.
What about one bus a week, could you manage? Tell us, do you live in a city and never dealt with this?

nesf

mikemac wrote: »

Cycling maybe.
In rural areas, some places have the Rural Transport Initiative and that's because the local post office closed so the pensioners need to go to the nearest town to collect their pension.

That's one bus a week, maybe leaving the village at 10am on a Tuesday and returning at 4pm.
And your interview is on a Thursday, are you going to cycle 12 miles on rural roads to get there?

It's easy to say a car is a luxury when you live in a city and you even complain because you don't have a bus every 20 minutes.
What about one bus a week, could you manage? Tell us, do you live in a city and never dealt with this?

Exactly! Where I grew up there's not even a Rural Transport Initiative. You're 6 miles from the closest town, 15 from the where you need to sign on, with no bus route between them. I know because my mother used to have to give one of my uncles a lift to the dole office to sign on back when he was a long-term unemployed alcoholic.

I live in Cork city now without a car and me and the wife and kids manage fine, but if I was raising my family in my parent's home I'd have no choice but to get a car.

starbelgrade

nesf wrote: »

Exactly! Where I grew up there's not even a Rural Transport Initiative. You're 6 miles from the closest town, 15 from the where you need to sign on, with no bus route between them. I know because my mother used to have to give one of my uncles a lift to the dole office to sign on back when he was a long-term unemployed alcoholic.

I live in Cork city now without a car and me and the wife and kids manage fine, but if I was raising my family in my parent's home I'd have no choice but to get a car.

Public transport in rural Ireland does not exist. If I had to sign on, which thankfully I don't, the nearest train station is a good half hour cycle from my house. I'm young enough & fit enough to do it, but I'll be f*cked if I wanted to... it's a seriously dangerous road. I cycled in Dublin for years & that was a piece of p*ss compared to cycling a "bog" road.

BMurr

stepbar wrote: »

Wow, brilliant thinking there :rolleyes: Words fail me.....

Does the "weekly bus" run on fresh air? If you're referring to the Rural Transport Programme system that exists in many parts of the country there's a cost to the user. What if you are actually out looking for work, attending interviews etc, will the "weekly bus" cover that too? "Eh, sorry Mr. Employer, I can't do Wednesday, the bus only runs on a Friday and eh well ya know I've no other transport. Sorry can't do the interview, O well". Do you know how much a train / bus ticket is these days?

I've come to the conclusion that you haven't a clue about what living in the countryside entails. Whatever about reducing the dole, but reducing people's right to a bit of dignity and independence is downright sick.

Well I do actually have a fair bit of experience of country living. I do accept that country living might not be the best base if you are looking for work in distant urban areas. I do sometimes think of cycling the nine miles to work but the route between the satellite town and my work has a steady flow of fast traffic with no hard shoulder on the road to hide in so it would be a suicide run. Back to the job searcher going for interview scenario, there are options, presumably the interviews aren't that frequent and in some cases non-existant so why not book a taxi for that rare interview scanario? Will still be a heap cheaper than cost of running a car. Lets get real here, it is quite likely that peoole are running the car(s)for convenience sake and not out of necessity in most examples. Now I know there can be exceptions to everything but I'm talking about a general scenario here. The communities of the future post the era of cheap and easy fossil fuels is predicted to be one of urban communities ( towns.villages.cities) where energy costs are lower by economies of scale. We are on a drunken binge of energy consumption at the moment and there will be a heck of a hangover when it ends- but I guess thats a whole different thread?

blossom180

kbannon wrote: »

Make people do community service for it!

dont know what the rate of unemployment was in the 1960s but anyone on the dole long term had to work 6 weeks per year or their dole was cut.if it was cutting grass or building walls what ever it was done.

To The North

kbannon wrote: »

Make people do community service for it!

this is one of the most positive ideas i've heard in a long time

Thinkingaboutit

RealityCheck wrote: »

Maybe if we had full unemployment.

But we dont. There are no jobs and no prospect of jobs.

And most on the dole would have five or more years of A class stamps. If the ****heads in Dail Eireann cancelled dole they'd be swinging from lamp posts, perhaps. Well, if people weren't so passive.

Tawny

Yes, yes, cut the dole, do away with the dole.... they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population while they are at it.


It is christmas after all!

You can't do any kind of work at all whilst on the Dole. If you even try to do charity work, your dole is cut.


You're on the dole as a jobseeker. You can't raise money for Trocaire and be looking for work at the same time.


True story.

Rev. BlueJeans

While the welfare state is an unmitigated disaster, benefits can't be turned on and off like a tap.

Garlic could have done many things in the budget (like tackle the quangos, and inefficiency in local government), but one additional step he should have taken when cutting the levels for those of a certain age, was to cut it across the board, on a phased basis, and reinstate the levels for those who take up positions working within the community in order to earn their benefits.

I'd love to see employer subsidisation too, what I mean by that is if an employer can be subsidised by the state, to the tune of say, a hundred quid a week to keep someone on rather than let them go and claim the dole. However in this corrupt little craphole we live in, such a policy would only encourage rampant abuse, and would never work.

From reading the whinging on here from those on welfare who haven't taken a cut *in real terms*, I'm mindful of another culture that seems to be forming, that the state, ergo me and other taxpayers, are or should be liable for peoples mortgages and car loans.

Bollocks to that, those out of work of late have my utmost sympathy, but I have my own bills to pay. Why should we have to pay yours as well? Social housing is available, and the demands can and should be met as appropriate. Bankruptcy law and policy too, is something that is going to have to be tackled sooner rather than later, and in a manner that does not penalise those who genuinely cannot meet their repayments. Let the banks take the hit for once.